Would SOAP match be beneficial for someone whose ultimate goal is CAP

[Rogert]

TLDR: Thread title

I realize this appears late but I had been trying other forums and not gotten any response. For context, I did not graduate with my DO class last year due to failing the Level 2 PE twice. I had applied for match that year but withdrew when I had no interviews by January or February. Based on this, I decided to delay graduation and retake the PE in the summer when I was no longer doing rotations. COVID hit and eliminated my opportunity to retake it. I applied for match again this year with essentially the same resume, only adding my two new social worker positions. Predictably, I again received no interviews again. As I did not withdraw, I do have the option of SOAP matching this time. However, based on the data I'm seeing, there is no opportunity to enter psych via SOAP and little to even transition to a psych residency after first year, especially not one near my wife. So as far as I can tell, the only benefit to SOAP matching (if I even succeeded in matching) is having the status of a physician. There would be no improvement on my ability to enter child psych, my home life would be worse as I would have to move away from my wife, and the financials would break even based on my current income and expense. Because of the removal of the PE and, as far as I can see, removal of its failure from my record, I can now graduate and take Level 3. So were I not to attempt to SOAP, I would take and pass Level 3 and reapply for the main match.

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[Old&InTheWay]

You could try to SOAP into a Peds spot and go for PPP after the Peds residency.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

TLDR: Thread title

I realize this appears late but I had been trying other forums and not gotten any response. For context, I did not graduate with my DO class last year due to failing the Level 2 PE twice. I had applied for match that year but withdrew when I had no interviews by January or February. Based on this, I decided to delay graduation and retake the PE in the summer when I was no longer doing rotations. COVID hit and eliminated my opportunity to retake it. I applied for match again this year with essentially the same resume, only adding my two new social worker positions. Predictably, I again received no interviews again. As I did not withdraw, I do have the option of SOAP matching this time. However, based on the data I'm seeing, there is no opportunity to enter psych via SOAP and little to even transition to a psych residency after first year, especially not one near my wife. So as far as I can tell, the only benefit to SOAP matching (if I even succeeded in matching) is having the status of a physician. There would be no improvement on my ability to enter child psych, my home life would be worse as I would have to move away from my wife, and the financials would break even based on my current income and expense. Because of the removal of the PE and, as far as I can see, removal of its failure from my record, I can now graduate and take Level 3. So were I not to attempt to SOAP, I would take and pass Level 3 and reapply for the main match.

Try to get a residency position however you can. I would worry exactly none WHAT speciality you want to get into. Your goal right now is to get into ANY speciality, even if it's a family med position on a farm in Idaho or a prelim surgery position in Alaska. Your career opportunities are infinitely more open having done ANY residency at all.

Don't even think this far ahead. Your goal is to scramble into anything unless you want to have a really expensive worthless piece of paper as your reward for graduating from med school. You don't get to choose what you scramble into anyway for the most part.

 

[Sushirolls]

Bare minimum as a DO, get an intern year somewhere so you could then be elgible to get an independt license.

Once you have that, you can throw up a shingle, open your own practice, emphasize OMM and do some GP primary care management. All cash only. Take time to build up that practice, but could probably do just as well as FM/IM after a few years. Not a bad way to go really. Considering the bottom has fallen out of the medical establishment and ARNPs, NDs, DCs are basically putting themselves out their as full fledged PCPs.

 

[Stagg737]

Agree with the above to just get into some residency. If you can get into FM or IM or anything other than pre-lim or TRI all the better. If you can't transfer to psych after PGY-1, finish the residency, reapply for psych positions or practice a few years then reapply if your heart is truly set on psych. Many doctors go back and switch fields later, completely feasible.

However, that is all contingent on you getting into ANY residency first. If you can't, then any other conversation is irrelevant anyway.

 

[kopftonmd]

I like who ever said peds above, could do that -> adolescent med fellowship. When I was on adolescent there was a lot a lot of anxiety/depression/EDs.

 

[robellis]

Psych probably won’t happen, I recommend getting FM

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Obviously, SOAP into psychiatry if you want a psychiatry fellowship, but this is a long shot so cover you bases and think broadly. Doing well in the next phase of your training will hopefully go a long way towards opening doors for you.

 

[Silverhand]

Agree that at this point, if you want to practice medicine, then getting any position is important -- it's not "just" getting the status of a physician. That said, if you want to do CAP, then I agree with the recommendations to consider Peds.

I SOAPed myself after applying psych and went into Peds and now am a fellow at a PPPP program (so yes, it WOULD be important and give you a chance to CAP). There are usually plenty of peds positions available (though location may be variable year to year) since that is unique for your family's situation. If you do Peds, you also have the option to do Developmental Peds or Adolescent Medicine, which are very heavy on pediatric mental health.

 

[Merovinge]

If you do Peds, you also have the option to do Developmental Peds or Adolescent Medicine, which are very heavy on pediatric mental health.

They are, but they come from a very different perspective and have very little of the training that I find critical for being a CAP. Our developmental peds fellows shadowed through a few outpatient CAP clinics for a few months but otherwise have no training in psychopharmacology (as gen peds has near zero, particularly beyond basic psychostimulant and SSRI usage).

I suppose of the idea of treating depressed or anxious kids bothers you, developmental peds make sense. Likewise if you dislike dealing 5-12 year olds but love adolescents and like practicing gen peds plus more mental health, I can see the appeal of Adolescent medicine. Generally though I think most people interested in CAP that are doing peds should think portal first, Dev and Adol significantly lower on the tier list of desirability.

 

[hallowmann]

TLDR: Thread title

I realize this appears late but I had been trying other forums and not gotten any response. For context, I did not graduate with my DO class last year due to failing the Level 2 PE twice. I had applied for match that year but withdrew when I had no interviews by January or February. Based on this, I decided to delay graduation and retake the PE in the summer when I was no longer doing rotations. COVID hit and eliminated my opportunity to retake it. I applied for match again this year with essentially the same resume, only adding my two new social worker positions. Predictably, I again received no interviews again. As I did not withdraw, I do have the option of SOAP matching this time. However, based on the data I'm seeing, there is no opportunity to enter psych via SOAP and little to even transition to a psych residency after first year, especially not one near my wife. So as far as I can tell, the only benefit to SOAP matching (if I even succeeded in matching) is having the status of a physician. There would be no improvement on my ability to enter child psych, my home life would be worse as I would have to move away from my wife, and the financials would break even based on my current income and expense. Because of the removal of the PE and, as far as I can see, removal of its failure from my record, I can now graduate and take Level 3. So were I not to attempt to SOAP, I would take and pass Level 3 and reapply for the main match.

Did the bolded actually happen? I was under the impression that the NBOME is still pushing to keep it and requiring it for taking Level 3. COCA, I believe, has left it up to schools to decide if they still require it for graduation, most of which can't require it because it would mean not graduating most of the 2021 class.

I'm sorry this all happened to you. On a normal year you could retake and likely get a position somewhere (maybe not in psych, but probably in the match). At this point, as described above, your goal is to get literally any PGY1 position. Residency first (likely FM, IM or peds), and then TY, pre-lim, etc. second. You will need that and a year of COMLEX to get a license in most states, which should be your biggest priority.

You can always try for psych after completing a pre-lim or finishing one of the other residencies. FM/IM will also have some primary care behavioral fellowships, addiction med if that's what you're interested in, etc. as other possible options. You need to get something, that's your goal, forget aiming for CAP for now, aim for getting licensed, then worry about psych/CAP.

 

[Rogert]

Did the bolded actually happen? I was under the impression that the NBOME is still pushing to keep it and requiring it for taking Level 3. COCA, I believe, has left it up to schools to decide if they still require it for graduation, most of which can't require it because it would mean not graduating most of the 2021 class.

I'm sorry this all happened to you. On a normal year you could retake and likely get a position somewhere (maybe not in psych, but probably in the match). At this point, as described above, your goal is to get literally any PGY1 position. Residency first (likely FM, IM or peds), and then TY, pre-lim, etc. second. You will need that and a year of COMLEX to get a license in most states, which should be your biggest priority.

You can always try for psych after completing a pre-lim or finishing one of the other residencies. FM/IM will also have some primary care behavioral fellowships, addiction med if that's what you're interested in, etc. as other possible options. You need to get something, that's your goal, forget aiming for CAP for now, aim for getting licensed, then worry about psych/CAP.

It did. NBOME was pushing to keep it but my understanding is that external pressures made them cave. It's requirement for Level 3 was suspended for the classes of '20 and '21 as of the 11th. COCA removed the graduation requirement in November. My school is still doing a standardized patient exam for those who had previous failures but I was given a pass based on my previous clinical evaluations and standardized patient testing.

Thank you everyone for your advice. Here's hoping tomorrow goes well.