Would like some advice between two paths

[ScooterSavior]

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Hi all. I'm a recent graduate with a double major in CS and Statistics. I think I'm somewhere between non-trad and traditional but given I didn't take any premed coursework and I graduate college this month I think I'm more non-trad?

I was flip-floppy between deciding to do medicine or not throughout college but now I am ready to put my foot down and commit. I am/was all set to start a career as a software engineer in August but I've interned at enough places throughout college that I know that it's not something I want to do. I am competent in it but I dislike being at a desk all day feeling like completing doing meaningless tasks.


I'm having trouble deciding between two paths.

Option 1:
- Job: Software Engineer (start date is mid-August)
- Lose NY residency (job is OOS)
- Eventually quit job in order to do higher-level courses
- Complete premed requirements in 3 years
- Pay off 20k student loans
- Research opportunities unlikely

Option 2:
- Job: PCA for elders (current job)
- Keep NY residency
- Live with parents
- Enroll in local uni
- Complete premed requirements in 2 years
- Guaranteed biology research (verbal offer from the prof I know there)

The more I think about it, the more I prefer option 2. The biology research would make me a way more competitive applicant for research-heavy schools, I also would prefer to keep in-state status in New York because I know I want to stay here in the long run and I want to apply to NY medical schools. As much as I dislike having my student loans accumulate interest, I feel like 20k in the long-run would be negligible and with my current PCA job I can still pay off a decent amount.

 

[jhmmd]

Hi @ScooterSavior. It seems like your biggest concern boils down to the money that you owe on your loans. Do you know about IBR (income-based replayment?) You may be eligible for this drastic reduction in the amount you pay every month. This is even available for residents, if you decide to go the med route. But it seems like you don't have a clear reason for why you want to go into medicine (or at least you haven't listed it here). Don't worry, there are other ways to pay off your loans. You might want to look up the highest-paying careers with the bureau of labor statistics, or something like that. Just an idea. 🙂

 

[GreenDuck12]

What state is the new job in?

 

[ScooterSavior]

@tjg1 Thank you! I didn't list why because I wanted to be as concise as a possible but in case you (or anyone reading this) is wondering:

I shadowed my grandma's doctor during the winter-break (before I had serious plans of pursuing medical schools) and the doctor I shadowed ran a cash-only clinic where most of the patients were undocumented and uninsured. It was really nice to see how he could vastly improve the quality of life of so many people within a span of a few hours. People came in every day with chronic conditions that were ignored because of language and money barriers and seeing people get access to medicine, tests, and care they need just stuck with me. I'm definitely a people-person and I enjoyed seeing the patient-doctor interactions. I would like to be part of the change that makes preventative healthcare more accessible. I'm fluent in Spanish, Mandarin, and Portuguese and I could see myself working with underserved communities and maybe also using my language skills to help educate people within those communities. Also, even through my current work as a PCA very much humble work, literally bathing and helping with toileting, I love the work I do for my clients even the bad-tempered ones. I feel fulfilled in a way the coding doesn't fulfill me even when I interned at a mission-driven non-profit.


[edit] And you're right about the income-based repayment. I was thinking about option 1 mostly because I feel inclined to be 100% financially independent which wouldn't be the case with option 2 but given that I have a supportive family, financial independence shouldn't me my primary decision-maker.

 

[ScooterSavior]

What state is the new job in?

California. Aside from being far away, it's harder to get into medical school there anyway I hear 😕

 

[jhmmd]

California. Aside from being far away, it's harder to get into medical school there anyway I hear 😕

Ya. California is hands-down the worst state where you can establish residency for the purpose of becoming a med student. Mark my words. People are opening up new med schools all the time but the problem (as you may know) is the number of residency seats; there are simply too many premeds in such a large state. I'd recommend staying in NY if this is the route you want to take.

 

[ScooterSavior]

@tjg1 thanks for the advice! It's nice to know that the option I lean towards makes sense.

 

[SunMouse]

Sounds like option 2 is the most efficient. Is it only money that’s making you consider option 1? Seems like you know what you’re getting into from your job and shadowing, but if you do still have doubts about medicine, it might be beneficial to work for a couple years first. Medical schools aren’t going anywhere (well, probably...).

Just as a word of caution since you mentioned finances, don’t underestimate the cost of this. Beyond the original student loans, there’s all the prerequisite classes, MCAT, and application costs too.

 

[ScooterSavior]

Sounds like option 2 is the most efficient. Is it only money that’s making you consider option 1? Seems like you know what you’re getting into from your job and shadowing, but if you do still have doubts about medicine, it might be beneficial to work for a couple years first. Medical schools aren’t going anywhere (well, probably...).

Just as a word of caution since you mentioned finances, don’t underestimate the cost of this. Beyond the original student loans, there’s all the prerequisite classes, MCAT, and application costs too.

The doubts I have about medicine are primarily that if don't succeed in pre-med, I would be a couple of years without work experience which could make it harder to find work. I'm risk-averse, frugal, and try to be as independent as I can. Even with the loans I have from my undergraduate degree, I had about 10k of housing expenses that weren't covered and from sophomore year onward I was the one that paid that.

It's great being risk-averse and frugal but it's set me on a good responsible path. However, I feel like these character traits are stopping me from really pushing myself to do the things I want to do. Medicine will always be there but I feel a need to start working towards it now rather than trying to fulfill these financial expectations I've set on myself.

I'm really lucky that I have my mom's financial support so the only costs I have to worry about are my educational costs and car insurance. Home + food is completely covered for as long as I continue living at home. If I continue working as a PCA and while I'm unenrolled in school also having another side-gig, I feel like I could just about manage with the costs I will have and maybe even have the option of continuing to build my saving's.

I spoke to two mentors of mine today and I really appreciated their input.

One of them was completely gun-ho and told me that if I felt determined to do this I should just go for it. He did the same exact thing in his 20's a couple decades ago and even went and attended the same local university that I plan on attending. He was just diagnosed this week with a terminal cancer. Talking to him makes me feel like I should really just take my life in stride and go after my dreams.

My other mentor was also supportive but he explained to me that I am in the position to negotiate with the software engineering job offer so that I could do remote work while I continue to live in New York. I am skeptical about being able to convince the company into letting me do remote work because of the kind of work they do but I don't have anything to lose by asking about it. Especially if classes go online for the fall semester, doing remote work and pushing off college enrollment while the covid19 crisis plays out would be a dream because I would still keep my state residency and save a lot of money.

I realize that I may have another option as well which would be landing software development job in New York or remotely. This would likely take me a few months because so many places are going under hiring freezing but it's not like I would be twiddling my thumbs in the meanwhile.

 

[Meridian32]

I'm a former software engineer who is now a doctor. I recommend taking the software engineering job (and/or looking for a similar job close to home), for a few reasons:

- You will learn a lot more doing 2-3 years of full time software engineering work than 2-3 years of PCA work, not just in terms of software engineering skills but more importantly the soft skills you learn working in a professional team environment such as goal setting, time management, conflict management, communication, potentially people management, etc. These skills have been invaluable to me in medicine and they have also helped set me apart from other applicants while applying to med school, residency and fellowship.

- The difference between 2-3 years of PCA pay vs. software engineer pay is significant, especially at the start of your career when you are building savings. Taking compound interest into account, you should calculate out the resultant delta in retirement savings 40-50 years down the line.

- If you find PCA work more meaningful than software engineering work, then you can do part-time PCA work or other volunteering on nights or weekends.

- It is valuable to know what full time software engineering work is like. For one, it is different than internships (interns are almost never given work that is mission critical). Also, medical training is really hard and there will be times when you entertain the thought of leaving medicine and going into industry. When those times occur, it is valuable to have firsthand experience of what industry is really like, rather than an idealized view that may not align with reality.

 

[ScooterSavior]

@Meridian32 thank you for the insight! It's nice to hear from someone that comes from a similar background.

I am still really hesitant about potentially losing my in-state status however I think if I work diligently to maintain/regain it I could potentially keep/get it back. Maybe I could do 1 year in California and after that year of experience it will be easier for me to find my next job in New York.

I'm going to apply to the community college and university close to the job offer I have.

Financially this is probably the most reasonable way to go about it. I am still kind of dreading the office job but I can make it work.

 

[SunMouse]

The doubts I have about medicine are primarily that if don't succeed in pre-med, I would be a couple of years without work experience which could make it harder to find work. I'm risk-averse, frugal, and try to be as independent as I can. Even with the loans I have from my undergraduate degree, I had about 10k of housing expenses that weren't covered and from sophomore year onward I was the one that paid that.

It's great being risk-averse and frugal but it's set me on a good responsible path. However, I feel like these character traits are stopping me from really pushing myself to do the things I want to do. Medicine will always be there but I feel a need to start working towards it now rather than trying to fulfill these financial expectations I've set on myself.

I'm really lucky that I have my mom's financial support so the only costs I have to worry about are my educational costs and car insurance. Home + food is completely covered for as long as I continue living at home. If I continue working as a PCA and while I'm unenrolled in school also having another side-gig, I feel like I could just about manage with the costs I will have and maybe even have the option of continuing to build my saving's.

I spoke to two mentors of mine today and I really appreciated their input.

One of them was completely gun-ho and told me that if I felt determined to do this I should just go for it. He did the same exact thing in his 20's a couple decades ago and even went and attended the same local university that I plan on attending. He was just diagnosed this week with a terminal cancer. Talking to him makes me feel like I should really just take my life in stride and go after my dreams.

My other mentor was also supportive but he explained to me that I am in the position to negotiate with the software engineering job offer so that I could do remote work while I continue to live in New York. I am skeptical about being able to convince the company into letting me do remote work because of the kind of work they do but I don't have anything to lose by asking about it. Especially if classes go online for the fall semester, doing remote work and pushing off college enrollment while the covid19 crisis plays out would be a dream because I would still keep my state residency and save a lot of money.

I realize that I may have another option as well which would be landing software development job in New York or remotely. This would likely take me a few months because so many places are going under hiring freezing but it's not like I would be twiddling my thumbs in the meanwhile.

If you can find a software job in your current location, that might be the best option overall.

I guess I should have mentioned, but you remind me a lot of myself a few years ago. 🙂 Different engineering field, but I was considering essentially the same options (with the same doubts), and chose to go with working full time a few years. Now getting ready to apply this year. Like was said with more eloquence and authority above, I don’t regret it for basically the same reasons: the experience was valuable, and so was the financial benefit.

 

[ScooterSavior]

@SunMouse I'm happy to hear some reassurance that keeping up with full-time work and completing prereqs is was doable. I'm definitely more convinced about it keeping my job offer

I realized that I've done all this speculation and planning without charting out my options!

I see now that the plan where I quit Software Engineering is maybe not the best choice. The only advantage that Plan 1 is that I could try to apply during the 2022 cycle and -maybe- get in one year earlier but I the $$ and lack of professional experience and a significant downside. Also I would be finishing Orgo in May and then doing the MCAT in June and idk I wouldn't want to feel that rushed. So from a practical standpoint, applying during summer 2023 is seems like the wisest option.

I feel like Plan 3 is by far my best option but it's contingent on me landing a job after spending max. one year at my current job OR within the coming two months landing a different job offer in NY. If not then I would go with Plan 2 where I could take a bunch of classes at once, hopefully find meaningful opportunity after finishing my classes.

I think that in Plan 2 & 3 since I'm only staying in outside of New York for 1 year I am likely able to keep my residency without too much inconvenience/risk.

I'm going to try my best for Plan 3 and with Plan 2 being my backup.

(btw yes, I never took English in college lol)

 

[DocJanItor]

@SunMouse I'm happy to hear some reassurance that keeping up with full-time work and completing prereqs is was doable. I'm definitely more convinced about it keeping my job offer

I realized that I've done all this speculation and planning without charting out my options!

View attachment 305549


I see now that the plan where I quit Software Engineering is maybe not the best choice. The only advantage that Plan 1 is that I could try to apply during the 2022 cycle and -maybe- get in one year earlier but I the $$ and lack of professional experience and a significant downside. Also I would be finishing Orgo in May and then doing the MCAT in June and idk I wouldn't want to feel that rushed. So from a practical standpoint, applying during summer 2023 is seems like the wisest option.

I feel like Plan 3 is by far my best option but it's contingent on me landing a job after spending max. one year at my current job OR within the coming two months landing a different job offer in NY. If not then I would go with Plan 2 where I could take a bunch of classes at once, hopefully find meaningful opportunity after finishing my classes.

I think that in Plan 2 & 3 since I'm only staying in outside of New York for 1 year I am likely able to keep my residency without too much inconvenience/risk.

I'm going to try my best for Plan 3 and with Plan 2 being my backup.

(btw yes, I never took English in college lol)

I'm surprised you were able to graduate without english courses. Did you test out of it with AP credit? If so, you don't need to take it.
Q1: why no summer courses? Bio and gen chem are easy enough to take over the summer. You can take them full length or accelerated and really get ahead of your schedule.

As for your MCAT, you should definitely take it as early as possible. You don't want to put yourself in a position where your application is waiting on your MCAT score, but then your score comes back lower than you thought and your whole cycle is shot. Try to find a way to take it in Fall 2022 so that you can retake in the spring if you need to. Make sure you are prepared and scoring in range on your practice exams. Taking it once is far better than taking it twice.

 

[ScooterSavior]

I'm surprised you were able to graduate without english courses. Did you test out of it with AP credit? If so, you don't need to take it.
Q1: why no summer courses? Bio and gen chem are easy enough to take over the summer. You can take them full length or accelerated and really get ahead of your schedule.

As for your MCAT, you should definitely take it as early as possible. You don't want to put yourself in a position where your application is waiting on your MCAT score, but then your score comes back lower than you thought and your whole cycle is shot. Try to find a way to take it in Fall 2022 so that you can retake in the spring if you need to. Make sure you are prepared and scoring in range on your practice exams. Taking it once is far better than taking it twice.

The writing classes I took at my college were interdisciplinary so they are labeled like Philosophy 201 (Writing-Intensive). I did do two dual-enrollment English classes in high school but they were completed at my high school and not at a community college. The credits were granted via Syracuse University Project Advance (SUPA). Because the courses weren't taught by a college professor none of the undergrad schools I applied to accepted the credits. Maybe medical schools would? I will have to look into that and maybe ask some schools directly.

In terms of summer courses, I feel like most of what I read on SDN says that I should avoid them since ADCOM's view them unfavorably. Is that outdated advice or specific to traditional students?

If I take bio and general chemistry this summer it will be online as well. Not all of the schools I'm interested in have put out statements in regards to online courses during the summer term.

I can reach out to schools specifically and just ask them I guess. No harm in that.

 

[DocJanItor]

The writing classes I took at my college were interdisciplinary so they are labeled like Philosophy 201 (Writing-Intensive). I did do two dual-enrollment English classes in high school but they were completed at my high school and not at a community college. The credits were granted via Syracuse University Project Advance (SUPA). Because the courses weren't taught by a college professor none of the undergrad schools I applied to accepted the credits. Maybe medical schools would? I will have to look into that and maybe ask some schools directly.

In terms of summer courses, I feel like most of what I read on SDN says that I should avoid them since ADCOM's view them unfavorably. Is that outdated advice or specific to traditional students?

If I take bio and general chemistry this summer it will be online as well. Not all of the schools I'm interested in have put out statements in regards to online courses during the summer term.

I can reach out to schools specifically and just ask them I guess. No harm in that.

Yeah, sounds like you better take English.

As for summer classes, I've never heard of any bias against them. They're usually taught by the same professors and use the same tests. Plus you have to be able to learn enough material to advance to the next class so I'm not sure why they'd be treated any differently.

I think all schools are going to have to start accepting online credits from this point on. There's no guarantee that in person classes will be able to resume without another flare up this fall/winter. Online courses are going to become more and more prevalent.