Worth taking a "W"?

[TexasSurgeon]

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Hey everyone, thanks in advance for the advice.

I just started my sophomore year with 15 hours of credit classes. Here's what they are:
Organic Chemistry 1- 3 hours
Organic chemistry workshop- 1 hour
Organic chemistry lab - 2 hours
Honors Engineering math (basically linear diff. eqns.)- 3 hours
Honors History from 1877 to Present- 3 hours
Calculus Physics 1- 3 hours.

Total hours: 15

However in addition to this, I also volunteer 3 hours/week and am also doing research on the side, which amounts to at least another 3-5 hours per week. My concern is that this year with all these heavy classes and these things, I feel like I won't be able to handle everything. As a result I haven't been doing so hot in exams and such, because I've just been flooded with homework from everything. Do you think it's worth dropping a class? If so, which class would you think? I'm a biomedical engineering major, and if I had to drop any class it would be honors engineering math. How would medical schools look at a drop like this? I know this question has been asked time and again on SDN. I'm taking a pretty rigorous course load. How would it look for them to see a drop from 15 to 12 hours? As a Texas resident, I'm looking to actually apply out of state.

Thanks!

 

[def1]

Every teacher, counselor, and advisor I have ever talked to have told me W's are big no nos. One teacher told me that a W on a transcript has been substituted with the word weak because you were to weak to complete the class and try to do better.

Id advise against it unless you were going to get an f or something

 

[Pattycake25]

Every teacher, counselor, and advisor I have ever talked to have told me W's are big no nos. One teacher told me that a W on a transcript has been substituted with the word weak because you were to weak to complete the class and try to do better.

Id advise against it unless you were going to get an f or something

Can't you just cut out the volunteering or (maybe) the research? You don't need to be doing everything all the time to get into medical school.

If not, an isolated "W" can be explained - you were overambitious, took on too much, and needed to dial back a bit. It doesn't make you shine, but explaining it as a mature response to human error will do a lot to offset the blemish. It's nowhere near a kiss of death. Just do not make a habit out of it - be more careful planning your schedule in the future. Budget time even more carefully as money.

 

[Koosalagoosagoo]

Every teacher, counselor, and advisor I have ever talked to have told me W's are big no nos. One teacher told me that a W on a transcript has been substituted with the word weak because you were to weak to complete the class and try to do better.

Id advise against it unless you were going to get an f or something

So because I got pneumonia for over a week and bombed a test and subsequently took a W I'm weak, seems legit bro..

 

[deleted303591]

Engineering Math, including honors, is pretty easy at my school, which is a Texas school that has workshops (like your school, wherever you go).

Honors and Engineering do not go very well together and I would not do it as a BME student. It can be very counterproductive and time consuming.

If you really want to do Honors, you should focus on taking less technical courses, such as liberal arts coursework required for engineering. Or, you maybe could do a Minor within the Honors college such as Medicine and Society that is reading-intensive. You will be set for the MCAT (as long as you work effectively) because you will have:

1. Pre-Reqs that are more difficult than other applicants, because you are an engineering major

2. Better problem solving skills as an engineering student.

3. Comprehensive Verbal Reasoning preparation through the small, honors college courses that are non-technical.

Also, quit volunteering for now. It is not helping you, even if you enjoy it. You are only a sophomore and you can find time over later on (such as during the winter break) to do some sort of volunteering you enjoy. You have too many commitments right now.

 

[quitethenovelty]

While it's good to take classes while you are enrolled in college, if you are considering dropping a class, maybe it is the better course of action. Volunteering is not only for the hours to put on the app, I think it is also part of a premed's life. It is the closest a premed can get to being a doctor, well, aside from being a paramedic or something, and if you think it is fun or worthwhile, then I'd say cut back on the extraneous classes - your coursework is quite impressive even without the honors engineering, and do serious work in other aspects of your life, like shadowing your future specialty, doing biomed research, getting published, et cetera. I don't suspect that the adcom will go head over heels because you took an honors class in some field, but they may do so if they see something that other applicants do not really have. And get those As.

 

[def1]

So because I got pneumonia for over a week and bombed a test and subsequently took a W I'm weak, seems legit bro..

That has nothing to do with the original post. Obviously, if you have a valid excuse its going to be justified, but the first thing they will notice is the W and they will think negatively about it. They might give you a chance to explain but unless you have a good reason then they are going to think you can't handle pressure or hard work.

 

[ShenanigansMD]

Every teacher, counselor, and advisor I have ever talked to have told me W's are big no nos. One teacher told me that a W on a transcript has been substituted with the word weak because you were to weak to complete the class and try to do better.

Id advise against it unless you were going to get an f or something

I'm calling shenanigans/troll here; dude no one cares about a W. In fact, you could substitute the W with the word win, as in a win for your GPA in an unexpectedly hectic schedule.

 

[Eiot]

you could substitute the W with the word win, as in a win for your GPA in an unexpectedly hectic schedule.

In that case I'm probably the biggest winner here.

 

[SolarLuminosity]

Hey everyone, thanks in advance for the advice.

I just started my sophomore year with 15 hours of credit classes. Here's what they are:
Organic Chemistry 1- 3 hours
Organic chemistry workshop- 1 hour
Organic chemistry lab - 2 hours
Honors Engineering math (basically linear diff. eqns.)- 3 hours
Honors History from 1877 to Present- 3 hours
Calculus Physics 1- 3 hours.

Total hours: 15

However in addition to this, I also volunteer 3 hours/week and am also doing research on the side, which amounts to at least another 3-5 hours per week. My concern is that this year with all these heavy classes and these things, I feel like I won't be able to handle everything. As a result I haven't been doing so hot in exams and such, because I've just been flooded with homework from everything. Do you think it's worth dropping a class? If so, which class would you think? I'm a biomedical engineering major, and if I had to drop any class it would be honors engineering math. How would medical schools look at a drop like this? I know this question has been asked time and again on SDN. I'm taking a pretty rigorous course load. How would it look for them to see a drop from 15 to 12 hours? As a Texas resident, I'm looking to actually apply out of state.

Thanks!

As others have said, you may want to reduce your extracurriculars. However, another option is that you could withdraw and then take the class again later. So if your school replaces that W with a grade (I believe many schools would do this), then this could be a good option.

 

[circulus vitios]

Every teacher, counselor, and advisor I have ever talked to have told me W's are big no nos. One teacher told me that a W on a transcript has been substituted with the word weak because you were to weak to complete the class and try to do better.

Id advise against it unless you were going to get an f or something

I've heard that a few Ws over a typical college career are inconsequential. Obviously, reactions to Ws depend upon who is reviewing your academic transcript and as such, trying to generalize a reaction is a waste of time. If you can't complete the class, take a W. A W probably looks better than a D or an F. Just don't make a habit of withdrawing from classes.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

Every teacher, counselor, and advisor I have ever talked to have told me W's are big no nos. One teacher told me that a W on a transcript has been substituted with the word weak because you were to weak to complete the class and try to do better.

Id advise against it unless you were going to get an f or something

That goes against everything I've ever heard about them, which is that one or two W's isn't a big deal (especially if you then later retake the class and do well). It's only when you develop a pattern of W's that it becomes a big problem. The exception is withdrawing from a pre-req or a "recommended" class; if you retake and do well I'd imagine med schools will look past it, but if you don't retake or do poorly on the retake then it's going to be a red flag. I had a friend who withdrew from biochemistry, for example, and said that came up at every interview he had (he also got waitlisted and eventually rejected at every place he applied, but he had bigger problems with his application than that single W so I doubt that was the reason for his lack of success).

 

[def1]

That goes against everything I've ever heard about them, which is that one or two W's isn't a big deal (especially if you then later retake the class and do well). It's only when you develop a pattern of W's that it becomes a big problem. The exception is withdrawing from a pre-req or a "recommended" class; if you retake and do well I'd imagine med schools will look past it, but if you don't retake or do poorly on the retake then it's going to be a red flag. I had a friend who withdrew from biochemistry, for example, and said that came up at every interview he had (he also got waitlisted and eventually rejected at every place he applied, but he had bigger problems with his application than that single W so I doubt that was the reason for his lack of success).

I mean this is just anecdotal evidence I heard from my professors and advisors. Texas is pretty strict about W's anyway tho. If you reach 6 W's you will not be allowed to drop anymore.

Obviously if I was going to get an F I'd prefer a W but I think both are bad. Unless you have a death/medical emergency or something to justify that W it makes you look like you quit when you can't handle the stress. Thats just my opinion tho, Im not a adcom so what do I know.

 

[deleted303591]

I mean this is just anecdotal evidence I heard from my professors and advisors. Texas is pretty strict about W's anyway tho. If you reach 6 W's you will not be allowed to drop anymore.

Obviously if I was going to get an F I'd prefer a W but I think both are bad. Unless you have a death/medical emergency or something to justify that W it makes you look like you quit when you can't handle the stress. Thats just my opinion tho, Im not a adcom so what do I know.

I agree.

However, the OP is overloaded with commitments.

Honors and Engineering do not go well together. Plus, a full course load, research, and weekly volunteering commitments, is enough to make your head spin.

Very few people would be able to maintain decent grades and excel in research based on what the OP described as his/her situation.

 

[def1]

I agree.

However, the OP is overloaded with commitments.

Honors and Engineering do not go well together. Plus, a full course load, research, and weekly volunteering commitments, is enough to make your head spin.

Very few people would be able to maintain decent grades and excel in research based on what the OP described as his/her situation.

Yea, if it was me I'd probably drop the volunteering and research for now.I think its easier to explain a lapse in extracurricular activities then a lapse in grades.

 

[Steeleer]

It depends. I have 2 Ws. First one was in math because I got in a week late after my credits finally transferred my first semester of my freshman year. Took it again and got an A. Second was over the last summer with organic chemistry. I got an 85 on my first test and was failing by no means what so ever (I saved this to show if asked), but had to drop lecture and only take lab due to my work schedule. College kids need money and I was commuting an hour every day. In organic again and got a 100 on my first test so that's a positive. Just be able to explain why you dropped the course, things happen. But do not make a habit of it. 2 Ws 4 years apart for actual reasons is better than a low gpa or pattern of Ws.

 

[skiing]

I'm calling shenanigans/troll here; dude no one cares about a W. In fact, you could substitute the W with the word win, as in a win for your GPA in an unexpectedly hectic schedule.

For what it's worth, I have 4 W's (including one prereq and one major class) and a junior year C+ on my transcript and have interviews at 5 of the 6 top 10 schools I've heard from and nobody at any of my interviews (3 so far) has even mentioned them.

But yeah, if you can drop volunteering that's probably easier to take a break from than getting a W.

 

[Plue00]

Every teacher, counselor, and advisor I have ever talked to have told me W's are big no nos. One teacher told me that a W on a transcript has been substituted with the word weak because you were to weak to complete the class and try to do better.

Id advise against it unless you were going to get an f or something

I should tell the adcom that came to visit my school that he was wrong when he said 1-2 Ws wont hurt you.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

I mean this is just anecdotal evidence I heard from my professors and advisors. Texas is pretty strict about W's anyway tho. If you reach 6 W's you will not be allowed to drop anymore.

Obviously if I was going to get an F I'd prefer a W but I think both are bad. Unless you have a death/medical emergency or something to justify that W it makes you look like you quit when you can't handle the stress. Thats just my opinion tho, Im not a adcom so what do I know.

Most schools have that 6 W's policy. It was put in place in part to keep students from trashing their academic record with excessive W's, and in part because schools got annoyed with some students having half of their transcripts made up of W grades.

As for a W showing you can't handle the stress of a class, that's not necessarily true. It could be the case, as you pointed out, that something happened during the semester that forced a student to take a lighter load. For example, maybe you got sick before a midterm that counted for a very large part of your grade, couldn't study, and bombed it as a result. Time to take a W! If you only have one or two W's, I'd imagine most schools will just assume something exceptional happened and leave it at that. Now if you have 4+ W's that's different, because now it's harder to believe that something legit happened each time that made you need to withdraw. This is especially true if there's a clear pattern to the W's, like you withdrew from the same class twice, or all your W's are in chemistry classes.

 

[TexasSurgeon]

Thanks for all the great advice, guys. I may drop the Honors Math class based on how I do on this second organic chemistry test.

The thing is, this math class is an honors course, and in order to advance into my major, I need to have taken this math class by the end of this year (honors or regular). My next question is, if I drop this honors class which I may not make an A in, and take the regular class next semester and make an A, would medical schools look down on the fact that I couldn't "handle" and honors class but was able to succeed in a regular class and make an A? I would take honors next semester if I could, but they do not offer this class as honors.


and yes, there were a few other issues associated with me dropping- grandfather had a relapse of cancer, so arrangements had to be made and the like. A few other things as well were involved.

 

[Doctor246853]

So because I got pneumonia for over a week and bombed a test and subsequently took a W I'm weak, seems legit bro..[/QUOTE]
This, I have a W ...or two too. There are reasons people take a W, not just "Oh this class is too hard". Life happens to people.

 

[487806]

Thanks for all the great advice, guys. I may drop the Honors Math class based on how I do on this second organic chemistry test.

The thing is, this math class is an honors course, and in order to advance into my major, I need to have taken this math class by the end of this year (honors or regular). My next question is, if I drop this honors class which I may not make an A in, and take the regular class next semester and make an A, would medical schools look down on the fact that I couldn't "handle" and honors class but was able to succeed in a regular class and make an A? I would take honors next semester if I could, but they do not offer this class as honors.

I don't believe medical schools would care you took honors or not. Honors designation is actually quite useless. Take the regular, ace it, and take harder courses and do well. You're good to go then. 👍

 

[TexasSurgeon]

So then, I would be having 2 semester with 12 hours each in them. Would taking only 12 hours look bad? I'm required to take 30 per year so I would have to take 2 summer classes.


lol I realize these may seem like dumb questions. We'll probably look at this 10 years from now and be laughing.

 

[Doctor246853]

So then, I would be having 2 semester with 12 hours each in them. Would taking only 12 hours look bad? I'm required to take 30 per year so I would have to take 2 summer classes.


lol I realize these may seem like dumb questions. We'll probably look at this 10 seconds from now and be laughing.

Fixed.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

In that case I'm probably the biggest winner here.

Just another reason to take the "W" lol.😉

 

[Sesom]

I'm calling shenanigans/troll here; dude no one cares about a W. In fact, you could substitute the W with the word win, as in a win for your GPA in an unexpectedly hectic schedule.

🙂

 

[La Presse]

DROP the classes that you are going to potentially fail.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

DROP the classes that you are going to potentially fail.

I don't see why someone in this position wouldn't.

 

[La Presse]

I don't see why someone in this position wouldn't.

Unless you love Fs and making it harder for yourself to get into medical school.

 

[TexasSurgeon]

Would 2 consecutive semesters of 12 hours look bad on a transcript then?

 

[911 Turbo]

Didn't LizzyM say that a few Ws don't matter?

 

[La Presse]

Would 2 consecutive semesters of 12 hours look bad on a transcript then?

Ummm...why should it?


Sent from my iPad using SDN Mobile app.

 

[LizzyM]

Would 2 consecutive semesters of 12 hours look bad on a transcript then?

You do need to show that you can do well with a heavy course load and 24 credits in an academic year won't achieve that goal.

A W is okay. Two separated by some time is not bad. An entire semester of W's related to a catastrophic event (think ICU stay or natural disaster resulting in the loss of your home) is explanable. Everything else starts to look weak.

 

[TexasSurgeon]

Thanks a lot LizzyM, next semester I'm planning on taking Orgo 2, Orgo 2 lab, Orgo 2 workshop (if it's offered), US History to 1877, Engineering math, and Intro. to Theater. Does that sound like a good combination? It would be approximately 15 hours, so 15 next semester + 12 this semester = 27.

LizzyM- I would also be taking summer classes- either 3 hours or 6, depending on what needs to be completed.