Would you fire someone for this?

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SeattleRDH

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What would you do if you found out that your dental assistant of 3 years lied on her application about graduating high school and did not even have a GED? Grounds for termination?

What about the other dental assistant (of 1.5 years) who threw her under the bus because she was jealous that they made the same amount of money?

Oh the joys of managing staff.....
 
What would you do if you found out that your dental assistant of 3 years lied on her application about graduating high school and did not even have a GED? Grounds for termination?

What about the other dental assistant (of 1.5 years) who threw her under the bus because she was jealous that they made the same amount of money?

Oh the joys of managing staff.....

I would not fire her if she does good work. However, I would require that she enroll in a GED course to make good on her GED claim. As for the one who threw the other under the bus... sounds like she is having personal issues if she is worried about the other girls' pay. If they both do good work, they should both be paid equally. 👍
 
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What would you do if you found out that your dental assistant of 3 years lied on her application about graduating high school and did not even have a GED? Grounds for termination?

What about the other dental assistant (of 1.5 years) who threw her under the bus because she was jealous that they made the same amount of money?

Oh the joys of managing staff.....

I probably would consider termination of the employee who lied on her resume. Then again, if you have had a great relationship with her for 3 years, that is a consideration as high-school or GED is not required to be a good dental assistant.

Some offices, however, work by natural selection. Dentists get so disenchanted by staff management that they just let them fight it out and let the "fittest" survive 😉.
 
What about the other dental assistant (of 1.5 years) who threw her under the bus because she was jealous that they made the same amount of money?

How did "the other dental assistant" find out the first dental assistant? That in itself could be an issue.

Is there a documented requirement for a HS diploma or GED in the job description for a dental assistant?

If your dental assistants are not very discrete in general, you could have HIPAA issues as well.

You could have bigger problems than you think. You may need legal advice before you proceed.
 
I would consider firing them both... one for lying and the other for being a jealous drama queen.

Then on second thought... if the assistant of 3 years has been doing a good job, I might pay her more, and get the jealous assistant to quit so she can't file for unemployment. Jealousy in the office causes many issues.
 
Lets see.

Dental Assistant #1 - if she lied about not graduating high school then chances are that she was hired having not completed a CDA program and you trained her yourself. If she's a GOOD assistant, then she'd stay employed in my book since the hassels of finding another GOOD assistant would far outweigh what she did in my book. If I had some thoughts all along about firing her because she wasn't working out, well then that's likely more than enough reason for me to fire her. Either way I would let her know that I'm putting a write up about this in her file.

Dental Assistant #2 - sounds like based on the description that she could very well be the source of some generalized office tension. She would get called into my office (with either my office manager or some other female in my office with me) and told that her behavior is inappropriate and that ultimately what I choose to pay my employees is based on performance. I would let her know that I am putting a write up about this in her file. I would also tell her that she needs to get past this and have it NOT affect her behavior both with the other staff members and infront of patients. If she can't get past this and it affects her job performance than she will likely need to look for another job in the future.

Chances are that atleast one of these 2 assisants WON'T be working at the office a year from now. One may be fired, one may quit, they both might not be there. The reality is, and it took me a a good 5 years or so to realize this is that one "bad apple" can have a very big effect on office morale and that can ad needless stress to your day. If you see a problem employee, and after having brought the issue(s) to his/her attention they don't change, than as tough as it may be for some to do as the boss, you will more than likely be much better off (and so will the rest of your office staff) if you fire that person (or in the case of my office about 4 years ago PERSONS ) that are causing the problem(s).

Also in this case, you're talking about assistants where they don't necessarily have to have a high school diploma to be an assistant. If this was a hygienist, where that diploma is needed by just about every hygiene school out there, well then that would be a TOTALLY different issue
 
A couple of things I learned in private practice, 1) good help is hard to find 2) drama in the office will bring down an office.

I would consider firing them both... one for lying and the other for being a jealous drama queen.

Then on second thought... if the assistant of 3 years has been doing a good job, I might pay her more, and get the jealous assistant to quit so she can't file for unemployment. Jealousy in the office causes many issues.

Agree 100% with these!!
 
I would consider firing them both... one for lying and the other for being a jealous drama queen.

Then on second thought... if the assistant of 3 years has been doing a good job, I might pay her more, and get the jealous assistant to quit so she can't file for unemployment. Jealousy in the office causes many issues.
I agree. Office drama is exhausting!

As a hygienist it is very difficult to work with a jealous dental assistant. When a CDA is envious of the higher pay of an RDH they don't want to help if the RDH is in a jam. It doesn't make sense to have this attitude. Every patient that walks through that door is the practices patients not the hygienists. On the flip side, there is no place for a prima donna hygienist either.

If it were me I would replace them both. You can't trust DA #1 and you can't get along with DA #2. (DA #2 is an excellent chairside too 🙁)
 
CDA are a PITA. They think they deserve higher pay because they can pass the class despite their real life performance, similar to those *****ic OWJ occupiers who think they deserve a job. If you're not required by law to have a CDA, then get anybody, especially those from the Philipines or China, for half the price and half soap opera.
 
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Thread should be closed because good advice already given from both peg lateral and DrJeff 😛
 
Take them both at the same time, sit them down side by side in your office and call them out on their childish ways. Tell them that you aren't going to put up with drama like this in your office. Tell the girl without the GED to go get one in a year's time or she has to leave as she lied on her application.
 
What would you do if you found out that your dental assistant of 3 years lied on her application about graduating high school and did not even have a GED? Grounds for termination?

What about the other dental assistant (of 1.5 years) who threw her under the bus because she was jealous that they made the same amount of money?

Oh the joys of managing staff.....
I don't know, but I WILL fire any staff revealing sensitive personnel info on an online forum.
 
Lets see.

Dental Assistant #1 - if she lied about not graduating high school then chances are that she was hired having not completed a CDA program and you trained her yourself. If she's a GOOD assistant, then she'd stay employed in my book since the hassels of finding another GOOD assistant would far outweigh what she did in my book. If I had some thoughts all along about firing her because she wasn't working out, well then that's likely more than enough reason for me to fire her. Either way I would let her know that I'm putting a write up about this in her file.

Dental Assistant #2 - sounds like based on the description that she could very well be the source of some generalized office tension. She would get called into my office (with either my office manager or some other female in my office with me) and told that her behavior is inappropriate and that ultimately what I choose to pay my employees is based on performance. I would let her know that I am putting a write up about this in her file. I would also tell her that she needs to get past this and have it NOT affect her behavior both with the other staff members and infront of patients. If she can't get past this and it affects her job performance than she will likely need to look for another job in the future.

Chances are that atleast one of these 2 assisants WON'T be working at the office a year from now. One may be fired, one may quit, they both might not be there. The reality is, and it took me a a good 5 years or so to realize this is that one "bad apple" can have a very big effect on office morale and that can ad needless stress to your day. If you see a problem employee, and after having brought the issue(s) to his/her attention they don't change, than as tough as it may be for some to do as the boss, you will more than likely be much better off (and so will the rest of your office staff) if you fire that person (or in the case of my office about 4 years ago PERSONS ) that are causing the problem(s).

Also in this case, you're talking about assistants where they don't necessarily have to have a high school diploma to be an assistant. If this was a hygienist, where that diploma is needed by just about every hygiene school out there, well then that would be a TOTALLY different issue

Dr. Jeff, have you ever had to let somebody go (i.e. fire them) from your practice? If so, what was it like (what did they do that made you fire them, and how did you approach it, what was their reaction, etc...). I ask because this is a part of being a practice owner that nobody likes, but every dentist eventually has to endure and face.

I just want to hear how an experienced and successful dentist as yourself has handled such situations in the past.
 
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I would fire them both. Both of them sound irresponsible. Responsibility is vital in medicine.
Also: if one person lies about something than you cannot be certain that she doesn't lie about anything else.
I wouldn't be able to trust them to do their job properly.
 
What would you do if you found out that your dental assistant of 3 years lied on her application about graduating high school and did not even have a GED? Grounds for termination?

What about the other dental assistant (of 1.5 years) who threw her under the bus because she was jealous that they made the same amount of money?

Oh the joys of managing staff.....

Am I missing something here? Why is the DA of 1.5 years mad that they're earning the same amount as someone who has been working for you for a longer period? Shouldn't she be happy shes making as much as someone who has worked longer than her? Or is she concerned that there is not much room for growth and a raise?
 
Am I missing something here? Why is the DA of 1.5 years mad that they're earning the same amount as someone who has been working for you for a longer period? Shouldn't she be happy shes making as much as someone who has worked longer than her? Or is she concerned that there is not much room for growth and a raise?
It's the difference in education that is her complaint. She went to school and is a CDA. The other was trained on the job.
 
Dr. Jeff, have you ever had to let somebody go (i.e. fire them) from your practice? If so, what was it like (what did they do that made you fire them, and how did you approach it, what was their reaction, etc...). I ask because this is a part of being a practice owner that nobody likes, but every dentist eventually has to endure and face.

I just want to hear how an experienced and successful dentist as yourself has handled such situations in the past.

I can't remember if it's been 5 or 6 people over the 10+ years that I've been at my practice that I've had to fire (some of the names and faces of some of my former staff just blend together after a bunch of years 😉 ).

As for the reasons why. That varied from staff interaction issues, to repeated failure to perform the defined tasks associated with that persons job, to the age old "it's just not working out for you here" reason. Its has also been for front desk staff, assistants, and even a hygienist. Some of them were long time employees (over 10 years in 1 case) some where employed at my practice for only a few months, and in 1 instance my business partner and I even fired 2 people in my front desk the same day.

I will say that I've never once enjoyed having to fire an employee, and it hasn't been easy for me to do (generally if my partner and I were going to fire someone, its been a process that had been building for months, and as such had been putting extra stress on the entire office, and when the decision to fire that employee had been reached by my partner and I, I have felt a great deal of anxiety in what is usually the few hours to maybe a day until we sat that person down and fired them.

Most of the time, their reaction was neutral, since they knew via repeated warnings of job performance issues that them being fired was a distinct possibility, so it wasn't really a shock to them. Once or twice there was a total emotional meltdown on the former employees part. And as crazy as it sounds, one time the person was actually HAPPY that they had just been fired 😕 (that reaction had me and my business partner kind of scratching our heads after wondering if both of us had just had the same feeling that the former employee was happy about being fired)

In the end though I can say with 100% certainty that once that initial emotion associated with the events that built up to the firing and then the actual firing itself, I haven't second guessed any of those descisions and the overall office environment has gotten better. And that's the most important part in my book, the best overall office environment that I can have!
 
Am I missing something here? Why is the DA of 1.5 years mad that they're earning the same amount as someone who has been working for you for a longer period? Shouldn't she be happy shes making as much as someone who has worked longer than her? Or is she concerned that there is not much room for growth and a raise?

The best thing that my office did about a year ago to deal with the B.S. often associated with raises (for whom and for how much, etc) was institute a monthly bonus plan for the entire office that is based on total office collections. If the office collects above amount A the previous month, everyone gets bonus $A. If they collect above amount B, everyone gets bonus $B. This has bascially totally reinforced the concept that the whole office has to work together to keep the schedule full and patients paying and has reinforced the concept that what they do in the office can (and has) had a direct, tangible effect on how much $$ they're bringing home every month. Since we started this, there hasn't been any rumbling about raises, etc and with the bonus checks potentially coming every month, the entire staff is regularly reminded about how the day to day effort they put in "pays off" (both literally and figuratively) for them.
 
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