Would I Accept?

[albany11]

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I am wondering about this: I talked to the owner dentist who is looking for associate.

This is the offer:
$250 per day (guaranteed) or 30% production (the owner says-
production will depend on you but you will do only hygiene checks( 2 hygyniests), filling,
extractions, emergency ( a lot) , molar endo
owner will do fixed work, cosmetics, dentures, endo anterior
right now gross is at $1.2 million

Do you think I should accept? what would be my net production ? Do you think it will be higher than $250?

 

[aphistis]

DentalTown would be a much better place to get the answers you're looking for.

 

[LestatZinnie]

I am wondering about this: I talked to the owner dentist who is looking for associate.

This is the offer:
$250 per day (guaranteed) or 30% production (the owner says-
production will depend on you but you will do only hygiene checks( 2 hygyniests), filling,
extractions, emergency ( a lot) , molar endo
owner will do fixed work, cosmetics, dentures, endo anterior
right now gross is at $1.2 million

Do you think I should accept? what would be my net production ? Do you think it will be higher than $250?

$250/day is frankly quite low. there are many threads on dentaltown with regards to associate salary issue, do a search there.

$250...even pharmacists make more than that, and they don't even have the astronomical debt that many dental students have!! this is sure worrisome at times. 😕

 

[TucsonDDS]

I wouldn't work for $250/day. If you work 5 days a week 52 weeks/year that is only $65,000 a year. After taxes you are at about 50k to live off of. With 100K of dept you will be struggling to say the least. We didn't all go into this profession to make millions but this offer is just rediculous. I am currently a nurse and make at the minimum $39/hr or a little over 460/day (12 hr shifts). I will be very depressed if I have to take 4 years out of my life for school, 100-200k student loans, lose contributing 30k/year to retirement, uproot my family and lose a 90k/year job all for a 30% paycut.

 

[Dr.SpongeBobDDS]

Owner keeps all fixed and the easy endo??!!! 😱 Sounds like he just wants someone to do the scutwork. I think I would renegotiate or find a better offer. There have to be more positions than that out there. Let us know what you decide.


Keep in mind though that most of us here are still in dental school. You will get a much more informed opinion over at www.dentaltown.com .

 

[delicious]

Owner keeps all fixed and the easy endo??!!! 😱 Sounds like he just wants someone to do the scutwork. I think I would renegotiate or find a better offer. There have to be more positions than that out there. Let us know what you decide.

Yeah, screw this jerk!! 😡 😡 😡 Trying to rip you off. Go give him a call tomorrow and say: minimum $500 a day or nuthin.

 

[delicious]

😡 😡 😡

 

[TaliaTN]

I'm a hygienist and I make $210 a day, I don't have production goals, and I get paid whether 2 or 9 patients show up! You should make at least $400 a day, I would think, but you should produce enough I would guess to make at least that with those simple procudures, if you or the front desk will keep your schedule full.

 

[Yah-E]

All of you have to keep in mind, not 100% of dental school graduates graduate and have a $150K practice waiting for them (unless it's your family's practice). Heck, most of associates (if you're so lucky to find a job) in general dentistry make very minimal their first year out.

The financial success of dentistry is mainly due to two things:

1) your ability to sell
2) your production speed

If and when you land an associates position/offer, again, in reality, you will do the scut work and crap that the owner dentist don't want to do. Why do you think they're looking for an associate in the first place? All those salary surveys you read about and misleading info about how much a dentist makes, it's usually true only AFTER you've worked for 5 years or so. They're not salary figures for first year out dental graduates!

My feeling about how much $$ I'll make, if I were to be general dentist is the following:

1 - 3 years out of school: $80K is considered very lucky and don't be surprised, if I land a $100K job, oh my god, I'm in heaven!

3 - 5 years out of school: I expect to make over 6 figures and if I don't, I then must evaluate my practice goals and production.

My best advise is, heck, if you can land a job, then go for it. If you get two job offers, then obviously take the better offer. If anything else, you'll gain practice experience! To me, $250/day ($60K/year) base salary isn't all that bad for first year out dental graduates. You want to make more, then "produce" more excellent dental work. If you "produce" more, then you'll make more. At least, you know you'll get $60K for sure!

Want to make lots of money first year out practicing, then specialize!

 

[ItsGavinC]

All of you have to keep in mind, not 100% of dental school graduates graduate and have a $150K practice waiting for them (unless it's your family's practice). Heck, most of associates (if you're so lucky to find a job) in general dentistry make very minimal their first year out.

Yes, but $400-500/day is the going rate for new graduates these days. The trend seems to be shifting towards that for the first month and then percentage of production after the first month, but $250/day is still low for a new grad.

 

[Yah-E]

Hey, don't get me wrong, if you can get a better offer, then by all means, take it. It just behooves me that most pre-dental students and even dental students have this fantasy that "as soon as I get that degree, I'll make 6-figures my first year out!" That's simply untrue for most.

Those amazing dental salary surveys are averages for dentist who have worked at least 5 years or more!

 

[delicious]

Hey, don't get me wrong, if you can get a better offer, then by all means, take it. It just behooves me that most pre-dental students and even dental students have this fantasy that "as soon as I get that degree, I'll make 6-figures my first year out!" That's simply untrue for most.

Those amazing dental salary surveys are averages for dentist who have worked at least 5 years or more!

Yah-E. I think that you'd be surprised at how many people make over 100 grand in their first years out. And I think that with your attitude, you ain't gonna be one of them.

It's not gonna come true if you don't think it will.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Yah-E. I think that you'd be surprised at how many people make over 100 grand in their first years out. And I think that with your attitude, you ain't gonna be one of them.

It's not gonna come true if you don't think it will.

There are two sides to this argument and both sides are correct. We can't ignore the overlap. The overlap being that not everybody makes six figures out of school, but some do. Most likely incomes will be in the 80-90k range.

My gripe is that estimate is still much higher than the 60k the OP was posting about. Trust me, when you are straight out 80k is light-years ahead of 60k (especially after taxes and loan repayment).

 

[delicious]

There are two sides to this argument and both sides are correct. We can't ignore the overlap. The overlap being that not everybody makes six figures out of school, but some do. Most likely incomes will be in the 80-90k range.

My gripe is that estimate is still much higher than the 60k the OP was posting about. Trust me, when you are straight out 80k is light-years ahead of 60k (especially after taxes and loan repayment).

Gavin, there are no two sides to this argument. I am correct. 😡 😡

 

[aileen]

Prostho and endo are where most of the income come from. If the owner is not letting you do bridges or crowns, you won't be able to produce much. Unless you like doing endo AND there's constant flow of patients (which I doubt), you won't benefit.

my 2 cents...

 

[Yah-E]

Yah-E. I think that you'd be surprised at how many people make over 100 grand in their first years out. And I think that with your attitude, you ain't gonna be one of them.

It's not gonna come true if you don't think it will.

No, I wouldn't be surprised because I know there are dental graduates that make over $100K right out of dental school. My point is that kind of salary is not as common as many of you think! My attitude? What attitude is that exactly? My attitude of reality? My attitude of being realistic? My attitude to correctly inform predents like yourselves? I already said, if I were to be a general dentist when I graduate and if I make only $60K because that is my only offer at the time, I would be content.

Bottom line, $60K or $80K, don't expect to make a whole lot when you graduate during your first year as an "Associate"! Gotta earn your keeps! The key word here is "EXPECT", expectations and dreams are simply way to high for many dental students!

Gavin, there are no two sides to this argument. I am correct.

My, my, my, listen to what this predent is full of? Why don't you get into a dental school first, pick a school, pass all of your classes, learn some dentistry, pass the boards, and then share an ounce your arrogance. In the mean time, I would suggest you listen more to upper classmen and take notes. You're not correct, you're not even close being correct?

 

[LestatZinnie]

No, I wouldn't be surprised because I know there are dental graduates that make over $100K right out of dental school. My point is that kind of salary is not as common as many of you think! My attitude? What attitude is that exactly? My attitude of reality? My attitude of being realistic? My attitude to correctly inform predents like yourselves? I already said, if I were to be a general dentist when I graduate and if I make only $60K because that is my only offer at the time, I would be content.

Bottom line, $60K or $80K, don't expect to make a whole lot when you graduate during your first year as an "Associate"! Gotta earn your keeps! The key word here is "EXPECT", expectations and dreams are simply way to high for many dental students!



My, my, my, listen to what this predent is full of? Why don't you get into a dental school first, pick a school, pass all of your classes, learn some dentistry, pass the boards, and then share an ounce your arrogance. In the mean time, I would suggest you listen more to upper classmen and take notes. You're not correct, you're not even close being correct?

Yah-E: I say let the predents keep on dreaming. They'll find out what reality is like eventually. maybe the hardway, but eventually they will. 🙂

 

[dmd]

Yah-E: I say let the predents keep on dreaming. They'll find out what reality is like eventually. maybe the hardway, but eventually they will. 🙂

Average for a graduate at BU they tell us $110K + Production (if you are lucky)....

 

[Gutta Percha]

Don't take this offer, tell him that you need a minimum of 400/day or 30% of production. Does the production include the hygiene exams, limiteds, xrays, etc. Ask to see the practice statistics on types and percentages of services provided. If he only wants to pay you 250/ day then you will be doing boring exams, fills, exts and difficult endo. He is trying to screw you at the price. Remember that owner dentists are businessman and will try to take advantage of you (not all of them but most which I learned from personal experience).

I would look for another job probably in a clinic or community health center.
Don't expect to make 100k the first year, but 75-90 is more realistic.

 

[LestatZinnie]

Average for a graduate at BU they tell us $110K + Production (if you are lucky)....

Lol...I'd rather believe what real-life dentists tell me than what dental schools tell you. How can BU justify the high tuition they charge if they don't have good numbers to show to the students? Ask your school to back up those numbers with published facts, so that you know they didnt get the 6 figure from the few BU graduates who just happen to hit the gold mine or have dentist parents to start with. (I'm assuming you're saying avg income is 110k, and then + production if you're lucky, rather than 110k if you're lucky, right?)

Head over to dentaltown. the advice/info you get there with regards to salary will be much more realistic than at SDN. Most dentists will also tell you schools will often overinflate earning potential, especially they're charging so much, as in case of BU.

 

[Biogirl361]

My, my, my, listen to what this predent is full of? Why don't you get into a dental school first, pick a school, pass all of your classes, learn some dentistry, pass the boards, and then share an ounce your arrogance. In the mean time, I would suggest you listen more to upper classmen and take notes. You're not correct, you're not even close being correct?

she was obviously at least mostly joking, hence the "" after the statement. aren't you getting a little worked up? besides, it doesn't take an upper class dental student to know that 60k a year even for a new dentist is rather low for most areas.

 

[texas_dds]

i'd say that you HAVE to be doing some fixed pros to get anywhere with production. its kinda fishy when someone says, you do all the grunt work and i do all the good stuff. keep looking for another deal - my 3 cents.

 

[arns51]

From what I have heard from dental faculty at CWRU you can expect an 85-100K salary first year out.

 

[delicious]

she was obviously at least mostly joking, hence the "" after the statement. aren't you getting a little worked up? besides, it doesn't take an upper class dental student to know that 60k a year even for a new dentist is rather low for most areas.

Thanks Biogirl, you're a sweetheart! Yah-E and lestatzinnie, you people need to lighten up a little bit.

And LestatZinnie, I'm a bit surprised. From your history of posts, I would have thought you would want to convince everybody that dentists in america make tons of money right off the bat - so that the canadians don't undeservedly come back to Canada, and steal your patients.

Lestatzinnie, you're a princess. A princess.

 

[LestatZinnie]

Thanks Biogirl, you're a sweetheart! Yah-E and lestatzinnie, you people need to lighten up a little bit.

And LestatZinnie, I'm a bit surprised. From your history of posts, I would have thought you would want to convince everybody that dentists in america make tons of money right off the bat - so that the canadians don't undeservedly come back to Canada, and steal your patients.

Lestatzinnie, you're a princess. A princess.

there's a difference between what I believe, and what's real out there. maybe if people know that they won't be pulling 6 figures without lots of sweat and tears, they won't be so eager to head to the states and get that DMD, all costs be damned? in addition, my view about people staying in the US does not apply to everyone who pursues dentistry in the US, but rather those who just don't cut it anywhere else. Some poster here worked hard, had good stats, and just didnt make it in Canada due to badluck and had to go South, or those who decides to go south because they think they can get a better education, those I have no problem with at all, since I could've very well been one of them. It's the ones with a 3.0, have no motivation to better themselves, and then just forks the $$ to the private schools that accepts them that irks me. Not to say all private school students are like that, though, as I'm sure there are some ppl who did very well and just didnt get in public schools because of bad luck. But anyway, I dont want to dwell on this point any further, cuz opinions are like @$$holes, everybody's got one

lets get back to the real issue here, how much associates should make, and hear some facts.

by the way, i'm a guy.

 

[UMDeeMan]

you guys some comve over to the dental hygiene topic in the Pre-Dent forum. probably would get a good laugh, and at my expense if you listen to darky. but it's basically the same situation here. only the argument seems to have went from salary to education (compared to a PA) to respect/support.

 

[delicious]

It's the ones with a 3.0, have no motivation to better themselves, and then just forks the $$ to the private schools that accepts them that irks me.

Whoa there princess!! You should step down from your high horse there. Who's to say that people with 3.0 GPAs didn't work their butts off to get that. And listen precious, pretty much anyone who graduates from a dental school (US or Canadian) has motivation. Talk to you later honey.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

there's a difference between what I believe, and what's real out there. maybe if people know that they won't be pulling 6 figures without lots of sweat and tears, they won't be so eager to head to the states and get that DMD, all costs be damned? in addition, my view about people staying in the US does not apply to everyone who pursues dentistry in the US, but rather those who just don't cut it anywhere else. Some poster here worked hard, had good stats, and just didnt make it in Canada due to badluck and had to go South, or those who decides to go south because they think they can get a better education, those I have no problem with at all, since I could've very well been one of them. It's the ones with a 3.0, have no motivation to better themselves, and then just forks the $$ to the private schools that accepts them that irks me. Not to say all private school students are like that, though, as I'm sure there are some ppl who did very well and just didnt get in public schools because of bad luck. But anyway, I dont want to dwell on this point any further, cuz opinions are like @$$holes, everybody's got one

lets get back to the real issue here, how much associates should make, and hear some facts.

by the way, i'm a guy.

Ouch...you would really hate me then! Cause I was one of those guys at UofT who partied it up during undergrad, spent my entire undergrad career travelling and didnt work hard or make school my priority at all.....wound up with a low GPA, didnt stand a chance up north and had to apply down south. Would I do it again? IN A HEARTBEAT!

 

[delicious]

Ouch...you would really hate me then! Cause I was one of those guys at UofT who partied it up during undergrad, spent my entire undergrad career travelling and didnt work hard or make school my priority at all.....wound up with a low GPA, didnt stand a chance up north and had to apply down south. Would I do it again? IN A HEARTBEAT!

👍 That's awesome dr.badvibes!! You probably learned more travelling than you ever would've in some classroom. Yeah, that chic lestatzinnie is a real stiffly stifferson.

 

[gpg]

Gavin, there are no two sides to this argument. I am correct. 😡 😡

😛 😛 😛 🙄 🙄 🙄

 

[UMDeeMan]

Ouch...you would really hate me then! Cause I was one of those guys at UofT who partied it up during undergrad, spent my entire undergrad career travelling and didnt work hard or make school my priority at all.....wound up with a low GPA, didnt stand a chance up north and had to apply down south. Would I do it again? IN A HEARTBEAT!

here here mang, i screwed up my first year also. you only live once so get r' done. i learned that i couldn't party and go onto professional school so i made my choice to focus on professional school. they should save like 2-5 seats for people in that situation that don't have those stellar high "i stayed in every weekend to memorize o-chem reactions" gpa's. live the dream baby - David Ames

 

[Dr. Nubbs]

Gavin, there are no two sides to this argument. I am correct. 😡 😡

Wow, Delish is getting pretty saucy. 😀 Maybe I missed it, but in what part of the country is this practicd found? Rural or urban? Living expenses vs. net income? You can't even eat for $250/day on the coasts, while that may be a king's salary in Padookah, Kentucky (if there are any current residents of Padookah on this forum, I mean no offense).