Would you choose to be in the charter class of a new school?

[willen101383]

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And you can't assume that they don't. This is SDN, have you forgotten that? I have no idea what I want to do, but I do know that I don't want to close doors before I can open them. I work my ass off in school to get good grades (3.92 as a MS2), and I will put in equal effort to get a good step 1 score. Why? So I can hopefully match into the residency that I want to, in the location that I want to, wherever that may be when the time comes. If I had no care as to where I wanted to practice, or I knew I wanted to own my own practice, it would't make a bit of difference to me if I had a DO or an MD. I know people that prefer to see DO's (for whatever reason that is). But..

If I would have gone DO, and I wanted to be a radiologist in Colorado, I wouldn't ever have the opportunity to even live in that city. Seeing the point now? Sad thing is, RMVCOM rotates their students through Colorado Springs, and they will get no love when they get done (in this particular practice)

yeesh...RVU=opening up a wholeeee 'nother can of worms! I will be the first person to say that if you are gunning for some top residency somewhere than DO probably isnt for you. But for most of us out there who just want to graduate and be good docs its not going to be a problem for you.

 

[Brachyury]

Many DO schools like PCOM, CCOM, Western, etc. have established rotations with huge hospitals that you do your rotations in. They have decades - and as a previous poster just said, sometimes over a century - of generating an alumni network that trusts the education given at the DO institution.

When you apply with your high board score and otherwise solid app to a competitive specialty, there stands a higher chance that a PD who is a DO or MD will pick the graduate from an institution he has experience with. The caliber of hospitals you rotate at will matter and the letters behind your name will not. Thinking that a DO school's acceptance average GPA is .1 or .2 points lower than an MD school is and therefore is a factor is like saying that med schools would influence their acceptance based on whether a candidate scored a 3.4 or 3.6 in high school.

Even if it's an unknown DO school and an unknown MD school, the Program Director will interview you and ask you to talk about your ROTATIONS. Were they inpatient or outpatient? Academic centers? How many patients did you see per day? etc. etc.

The problem is that most medical schools have their own academic medical centers, while only a few osteopathic school have their own hospitals. The quality of your rotations is key, and while some schools like PCOM, CCOM, and Michigan State rotate in good hospitals--sometimes alongside allopathic students--many DO schools have to send their students all over the country, and the quality of these hospitals are hit-or-miss. If you are at CCOM and you're doing your 3rd year rotations at a major hospital in Chicago that has a lot of residents, you're really going to get the 'wards' experience that PDs are looking for. However, if you go to most other DO schools, there's a good chance you'll end-up at a small community hospital where the didactics may not be good.

O.P. William Beaumant hospital is a well-established hosptials with a lot of residents, and it will provide you with excellent clinical training

 

[Barcu]

So basically you have no idea what you are talking about, and you can't comment on the MD or the DO curriculum at this time.

Medical education isn't some holy grail of information that only a select few programs have. It's all the same ****, presented at some point in time during the school year, regardless of where you go. Why does one school have higher board scores than another? Pick from below...

1. School requires students to attend a USMLE prep course.
2. School has very motivated students, who take it seriously, and continue to work hard for the entire two years leading up to their step exam.

There are a higher population of motivated students at the more "difficult" schools to get in to. It's why they have higher step scores.

I completely agree with you. I'm not exactly sure what I said that suggested I didn't think this.

 

[fahimaz7]

Yeah, sorry if my joke was in bad taste. I just couldn't stop thinking about it.

I agree that there are many sweeping generalizations about MD vs. DO on here. It is a shame because I don't think DOs are any less qualified at all. I think the biggest problem is that there are really good DO schools out there, and some that many people have problems with. MD schools can usually be grouped together as pretty similar (I know there are exceptions and the top tier). However, DO schools seem to have a much wider range of quality. This really hurts the perception of DO students, which is unfair.

It is up to you DO students to end this debate, so good luck.

I completely agree with you. I'm not exactly sure what I said that suggested I didn't think this.

That's what I had a problem with. Once you get to medical school, you will see that it is the individual effort of a student, and not the curriculum of the medical school, that will ultimately make the difference on step scores and residency placement. We joke at our school that we would love to just have the packets/reading assignments for the entire two years, and a step 1 date in 23 months, and just let us work through the material and take the test. There's nothing novel about medical education. Everything you "need" to know for step 1 is in about 4 different books.

 

[Barcu]

That's what I had a problem with. Once you get to medical school, you will see that it is the individual effort of a student, and not the curriculum of the medical school, that will ultimately make the difference on step scores and residency placement. We joke at our school that we would love to just have the packets/reading assignments for the entire two years, and a step 1 date in 23 months, and just let us work through the material and take the test. There's nothing novel about medical education. Everything you "need" to know for step 1 is in about 4 different books.

Ah, now I see. And I agree with you.

I phrased it like it was fact when it is really more about the perceptions and reputations of the schools. The "better" students go to top schools, which make them seem like better schools even though they teach the same exact thing. I agree that you can go anywhere and succeed, making it all about you as an individual student.

I think we can safely say, however, that people do get a boost or a hindrance from the school they attend. It can be used or overcome, but it is there.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

I think people lose sight of the fact that most people arent trying to be some ace doc at mass general of BWH or something of that nature....although many of you will probably recall the boston med episode that featured a DO cardiologist @ MGH.

I have no interest in being some ivy leaguer. I want to go to a quality program and be a good doc who takes the time to listen to my patients. If some top academic MD programs shut me out on the basis of some letters...so be it. Elitist snobs like to be amongst their own anyway. Am I still going to be a good doc? I really hope so.

It's not always about the name of the program. There are other factors that go into residency application including LOCATION, research opportunities, type of support system in program, fellowship opportunities as a graduate from program etc. Of course you can be a great doctor in most programs -community based or academic. A lot of residency is self directed learning. But those listed options as well as many other will come into play during the application process. You may think that you are only focused on the single goal of becoming a great doctor, which is laudable, but you'll see it becomes unrealistic. I realize that not everyone wants to be a academics for the rest of their lives. Those of us that do may also lose sight of that fact too. But you also forget that it is or can become an important factor for plenty of medical students. I strive to be a great physician too, but also to dabble in research, devote a large % of my time to teaching and hopefully get into the more administrative aspects of medicine. All that starts with going to a great academic center which all tend to lean to the MD applicants.

As for programs being "elitist," I don't think that is a fair statement at all. Those top programs are more vigorous and demanding than most. They see the hardest cases and hire the most talented and brightest as attending physicians. They will of course want the same characteristics in residents who can keep up. Programs tend to hire from experience. If they know a certain medical school pumps out great physician residents, they will be more likely to draw from the same pool. True, they could stand to pull more from osteopathic schools. These changes will have to start with your osteopathic colleagues to pave the way for future generations. Get those incredible numbers, vie for those competitive spots and slowly get into the system and set a good example. That won't be an easy feat as there are already plenty of great MD candidates who desire the same spot. But until then, just complaining sounds like sour grapes.

 

[mtbtx]

However when the bias is based on the belief that MD students make superior physicians...it pisses me off

I never made the argument that DO students that land a residency would be better/worse docs than anyone else that lands a residency...

 

[gravitywave]

I think the biggest problem is that there are really good DO schools out there, and some that many people have problems with. MD schools can usually be grouped together as pretty similar (I know there are exceptions and the top tier). However, DO schools seem to have a much wider range of quality. This really hurts the perception of DO students, which is unfair.

lingering questions about the quality of DO school clerkships are a major factor in why DOs don't do as well as MDs in the ACGME match. the relative sloppiness of the AOA in rapidly accreditting new programs isn't helping.

The problem is that most medical schools have their own academic medical centers, while only a few osteopathic school have their own hospitals. The quality of your rotations is key, and while some schools like PCOM, CCOM, and Michigan State rotate in good hospitals--sometimes alongside allopathic students--many DO schools have to send their students all over the country, and the quality of these hospitals are hit-or-miss. If you are at CCOM and you're doing your 3rd year rotations at a major hospital in Chicago that has a lot of residents, you're really going to get the 'wards' experience that PDs are looking for. However, if you go to most other DO schools, there's a good chance you'll end-up at a small community hospital where the didactics may not be good.

O.P. William Beaumant hospital is a well-established hosptials with a lot of residents, and it will provide you with excellent clinical training

yep. the difference isn't as great as the match statistics would have you believe, ie: i still think DOs get a raw deal. but if it matters to some PDs, it may ultimately end up impacting your career.

That's what I had a problem with. Once you get to medical school, you will see that it is the individual effort of a student, and not the curriculum of the medical school, that will ultimately make the difference on step scores and residency placement. We joke at our school that we would love to just have the packets/reading assignments for the entire two years, and a step 1 date in 23 months, and just let us work through the material and take the test. There's nothing novel about medical education. Everything you "need" to know for step 1 is in about 4 different books.

true for the first two years, and the corresponding Step. 3rd/4th years are a whole new ballgame, and your remarks about residency placement don't account for the very real impact of clinical curricula.

 

[Fabio001]

It seems to me that when there is something new, a new curriculum, a new building, a new instructor, a new school... there is alot of excitement. As things become more settled, there is a tendency for the atmostphere to become... stuffy. However, of course we must accept the good with the bad. The excitement and enthusiasm surrounding a new school is the primary appeal of them for me. Granted, if I didn't get a good vibe from any school, I'd pick another one.

 

[Musclemass]

PCOMs match list is very impressive

I disagree, there appears to be a dearth of top academic programs on the list and an over-representation of community hosp/military ones (which tend to be less desirable and less competitive).

Also, for a city with so many allo schools and assuming some number of PCOM's grads want to stay in town, there appears an absence of enthusiasm from Philly's allo schools - Penn, Drexel, etc.

It's been said that the stories behind the matches can't be gleaned from simply looking at a list, so maybe the right conclusion is no conclusion.

 

[startswithb]

I've seen a lot of pre-meds around here saying "impressive match list" often, but I believe they are basing that on the number of specialty matches, and not on the type of program. I've been trying to learn about this process recently, and have compared match lists of varying MD and DO programs. My conclusion so far is that IF a DO matches to a super competitive specialty (ohptho, ent, plastics, rad onc, neurosurg, urology) it is often only 1 or 2 in a class of over 200 and it is a DO residency program. Students at some of the top DO schools have good chances at matching large academic ACGME internal medicine and family practice residencies. DOs are also increasingly finding places in ER, diagnostic radiology, OB-GYN, anesthesiology, and psychiatry programs. These tend to be a mix of DO or community-based MD programs.

 

[WingedOx]

wow, so this is a flamey thread isn't it...

ok, so first thing. If you got into Beaumont, go there. 3rd and 4th years are what really matters in med school (despite what people on this board believe), and Beaumont has always been a top place to work.

Secondly to actually account for the OP's first points, as my username suggests, I go to a school that's 100+ years old, and there's been no shortage of experimentation. There are always new clinical sites, new classes, new lecturers, etc being added every year. It's not to the extent of a place like Commonwealth, where they're basically working from scratch, but just because you're going to an established program doesn't mean that you won't be the victim of experimentation.

I don't get the whole cheerleading for one's schools that we see in this thread. I've rotated with a number of PCOM students. Some were outstanding. Some were questionable at best. (and of course I can say the same thing for anyone from my own school). But really, are you THAT insulted? If a Penn student started bashing Jefferson in this thread would my blood boil? Probably not because Penn has a more solid reputation for a reason. If I had a better MCAT, I'd have chosen Penn over Jeff in a heartbeat.

As for the DO vs new MD debate: You just have to ask yourself what's a bigger pain, being a guinea pig, or having to deal with both the COMLEX and USMLE. Neither are THAT big a pain. I think I'd personally choose a place like Commonwealth over PCOM, UCF over any of the Florida DOs and certainly would choose Oakland over MSUCOM... but that's mostly a matter of opinion (unlike Carib vs DO... you'd be stupid to choose the former over the latter)

 

[mtbtx]

I think I'd personally choose a place like Commonwealth over PCOM, UCF over any of the Florida DOs and certainly would choose Oakland over MSUCOM... but is that such an insult>

I didn't think so 😴

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

I've seen a lot of pre-meds around here saying "impressive match list" often, but I believe they are basing that on the number of specialty matches, and not on the type of program. I've been trying to learn about this process recently, and have compared match lists of varying MD and DO programs. My conclusion so far is that IF a DO matches to a super competitive specialty (ohptho, ent, plastics, rad onc, neurosurg, urology) it is often only 1 or 2 in a class of over 200 and it is a DO residency program. Students at some of the top DO schools have good chances at matching large academic ACGME internal medicine and family practice residencies. DOs are also increasingly finding places in ER, diagnostic radiology, OB-GYN, anesthesiology, and psychiatry programs. These tend to be a mix of DO or community-based MD programs.

The problem with match lists is that they don't tell you where the student ranked the program that they matched at. Sure, you may have matched in radiology but if you matched at your 15th ranked program instead of one of your top choices, that's a bit more telling...

Of course, I don't really have much experience with reading these lists, so I could be completely wrong. The sense I get is that match lists, at best, provide you with incomplete information that's not really good enough to draw valid conclusions from.

 

[fahimaz7]

The problem with match lists is that they don't tell you where the student ranked the program that they matched at. Sure, you may have matched in radiology but if you matched at your 15th ranked program instead of one of your top choices, that's a bit more telling...

Of course, I don't really have much experience with reading these lists, so I could be completely wrong. The sense I get is that match lists, at best, provide you with incomplete information that's not really good enough to draw valid conclusions from.

You are wrong. Matching into radiology is a hell of an accomplishment. If you're not a very good student, you won't match into radiology, b/c they won't give you the time of day.

 

[willen101383]

I didn't think so 😴

Its not insulting to pick a brand spankin new program over PCOM...to each their own. I would personally never think of doing this.

I went to a brand new masters program at a major university....and the program was a complete mess.

Sure you will get your coveted MD...but know that you may be in for a rough ride because that program isnt going to have all the issues ironed out like a DO program that has been around for 111 years.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

I would attend if I had no other MD choice. I would attend it over attending any DO school.

I wouldn't attend DO schools as I don't agree with their philosophy and have no intention of learning OMM, and particular, the subset of OMM which includes sham treatments like cranial.

 

[WingedOx]

You are wrong. Matching into radiology is a hell of an accomplishment. If you're not a very good student, you won't match into radiology, b/c they won't give you the time of day.

that still doesn't address his point. Sure rads is tough to get into, but there's a pretty wide range of programs out there from top academic centers to community programs in not so desirable centers. Match lists don't tell you about the student... if they underperformed, overperformed, whatever.

 

[willen101383]

I would attend if I had no other MD choice. I would attend it over attending any DO school.

Because your goal is research IIRC. It fits your goals and thats fine. DO schools arent big on research as we all know.

 

[slowbutsteady]

I too sir agree with you.

I dont have a problem with the fact that its harder to get a MD residency. Its an MD residency.....you need to cater to your own first.

However when the bias is based on the belief that MD students make superior physicians...it pisses me off

Dude, get a grip, this is an internet forum, it's not personal.

 

[willen101383]

Dude, get a grip, this is an internet forum, it's not personal.

Hi welcome to the thread! Glad you made such a great contribution!

 

[willen101383]

I would attend if I had no other MD choice. I would attend it over attending any DO school.

I wouldn't attend DO schools as I don't agree with their philosophy and have no intention of learning OMM, and particular, the subset of OMM which includes sham treatments like cranial.

Didnt we already take care of this issue in another thread? Cranial isnt like the essence of what you learn in DO school. Its like perhaps one hour of instruction...and pretty much everyone I know discounts it as BS as well.

What part of the DO philosophy do you not agree with j/w?

 

[mtbtx]

Its not insulting to pick a brand spankin new program over PCOM...to each their own. I would personally never think of doing this.

I went to a brand new masters program at a major university....and the program was a complete mess.

Sure you will get your coveted MD...but know that you may be in for a rough ride because that program isnt going to have all the issues ironed out like a DO program that has been around for 111 years.

Good persuasive argument... Oh wait, the OP never asked us to compare a new medical school and a "DO program that has been around for 111 years". Maybe the OP should apply to PCOM in the next cycle so that he can make this decision next year. Somehow you took a general comparison of new MD vs. DO as a personal attack on your great, historic DO school.

 

[mtbtx]

Didnt we already take care of this issue in another thread? Cranial isnt like the essence of what you learn in DO school. Its like perhaps one hour of instruction...and pretty much everyone I know discounts it as BS as well.

That's an hour of instruction you could be getting covering something worthwhile. What other facets of the DO curriculum are you unsatisfied with?

 

[willen101383]

Good persuasive argument... Oh wait, the OP never asked us to compare a new medical school and a "DO program that has been around for 111 years". Maybe the OP should apply to PCOM in the next cycle so that he can make this decision next year. Somehow you took a general comparison of new MD vs. DO as a personal attack on your great, historic DO school.

Oh...I didnt realize I was still talking to you. Why dont you spend your time tonight doing a little research to clear up some of your misconceptions as opposed to trying to make me feel bad. This whole thread turned into a pissing contest because of your misconceptions.

However, I must have forgotten that on SDN the word of the premed trumps people that have been around longer and have done the requisite research.

 

[willen101383]

That's an hour of instruction you could be getting covering something worthwhile. What other facets of the DO curriculum are you unsatisfied with?

There is like zero different between the curriculum at my school and most MD schools save for OMM.

Again, study up young buck. Youve got a lot to learn.

 

[mtbtx]

There is like zero different between the curriculum at my school and most MD schools save for OMM.

Again, study up young buck. Youve got a lot to learn.

All I care about is getting a residency.

Looks like senior MD applicants have an acceptance rate of 93.3% for 2010 while all others (Canadian, Caribbean and Osteo) have an acceptance rate of about 60%. Obviously Caribbean would skew these results, so I looked up acceptance rates of Osteo applicants into AOA residencies: looks like its about 82%. The most surprising thing to me is how results from NMRP show a relatively stable acceptance rate of about 92-94% while the AOA statistics show a sharp decline.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf (page 12/13)

https://www.do-online.org/files/lcl_optirepmatch.pdf

 

[willen101383]

All I care about is getting a residency.

Looks like senior MD applicants have an acceptance rate of 93.3% for 2010 while all others (Canadian, Caribbean and Osteo) have an acceptance rate of about 60%. Obviously Caribbean would skew these results, so I looked up acceptance rates of Osteo applicants into AOA residencies: looks like its about 82%. The most surprising thing to me is how results from NMRP show a relatively stable acceptance rate of about 92-94% while the AOA statistics show a sharp decline.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf (page 12/13)

https://www.do-online.org/files/lcl_optirepmatch.pdf

I am actually impressed you did a little research. While I dont really know the exact details of the match process becuase I am a few years away from that still... , I assure you the DO match results are nowhere near 60 percent. Maybe someone else who has more knowledge on this can post...but I know that those figures dont account for people who matched to a ACGME. As in...if you matched ACGME you wouldnt be counted as matched under the AOA match...etc. It also doesnt account for students who entered into agreements outside of the match/ scrambling.

Nobody is going to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to a med school if the match rate is like 60 percent.

 

[mtbtx]

I am actually impressed you did a little research. While I dont really know the exact details of the match process becuase I am a few years away from that still... , I assure you the DO match results are nowhere near 60 percent. Maybe someone else who has more knowledge on this can post...but I know that those figures dont account for people who matched to a ACGME. As in...if you matched ACGME you wouldnt be counted as matched under the AOA match...etc. It also doesnt account for students who entered into agreements outside of the match/ scrambling.

Nobody is going to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to a med school if the match rate is like 60 percent.

I agree with you that the 60% on the NMRP stats is misleading and probably not very telling of anything. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if 93.3% of allopathic seniors got residencies, does that mean only 6.7% of residencies went to Canadian, Carib and osteo students? This would lead me to believe that there aren't many applicants from this group of students if their acceptance rate is 60%. I've also heard that DO schools are accepting more students. I couldn't find any information to back this up. Is this true, and if so, does this explain why there is a general downward trend in DO residency matches, or is there some other factor that explains this?

To the OP: If I were in your shoes I would do more research and attempt to make an educated decision on which school (DO or new MD) would give you the best chance at matching for a residency. It would take some time, which is why I'm not going to do it, but you could look at the match rates for past first year MD schools and compare to school-specific stats for whichever DO schools you've gotten into. It would be circumstantial evidence but at least you would have something less subjective to base your decision off of.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

You are wrong. Matching into radiology is a hell of an accomplishment. If you're not a very good student, you won't match into radiology, b/c they won't give you the time of day.

I don't think it matters that rads is tough to match into if you're matching into a place towards the bottom of your rank list. Matching into a community program in an undesirable location would, I would imagine, hurt your chances of pursuing fellowships, etc (I'm thinking more of IM here than rads).

that still doesn't address his point. Sure rads is tough to get into, but there's a pretty wide range of programs out there from top academic centers to community programs in not so desirable centers. Match lists don't tell you about the student... if they underperformed, overperformed, whatever.

👍

 

[gravitywave]

I agree with you that the 60% on the NMRP stats is misleading and probably not very telling of anything. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if 93.3% of allopathic seniors got residencies, does that mean only 6.7% of residencies went to Canadian, Carib and osteo students?

😱 of course you're wrong. it means that 6.7% of US seniors didn't match.

US seniors were ~50% of those who applied to the NRMP match, and comprised ~67% of those who in fact matched successfully.

 

[WingedOx]

I am actually impressed you did a little research. While I dont really know the exact details of the match process becuase I am a few years away from that still... , I assure you the DO match results are nowhere near 60 percent. Maybe someone else who has more knowledge on this can post...but I know that those figures dont account for people who matched to a ACGME. As in...if you matched ACGME you wouldnt be counted as matched under the AOA match...etc. It also doesnt account for students who entered into agreements outside of the match/ scrambling.

Ah, see, this is what makes me step back a bit. People really can't judge their own schools until they've gone through rotations. First/second year students are on this board all the time describing either how their school is the greatest place ever, or how truly horrible it is (with very little in between). Hell, I was ecstatic about my experience at my school until 3rd year when I had to deal with our admin about clinical rotation issues and saw how this place works up close... the good, the bad, and the ugly, as another thread today said. In truth, one's education can be made or broken by a few individuals rathern than an entire educational structure. the three groups of people that matter most are advisers, deans, and clerkship directors. I've had great advisers, a mixed bag of clerkship directors, and deans that I've been rather dissatisfied with.

Nobody is going to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to a med school if the match rate is like 60 percent.

tell that to the thousands of students who flock to the islands.

 

[fahimaz7]

Its not insulting to pick a brand spankin new program over PCOM...to each their own. I would personally never think of doing this.

I went to a brand new masters program at a major university....and the program was a complete mess.

Sure you will get your coveted MD...but know that you may be in for a rough ride because that program isnt going to have all the issues ironed out like a DO program that has been around for 111 years.

Did you really just compare some random university's master's program to a LCME accredited medical school? lol.

 

[fahimaz7]

I don't think it matters that rads is tough to match into if you're matching into a place towards the bottom of your rank list. Matching into a community program in an undesirable location would, I would imagine, hurt your chances of pursuing fellowships, etc (I'm thinking more of IM here than rads).


👍

Of course the location is going to matter for fellowships. That wasn't what the post was about. Coming from Jo blow community hospital in IM (where there's 2 other residents and 100 beds) isn't going to get you into that prestigious interventional cards fellowship.

You know what it does do for the radiology guy? It gets him about $500,000/year in almost every state in the country.

 

[willen101383]

Did you really just compare some random university's master's program to a LCME accredited medical school? lol.

The school is a MD medical school...but thanks for taking the opportunity to try to make fun of me...you failed.

Stop being an asshat...its clear you have some DO bias as well.

If you think some brand new medical school is going to have all the issues ironed out you are sadly mistaken.

 

[willen101383]

Welcome to SDN! Nice first post!

^^Dont jump to conclusions about my MD rejection because it doesnt exist 🙂 How about you consider the fact that I am 1. engaged and my fiance has a stable career 2. I own a house 3. I liked my school enough to go there and deal with any DO bias over an MD school. I am not going to uproot my "family" and sell my house for some premed perceived stigma.

That being said...most recent DO grads dont really feel any ideological difference because there really isnt one anymore. I dont at all. Will I use OMM? Doubtful. Is it good for certain things...sure...but I dont see myself doing ortho or primary care or PM&R. The OMM "time sink" at my school is something like 2 hours per week...and I typically dont go to lecture so it would be about 1 hour a week for me...vs over 30 hours for traditional med school coursework.

I liked the school enough to not care about any stigma that may exist. End of story.

This thread is really pointless. There are several people here who have some strange anti DO agenda to advance...and I am through feeding into it. Good luck all on your premed requirements, and those who are in med school...good luck to you too. I am sure you guys will make really great, albeit arrogant as fck, docs some day.

 

[fahimaz7]

The school is a MD medical school...but thanks for taking the opportunity to try to make fun of me...you failed.

Stop being an asshat...its clear you have some DO bias as well.

If you think some brand new medical school is going to have all the issues ironed out you are sadly mistaken.

I can't take you seriously anymore. You are a complete joke on this thread, and you are giving your classmates a bad reputation. Just quit before you make yourself look any worse.

Here's a fact:

I attend a school that was founded in 1828 and is the 13th oldest medical school in the country.

Do I care what people say? No.
Do I think that we have everything worked out? No.
Are we constantly changing our curriculum ever 2-3 years? Yes
Did we just establish a satellite campus with an ENTIRELY new curriculum? Yes.
Will that matter? No.
Does the LCME dictate what has to be taught before 3rd year? Yes
Does your masters program have the same restriction? No
Does every masters degree have their own curriculum? Yes
Are you a sensitive little internet kid that needs to grow up? Yes
Would you have gone MD if you could have? I bet so! Why? You try too damn hard to talk up your program.

Give it up already. Go get some counseling to get over the notion that everyone is talking bad about what you have done/are doing.

PS. A master's degree in a science field is a complete joke. It's worthless. How do I know that? I have one.

 

[mvenus929]

I stopped reading the thread after they started arguing DO vs MD again.

I would not go to a brand new medical school (and hence did not apply to any of them). But, I am going to a school that completely overhauled the basic science curriculum. And my class is the guinea pig class. Was I apprehensive about it? Yes, but considering my options, I knew I'd enjoy my time and probably do better coming to my school than the other school I was accepted to.

Why do I see them as different? Because residency directors know what to expect out of students from my school, and the clinical training won't change with my class. In fact, we'll be getting more of it than previous years. The basic sciences are what you make out of them... if you really want to do well on Step 1... it's up to you, not your professors. Clinical rotations are much more important, because you have less control over the quality of your experience (if you go to a hospital where med students don't participate in procedures, for instance).

 

[willen101383]

I can't take you seriously anymore. You are a complete joke on this thread, and you are giving your classmates a bad reputation. Just quit before you make yourself look any worse.

Here's a fact:

I attend a school that was founded in 1828 and is the 13th oldest medical school in the country.

Do I care what people say? No.
Do I think that we have everything worked out? No.
Are we constantly changing our curriculum ever 2-3 years? Yes
Did we just establish a satellite campus with an ENTIRELY new curriculum? Yes.
Will that matter? No.
Does the LCME dictate what has to be taught before 3rd year? Yes
Does your masters program have the same restriction? No
Does every masters degree have their own curriculum? Yes
Are you a sensitive little internet kid that needs to grow up? Yes
Would you have gone MD if you could have? I bet so! Why? You try too damn hard to talk up your program.

Give it up already. Go get some counseling to get over the notion that everyone is talking bad about what you have done/are doing.

PS. A master's degree in a science field is a complete joke. It's worthless. How do I know that? I have one.

Haha the only thing of value/truth you said in your post was that science masters are worthless...I will give you that.

PS. internet "kid"? LOL nice

Dude, you obviously have some issues with being some sort of e tough guy...and I am sure you are a nice person in real life who doesnt try to act tough to people in person, but I do wish you good luck in school and am sure you too will be a great doc

 

[WingedOx]

If you think some brand new medical school is going to have all the issues ironed out you are sadly mistaken.

you're really enjoy laying strawmen, don't you? For someone who is still an underclassman, who hasn't taken boards, hasn't done a clinical rotation, hasn't applied to residency, you certainly are defensive.

 

[fahimaz7]

you really dont know whats up...Thats complete bull****.

Continue to make ignorant statements premed. Your immaturity shines through.

...I have absolutely no issues with my school.

Because pre meds are such "hot ****" that they are unwilling to be swayed.

that person holds insane misconceptions and makes completely uneducated statements. At any rate this thread is over for me.

No its fine....this **** just enrages me and sometimes I say things that I realize are stupid in retrospect.

Elitist snobs like to be amongst their own anyway.

Oh...I didnt realize I was still talking to you. Why dont you spend your time tonight doing a little research to clear up some of your misconceptions as opposed to trying to make me feel bad. This whole thread turned into a pissing contest because of your misconceptions.
However, I must have forgotten that on SDN the word of the premed trumps people that have been around longer and have done the requisite research.

Again, study up young buck. Youve got a lot to learn.

I am actually impressed you did a little research.

Stop being an asshat...its clear you have some DO bias as well. If you think some brand new medical school is going to have all the issues ironed out you are sadly mistaken.

I am sure you guys will make really great, albeit arrogant as fck, docs some day.

Dude, you obviously have some issues with being some sort of e tough guy...

I like this one.

You people are planning on going to medical school yet you cant understand the fact that talking down about others schools is rude? Wow. completely out of line and immature

The last one is my favorite. The only thing that you have done on this thread is get hyperemotional when someone says that they would rather go to a new MD school than a DO school. When anyone tries to tell you why, you call them names, talk down to them, and use excessive profanity to try and get your point across. You've also "quit this thread" 3 different times.

Thanks for trying to call me an ethug. I really apprecaite that.

What I find funny is that you have said (in a previous thread)

"willen101383
Junior Member

Holy ****. Stop grouping every DO school together. Its really ridiculous to make broad sweeping statements which are largely untrue. I will be the first one to say that there are several DO schools I would NEVER attend."

When was this thread ever about your precious school?

And finally, you started medical school 4 months ago. When did you become such an enlightened medical student? When did you all of a sudden get granted some divine power, that made you so much more educated than you were 4 months ago?

 

[Elpenor]

Hey! My name is Aaron, I am going into my junior year at a small state school in Cortland NY. I hate my school, it is definately not the place for premeds to be but i had no idea i wanted medicine when i began going there. My GPA is way lower then it needs to be, and I am hopefully going to pull it up a lot this year. I was thinking about DO school, mostly because its a little easier to get into, but I am worried about the prestige issues, and patients not knowing what a DO is. Yes i know that DO=MD essentially. I am active on campus,and I am working as a phlebotomist at 2 hospitals in the Albany NY area right now...so i have patient contact...almost too much to handle! My father is an hemotologist/oncologist. If i applied to his medical school would that even have a bearing on things? I had a patient today that was telling me her son went to MD in Ireland. Do schools over there accept American students pretty easily compared with here in the states? How about obtaining a residency in the US after goin to a foreign school? Of course i would much rather go to a medical school here in the states, but I will go where i need to. Medicine is my calling, I love coming to work every day, and dealing with the patients!! I know these are newbie questions, but as MCAT time grows near I am starting to worry and think more about the future!!! Thanks guys!

.

 

[fahimaz7]

.

Old 07-22-2004, 12:15 PM
willen101383

i have around a 3.1gpa right now....this is my first semester in bio stuff...i was a history major before. This GPA is obviously low even by DO school standards. I have mostly Bs and B+ with one or two bad grades lowering it. I plan on taking calculus over, as well as gen chem 1. I have no problem with DO school honestly, I would rather just have an MD. I agree with the osteopathic principles, but feel that i would just abandon them if i secured an MD residency.

 

[willen101383]

Old 07-22-2004, 12:15 PM
willen101383

i have around a 3.1gpa right now....this is my first semester in bio stuff...i was a history major before. This GPA is obviously low even by DO school standards. I have mostly Bs and B+ with one or two bad grades lowering it. I plan on taking calculus over, as well as gen chem 1. I have no problem with DO school honestly, I would rather just have an MD. I agree with the osteopathic principles, but feel that i would just abandon them if i secured an MD residency.

OOO wow you discovered a post when? Ohh right when I was in college 6 years ago. Good find detective fahimaz7. Now who looks like an *******. I had no intent of seriously going to med school...I was just testing the waters to see if it would be practical and honestly didnt have the grades. That changed after grad school however.

BTW tough guy...did I ever say I was some DO philosophy/OMM nut? Nah...I probobly will never use it.

Enjoy your nite researching my old posts Scott, I have studying to do.

 

[willen101383]

.

HAHA its amazing how a little maturity and drive can change a person. Thanks for posting that so I can A. laugh at the fact that your life is so meaningless that you had to jump on the bandwagon and B. I could reaffirm all the hard work I have put into my career. BTW Who are you again?

 

[fahimaz7]

OOO wow you discovered a post when? Ohh right when I was in college 6 years ago. Good find detective fahimaz7. Now who looks like an *******. I had no intent of going to med school and honestly didnt have the grades. That changed after grad school.


Enjoy your nite researching my old posts Scott, I have studying to do.

So you once felt the same way that they did? Only to find out that you didn't have the grades to get into a MD program? Now you come back, 6 years after that initial realization and 4 months into medical school, only to get defensive about your school? A school that was never even mentioned at any time by someone in this thread?

At any rate this thread is over for me.

Posted by you about 20 replies ago

Trust me...you are sadly mistaken if I care what some kid just out of mommy and daddys house thinks about me or my school.

Posted by you while you were blatantly attacking premed students for voicing their own personal preference.

________________________________
You know this is a good thread when..

1. A poster keeps saying that they are finished with the thread--only to return
2. You get someone to find a post that has your name in it
3. You get private messages from lurkers telling you that you forgot to link the best comment. (#3 above)

 

[fahimaz7]

HAHA its amazing how a little maturity and drive can change a person. Thanks for posting that so I can A. laugh at the fact that your life is so meaningless

Dude, you obviously have some issues with being some sort of e tough guy

Take a look in the mirror man. No one cares what school you go to. They are watching this thread because you continue to belittle people, while calling people ethugs and such. If you went to JHU and were posting this crap, we would continue to try and point you in the right direction.

One of the mods needs to..

1. Lock this thread
2. Put some people in time-out for making personal attacks such as "your life is so meaningless"

 

[MilkmanAl]

No time out yet, but let's all get along, shall we? No more personal BS, lest ye take a beating with the banstick. Let's get this train back on track.

To actually answer the OP's question: After seeing how many problems UAMS had still in the third year of implementing their systems-based curriculum, my answer is a resounding "Hell no." If you have the choice, go somewhere that has an established curriculum and isn't still tinkering around. It'll save you a ton of headaches.

 

[mtbtx]

No time out yet, but let's all get along, shall we? No more personal BS, lest ye take a beating with the banstick. Let's get this train back on track.

To actually answer the OP's question: After seeing how many problems UAMS had still in the third year of implementing their systems-based curriculum, my answer is a resounding "Hell no." If you have the choice, go somewhere that has an established curriculum and isn't still tinkering around. It'll save you a ton of headaches.

Good contribution 👍

 

[jskinny21]

i believe we are talkin about OUWB here and i think that it kind of is a different ball game than most new schools. beaumont is an extremely established instituiton that has almost 60 years of medical education. They have a really large residency class each year and have also been training medical students from the four state schools in MI. So its not like the school is going to be be new to clinical training they are just going to be concentrating on their own school and their own med students instead of U of M or WSU students. I also think that the fact that they have an extremely large patient base and some of the best medical technology will allow the clinical training to be top notch.

The problem is the curriculum as i hear it is not completely set in stone right now and that is a little scary along with the slightly small facilities.

and to the topic creator where did you hear that they were not going to be giving scholarships? Everything i have heard is that there is going to be a large number of at least partial scholarships along with those 4th year research project scholarships