Would you give up a DO acceptance to do an SMP and re-apply MD?

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MedChic

MedChic

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Hey guys,
Please don't flame me for asking this question, because I truly believe MD=DO, but it IS harder to gain entry into a super-competitive allo specialty with a DO as opposed to MD.
This is NOT an MD vs. DO thread and I'm posting it here because I want opinions from those who are leaning towards the MD.
I was speaking to my physician and I mentioned that I am considering going to osteopathic school. After telling him about my personal statistics, he basically advised me to do an SMP and re-apply to MD schools because he thought I was a borderline candidate at this point and if I applied to schools after an SMP I would probably have a good chance to gain entry into an allo school.

Here's the thing: I graduated 1 year ago so taking an extra yr off would put me a little more behind. I really want to start my career but at the same time I really want a good shot at some of the more competitive specialties.

So do you think I should risk it with the SMP?
 
This has been asked before and I believe the consensus was that it's a really, really bad idea. Why did you even apply to a school you didn't want to go to? That is the question all schools will ask when you reapply the next year. Chances are, you won't even get a chance to answer it, since they'll just skip over you for an interview.
 
yes, i think you should go that route. 👍 i mean think about it...would you be happy with a DO for the rest of your life? or will you ask "what if"?
 
Kthanksbye said:
This has been asked before and I believe the consensus was that it's a really, really bad idea. Why did you even apply to a school you didn't want to go to? That is the question all schools will ask when you reapply the next year. Chances are, you won't even get a chance to answer it, since they'll just skip over you for an interview.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I'm being repetitive; I did a search but it keeps freezing on me

It's not that I didn't want to continue with DO; it's just that I didn't know it would be impossible to gain entry into certain specialties. I heard it was hard before but my doc basically told me "forget about ophomology, anesthesia, derm"

I may end up wanting to be a family practice doc, but I also want a shot at specialties if I fall in love with one. I don't want to kick myself during my 3rd and 4th year knowing I want to do something, and I may not get it due to my degree...
 
do it if you thats what you want, but from what i've read around here (<---my disclaimer), don't bother reapplying to those DO schools again.
 
Personally I wouldn't.

SMPs are a last ditch plan, if you screw up don't plan on being able to get into med school, period. There was a thread about a guy who got a 3.0 or something around that in a SMP and he couldn't get into carribean schools.

Take the DO and start studying for the Step1 now instead.
 
MedChic said:
Sorry if I'm being repetitive; I did a search but it keeps freezing on me

It's not that I didn't want to continue with DO; it's just that I didn't know it would be impossible to gain entry into certain specialties. I heard it was hard before but my doc basically told me "forget about ophomology, anesthesia, derm"

I may end up wanting to be a family practice doc, but I also want a shot at specialties if I fall in love with one. I don't want to kick myself during my 3rd and 4th year knowing I want to do something, and I may not get it due to my degree...
Click to expand...

I don't really know how hard it is to get into ophthalmology as a DO, but it's not impossible. I got Lasik from a group that had a DO among them.
 
Giving up a med school acceptance to do an SMP would be the most ******ed thing you could possibly do. And the opportunities are there at any DO school to match pretty much any specialty. Its just that you're going to have to make your own connections with elective rotations. Unless you just don't think you're smart enough to get the job done.

Also, what if you didn't get into your MD school the next time around? Don't bother applying to that DO school that accepted you again, because they will tell you to go **** yourself.

No, it is not impossible to gain entry into any specialty. I am personally interested in trauma surgery, and will be attending DO school. So what I did was find a couple highly-regarded DO trauma surgeons online and e-mailed them. They have been pretty helpful. I am also going to do some volunteer work at Grady (major level I trauma center in Atlanta... if it doesn't go bankrupt and fold), and rub elbows with some of the surgeons and program directors there. I'm not worried at all. If I still want to do trauma surgery when it is time to make that decision, I think I will have put myself in a position to match at any number of strong general surgery residency programs.

The biggest mistake I made the first time around was not applying to DO schools. I had a couple MD interviews early on, and figured I'd land one of them. I just didn't know anything about DO's, and I wish I had done some more research on the matter. At this point, I am perfectly content to cancel all my MD applications as soon as I send in my deposit for GA-PCOM next week.
 
Kthanksbye said:
I don't really know how hard it is to get into ophthalmology as a DO, but it's not impossible. I got Lasik from a group that had a DO among them.
Click to expand...
A client of mine's husband is a DO opthamologist. He went to NSU in Ft. Lauderdale for med school.
 
MedChic said:
Sorry if I'm being repetitive; I did a search but it keeps freezing on me

It's not that I didn't want to continue with DO; it's just that I didn't know it would be impossible to gain entry into certain specialties. I heard it was hard before but my doc basically told me "forget about ophomology, anesthesia, derm"

I may end up wanting to be a family practice doc, but I also want a shot at specialties if I fall in love with one. I don't want to kick myself during my 3rd and 4th year knowing I want to do something, and I may not get it due to my degree...
Click to expand...


I'm guessing your doc is a MD. And let me also guess, you live in a part of the country that isn't very DO heavy. I only say this because I have heard this from some MD's as well.

I can't speak from personal experience (as I am starting med school next fall) but from what I hear is that a DO can get into any field that they try to. The key is networking, kicking butt on the boards, doing 4th year rotations there and being good at what you do and nice about when there.

I think you would have to be crazy to give up an acceptance to any school based on the words (which I hesitate to call advice) of one MD!

but that's just my two cents!
 
bigman123 said:
i think you mean OD
Click to expand...

Well, they also had an OD on hand as well. But no, I mean there was a DO ophthalmologist in the group. Maybe more than one, I don't remember. They had about four or five docs in that group. I also live in a town with a DO school, so it's more common to see them around here than it might be where there isn't a DO school nearby. I hear a lot of them end up practicing in the area after graduation.
 
MedChic said:
Hey guys,
Please don't flame me for asking this question, because I truly believe MD=DO, but it IS harder to gain entry into a super-competitive allo specialty with a DO as opposed to MD.
This is NOT an MD vs. DO thread and I'm posting it here because I want opinions from those who are leaning towards the MD.
I was speaking to my physician and I mentioned that I am considering going to osteopathic school. After telling him about my personal statistics, he basically advised me to do an SMP and re-apply to MD schools because he thought I was a borderline candidate at this point and if I applied to schools after an SMP I would probably have a good chance to gain entry into an allo school.

Here's the thing: I graduated 1 year ago so taking an extra yr off would put me a little more behind. I really want to start my career but at the same time I really want a good shot at some of the more competitive specialties.

So do you think I should risk it with the SMP?
Click to expand...

Well, the time factor isn't that big of deal. However, if you are truly not going to be happy with a DO, then I guess the choice is clear, is it not? Don't attend the osteopathic medical school in which you were accepted, if you think it won't take you to where you want to go. But consider that attending a one year SMP, which is by no means a piece of cake, and then reapplying is a lot of effort, which may not even necessarily yield the results you are looking for. Remember, there are no guarantees in the application process. You would be rolling the dice yet again and who knows what could happen. But if your heart is leading you that direction, then I wish you luck and hope that you get what you want. Nevertheless, I would probably ask more folks to evaluate you, other than that one physician. In fact, ask some admissions counselors, or directors, at allopathic medical schools, to evaluate your chances, if possible...

I think that folks exaggerate the difficulty in matching into a competitive residency as an osteopathic physician. Sure, there are some allopathic residency programs that it would probably be difficult to match into, but I wouldn't say that it is universal at all. By in large, no specialty is going to be closed to you as a DO. Honestly, I think what residency you ultimately match into is going to be more on you than the school that you choose to attend. You could attend an allopathic medical school and it may not necessarily make it easier to match into the residency that you desire, depending on a variety of factors.

Anyway, I hope you can fully stand behind whatever choice you make! 🙂
 
HrvatskiDoktor said:
I'm guessing your doc is a MD. And let me also guess, you live in a part of the country that isn't very DO heavy. I only say this because I have heard this from some MD's as well.

I can't speak from personal experience (as I am starting med school next fall) but from what I hear is that a DO can get into any field that they try to. The key is networking, kicking butt on the boards, doing 4th year rotations there and being good at what you do and nice about when there.

I think you would have to be crazy to give up an acceptance to any school based on the words (which I hesitate to call advice) of one MD!

but that's just my two cents!
Click to expand...

Yes, he is an MD and there are very few DO's around so it's def. a skewed ratio. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with connections, scores etc. but form what I heard from this guy, even someone with a DO is in the 99% on the Boards, honors grades, and great extracurriculars will not land a super coveted spot over an MD with sligthly lower stats.

I know I should get a wider perspective. I know of a DO who's an internist and is super successful, so I'm sure you don't have to have a top specialty to be happy. I just don't want to have regrets ya know?
 
MedChic said:
Yes, he is an MD and there are very few DO's around so it's def. a skewed ratio. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with connections, scores etc. but form what I heard from this guy, even someone with a DO is in the 99% on the Boards, honors grades, and great extracurriculars will not land a super coveted spot over an MD with sligthly lower stats.
Click to expand...
That's going to depend on the individual. Good recs in rotations count for a lot. And you can take the initiative to get your foot in the door at a residency program you have your eye on long before you apply for it.
 
TexasTriathlete said:
Giving up a med school acceptance to do an SMP would be the most ******ed thing you could possibly do. And the opportunities are there at any DO school to match pretty much any specialty. Its just that you're going to have to make your own connections with elective rotations. Unless you just don't think you're smart enough to get the job done.

Also, what if you didn't get into your MD school the next time around? Don't bother applying to that DO school that accepted you again, because they will tell you to go **** yourself.

No, it is not impossible to gain entry into any specialty. I am personally interested in trauma surgery, and will be attending DO school. So what I did was find a couple highly-regarded DO trauma surgeons online and e-mailed them. They have been pretty helpful. I am also going to do some volunteer work at Grady (major level I trauma center in Atlanta... if it doesn't go bankrupt and fold), and rub elbows with some of the surgeons and program directors there. I'm not worried at all. If I still want to do trauma surgery when it is time to make that decision, I think I will have put myself in a position to match at any number of strong general surgery residency programs.

The biggest mistake I made the first time around was not applying to DO schools. I had a couple MD interviews early on, and figured I'd land one of them. I just didn't know anything about DO's, and I wish I had done some more research on the matter. At this point, I am perfectly content to cancel all my MD applications as soon as I send in my deposit for GA-PCOM next week.
Click to expand...

Yea, I know I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth or however that saying goes because I'll probably end up screwing myself.
I'm just annoyed that I can't even be excited about attending a DO school at this point, and before I was so happy to get these interviews.
For one thing, I have 2 FMG MD's in the family and they don't really know that much about DO so I should not hold this against them, but when I mentioned DO school during the holidays they smiled and nodded.
And then promptly proceeded to ask "Did you get any medical school interview yet?" Fine, whatever. I let that fly.
Then going to my doc for a regular visit and hearing I won't have a chance at a specialty merely a few days after the encounter with the fam members made me question things...
It just pisses me off that I am so easily thrown by these reactions.
 
spicedmanna said:
Well, the time factor isn't that big of deal. However, if you are truly not going to be happy with a DO, then I guess the choice is clear, is it not? Don't attend the osteopathic medical school in which you were accepted, if you think it won't take you to where you want to go. But consider that attending a one year SMP, which is by no means a piece of cake, and then reapplying is a lot of effort, which may not even necessarily yield the results you are looking for. Remember, there are no guarantees in the application process. You would be rolling the dice yet again and who knows what could happen. But if your heart is leading you that direction, then I wish you luck and hope that you get what you want. Nevertheless, I would probably ask more folks to evaluate you, other than that one physician. In fact, ask some admissions counselors, or directors, at allopathic medical schools, to evaluate your chances, if possible...

I think that folks exaggerate the difficulty in matching into a competitive residency as an osteopathic physician. Sure, there are some allopathic residency programs that it would probably be difficult to match into, but I wouldn't say that it is universal at all. By in large, no specialty is going to be closed to you as a DO. Honestly, I think what residency you ultimately match into is going to be more on you than the school that you choose to attend. You could attend an allopathic medical school and it may not necessarily make it easier to match into the residency that you desire, depending on a variety of factors.

Anyway, I hope you can fully stand behind whatever choice you make! 🙂
Click to expand...

That's a good point actually. Perhaps attending an SMP and then an allopathic program will cause a major burn-out leading me to fall behind my classmates, whereas I could jumpstart my career now and be on top of everything...not to mention the extra loans...
But then the ambitious, self-mutilating part of me is telling me to take the harder route. Maybe it's stupid but I can't help it
 
It is strange how you keep saying that you might want to be a family medicine doc or a internal medicine doc so a DO might not be so bad. If you just took the time to look at any DO matchlists you would see that plenty of them match in very competitive specialties.

I don't mean to be judgemental because I don't know you at all but the vibe I get from this thread is that you are either are very uniformed about the difficulty for DOs to get a 'specialty' or it is in fact the letters DO that bother but you don't want to admit it.
 
after reading your new posts I changed my mind-

you are suffering from talking to FMGs lol. I know how it feels.
 
Nah, just go DO. If you can't get into those competitive specialties then too bad, you should have thought about that when you were in college.
 
Why not just go to law school?
 
Nah, just go DO. If you can't get into those competitive specialties then too bad, you should have thought about that when you were in college.
Click to expand...

^ more like you should have thought about that in med school
 
sexyman said:
after reading your new posts I changed my mind-

you are suffering from talking to FMGs lol. I know how it feels.
Click to expand...

Haha yea it sucks, they think I'm thinking of going into herbal medicine or something
 
The bottom line: your doctor is just wrong.

My dermatologist is a DO. I picked him randomly out of the phone book, and didn't even know he was a DO until I started chatting with him and mentioned that I was applying to medical school. He has a pretty successful practice here in Austin:

http://www.austinskin.com/

One of the Dr. 90210 douchebags is also a DO, I'm told.

I know a DO opthamologist.

I have looked thoroughly into this, and I am perfectly happy going the DO route. Interestingly enough, there are three people who I interact with semi-regularly who put DO school in my mind: my uncle, a Stanford Med microbiologist, his buddy, who is an MD/PhD oncologist (Stanford-educated), and a UT-Southwestern-educated neurosurgeon who works out at my gym. When I first started this process, I was really into sports medicine and ortho, and they suggested that DO school might actually give me some advantages when it comes to that sort of thing. Also, I am non-trad, and would probably be more comfortable with other older students.

But here's what I'm doing...

- Headed to DO school in Atlanta.
- Going to volunteer at Grady (major trauma center) during years 1&2, whenever I have time.
- Going to meet the right people there
- Going to rotate through Grady at least once
- Going to try and get in on some trauma research between years 1 and 2. Anywhere I can find.
- Going to rotate through other surgery programs where I may want to do residency: I have my eye on programs in Houston, Dallas, and DC right now.
- Going to blow away step 1, because I'm ****ing smart.
- Going to land surgery residency... hopefully one that will certify me for trauma. If not, then I do a fellowship.
- Going to be a trauma surgeon.

Whatever you want to do, you just need to identify some programs where you might want to do your residency and make connections there. I have already contacted the chief of surgery at Emory, and she has been plenty helpful so far. I have also contacted a couple DO trauma surgeons, to pick their brains about what I need to do, and they have also been helpful.

But in the end, its going to be all about you. Perform well, don't be an dingus to people who can give you bad marks, and you can write your own ticket.
 
My friend from Ross was recently on an interview for a radiology residency...

The guy who interviewed him said to him "I see you took the easy way out; you didn't go to a US allopathic or osteopathic medical school. But I hate to tell you there are no easy ways out."

My guess is he didnt get the spot. I also think he now understands why I am going to an osteopathic school.
 
MedChic said:
Haha yea it sucks, they think I'm thinking of going into herbal medicine or something
Click to expand...


It's generally tougher to get accepted to a US DO school than a carribean MD school (assuming that's the route they went). In that case, feel free to make them feel inferior🙂.
 
sexyman said:
My friend from Ross was recently on an interview for a radiology residency...

The guy who interviewed him said to him "I see you took the easy way out; you didn't go to a US allopathic or osteopathic medical school. But I hate to tell you there are no easy ways out."
Click to expand...

:bullcrap:
 
I love it how this side of the forum always states the question "will you be happy with a DO the rest of you life". You know what degree really pisses me off? The B.S. in biology, 4 years of waste and you can't even get a decent job with it.
 
BEEEF-

makes me happy you say that because I know its true lol

Another funny part of the story I forgot to add- the guy who said it got his degree in India and doesnt have a US degree either lol.
 
sexyman said:
BEEEF-

makes me happy you say that because I know its true lol

Another funny part of the story I forgot to add- the guy who said it got his degree in India and doesnt have a US degree either lol.
Click to expand...

NO ONE would bother to enumerate allopathic and osteopathic.
 
Toohotinvegas33 said:
I love it how this side of the forum always states the question "will you be happy with a DO the rest of you life". You know what degree really pisses me off? The B.S. in biology, 4 years of waste and you can't even get a decent job with it.
Click to expand...

:bow:

I think a parking ticket is more valuable than a BS in biology.
 
Beef- changed your mind about asking me to go back to my single mothers basement?
 
rogerwilco said:
It's generally tougher to get accepted to a US DO school than a carribean MD school (assuming that's the route they went). In that case, feel free to make them feel inferior🙂.
Click to expand...

Nah, my fam's from Europe. The MD's are legit Hungarian FMG's so I guess they don't truly understand the DO route.
 
Just to add more anecdotes... HUP has a DO anesthesiologist (Yes, a DO following ROAD) and also I have seen a surgical critical care DO. Yay for anecdotes. My point is, a top 10 MD school has DO staff, that's saying something, right? :meanie:
 
TexasTriathlete said:
The bottom line: your doctor is just wrong.

My dermatologist is a DO. I picked him randomly out of the phone book, and didn't even know he was a DO until I started chatting with him and mentioned that I was applying to medical school. He has a pretty successful practice here in Austin:

http://www.austinskin.com/

One of the Dr. 90210 douchebags is also a DO, I'm told.

I know a DO opthamologist.

I have looked thoroughly into this, and I am perfectly happy going the DO route. Interestingly enough, there are three people who I interact with semi-regularly who put DO school in my mind: my uncle, a Stanford Med microbiologist, his buddy, who is an MD/PhD oncologist (Stanford-educated), and a UT-Southwestern-educated neurosurgeon who works out at my gym. When I first started this process, I was really into sports medicine and ortho, and they suggested that DO school might actually give me some advantages when it comes to that sort of thing. Also, I am non-trad, and would probably be more comfortable with other older students.

But here's what I'm doing...

- Headed to DO school in Atlanta.
- Going to volunteer at Grady (major trauma center) during years 1&2, whenever I have time.
- Going to meet the right people there
- Going to rotate through Grady at least once
- Going to try and get in on some trauma research between years 1 and 2. Anywhere I can find.
- Going to rotate through other surgery programs where I may want to do residency: I have my eye on programs in Houston, Dallas, and DC right now.
- Going to blow away step 1, because I'm ****ing smart.
- Going to land surgery residency... hopefully one that will certify me for trauma. If not, then I do a fellowship.
- Going to be a trauma surgeon.

Whatever you want to do, you just need to identify some programs where you might want to do your residency and make connections there. I have already contacted the chief of surgery at Emory, and she has been plenty helpful so far. I have also contacted a couple DO trauma surgeons, to pick their brains about what I need to do, and they have also been helpful.

But in the end, its going to be all about you. Perform well, don't be an dingus to people who can give you bad marks, and you can write your own ticket.
Click to expand...

Texas,
You've really done your research...
wow
 
sexyman said:
Beef- changed your mind about asking me to go back to my single mothers basement?
Click to expand...

Ya. Something about your response made me decide to be a little less abrasive. Congrats.
 
Beeef said:
NO ONE would bother to enumerate allopathic and osteopathic.
Click to expand...


I could see it in this instance. It's a clear case where allopathic schools are considered "number 1" in terms of difficulty to gain admittance, followed by osteopathic at "number 2", and lastly Caribbean as "number 3." Makes sense that someone would, in essence, say "so you couldn't hack it with 1 or 2, so you went for 3?"
 
rogerwilco said:
I could see it in this instance. It's a clear case where allopathic schools are considered "number 1" in terms of difficulty to gain admittance, followed by osteopathic at "number 2", and lastly Caribbean as "number 3." Makes sense that someone would, in essence, say "so you couldn't hack it with 1 or 2, so you went for 3?"
Click to expand...

I understand the logic, but think in terms of practice - no one would say that. It reeks of a subtle attempt by a DO to try and pretend as though they're akin to MD. Whether they are or not isn't my point. In fact, if a doctor believed their equivalence, he wouldn't have bothered to mention both to some douche bag from a Saudi med school.
 
MedChic said:
Yes, he is an MD and there are very few DO's around so it's def. a skewed ratio. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with connections, scores etc. but form what I heard from this guy, even someone with a DO is in the 99% on the Boards, honors grades, and great extracurriculars will not land a super coveted spot over an MD with sligthly lower stats.

I know I should get a wider perspective. I know of a DO who's an internist and is super successful, so I'm sure you don't have to have a top specialty to be happy. I just don't want to have regrets ya know?
Click to expand...

Check out the match lists at the schools you were accepted to. I'm going to KCOM and at my interview, they gave out copies of their most recent match list. There were a couple of Mayo Clinic matches. Mayo's pretty darn hard to get into, no matter where you go to school!

So my questions to you are: what is your ultimate goal in life? and Why would you even apply to DO schools if you weren't serious about going to one? Something made you want apply there in the first place and they obviously saw that you wanted to be a good doctor, otherwise no acceptance.

As for your FMG family members, they must have had it hard getting into practice in the states. I know, I looked at going to med school in Europe, but it would have been really hard to get into a residency here. So maybe, they are just comparing their experience of being a FMG to a DO here only because they don't know anything about osteopathy.

Note---I have nothing against FMG and the best MD I have ever had in America was trained in India. I also have many FMG friends and I know how hard they had to work to get in the door here.
 
MedChic: just out of curiosity, which DO school(s) have you been accepted to, and what kind of medicine do you want to practice?

Keep in mind, when you look at DO match lists, you will see a lot of primary care. Why? Because DO schools are traditionally geared towards producing primary care physicians. Thus, people who want to be primary care physicians often go to DO school. Its not like they had a bunch of people trying to match derm, and they somehow got stuck at Family Med because they went to DO school. But you can do pretty much anything you want as a DO. You just have to be proactive with setting up your elective rotations.

Personally, I love the fact that the DO schools give so much flexibility with electives, and kind of force you to go out on your own and set them up, rather than giving you the option of staying home to do them at one of the big teaching hospitals. It cuts down on inbreeding. I want to find it necessary to go out to other hospitals and see how things are done elsewhere.
 
TexasTriathlete said:
MedChic: just out of curiosity, which DO school(s) have you been accepted to, and what kind of medicine do you want to practice?

Keep in mind, when you look at DO match lists, you will see a lot of primary care. Why? Because DO schools are traditionally geared towards producing primary care physicians. Thus, people who want to be primary care physicians often go to DO school. Its not like they had a bunch of people trying to match derm, and they somehow got stuck at Family Med because they went to DO school. But you can do pretty much anything you want as a DO. You just have to be proactive with setting up your elective rotations.

Personally, I love the fact that the DO schools give so much flexibility with electives, and kind of force you to go out on your own and set them up, rather than giving you the option of staying home to do them at one of the big teaching hospitals. It cuts down on inbreeding. I want to find it necessary to go out to other hospitals and see how things are done elsewhere.
Click to expand...

None. I am completely counting my chickens before they hatch so if ironically do not get accepted to any DO schools my decision will be made for me.

I applied to 6 DO schools and have 6 DO interviews, but no MD interviews. I applied to DO schools before applying to MD schools because my new MCAT score was not yet out in the early part of the app. cycle, therefore I do think that a late application hurt me.

I am not completely 100% positive of what I want to practice. I know I do not want to go into rads or path because I want to work with patients, but I did work with a surgeon for a while and loved it.
Opthamology and derm appeal to me greatly but they're super competitive so I'd have to work my tail off. I love working with the general population though so I wouldn't mind landing a fam practice, peds or internal meds residency, but I really like the idea of having experise in one general area.

And I'm def staying away from OB-GYN..
 
Where were the interviews? Have you taken any yet, or are they just scheduled?
 
Stick with the DO acceptance. I know DOs in a number of specialties: dermatology, pulmonology, neurology, emergency medicine, endocrinology, etc. Plus, as was mentioned earlier, there's a Dr. Kirby (I think that's him) on Dr. 90210 that went to NSUCOM and is now making a ****load in LA as a plastic surgeon.
 
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