Would a Ph.D. in school psychology allow me to practice only in this field?

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bburley22

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I recently graduated with a bachelor's degree in chemistry and began teaching high school. However, I have really always wanted to do something in the area of psychology, and I have been particularly focusing on the school psychology programs. The state I live in requires an Ed.S. degree in school psychology or a Ph.D. in school psychology. I have been reading numerous differences comparing the two degrees, and see that having a Ph.D. will allow me to work in a school, academic, or private practice setting. In contrast, the Ed.S. degree will only allow me to work in a school setting.

My question is: If I earn a Ph.D. degree in school psychology will I be able to work in other areas outside of school psychology? For example, could I be a clinical psychologist (or other type of psychologist) with this degree?

I really would like to have a degree that would allow me flexibility in job choices when I graduate so I am leaning towards the Ph.D. over the Ed.S. Any advice or suggestions is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

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I don't know all the ins and outs of the school psych PhD, but I do know it will not train you to be a clinical psychologist. The training and licenseure are different. There are a few counseling psychologists out there in private psychotherapy practice with Ed.D's but their training is in counseling psych and not school psych. I'm sure that there are school psychs in private practice in other ways, but it isn't psychotherapy.

What do you think you want to do with your degree? Why school psych? Flexibility can be great, but you still need to think about what you'd like to do at this point so you can go in the right direction. Also, if I were you I would look at the job market for school psychologists. I have not researched this, but I can tell you based on my recent attempts to collaborate with school psychologists in schools that they are spread extremely thin, which means districts are only hiring a handful of folks.

A good place to start would be setting up an appt with someone in the school psych dept of your undergrad and talking to them about the program, what graduates do, etc. If you have moved away, perhaps you have a local university with this degree?

Best,
Dr. E
 
As Dr. Eliza mentioned, a school psych Ph.D. would not train you to be a clinical psychologist, no. However, if your desire is to work in a setting other than a school, it's definitely possible. There are school psychologists with Ph.D.'s working in hospitals and the like, but they had to make efforts while in grad school to obtain training adequate to make them competent to practice in these settings. In particular, you'll want to pursue practica in these places when in grad school, and will need to complete a one-year predoctoral internship in clinical psychology (which, to the best of my knowledge, is not typically required in school psych programs). In order to be competitive for that internship spot, you're going to need to have a training record similar to the clinical and counseling folks you'll be competing against.

Thus, you can practice in a variety of areas with the degree if you take it upon yourself to obtain adequate training. You won't technically be a clinical psychologist, as your degree will be in school psych, but you might be able to complete many of the same professional tasks.
 
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There are a few counseling psychologists out there in private psychotherapy practice with Ed.D's but their training is in counseling psych and not school psych. I'm sure that there are school psychs in private practice in other ways, but it isn't psychotherapy.

Keep in mind that the Ed.D. and Ed.S. are two distinct and different credentials. The Ed.D. is a doctorate that allows licensure as a psychologist, but the Ed.S. is a credential for a masters-level school psychology specialist that does not allow licensure as a psychologist. Just want to make that clear.
 
There are many school psychology Ph.D. programs (i.e., the program I am in) that provide you with training that is similar to that provided by child clinical programs, while also providing a solid foundation in psychoeducational assessment and Response to Intervention. And AA is right, you will have to seek out practicum training in hospitals, community mental health centers, etc., to be competitive for internship outside of the school setting, but that may not be hard to do (depending on your program). Feel free to PM me if you'd like.
 
Do some searches on SDN - I have seen this question asked a TON of times. Here is one example of a related thread,
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=915585

There are very few ED.D programs in existence, in school psychology or any other speciality area (the Ed.D used to frequently be offered by both counseling and school psychology, but rarely are offered by either nowadays). You can do a masters/EDS program in school psychology or a doctoral program (generally a PhD, but also some programs award a PSYD and a very select few still award a EdD).

You can get licensed to become a psychologist, by completing a doctoral degree in either clinical, counseling, or school psychology.

With proper training in your doctoral program, practicum, and internship, you can work in settings outside of schools (for example, I completed my pre-doct internship at a psychiatric hospital this past year, working with both children and adults, and will be completing post-doc fellowship at a R-1 research/clinical position (which predominantly prepares future clinical psychologists). I preferred school psych over clinical myself, because it provides a very strong background to work with chlidren/adolescents. However, I have had to acquire all sorts of supplemental training in areas not offered through my doctoral program (completing a few clinical psych courses, such as an advanced personality assessment course for training on Rorchacht/MMPI, etc., outside practicum well beyond what my training program required, etc.). In addition, I also like very much having the fall back option to work in the schools :) . These positions generally offer stable work and some nice perks (e.g. a STARTING salary with phd in the 50,000s - 60000s, full benefits, summers off/190 day contract, etc.).

About 1/2 of school psychs with phds work in the schools. The other half work in a variety of different settings, including hospitals, faculty/academia/research, private practice, etc.

Here is a 2004 article on the trends/demographics of professional practices for school psychologists. An update was published in April/May of 2012, but is not yet (to my knowledge) available for free online.
http://www.nasponline.org/publications/spr/pdf/spr331curtis.pdf

Here is a good background book on school psychology, if you are interested in learning more about the field in general:
http://www.amazon.com/School-Psychology-Century-Second-Edition/dp/1609187520

Good luck!
 
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I don't know all the ins and outs of the school psych PhD, but I do know it will not train you to be a clinical psychologist. The training and licenseure are different.

Aagman already covered this in greater detail, but just to make it clear, this isn't quite true. The licensure for a PhD level school psychologist is exactly the same as for a PhD level clinical psychologist. If you were talking about specialist level degrees, that would be different, but the OP was clearly asking about PhD programs.

As for the training, it is definitely different, but it does still adhere to APA standards for required training for clinical practice (assuming you go to an APA school).
 
Aagman already covered this in greater detail, but just to make it clear, this isn't quite true. The licensure for a PhD level school psychologist is exactly the same as for a PhD level clinical psychologist. If you were talking about specialist level degrees, that would be different, but the OP was clearly asking about PhD programs.

As for the training, it is definitely different, but it does still adhere to APA standards for required training for clinical practice (assuming you go to an APA school).

I guess this varies by state. In my state the school psychologist PhD license is differentiated from the clinical/counseling PhD license. Both are regulated by the same board, but if you look up a school psychologist licensee, their license is differentiated by an "S" after it.

ETA: both licenses require the EPPP and the same oral exam though.


Dr. E
 
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I'm pretty sure that's unusual, but you make the good point that it is important to consider state. There is even one state where school pscyhologist PhD students cannot be licensed to practice.

I guess this varies by state. In my state the school psychologist PhD license is differentiated from the clinical/counseling PhD license. Both are regulated by the same board, but if you look up a school psychologist licensee, their license is differentiated by an "S" after it.

ETA: both licenses require the EPPP and the same oral exam though.


Dr. E
 
Yeah, I believe I have heard Texas has such laws. Is that correct? However, my understanding is that a school psychologist can still be licensed for private practice in Texas. Am I correct in that regards? THanks!
 
I believe that's correct, although I'm not sure about private practice.

Yeah, I believe I have heard Texas has such laws. Is that correct? However, my understanding is that a school psychologist can still be licensed for private practice in Texas. Am I correct in that regards? THanks!
 
There are a handful of training programs that specifically train both clinical + school training; IIRC they are mostly/exclusively in the northeast. This has been discussed before, so a search will turn up those programs.

In general, if you want to practice as a school psychologist...then attend a school psychology program; the same for clinical/counseling psychology. There is so much to learn in each area, it is hard to be good at both without a significant amount of additional training. Some states allow for practice/licensure in both, but it is very state dependent, and the training requirements can be quite specific in some cases. Given that clinical psychology is a doctoral-level title*, a Psy.D/Ph.D./Ed.D. will be required.

*There are at least 2 states (Michigan & Kansas) where you can be licensed at the non-doctoral level and practice (with supervision) as a "psychologist", but it is a bit of a misnomer because supervision is required. I personally think this should not be allowed because it is confusing to the general public, but that is a discussion for another day.
 
As someone has already pointed out, professionals with a doctoral degree in school/counseling/clinical psychology may become licensed as psychologists. Licensing requirements do vary from state-to-state with many states requiring completion of doctoral work at an APA accredited school, completion of an APA accredited internship, passing the EPPP (and state-specific tests, sometimes) as well as completion of a post-doc (again, I know that states vary somewhat). In most states, when you've jumped all these harrowing hoops, you're a "licensed psychologist".

The tricky thing with school psychology is that many, even those with doctoral degrees, don't become licensed as psychologists; rather then are credentialed by the state board of education, or in some cases licensed through the psychology board (with indication that the license is specific to school psychology and not a licensed psychologist). The reason this happens is that it is not a requirement for school psychologists to be licensed psychologists; they are required to be appropriately credentialed to work as school psychologists. Interestingly, being a licensed psychologist does not qualify someone to work in the school setting-- they would still have to get the appropriate credentials as a school psychologist to practice in a school setting.

School psychology is a master's-dominated field; as another poster pointed out, only about half of those with doctoral degrees in school psychology actually work in school settings-- it's just not necessary to have the doctoral degree in most cases, unless you want to run something (i.e., special ed department, psych services, etc.), though there is a preference for doctoral level, if a district can afford it. In some ways, use of the term "school psychologist" is somewhat misleading because of the fact that most school psychologists are master's level clinicians (who are well-trained to provide testing services and counseling services specific to educational settings and within parameters of school-based/special education law, etc.). This is a debate that has raged in the school psychology world for years. Outside of school psych, the term psychologist is reserved only for doctoral level practitioners, and many doctoral level school psychologists agree with this-- but master's level clinicians generally do not. But as this thread points out, it really creates a lot of confusion for people who are school psych.

Being a master's level school psychologist is a good gig. The work is fun, the pay is good, the hours are great; it can be challenging and exciting, and very rewarding to be a part of the school community and a specialist in that community. In most states, however, being credentialed as a "school psychologist" (master's level) is going to allow you only to practice in school settings. Master's level school psychology trains specialists to do a specific school-based job. The job prospects are generally very good, also.

There are some doctoral level school psychology programs that essentially are master's programs with a dissertation (or some "similar" project) tacked on at the end. However, there are many doctoral level school psychology programs that train people to be viable as a licensed psychologist in various settings. If you are going to go to a doctoral program in school psychology, you should take a look at (or ask about) things like this: where do graduates work: only school settings? Or is there variation? What type of practica are available? Programs in or near major cities will offer much more varied practica sites. Are their faculty licensed psychologists (not just credentialed school psychologists)? Do they align equally (or more heavily) with the APA than the NASP? Does their coursework allow for a breadth of training, including in psychotherapeutic techniques, psychopharmacology, evidence-based practice, etc.? What are the options for tailoring your program (i.e., adding coursework of particular interest to you)? Where do their interns match? Do they even encourage their interns to go through the APPIC match (some school psych programs don't, but the good ones will require it)? By the way, there are some absolutely fabulous school-based APA accredited internship sites across the country, and clinical and counseling psych applicants try to get into these too. They're not typically as competitive as other types of sites but some are quite good. Make sure the program is APA accredited-- it is a huge limitation to end up graduating from a non-accredited program (e.g., much less likely to match, may not get licensed). Note that only doctoral programs are APA accredited; master's level programs in school psychology should be NASP approved. If it's not NASP approved, I'd steer clear. This can also prevent you from getting credentialed in some states, or at least make it a whole lot more difficult.

My master's degree is in school psych; I got my state credential (and national credential) and practiced in public schools. I loved it. But I wanted to be able to have more flexibility in terms of settings. I chose a school psychology PhD program in a major city near a major medical center, and I did all my practica in the hospital setting. I worked on national, clinical research grants; did some publishing; made sure to present at state, national, and international conferences throughout my time there. When it came time for internship, I matched to my top choice site-- which by the way is not school-based but is a clinical setting, where all the other interns are from clinical psych programs. My post-doctoral fellowship is in a clinical setting, and I have been approached regarding job prospects and offers ranging from academic to clinical to government positions. My program is top-notch, but I researched it carefully and chose it wisely. I also decided from the start what type of experience I wanted to have, built an area of expertise purposefully, and I am thankful on a daily basis to have not only the knowledge/experience to become a licensed psychologist but also to have the context and perspective of a school psychologist.

So I guess what I am saying is-- there are lots of things to consider in making your decision, and there is also some confusion about the field of school psych--- and rightly so, because in many ways school psychology has a hard time all getting on the same page together. I know many many outstanding and brilliant PhDs/PsyDs in clinical and counseling psychology who I respect. But I could not be any happier with the fact that my PhD is in school psychology.

Best luck to you on your decision. :)
 
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As someone has already pointed out, professionals with a doctoral degree in school/counseling/clinical psychology may become licensed as psychologists. Licensing requirements do vary from state-to-state with many states requiring completion of doctoral work at an APA accredited school, completion of an APA accredited internship, passing the EPPP (and state-specific tests, sometimes) as well as completion of a post-doc (again, I know that states vary somewhat). In most states, when you've jumped all these harrowing hoops, you're a "licensed psychologist".

The tricky thing with school psychology is that many, even those with doctoral degrees, don't become licensed as psychologists; rather then are credentialed by the state board of education, or in some cases licensed through the psychology board (with indication that the license is specific to school psychology and not a licensed psychologist). The reason this happens is that it is not a requirement for school psychologists to be licensed psychologists; they are required to be appropriately credentialed to work as school psychologists. Interestingly, being a licensed psychologist does not qualify someone to work in the school setting-- they would still have to get the appropriate credentials as a school psychologist to practice in a school setting.

School psychology is a master's-dominated field; as another poster pointed out, only about half of those with doctoral degrees in school psychology actually work in school settings-- it's just not necessary to have the doctoral degree in most cases, unless you want to run something (i.e., special ed department, psych services, etc.), though there is a preference for doctoral level, if a district can afford it. In some ways, use of the term "school psychologist" is somewhat misleading because of the fact that most school psychologists are master's level clinicians (who are well-trained to provide testing services and counseling services specific to educational settings and within parameters of school-based/special education law, etc.). This is a debate that has raged in the school psychology world for years. Outside of school psych, the term psychologist is reserved only for doctoral level practitioners, and many doctoral level school psychologists agree with this-- but master's level clinicians generally do not. But as this thread points out, it really creates a lot of confusion for people who are school psych.

Being a master's level school psychologist is a good gig. The work is fun, the pay is good, the hours are great; it can be challenging and exciting, and very rewarding to be a part of the school community and a specialist in that community. In most states, however, being credentialed as a "school psychologist" (master's level) is going to allow you only to practice in school settings. Master's level school psychology trains specialists to do a specific school-based job. The job prospects are generally very good, also.

There are some doctoral level school psychology programs that essentially are master's programs with a dissertation (or some "similar" project) tacked on at the end. However, there are many doctoral level school psychology programs that train people to be viable as a licensed psychologist in various settings. If you are going to go to a doctoral program in school psychology, you should take a look at (or ask about) things like this: where do graduates work: only school settings? Or is there variation? What type of practica are available? Programs in or near major cities will offer much more varied practica sites. Are their faculty licensed psychologists (not just credentialed school psychologists)? Do they align equally (or more heavily) with the APA than the NASP? Does their coursework allow for a breadth of training, including in psychotherapeutic techniques, psychopharmacology, evidence-based practice, etc.? What are the options for tailoring your program (i.e., adding coursework of particular interest to you)? Where do their interns match? Do they even encourage their interns to go through the APPIC match (some school psych programs don't, but the good ones will require it)? By the way, there are some absolutely fabulous school-based APA accredited internship sites across the country, and clinical and counseling psych applicants try to get into these too. They're not typically as competitive as other types of sites but some are quite good. Make sure the program is APA accredited-- it is a huge limitation to end up graduating from a non-accredited program (e.g., much less likely to match, may not get licensed). Note that only doctoral programs are APA accredited; master's level programs in school psychology should be NASP approved. If it's not NASP approved, I'd steer clear. This can also prevent you from getting credentialed in some states, or at least make it a whole lot more difficult.

My master's degree is in school psych; I got my state credential (and national credential) and practiced in public schools. I loved it. But I wanted to be able to have more flexibility in terms of settings. I chose a school psychology PhD program in a major city near a major medical center, and I did all my practica in the hospital setting. I worked on national, clinical research grants; did some publishing; made sure to present at state, national, and international conferences throughout my time there. When it came time for internship, I matched to my top choice site-- which by the way is not school-based but is a clinical setting, where all the other interns are from clinical psych programs. My post-doctoral fellowship is in a clinical setting, and I have been approached regarding job prospects and offers ranging from academic to clinical to government positions. My program is top-notch, but I researched it carefully and chose it wisely. I also decided from the start what type of experience I wanted to have, built an area of expertise purposefully, and I am thankful on a daily basis to have not only the knowledge/experience to become a licensed psychologist but also to have the context and perspective of a school psychologist.

So I guess what I am saying is-- there are lots of things to consider in making your decision, and there is also some confusion about the field of school psych--- and rightly so, because in many ways school psychology has a hard time all getting on the same page together. I know many many outstanding and brilliant PhDs/PsyDs in clinical and counseling psychology who I respect. But I could not be any happier with the fact that my PhD is in school psychology.

Best luck to you on your decision. :)
 
A good post, but I will make a few comments. First off are you sure that there are states that require an APA internship for licensure? I was under the impression from discussion on this forum that this is not true. I know that states often require an "equivelent" but that's not quite the same thing.

I also disagree that a "good" school psych program will require APA internship. If you look at the stats, very few school psych doctoral students do APA internships. Most schools send very few doctoral students to APA match. Of the ones that send more, the match rate is usually abysmally low. There are very rare exceptions, I believe that Aagman goes to one, and it sounds like you do as well. But I'd strongly disagree that these are the only good doctoral programs. 50% of doctoral school pysch students work in schools, while most of the rest work in academic instutitions teaching school psychologists,or agencies that serve schools. Interning as a school psychologist is still the best way to prepare yourself for all of these career paths.

Anyway just wanted to make those 2 points, overall still a very good post.

As someone has already pointed out, professionals with a doctoral degree in school/counseling/clinical psychology may become licensed as psychologists. Licensing requirements do vary from state-to-state with many states requiring completion of doctoral work at an APA accredited school, completion of an APA accredited internship, passing the EPPP (and state-specific tests, sometimes) as well as completion of a post-doc (again, I know that states vary somewhat). In most states, when you've jumped all these harrowing hoops, you're a "licensed psychologist".

The tricky thing with school psychology is that many, even those with doctoral degrees, don't become licensed as psychologists; rather then are credentialed by the state board of education, or in some cases licensed through the psychology board (with indication that the license is specific to school psychology and not a licensed psychologist). The reason this happens is that it is not a requirement for school psychologists to be licensed psychologists; they are required to be appropriately credentialed to work as school psychologists. Interestingly, being a licensed psychologist does not qualify someone to work in the school setting-- they would still have to get the appropriate credentials as a school psychologist to practice in a school setting.

School psychology is a master's-dominated field; as another poster pointed out, only about half of those with doctoral degrees in school psychology actually work in school settings-- it's just not necessary to have the doctoral degree in most cases, unless you want to run something (i.e., special ed department, psych services, etc.), though there is a preference for doctoral level, if a district can afford it. In some ways, use of the term "school psychologist" is somewhat misleading because of the fact that most school psychologists are master's level clinicians (who are well-trained to provide testing services and counseling services specific to educational settings and within parameters of school-based/special education law, etc.). This is a debate that has raged in the school psychology world for years. Outside of school psych, the term psychologist is reserved only for doctoral level practitioners, and many doctoral level school psychologists agree with this-- but master's level clinicians generally do not. But as this thread points out, it really creates a lot of confusion for people who are school psych.

Being a master's level school psychologist is a good gig. The work is fun, the pay is good, the hours are great; it can be challenging and exciting, and very rewarding to be a part of the school community and a specialist in that community. In most states, however, being credentialed as a "school psychologist" (master's level) is going to allow you only to practice in school settings. Master's level school psychology trains specialists to do a specific school-based job. The job prospects are generally very good, also.

There are some doctoral level school psychology programs that essentially are master's programs with a dissertation (or some "similar" project) tacked on at the end. However, there are many doctoral level school psychology programs that train people to be viable as a licensed psychologist in various settings. If you are going to go to a doctoral program in school psychology, you should take a look at (or ask about) things like this: where do graduates work: only school settings? Or is there variation? What type of practica are available? Programs in or near major cities will offer much more varied practica sites. Are their faculty licensed psychologists (not just credentialed school psychologists)? Do they align equally (or more heavily) with the APA than the NASP? Does their coursework allow for a breadth of training, including in psychotherapeutic techniques, psychopharmacology, evidence-based practice, etc.? What are the options for tailoring your program (i.e., adding coursework of particular interest to you)? Where do their interns match? Do they even encourage their interns to go through the APPIC match (some school psych programs don't, but the good ones will require it)? By the way, there are some absolutely fabulous school-based APA accredited internship sites across the country, and clinical and counseling psych applicants try to get into these too. They're not typically as competitive as other types of sites but some are quite good. Make sure the program is APA accredited-- it is a huge limitation to end up graduating from a non-accredited program (e.g., much less likely to match, may not get licensed). Note that only doctoral programs are APA accredited; master's level programs in school psychology should be NASP approved. If it's not NASP approved, I'd steer clear. This can also prevent you from getting credentialed in some states, or at least make it a whole lot more difficult.

My master's degree is in school psych; I got my state credential (and national credential) and practiced in public schools. I loved it. But I wanted to be able to have more flexibility in terms of settings. I chose a school psychology PhD program in a major city near a major medical center, and I did all my practica in the hospital setting. I worked on national, clinical research grants; did some publishing; made sure to present at state, national, and international conferences throughout my time there. When it came time for internship, I matched to my top choice site-- which by the way is not school-based but is a clinical setting, where all the other interns are from clinical psych programs. My post-doctoral fellowship is in a clinical setting, and I have been approached regarding job prospects and offers ranging from academic to clinical to government positions. My program is top-notch, but I researched it carefully and chose it wisely. I also decided from the start what type of experience I wanted to have, built an area of expertise purposefully, and I am thankful on a daily basis to have not only the knowledge/experience to become a licensed psychologist but also to have the context and perspective of a school psychologist.

So I guess what I am saying is-- there are lots of things to consider in making your decision, and there is also some confusion about the field of school psych--- and rightly so, because in many ways school psychology has a hard time all getting on the same page together. I know many many outstanding and brilliant PhDs/PsyDs in clinical and counseling psychology who I respect. But I could not be any happier with the fact that my PhD is in school psychology.

Best luck to you on your decision. :)
 
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A good post, but I will make a few comments. First off are you sure that there are states that require an APA internship for licensure? I was under the impression from discussion on this forum that this is not true. I know that states often require an "equivelent" but that's not quite the same thing.

I also disagree that a "good" school psych program will require APA internship. If you look at the stats, very few school psych doctoral students do APA internships. Most schools send very few doctoral students to APA match. Of the ones that send more, the match rate is usually abysmally low. There are very rare exceptions, I believe that Aagman goes to one, and it sounds like you do as well. But I'd strongly disagree that these are the only good doctoral programs. 50% of doctoral school pysch students work in schools, while most of the rest work in academic instutitions teaching school psychologists,or agencies that serve schools. Interning as a school psychologist is still the best way to prepare yourself for these career paths.

I agree that gc0305's post as a whole is excellent. Re: APA internships, as you've mentioned, very few (if any) states that I know of require an actual APA-accredited internship...although the APA is currently pushing to make this a national training standard. However, to do so, they're surely going to have to actually seriously address the imbalance.

In general, if the internship isn't APA/APPIC-accredited, the burden of proof falls to the student, and he/she must document the "or equivalent" portion to the state psych board's satisfaction, which is just another series of (potentially difficult) hoops to jump through.

However, APA internships are required by certain employers and postdocs, such as the VA and federal Board of Prisons. If a school psych student/trainee is seriously considering working in a non-school setting (and particularly if that setting includes medical centers), then I personally would strongly recommend they obtain an APA-, or at least APPIC-accredited, internship. Reason being that odds are the people you'll be competing against for that spot will likely have completed such an internship, and will be coming from the more "traditional" (for that setting) clinical/counseling background.
 
In many states they actually make seperate allowances for doing your internship at an exempt facility, such as a school. This actually makes it very easy to get licensed if you do your internship there, much easier then, say, a non APA hospital internship. On the flip side, I believe that states do exist (Nevada?) where you can't get licensed at all if you intern at a school. So as always, it's good to be aware of the rules of the state you plan to practice in.

But yeah I'm not saying an APA internship is a bad thing in school psych. If you know you want to work in a medical facility, then you should definitely do one. Although really if you know you want to work at a medical facility, you should go into clinical psych, not school psych. But sometimes you don't know for sure what you want to do when your first applying to programs. I believe some stats we looked at early suggested that only a very small amount of school psych PhDs work in hospitals and the like, I think it was somewhere around 1%. There are a lot of factors which can discourage that, not the least of which being that's it can be an uphill battle for school psychologists to work there, and one that often results in longer hours and lower pay then they would make in a school.

I agree that gc0305's post as a whole is excellent. Re: APA internships, as you've mentioned, very few (if any) states that I know of require an actual APA-accredited internship...although the APA is currently pushing to make this a national training standard. However, to do so, they're surely going to have to actually seriously address the imbalance.

In general, if the internship isn't APA/APPIC-accredited, the burden of proof falls to the student, and he/she must document the "or equivalent" portion to the state psych board's satisfaction, which is just another series of (potentially difficult) hoops to jump through.

However, APA internships are required by certain employers and postdocs, such as the VA and federal Board of Prisons. If a school psych student/trainee is seriously considering working in a non-school setting (and particularly if that setting includes medical centers), then I personally would strongly recommend they obtain an APA-, or at least APPIC-accredited, internship. Reason being that odds are the people you'll be competing against for that spot will likely have completed such an internship, and will be coming from the more "traditional" (for that setting) clinical/counseling background.
 
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I'm new to this board -- mostly came to join the 2013 APPIC thread! :-/ I thought I'd throw in my few cents about the match rates... I don't think the prospects for school psych Ph.D.s are quite that low. If I'm interpreting Question 2 of the following data correctly:

http://www.appic.org/Match/MatchStatistics/ApplicantSurvey2011Part2.aspx

... the match rate in 2011 was identical for SP as for clinical applicants (79%), at least among the 65% of applicants who completed the survey. You can also check out the match rates by program, which includes SP programs:

http://www.appic.org/Portals/0/downloads/APPIC_Match_Rates_2000-10_by_Univ.pdf

The thing is that SP programs rarely require APPIC internships. Mine doesn't, and I'd say over the past few years, about 1/3 of students take non-APPIC school based internships. It's higher in many other programs. We had a 100% match rate for several years until this year, with about 4 or 5 students per year. The people this year who didn't match mostly ranked clinical sites, while the people who did all matched at school sites. We have had a few people successfully match to non-school sites, though, especially hospitals.

That's really important to note: there are a few (less than 10, I believe) APA-accredited sites that ONLY accept school psych applicants, or at least strongly prefer them. Some of these include the Nebraska Consortium sites, Illinois Consortium, Virginia Beach Schools, Sarah Reed, and several in Texas. Because these are APA-accredited sites, they meet licensure standards in most (all?) states for independent practice as a psychologist. They often include work in non-school settings as well. The two consortia in particular take a lot of students, so I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of SP interns in APA-accredited sites are at these sites.
 
It's not that match rates are low. My school also has a 100% match rate most years. It's that the vast majority of people don't even try to match. If you check your link, you will note that there are only 123 people who even entered the match program. I think this is generally a good thing, most school psychs don't benefit from a APA internship so they don't apply, but the ones who do want one can get one.

When mentioning low match rates, I was talking specifically about programs that send everyone to APA match every year. You will often see match rates in the 50% range there, particularly for combined clinical/school programs. You can see more detailed information on this if you look up APA match rate by school.
 
Ah, I understand. I think you're right, too--if I was intent on only working in the schools, or even on an academic position, I don't think I would put myself through this kind of stress!! There is the feeling among my classmates, though, that if you're going to spend the extra effort to get the Ph.D., you may as well try and keep your career options as open as possible by going the APPIC route. I just hope this all works out. :)
 
My understanding is that - more and more - if you go the academic route, you want an APA internship. I would think that having a school-based APA internship (e.g. Illinois Consortium, Virginia Beach) would be the way to go, as one would be specializing in the schools still and completing an APA internship. But, for many phd school psych students - those 50% who plan to work in the schools - an APA internship isn't necessary ----I guess I just do not fully understand why someone in school psych would even complete a phd if they are planning to solely work in the schools. Why put oneself through all the rigors and time/financial hits that go with the phd, when you could complete a MA/EDS in half the time and make essentially the same salary???
 
For the academic route in school psychology, school based experience appears to be much more important then a APA internship. Of course, a school based APA internship would be perfect in this case, but there are only a very small number of those, compared to the number of doctoral level school psychologists. So this route is not going to be available to most people, especially if they have a target location that they want to start building contacts in.

As for why you would get a doctorate in school psych if you are planning to work in a school, it would be just as fair to ask why you would get a doctorate in school psychology if you aren't planning to work in a school. But the answer to both is the same: many don't know what path they want to take when they start, and want to keep their options open. Plus just because someone makes working in a school their primary focus, doesn't mean that they have no interest in expanding to private practice or other areas in the future. While it's true that 50% of doctoral level school psychologists work outside the school, only a tiny percentage (1%?) of them actually work in hospitals or medical facilities.

My understanding is that - more and more - if you go the academic route, you want an APA internship. I would think that having a school-based APA internship (e.g. Illinois Consortium, Virginia Beach) would be the way to go, as one would be specializing in the schools still and completing an APA internship. But, for many phd school psych students - those 50% who plan to work in the schools - an APA internship isn't necessary ----I guess I just do not fully understand why someone in school psych would even complete a phd if they are planning to solely work in the schools. Why put oneself through all the rigors and time/financial hits that go with the phd, when you could complete a MA/EDS in half the time and make essentially the same salary???
 
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For the academic route in school psychology, school based experience appears to be much more important then a APA internship. Of course, a school based APA internship would be perfect in this case, but there are only a very small number of those, compared to the number of doctoral level school psychologists. So this route is not going to be available to most people, especially if they have a target location that they want to start building contacts in.

Huh. The DCT in my old School Psychology PhD program sends out frequent notices of open faculty positions and most of the ads note requiring or strongly preferring an APA accredited internship, although I think this is more the case for larger universities and those offering a PhD/PsyD in school psych (as opposed to a specialist degree).
 
Sounds like there must be some variation then. I've seen several notices searching for school psych professors, and they've always strongly emphasized the need for experience in the schools, but never made any mention of caring where the candidate did their internship. At least a few were definitely from larger universities offering PhDs. Maybe we are looking at different areas or different types of positions.

Huh. The DCT in my old School Psychology PhD program sends out frequent notices of open faculty positions and most of the ads note requiring or strongly preferring an APA accredited internship, although I think this is more the case for larger universities and those offering a PhD/PsyD in school psych (as opposed to a specialist degree).
 
My thoughts are that your both fairly correct :) I don't think an APA internship is "mandatory" as it is for a faculty position in clinical psych. But, I do think many programs, particularly R-1 programs with phd programs, do tend to have a preference for applicants who have completed an APA internship.

I think for smaller programs or more practitioner orientated programs, the experience in schools is weighted more heavily. In R-1 programs or programs with a strong push to to train future scholars/academians, a greater emphasis on research experience and research potential.
 
This is one of the websites I've used to judge what is in demand for school psych faculty positions.

http://www.higheredjobs.com/faculty/search.cfm?JobCat=227

Currently there are quite a few positions listed (and a few non school psych ones thrown in). Some places seem to be emphasizing school experience, and some research experience. A few seem to just want any warm body with a school psych degree. I haven't seen any mention of internship ever on that site.

It's probably just that places that want someone with an APA internship advertise elsewhere though. School psychologists with APA internships are a lot harder to come by, so universities that want one may advertise directly with the schools most likely to produce one, rather then on public sites.
 
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