Would this be a good topic?

[ZombieDante]

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[LizzyM]

So a while back (a think about a year ago) I made this post pretty much saying I wanted to write my PS about how I stuck with [an activity I disliked] though I hated it.


I wanted to write about this experience in my PS and relate it back to my overall mission/goal of helping those who society is oppressing/are disadvantaged.

Would this be a good idea?

You are going to be asked why medicine is the route to this goal rather than law, social work, public policy advocacy, etc. Have an answer ready or anticipate it and address it in your PS.

 

[mimelim]

So a while back (a think about a year ago) I made this post pretty much saying I wanted to write my PS about how I stuck with debate though I hated it.



The backlash was crazy and I was told it wasn't the best idea. So this year I continued the activity, but made a big change. I found a partner I got along with, didn't take the crap they gave me, and worked my butt off. Went to nationals and it embodied everything I hated about college debate (sexism, homophobia, racism, etc.) in full force. Instead of taking this me and my partner did this thing where instead of debating the topics we talked about how to rid the debate community of these issues. This meant talking about our very personal issues and let's just say it wasn't the most effective on a large scale but on a small scale it worked and was very emotional for those we encountered.

I wanted to write about this experience in my PS and relate it back to my overall mission/goal of helping those who society is oppressing/are disadvantaged.

Would this be a good idea?

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THIS POST, I PLAN TO DELETE IT SOON BECAUSE IT IS SOMEWHAT HIGHLY IDENTIFIABLE! THANK YOU

So umm, what does this have to do with a future career in medicine?

 

[Bermie]

This sounds exactly like a Radiolab podcast I listened to recently. It was called "Debatable".

 

[LizzyM]

This sounds exactly like a Radiolab podcast I listened to recently. It was called "Debatable".

The whole thing doesn't Wash. I suspect a bit of fiction writing here.

 

[ZombieDante]

You are going to be asked why medicine is the route to this goal rather than law, social work, public policy advocacy, etc. Have an answer ready or anticipate it and address it in your PS.

Well other than my other medicine related activities that I would mention I was possibly thinking about mentioning about how I have a huge desire to give back, but I also love science and medicine. Through several of my other activities I have learned of the disparities in medicine so becoming a physician not only allows me to go into something I love, but also lets me fulfill my life goal. However, I feel like that's kinda a selfish/childish way of thinking, just going into it because "hey this stuff is kinda cool"

So umm, what does this have to do with a future career in medicine?

Well this is just one part of my big answer of "why medicine." The rest of my activities show my interest in medicine. A lot of my activities deal with medical desparities in certain communities, why some groups (particularly minorities do not feel comfortable going to the doctors) and my research also deals with underpresented communities as well. I was going to relate this back to my desire to make sure those communities are given the same opportunities as others. Pretty much URM wanting to serve his community and others like it, this is an example of how I want to make sure equal opportunities are possible.

Crazy oversimplification, but that's pretty much the overarching idea.
PS thank you for respecting my one request....

This sounds exactly like a Radiolab podcast I listened to recently. It was called "Debatable".

I don't know if that was just a pun or actually serious....

 

[Bermie]

I don't know if that was just a pun or actually serious....

Serious. Check it out for yourself. I imagine you would enjoy it.

 

[Bermie]

I don't know if that was just a pun or actually serious....

Sorry for the confusion. I can see how my original comment would be taken as a snarky pun.

 

[LizzyM]

How does a physician address health disparities? What will you "do" as a physician to address disparities?

 

[To be MD]

This sounds exactly like a Radiolab podcast I listened to recently. It was called "Debatable".

Hahah, it's so similar that I'm wondering if OP is the guy.

 

[LizzyM]

Hahah, it's so similar that I'm wondering if OP is the guy.

But it is about something that happened in 2013... that's why I think it is fishy that someone is writing about having the same experience in 2015-2016.

 

[ZombieDante]

Is the thing that everyone is referencing the Harvard debate incident? Me and my partner actually talked about that in our presentation and noted that how still nothing has changed (and in fact maybe getting worse). I never said this idea was 100% original, but certain events at that debate tournament lead to this decision (in fact our position was more about what happened at that tournament more than anything). If the Harvard debate incident is what everyone is referencing and is that popular maybe I won't write about this in fear of being mistaken as a copycat.

How does a physician address health disparities? What will you "do" as a physician to address disparities?

I mean I guess I'm looking along the lines of adding diversity to the medical community (gay black man here), advocating for those who aren't able for their selves, and practice rural medicine (maybe..still learning more about what all that entails).

 

[LizzyM]

Gay, black man interested in rural medicine (hope you have a partner because it is slim pickin's for docs in rural areas)... you don't need a hook like debate club to get noticed. Focus on what you know about the community and why you want to serve and what you've done to test your self in health care environments. Decent stats and decent LORs and you are golden.

 

[To be MD]

Is the thing that everyone is referencing the Harvard debate incident? Me and my partner actually talked about that in our presentation and noted that how still nothing has changed (and in fact maybe getting worse). I never said this idea was 100% original, but certain events at that debate tournament lead to this decision (in fact our position was more about what happened at that tournament more than anything). If the Harvard debate incident is what everyone is referencing and is that popular maybe I won't write about this in fear of being mistaken as a copycat.


I mean I guess I'm looking along the lines of adding diversity to the medical community (gay black man here), advocating for those who aren't able for their selves, and practice rural medicine (maybe..still learning more about what all that entails).

I'm not saying you don't have your own, awesome story.

The reason why there's some confusion/doubt here in general is that "a queer, Black, first-generation college student from Kansas City, Missouri" has an eerily similar story to yours. In 2013, he and his partner went on to win the National Debate Tournament, beating out Harvard and, in the final round, Northwestern.

If you're going to use what you have as your PS, I suggest you listen to that podcast to make sure you're story substantially differentiates itself from the Radiolab episode. A lot of people who love science (e.g. everyone in medical schools and on SDN) listen to Radiolab, so you just have to be careful tailoring your personal statement to be personal (unique).

 

[Goro]

This is something I'd expect to see in an applicant to a law school or a political science program, not medical school. While we want people who wil be patient advocates, we don't want advocates. Go to Washington DC for that.

I wanted to write about this experience in my PS and relate it back to my overall mission/goal of helping those who society is oppressing/are disadvantaged.

 

[Germanicus89]

Hahah, it's so similar that I'm wondering if OP is the guy.

I had the same thought.

 

[ZombieDante]

Gay, black man interested in rural medicine (hope you have a partner because it is slim pickin's for docs in rural areas)... you don't need a hook like debate club to get noticed. Focus on what you know about the community and why you want to serve and what you've done to test your self in health care environments. Decent stats and decent LORs and you are golden.

Sorry for being dense, but what do you mean "what you know about the community" like the medical community? Also, are you saying I shouldn't express interest in rural medicine?

This is something I'd expect to see in an applicant to a law school or a political science program, not medical school. While we want people who wil be patient advocates, we don't want advocates. Go to Washington DC for that.

I wanted to write about this experience in my PS and relate it back to my overall mission/goal of helping those who society is oppressing/are disadvantaged.

So pretty much what I'm getting is don't mention this at all because it can't really be related back to medicine well enough and too similar to the other story?

 

[Goro]

Don't know about "the other story", but see bolded.

So pretty much what I'm getting is don't mention this at all because it can't really be related back to medicine well enough and too similar to the other story?

 

[Mad Jack]

This is something I'd expect to see in an applicant to a law school or a political science program, not medical school. While we want people who wil be patient advocates, we don't want advocates. Go to Washington DC for that.

I wanted to write about this experience in my PS and relate it back to my overall mission/goal of helping those who society is oppressing/are disadvantaged.

I actually disagree- leaving others to do our advocacy is how medicine has lost ground to the interests of groups like the American Hospital Association and the ANA. They are willing to play politics and we're not, and that's hurting us on a scale that's bad for us and bad for patients. We need physician-advocates, physician-executives, physician-politicians, and whomever we can get in power positions to turn the tides back in our favor on whatever level we can.

 

[Mad Jack]

Sorry for being dense, but what do you mean "what you know about the community" like the medical community? Also, are you saying I shouldn't express interest in rural medicine?


So pretty much what I'm getting is don't mention this at all because it can't really be related back to medicine well enough and too similar to the other story?

I think you're really going wayyyy too out of your way to stand out and be memorable. With your background, ECs, and stats, you don't need to have some magical PS that will wow adcoms, you just need to not screw it up so bad that people toss it in the shredder. Just do you and don't try to go above and beyond with your PS in ways that get a bit convoluted, or you'll risk harming your app care of a loss of suspension of disbelief.

 

[ZombieDante]

Don't know about "the other story", but see bolded.

So like even if I related it back to helping people and the importance of diversity in various fields and then go on to talk about my SMDEP experience where we talked about diversity in medicine and being a patient advocate. Like sorry again for being really dense/hard headed, but I don't understand why being an advocate in general means I'm not interested in medicine. I feel like though a physician's main job is to treat their patient and do no harm, if they just end their advocacy at the office/hospital it won't help them in the long run. Like doctors have a unique standing in society that allows them to stronger advocates than the patients their selves. I understand that policy makers and such have more power in that sense, but I feel like doctors still have a duty to advocate for their patients outside of their office/the hospital as well.

Idk this just might be me being an foolish idealistic child. It's just kinda confusing that doctors are expected to show they care for people even outside of the realm of medicine (non-clinical volunteering) but as soon as a little more advocacy/work is required we/they (premeds/physicians) should accept it is no longer the job of a physician. Sorry, this is probably just me being a foolish child and misunderstanding what everyone means. I'm just honestly kinda confused.

Like this obviously won't be a big part of my essay, but I feel like it was a big part in my journey because it showed that even as one person you can make a difference. I'm not claiming to have solved the problem or have even made a bigger impact than the Kansas team, but adding another ally to the community trying to fix these problems and discussing these problems and our experiences with teams in an very in depth manner did make a difference, abet a small one but a difference non the less.

I actually disagree- leaving others to do our advocacy is how medicine has lost ground to the interests of groups like the American Hospital Association and the ANA. They are willing to play politics and we're not, and that's hurting us on a scale that's bad for us and bad for patients. We need physician-advocates, physician-executives, physician-politicians, and whomever we can get in power positions to turn the tides back in our favor on whatever level we can.

THIS!!

I think you're really going wayyyy too out of your way to stand out and be memorable. With your background, ECs, and stats, you don't need to have some magical PS that will wow adcoms, you just need to not screw it up so bad that people toss it in the shredder. Just do you and don't try to go above and beyond with your PS in ways that get a bit convoluted, or you'll risk harming your app care of a loss of suspension of disbelief.

Honestly, my stats are HORRIBLE! Like so bad and my ECs are basic. Also, I'm not really trying to standout, but honestly I don't have much of a story so I'm just kinda grasping at straws to find my "hook" or really anything.

 

[Mad Jack]

So like even if I related it back to helping people and the importance of diversity in various fields and then go on to talk about my SMDEP experience where we talked about diversity in medicine and being a patient advocate. Like sorry again for being really dense/hard headed, but I don't understand why being an advocate in general means I'm not interested in medicine. I feel like though a physician's main job is to treat their patient and do no harm, if they just end their advocacy at the office/hospital it won't help them in the long run. Like doctors have a unique standing in society that allows them to stronger advocates than the patients their selves. I understand that policy makers and such have more power in that sense, but I feel like doctors still have a duty to advocate for their patients outside of their office/the hospital as well.

Idk this just might be me being an foolish idealistic child. It's just kinda confusing that doctors are expected to show they care for people even outside of the realm of medicine (non-clinical volunteering) but as soon as a little more advocacy/work is required we/they (premeds/physicians) should accept it is no longer the job of a physician. Sorry, this is probably just me being a foolish child and misunderstanding what everyone means. I'm just honestly kinda confused.

Like this obviously won't be a big part of my essay, but I feel like it was a big part in my journey because it showed that even as one person you can make a difference. I'm not claiming to have solved the problem or have even made a bigger impact than the Kansas team, but adding another ally to the community trying to fix these problems and discussing these problems and our experiences with teams in an very in depth manner did make a difference, abet a small one but a difference non the less.


THIS!!


Honestly, my stats are HORRIBLE! Like so bad. Also, I'm not really trying to standout, but honestly I don't have much of a story so I'm just kinda grasping at straws to find my "hook" or really anything.

The trouble is that you really risk detracting from your message. You can only do so much with a statement, and if you hit even one too many areas, it tends to make it feel diluted. I want to be a physician to serve underserved communities and groups is one message. I want to be a physician to serve underserved communities and groups and I'd also like to be an advocate for said groups outside of medicine is two messages. It makes you look half as committed, and hits half as hard. If I were reviewing your app and I saw you had poor stats, I'd be like, "well, at least he can go into politics!"

You're also opening yourself up to all sorts of questions during your interview that give you a strong chance of being shot down, such as "why not social work," or "why medicine and not law or any other field where you can represent and advocate for people?"

 

[ZombieDante]

The trouble is that you really risk detracting from your message. You can only do so much with a statement, and if you hit even one too many areas, it tends to make it feel diluted. I want to be a physician to serve underserved communities and groups is one message. I want to be a physician to serve underserved communities and groups and I'd also like to be an advocate for said groups outside of medicine is two messages. It makes you look half as committed, and hits half as hard. If I were reviewing your app and I saw you had poor stats, I'd be like, "well, at least he can go into politics!"

You're also opening yourself up to all sorts of questions during your interview that give you a strong chance of being shot down, such as "why not social work," or "why medicine and not law or any other field where you can represent and advocate for people?"

Okay, okay I see where you're coming from that makes sense. Completely understandable. So like, what if I just use that story to get across the message of me learning about small impacts and relate that back to just giving back to underserved communities and groups. Something like admitting the fact that I'm not the best debater and thus probably don't have the mindset needed to be a great politician to introduce polices that will have a large scale impact on these communities, however I have a natural talent/interest for science and medicine. By practicing and serving these small communities I may not be making a huge impact, but I'll be making enough of an impact to those I'm helping. Something like that, but nicer and more polished. And talk about my more medically related EC's and why I have an interest in medicine. Or am I still running into the problem of being too divided?

 

[Mad Jack]

Okay, okay I see where you're coming from that makes sense. Completely understandable. So like, what if I just use that story to get across the message of me learning about small impacts and relate that back to just giving back to underserved communities and groups. Something like admitting the fact that I'm not the best debater and thus probably don't have the mindset needed to be a great politician to introduce polices that will have a large scale impact on these communities, however I have a natural talent/interest for science and medicine. By practicing and serving these small communities I may not be making a huge impact, but I'll be making enough of an impact to those I'm helping. Something like that, but nicer and more polished. And talk about my more medically related EC's and why I have an interest in medicine. Or am I still running into the problem of being too divided?

It's best to not build your personal statement on a foundation of your shortcomings, regardless of how profound those realizations might have been for you. It can come off as insecure or insincere. And yeah, you're still coming at it with the same sort of issue at the end- "So you're only doing medicine because you're not any good at what you really want to do then? And what if you find you're not good at medicine, given that you haven't practiced it in the slightest?" You're basically saying, "I'm not good at this one thing, but I'd totally like to try this other thing I have no objective proof I'll be good at and I'll just magically succeed and help people, even if it's not the way I'd prefer to be helping people!"

 

[ZombieDante]

It's best to not build your personal statement on a foundation of your shortcomings, regardless of how profound those realizations might have been for you. It can come off as insecure or insincere. And yeah, you're still coming at it with the same sort of issue at the end- "So you're only doing medicine because you're not any good at what you really want to do then? And what if you find you're not good at medicine, given that you haven't practiced it in the slightest?" You're basically saying, "I'm not good at this one thing, but I'd totally like to try this other thing I have no objective proof I'll be good at and I'll just magically succeed and help people, even if it's not the way I'd prefer to be helping people!"

Oh no, I still do not like college debate or general political debates in the slightest, but I see your point. PS are hard af! I feel like if I go the safe route my essay will be just as basic as basic could be, "By doing X I learned Y. From doing Z I gained a deeper understanding of Y." Sigh anyway thank you again so much. I guess I have some more thinking to do.

 

[LizzyM]

Why do you want to be a physican? What first sparked this interest? Once sparked, what did you do to see if it was the right choice for you? If you are hoping to serve specific underserved communities (geographic areas or demographic groups) , what experiences have you had with those communities that lead you to want to work in improving the health of those folks? What are some of the major problems in that community? Have you lived in a rural area for any length of time? Are you familiar with the challenges of living in rural areas? Talking about life experiences that you bring to the table that will influence your ability to care for patients and advocate on their behalf is a good approach to the personal statement.