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Trying to get input from different programs for applications...Would you recommend your program?
Would You Recommend Your Gs Residency Program?
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I'm at Ohio State. I think it's a great program. However due to it's recent change to a 6 year program I'll probably be keeping my eye open for a 5 year program that convinces me it'll get me a similar experience. Great operative experience, very busy program, Lots and Lots of whipples if you like that sort of thing, fair amount of autonomy, Ohio state is the major referral center so they see a lot of interesting stuff. Kinda weak on burns though. Trauma is good, but they don't see as much of the penetrating trauma as the downtown hospitals. I haven't come across much malignancy on the 3 services I've been on. Residents all seem to get along with eachother very well. I would be very happy staying here provided I figure out something I'd be excited enough about to make it 6 years.
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In a heartbeat. I am very happy here. To the OP--I know you want to stay in Texas and I am in New England, but if you (or anyone) wants to work hard with a great group of residents and super-solid nursing and support staff, I can recommend my program without hesitation.
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I would recommend mine. I feel I am at the greatest surgical residency program in the country. Sure, we have our little problems, but overall, we all have exposure to cases most don't and are trained by world-class surgeons in every field. The program has a commitment to education and does so within the time constraints currently in place. The research opportunities are unparalleled and it is in a city where I enjoy living. I couldn't be happier (then again, I am in the lab, so I may have just forgotten what it is really like).
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I know that my program is not one mentioned here all that often, but I would strongly recommend Scott and White in Texas. So far I am loving my internship. I get in the OR a lot, the teaching has been great, and I could not ask for a better group of residents to work with. Feel free to send me questions.
I would. I got my ass kicked on call last night but overall I think I'm getting some pretty good training. I get in the OR more than I expected and there is a pretty wide variety of cases, no one service really dominates the experience (at least as I can see so far). I like the city and I really like my fellow residents. Good place to be for 5 years.
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Ditto my program (although I'm just a prelim, and also I wasn't on call last night). They really make an effort to give us OR time, and protected time to practice surgical skills and for teaching clinical material. Plus the prelims and categoricals are treated the same for intern year. And they have both the will and the ability to be work hours compliant. I feel really fortunate to have landed here, even if it's just for a year.
The great thing about being at a solid program is that it sells itself, and you don't have to advertise its greatness.....
Therefore, I'm not going to actively recruit, as you seem to expect from us residents.
That being said, if anyone has specific questions about KU-Wichita, you can pm me and I'll try to fill you in.
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love it here. couldn't hope for better.
the comraderie between residents and communication with the attendings is awesome. and the learning from all associated services keeps you up to date and challenged at all times.
but it's hard. all surgical residencies are hard.
would i recommend it here - yes, but not to the faint of heart.
the comraderie between residents and communication with the attendings is awesome. and the learning from all associated services keeps you up to date and challenged at all times.
but it's hard. all surgical residencies are hard.
would i recommend it here - yes, but not to the faint of heart.
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Surgical residency is hard. You spend so much time at the hospital. The two most important things that you should have in any program is great relations among residents and an effort by the program to make you a great surgeon. What I mean is a program that strives for you to be compliant with 80 hours and gives you the opportunity to study for cases and be in the OR, even University programs. When I applied, all I wanted was to get into a top university program that would allow me the opportunity to become the best. I got my first choice, but let me tell you, since I began, it has been my last. I have been q3 in the last 4 months. 80 hours is a dream. My family, well lets just say I am constantly feeling guilty about not being with them or sleeping when I am. I don't know why surgery and even medicine is like this. It does not have to be. There has not been a day that I have not thought about quiting and I am someone that knew I was going to be a surgeon since jr. high. Three times I have driven off road on the freeway on the way home, because I have been so tired. We talk a great talk about how 80 hrs is the law and we must follow the law. But, when it is 6 pm and I am post-call still running around the hospital, silence is all I hear from faculty. I constantly feel stupid because I have no time to read and prepare. I don't know anything, not a penny worth of knowledge about surgery. An of course, there are my fellow residents. They smile and laugh with you, only to rip you behind your back. I have witnessed senior residents complaining to PD about interns behind their backs without even trying to address issues with the person first. You cannot breath without people judging you and saying something negative about you. Never has my senior even attempted or invited me in the OR. I can't trust anyone, I can't talk to anyone, and I feel like I am always being judged. I am very alone in my program. This is exactly what you don't want, especially when you are spending 3/4 of your time and life at your work place. My advice is, don't go for name, go for a place that will make you a well-rounded surgeon. A place that gives you time to be with your family and time to read, even if it is not a lot. Go to a place where your fellow residents are your brothers and sisters, people you can trust and be friends with. That is it. As for me, I have 7 more years to go. God be with me.
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Blade28
While not quite as bleak as goooooober's situation, my program is a little like that. 
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Thanks so much for your input and your honesty. That's exactly what I'm NOT LOOKING FOR. I'm praying for you, gooooober and blade, and praying that I can find a program that's a fit for me. I know it's hard work, it's hard work for everyone, but I also know that good relationships with your fellow residents can make that hard work much easier to get through. Again, Best of luck. By the way, Blade, your posts are really helpful to those of us just beginning this trail.
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Blade28
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While not quite as bleak as goooooober's situation, my program is a little like that.
Are you at Emory? And what do you mean by a little?
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That sucks! Goooober you should take up an administrative battle... of course that means putting yourself on the line and risking it all, but hey it might be worth it.
Sometimes greatness comes from risky acts.
You should be doing what you want (to a degree)... having come this far you deserve to live the life you've dreamt of. I hope you find something that works better than what you've got going now. Whether that is a change in your program or you changing programs. I hope you have the guts to make it happen... for your sake!
Good luck!
Sometimes greatness comes from risky acts.
You should be doing what you want (to a degree)... having come this far you deserve to live the life you've dreamt of. I hope you find something that works better than what you've got going now. Whether that is a change in your program or you changing programs. I hope you have the guts to make it happen... for your sake!
Good luck!
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While not quite as bleak as goooooober's situation, my program is a little like that.
You guys have more residents than we do per year; how can your program be a little like that?
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I'm sure everybody will try to avoid programs that doesn't fit them, the problem is how do you find out which programs are like that. We only have 2 days, and you know in those 2 days, programs will behave to sell themselves.
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I found it helpful to talk to students that I met on the interview trail about their home program. Most of them will talk freely about what they see as positives/negatives of their home program. Sometimes its a skewed perspective, but if I heard similar info from more than one source it did affect my decision to interview/rank that place. Another good source is residents from your current program who went to medical school at a program you're interested in.
V
VAspa
Make sure to ask the difficult questions:
1. Attrition rate
2. Why does your residency pictoral roster resemble a Christmas Tree (pyramid)?
I think it is fair to say that most people would not universally recommend their program. Everyone has awful days as a surgery resident. It is just a matter of what kind of day a person is having when you ask them the question as to whether they recommend their place or not.
For example, right now I probably wouldn't be the best advocate of my program, but on a day where.....
1. turnover time is low,
2. anesthesia doesn't cancel my cases for any apparent reason
3. I don't get written up for being "abusive" to the anesthesia staff for #2
4. my OR isn't closed at 4pm
5. The ER learns to close leg lacerations
6. you get to obtain some form of nutrition between 05:00 and 21:00
....then it might be a different story
1. Attrition rate
2. Why does your residency pictoral roster resemble a Christmas Tree (pyramid)?
I think it is fair to say that most people would not universally recommend their program. Everyone has awful days as a surgery resident. It is just a matter of what kind of day a person is having when you ask them the question as to whether they recommend their place or not.
For example, right now I probably wouldn't be the best advocate of my program, but on a day where.....
1. turnover time is low,
2. anesthesia doesn't cancel my cases for any apparent reason
3. I don't get written up for being "abusive" to the anesthesia staff for #2
4. my OR isn't closed at 4pm
5. The ER learns to close leg lacerations
6. you get to obtain some form of nutrition between 05:00 and 21:00
....then it might be a different story
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I'm just going to interject with a little reality check for you guys. This thread is 100% irrelevant. You know why? First of all, your idea of "acceptable" may differ wildly from someone else's. I've met lots of people who thought that what I considered "malignant" was just "what comes with the territory" and vice versa. Oh, did I mention to you that people will lie straight to your face? You know why? Because once you're there and realize they lied, it's too late.
I'm just saying because if you read SDN, everyone's program is work-hours compliant, everyone has a fantastic program director, everyone is learning lots every day, everyone gets into the OR from day 1 and is doing Whipples as a PGY-1 (which they had time to prep for the day before because they all do lots of reading at home after work), and everyone would recommend their program. Did I mention that everyone's program is also a well-known top-10 university program? Get the idea?
I'm just saying because if you read SDN, everyone's program is work-hours compliant, everyone has a fantastic program director, everyone is learning lots every day, everyone gets into the OR from day 1 and is doing Whipples as a PGY-1 (which they had time to prep for the day before because they all do lots of reading at home after work), and everyone would recommend their program. Did I mention that everyone's program is also a well-known top-10 university program? Get the idea?
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I agree with your first paragraph but I found this one rather amusing because I and several other SDNers have been accused (on more than 1 occasion) of implying that all surgery programs were over hours, with malignant faculty, poor teaching and little operative time because our programs were like that.
Goes to show you, everyone has a different experience at SDN reading the same threads.
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Blade28
I think we're sometimes spread too thin across too many hospitals.
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A large program size doesn't mean better coverage. Everyone, from the smallest community program to the largest university program, is stretched thin. You look at a community program with two residents per year and think they're having a ball because they're just covering a small community hospital, but that's not the case. Or you look at a university hospital and think they have sixty residents so everyone must be sitting around twiddling their fingers, also false.
University programs usually have at least two affiliates. At my program, this means that when we are at our affiliates, it's basically like a community program. We have a team of four to five residents covering the entire hospital.
Emory residents don't just stay at their main hospital. They get the joy of going to run-down ghetto hospitals, too.
University programs usually have at least two affiliates. At my program, this means that when we are at our affiliates, it's basically like a community program. We have a team of four to five residents covering the entire hospital.
Emory residents don't just stay at their main hospital. They get the joy of going to run-down ghetto hospitals, too.
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Blade28
Exactly.
Emory University Hospital - "teaching" academic hospital
Grady Memorial Hospital - busy county hospital (and famous Level I trauma center)
Egleston - children's hospital
Atlanta VA - no explanation required
Crawford Long Hospital - semi-private hospital
Piedmont - private hospital
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Famous for everyone at Emory not wanting to be there, that is, lol.
I kid, I kid. Sort of.
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Blade28
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I am at UTSW in Dallas(although in the lab at the moment, so take it with a grain of salt) and love it here. Having said that, it is definitely not for everyone. You ain't doing whipples here in your first year but by the end of second year you know how to take care of very sick people without a ton of say-so from the attending (depending on what hospital). Not for people with thin skins (I would only worry if people STOPPED making fun of me), or those who can't think well on their feet. I ran into several of our ex-chiefs at the ACS though, and they said the training was excellent for the boards and future practice. Feel free to message me if you want to know more...
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I could go on and on about what makes Louisville a great residency program but breifly: decision-making autonomy (level-appropriate of course); high patient volume; excellent operative experience in ALL categories through all five years (probably slower first year than some community programs); varying hospital environments- two large private hospitals, busy children's hospital, typical VA, and a University/county-like hospital; a nice medium-sized livable city; phenomenal ICU experience (very similar to what is described at UTSW); and perhaps most importantly and hardest to describe- the pervasive mindset of patient ownership.
Feel free to PM with any questions.
ps- people frequently confuse hard-working with malignancy
Feel free to PM with any questions.
ps- people frequently confuse hard-working with malignancy
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Good point but there's no denying that in the age of Hiram Polk, it was a bit more stressful than just "hard work"
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Just to let you all know, there are so many red flags coming from this post that it's incredible. I've never heard anything about this program, I don't have any experience with it, I don't have an opinion on it, I'm not discouraging anyone from it. I'm just saying that if someone said this to me at an interview, I'd high-tail it out of town.
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Why? Sounds good to me. But I'm inexperienced with the translations of things heard during interviews...
Anka
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It seems to fit with the stereotype that UTSW basically makes you a floor monkey for the first two years without much if any operative experience. Plus, it's reported to be quite nasty in terms of some of the personalities. I have no first hand experience of this and am in no way saying this is true, but the above "endorsement" isn't exactly ringing.
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Hmmm...let's see...
Translation: you aren't seeing the inside of the OR during the first two years. Learn to love the floor and ICU.
Translation: you are on your own buddy. Some autonomy is good, but especially at the junior level, you want and NEED some "say so" from attendings.
Translation: there is daily humilation, insensitive comments and a general unpleasant atmosphere. But hey, if you like people "making fun of you", this is your program!
You'd better be able to answer those pimp questions el pronto or the "making fun of" will continue. Oh and remember that you're on your own so when things go to hell in a handbasket, its important to be able to "think well on your feet".
One would hope so...why endure what is described above without some results. That said, I'm sure there are a great many programs which prepare you for the boards and practice without stealing your soul.
(NB: I have no personal knowledge of UTSW, its residents or faculty and no particular negative feelings about the program although am aware of its reputed "malignancy". But have used the above to highlight what the OP could possibly be saying for the user who said they couldn't "translate" things heard in interviews {or on SDN}]
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Don't bother. Assume everything you hear from the faculty, residents, and anyone else connected to the program is a bold-faced lie. Heck, even the fellowship matches they post are sometimes total bullcrap.
It's kind of wrong.
I wonder why there isn't accountability and why programs are allowed to lie like this during the interview process. Shouldn't the NRMP or ACGME disallow this?
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You take your chances like the rest of us did!
Seriously, you take some basic facts about the program:
- its location (do you want to be there)
- can your SO (if relevant) find employment there
- community vs university
- fellowship placements
- board pass rates from ABS (if you can figure the numbers out)
Couple those with your gut feeling about the place. Did the residents show up for interviews and dinners the night before? Did they seem sort of happy? Talk to grads from your program who matched there or who know people there (rather than the random stranger residents who you will meet). Sneak around before or after the interview and see if you can find some med students, nurses, residents in other specialties and see what they say about the surgery program. I personally never believe someone who makes it sound like everything is hunky-dory. Unfortunately, some residents are not so savvy or socialized and think everyone will believe whatever they say wihout question.
Unfortunately, like CV says, people do lie and you have no way of knowing about whether they are or not in many cases.
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Probably not going to sleep so well tonight, Doctor Cox...the Ambien is not working anymore.
There, there...don't worry about it. Everything will be alright.
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Your best source of information about the program will be the medical students from the program who are also interviewing at the program with you (or at another interview). Ask them, as they will give you an honest (although somewhat skewed to what the medical student sees, as you should never kid yourself into believing what med students see and what actually happens are the same) evaluation of their home program.
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