Would you report cheating?

[efle]

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That's not much better lol. As I said earlier, I care about my own morality, not some random kid's down the row from me. I won't cheat, lie or steal but I'm not going to go out of my way to report someone else either (unless it's hurting another person, in which case that's a different issue entirely).

Let me ask you this: why do you think universities punish cheating harshly, have academic integrity codes, etc? Considering that there is no harm done other than the cheater to themselves

 

[Glazedonutlove]

^ to add to above, why do you think those particular ethics questions are asked? It's not to hear some rehearsed answer about how you would do the right thing and turn the person in. they expect you to do that in real life too and there is a good reason for that

 

[Whats up Doc!]

am i being mocked

lol seriously thats what it reminded me of

 

[lucin]

Chances are that in medicine, your political skills are just as important, if not more important than you intellectual and clinical skills.

 

[ConfusedChemist]

What would I do? I would just go ahead and get an A in the class.. who cares about anyone else

Wouldn't want the other kid to steal their spot in med school though right?

 

[bumblebee611]

That's not much better lol. As I said earlier, I care about my own morality, not some random kid's down the row from me. I won't cheat, lie or steal but I'm not going to go out of my way to report someone else either (unless it's hurting another person, in which case that's a different issue entirely).

Sure, but the issue is how you decide whether it is or isn't your own ethics/morality/honesty that's in play when you make the decision to report or not report cheating. Plenty of schools and institutions have honor codes or ethics codes that require you to report dishonesty or cheating if you observe it. I am an attorney and my state's rules of professional responsibility include the following:

"A lawyer who knows that another lawyer has committed a violation of the Rules ... that raises a substantial question as to that lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects shall inform the [authorities]. ... A lawyer who knows that a judge has committed a violation of applicable rules of judicial conduct that raises a substantial question as to the judge’s fitness for office shall inform the appropriate authority."

Why isn't it okay to just say, well, it's not my problem, if that lawyer's a crooked, incompetent idiot, surely someone else will figure out and stop him? I know, you're going to say, "Because the lawyer's clients are depending on her" and in this case, the cheating is "victimless." But the point that others have been making here is that while today, the cheating may be victimless, the cheater will probably behave unethically or unprofessionally again at some point, and that may well do serious harm, and the system needs to minimize that risk by cracking down on cheaters. Not to mention that if we make a habit of worrying about juvenile BS like "not snitching" we aren't exactly going to have the spine to do the right thing when it's really tough (i.e. those interview questions about reporting an attending's ethical violation).

 

[Cotterpin]

I mean, nevermind the whole philosophical argument of no tolerance against evil/cheating or even the "no snitches" rule. I just wouldn't be able to bring myself to anonymously ruin some stranger's life over cheating on one quiz. I dunno. I just can't. It's too harsh for me.

 

[MangoPotato]

You used a camera during a quiz...?

 

[Lost in Translation]

You used a camera during a quiz...?

You didn't read the entire thread before posting to see if this question has been answered...?

 

[Lost in Translation]

Sure, but the issue is how you decide whether it is or isn't your own ethics/morality/honesty that's in play when you make the decision to report or not report cheating. Plenty of schools and institutions have honor codes or ethics codes that require you to report dishonesty or cheating if you observe it. I am an attorney and my state's rules of professional responsibility include the following:

"A lawyer who knows that another lawyer has committed a violation of the Rules ... that raises a substantial question as to that lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects shall inform the [authorities]. ... A lawyer who knows that a judge has committed a violation of applicable rules of judicial conduct that raises a substantial question as to the judge’s fitness for office shall inform the appropriate authority."

Why isn't it okay to just say, well, it's not my problem, if that lawyer's a crooked, incompetent idiot, surely someone else will figure out and stop him? I know, you're going to say, "Because the lawyer's clients are depending on her" and in this case, the cheating is "victimless." But the point that others have been making here is that while today, the cheating may be victimless, the cheater will probably behave unethically or unprofessionally again at some point, and that may well do serious harm, and the system needs to minimize that risk by cracking down on cheaters. Not to mention that if we make a habit of worrying about juvenile BS like "not snitching" we aren't exactly going to have the spine to do the right thing when it's really tough (i.e. those interview questions about reporting an attending's ethical violation).

Save your energy. @Affiche has lied and cheated their way into a med school acceptance and there's nothing you can do to guilt them into confessing.

 

[Lost in Translation]

I won't cheat, lie or steal but I'm not going to go out of my way to report someone else either (unless it's hurting another person, in which case that's a different issue entirely).

So you've said many times on here you wouldn't report the kid. So what have you said in an interview when asked the question: WWYD if you saw a classmate cheating? If you haven't been asked that yet, what would you say?

Don't lie.

 

[bumblebee611]

So you've said many times on here you wouldn't report the kid. So what have you said in an interview when asked the question: WWYD if you saw a classmate cheating? If you haven't been asked that yet, what would you say?

Don't lie.

Oh, I thought she already said that she answered it honestly; that she'd say it was none of her business or something along those lines.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Oh, I thought she already said that she answered it honestly; that she'd say it was none of her business or something along those lines.

Probably lied about that, too 😉

 

[ZedsDed]

Probably lied about that, too 😉

What exactly is your malfunction? You sound like a spurned ex or something 😉

As for the debate going on in this thread, I agree that even small acts of cheating can and do undermine the system.

 

[Lost in Translation]

What exactly is your malfunction? You sound like a spurned ex or something 😉

As for the debate going on in this thread, I agree that even small acts of cheating can and do undermine the system.

The folly of SDN is taking anything posted in Pre-Allo seriously.

 

[ZedsDed]

The folly of SDN is taking anything posted in Pre-Allo seriously.

Well if you're going to troll at least make it amusing for the rest of us.

 

[SilentDoGood]

Echoing what nearly all the other faculty members and people posting on this that are already in medical school, report it. To make the argument of "just stay out of other people's business" is not a valid one, and I can assure you if you're ever privileged enough to put on a white coat, your faculty members attending and honor council won't take, "I was just minding my own business" as a point. You want to be doctors. It's not a right, it's one of the highest privileges you get to have. Along with that comes a different level of responsibility than anything you've probably had before. You're one of (if not the) most trusted professions in the world. When you're in medical school and you "don't" report something, and someone finds out, you're just as guilty as they are. When you're an attending and you just tell a little white lie about a treatment or something that you missed, that's called malpractice. People get sued, lose their licenses, and people die. Stop focusing on the fact that it was "just one little quiz on one little ethics class." Report him and don't lose any sleep over it. If you're going to cheat, you don't deserve to wear the coat in the first place.

 

[Doudline]

The logic is really the reverse, but same end outcome. People who cheat in undergrad may not be likely to unethically endanger people, but the people willing to unethically endanger people most likely were willing to be unethical at a smaller scale in the past (B is a subset largely contained in A). Since it's really really bad to let that kind of person in, the blanket prevention strategy of outright rejecting all cheaters is the best way to go. Extremely high false positive rate, sure, since a lot of those people with IAs would not do anything terrible as physicians...but it's a worthwhile tradeoff for minimizing the false negative rate.

I assume you possess scientific evidence supporting this statement?

 

[Lost in Translation]

I assume you possess scientific evidence supporting this statement?

Where's yours?

 

[Cotterpin]

Where's yours?

You know that the person making the claim is the one responsible for providing evidence.

 

[Lost in Translation]

You know that the person making the claim is the one responsible for providing evidence.

I would put find a study but I'm not clicking through a Google search where the query "cheating" brings up spousal infidelity rather than what I'm looking for.

 

[efle]

I assume you possess scientific evidence supporting this statement?

It's logic, it's a premise about what seems likely and what follows as response, not a hypothesis about what is empirically observed. Def open to being contested if you want to say instead that you think serious unethical actions arise out of the blue, rather than coming from people that are generally willing to break the rules and have a history of doing so!

 

[Cotterpin]

I would put find a study but I'm not clicking through a Google search where the query "cheating" brings up spousal infidelity rather than what I'm looking for.

Then don't go asking other people to disprove someone else's claim if you can't be bothered to find supporting evidence for it.

@efle Not that I want to get into some philosophical argument with you, but I don't think that's "logic." You're making an assumption.

 

[Incis0r]

So my approach to this is that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students. This has been repeatedly proven- and the SDN adcoms can provide evidence for that if you guys want. And in professions where ethics matter a lot (such as healthcare), it is even more important for colleagues to police each other.

That said, I am also a believe in multiple chances. I just don't think people should be disqualified permanently over one such issue.

I would talk to the cheater and tell them that I have proof that they cheated, and that I can either report them,or they can go and confess that it was an error in judgement themselves to the professor- confessing directly might bring leniency on the side of the professor and prevent this from becoming an IA. This is also good because it forces the cheater to confront what they did and truly develop remorse.

Also, OP, don't let anyone tell you that you're doing something bad to someone. You're not. They put themselves in that position. And if you let it slide, you're enabling them. It's your and every single one of your colleagues' job to protect the character of your profession so that the patients continue to trust the field.

 

[efle]

Then don't go asking other people to disprove someone else's claim if you can't be bothered to find supporting evidence for it.

@efle Not that I want to get into some philosophical argument with you, but I don't think that's "logic." You're making an assumption.

Yes, I am, assumptions are often made in premises. They can be sound or unsound, in this case it seems quite sound to me - "a population of known cheaters is likely higher risk for unethical behavior" is not an assumption I'd personally contest. But if you or doud would instead assume the opposite, you are certainly free to, each person can decide what seems most reasonable to them

 

[Cotterpin]

Yes, I am, assumptions are often made in premises. They can be sound or unsound, in this case it seems quite sound to me - "a population of known cheaters is likely higher risk for unethical behavior" is not an assumption I'd personally contest. But if you or doud would instead assume the opposite, you are certainly free to, each person can decide what seems most reasonable to them

I'm not assuming anything at all. Especially not about this one person I know nothing about who was cheating on one quiz one time. This isn't my fight. It's just a pet peeve of mine when people make claims based on assumptions, then tell other people to disprove them, and then try to act like that's sound logic. Lol, no it's not.

 

[efle]

I'm not assuming anything at all. Especially not about this one person I know nothing about who was cheating on one quiz one time. This isn't my fight. It's just a pet peeve of mine when people make claims based on assumptions, then tell other people to disprove them, and then try to act like that's sound logic. Lol, no it's not.

But it is common and completely acceptable to begin with a handful of reasonable assumptions and move to claims based on them...saying "that's an assumption" is not really an attack on the soundness of an argument, you'd need reasoning to say it's an invalid assumption being made. I don't think mine was, but again, anyone can disagree.

 

[Cotterpin]

But it is common and completely acceptable to begin with a handful of reasonable assumptions and move to claims based on them...saying "that's an assumption" is not really an attack on the soundness of an argument, you'd need reasoning to say it's an invalid assumption being made. I don't think mine was, but again, anyone can disagree.

You can assume all day long. It can even be a reasonable assumption. But don't call that "logic."

 

[efle]

You can assume all day long. It can even be a reasonable assumption. But don't call that "logic."

Premises and the assumptions they involve, validity, soundness, arguments, fallacies, etc are all within logic...

 

[ZedsDed]

But it is common and completely acceptable to begin with a handful of reasonable assumptions and move to claims based on them...saying "that's an assumption" is not really an attack on the soundness of an argument, you'd need reasoning to say it's an invalid assumption being made. I don't think mine was, but again, anyone can disagree.

If we are going to get all technical, it sounds more like you are making an inference than an assumption. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[efle]

If we are going to get all technical, it sounds more like you are making an inference than an assumption.

Technically, inference is the move from premises to conclusion. It is an assumption in my premises that the people committing serious unethical acts tend to be unethical generally/historically. It's also an assumption that it's really really bad to have unethical doctors, which I also have no studies to support, so I suppose Doud may want to contest that too 😛

 

[ZedsDed]

Technically, inference is the move from premises to conclusion. It is an assumption in my premises that the people committing serious unethical acts tend to be unethical generally/historically. It's also an assumption that it's really really bad to have unethical doctors, which I also have no studies to support, so I suppose Doud may want to contest that too 😛

I have heard @Goro say often that "we know that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students." Perhaps he knows something that we don't?

 

[WestCoastNative]

My God.. OP mind your business, don't be a hater. The cheater won't learn anything and will eventually end up failing with or without your help. When did snitching become an ethical thing to do..

 

[Affiche]

My God.. OP mind your business, don't be a hater. The cheater won't learn anything and will eventually end up failing with or without your help. When did snitching become an ethical thing to do..

This.

#realtalk you all can throw shade at those of us who decide to just worry about ourselves, but seriously, this thread seems to be full of pre-meds who would jump at the first opportunity they had to destroy someone else if it meant protecting their lead. I can't stand people who hurt others to get ahead, and some of you wouldn't even think twice about it.

We're all in agreement here that cheating is wrong. Frankly, some of you need to grow up. The world is rarely black and white and just because someone would handle the situation differently than you that doesn't make them more or less ethical.

If I am on an honor code that states that I will report any violation that I witness, then obviously I'll report it. I'm not going to drag myself into a violation. A professional committing fraud or any other violation? I'll report. Some idiot kid cheating on quiz? No, he'll deal with the consequences himself and I'll continue to worry about the 10,000 other things in my life.

And for the love of God, can we please stop trying to extrapolate and come up with analogous situations which are totally not analogous? Thanks 😉

 

[Affiche]

Save your energy. @Affiche has lied and cheated their way into a med school acceptance and there's nothing you can do to guilt them into confessing.

How many Affiches are there? Use proper grammar, dude.
And it's acceptanceS 😉

I think you have a poor understanding of what interviews are like, which is fair if you haven't interviewed. Very rarely are you asked a yes or no question. Instead, you'll likely be asked how you would handle a situation and why. Someone who states that he'll quickly report someone without any reasoning behind that decision will not interview better than someone who discusses the gray area, acknowledges all influential factors and chooses a well-thought out response. Interviewers don't always have the ''right'' answers either, they just want to understand your the reasoning behind your (hopefully ethical) decisions.

 

[jl lin]

It is a bit bothersome to me that it was blatantly obvious, and no one seemed aware or cared.

Cheating is wrong b/c it is wrong ultimately for the society at large. Sure, it is an individual wrong the person does within his own soul and life.
But the overriding issue is that it undermines the integrity of the school and all its constituents. And on the greater scale, the more cheating and such is tolerated, the more the morals and ethics and core union of the society is undermined and brought into question.

Look at it this way. Cheating is a disunity dynamic; it breaks the bonds of trust, integrity, which are necessary for true unity.

Now, I am not one to go hog wild over this kind of thing, especially as in the other thread, since actual cheating wasn't demonstrated, and the person needed to speak up and assert a unambiguous "NO!" to the other person hounding him.

Once again, why can't the OP here speak up? Why can't he say, "You know, this wasn't an open quiz?" If the guy doesn't get the point, then the student can have the gonads to say to the t/a or professor, "Listen. I didn't realize this was an open test,," and show the pic.
I don't know if the t/a will let it go or not. If the former, and you think this is truly a concern at your school, class, whatever, now you may have to keep notes of further incidences and show a pattern or submit this to your Academic Advisory Committee--or Dean. It's a PITA, but whatever.

Just report the academic dishonesty according to your school's protocol and move on.
Just remember that you have to suck up getting into the weeds over this as well as the t/a. So talking about it on SDN is further wasting your time. Report the action but be prepared to deal with further inquiries. They just can't take someone's word. There has to be some due diligence in the process. Wouldn't you want due diligence in the process if you were accused? So you will have to suck up further involved, if requested, in order to change things. That's life.
It's easy to bitch online. There sure have been quite a number of responses in this and the other thread. If you live by certain principles, morals, and ethics, then follow them. You don't need anyone's approval here.

 

[Montisumo]

As I'm typing this there is a dude in my class with no shame cheating using his phone. He took a bunch of pictures off someone else's notes. I actually snapchatted him to a friend so I have the picture.

This quiz is so easy and it makes me sick that he would take such a huge risk to cheat on an easy quiz.

Should I email it to his TA or drop it?

*I'm not taking the quiz, I already took it, he was absent for two days.

Ez quiz? Boys been gone two days? Ya see, sometimes u gotta pick ur battles wisely. You don't know what he's been through (unless you do). He could have gone through some rough two days. I say drop it this time given the circumstances. A small easy quiz... Not worth throwing this kids future under the bus. I'll bet even the TA has a hard time reporting this kid to the professor unless he's a repeated offender. I would just chalk this up, if he pulls the same bs again, hammer his butt.

 

[Lawpy]

I'm not sure what is going on but i'll try to recap/provide some common views.

1. Cheating is inherently unethical.

2. Reporting someone for cheating. This issue is situation-dependent and i am struggling to see how failing to report a cheater implies anything negative about you.

3. On a similar angle as 2, OP actually took the picture of a cheater in action, so there is really no reason for her to not do anything. Since the evidence is captured, the ideal plan of action is by sending it to the TA anonymously.

 

[Cotterpin]

1. Cheating is inherently unethical. But the consequences and severity of the unethical behavior vary greatly depending on the circumstance. You probably wouldn't call the police on somebody who cheated playing a boardgame. But you would definitely report somebody lying about making a mistake in a patient's treatment. The person who cheats playing a boardgame is not more likely to grow up to become an unethical doctor, in my opinion.

2. I think reporting someone you don't know for cheating once on something very minor, like a single easy quiz, shows a lack of compassion at the very least.

3. If I were OP, I would hang on to that picture and keep an eye on the cheater. If you see him cheating again, then by all means, take it to the TA.

 

[jl lin]

Details matter in a "just" system. Don't hide behind the anonymous if it is an important enough principle to you. There are situations where you may have to report things anonymously. This isn't one of them. Anonymity is why so much crap in this world is tolerated. No one wants to get involved. If you don't want to get involved, then how the hell can you b!tch about it?

The Big Bang Theory had an episode where the surgical resident, of all things, went into the OR with earrings on, and they found the earring in the patient. Her response was to slip her other earring off and back out of there. OK, it's fiction; but I have seen a fair amount of lack of integrity in HC. The essential issue to me is that people fail to evaluate the situation from the patient's POV--like what if that were you? What if that was your family member?

Doing the right thing is hard. It is many times anything but the path of least resistance. I'd rather work with a person with a very strong sense of ethics and character than the most amazing brainiac w/o those things. And that is the problem today. People kiss people's a$$es based on superficial crap, rather than where the rubber really meets the road.

There are a number of ways to handle the OP's situation. Whichever approach you use, do the right thing, and be prepared to stand behind it.The attitude of Truman seems to be gone when it comes to saying "The buck stops here."

What's most interesting to me is that some would think that cheating on an ethics quiz is less disturbing than say, cheating on a biochemistry quiz.
In your career, issues of ethics will be more prevailing than biochemistry in most medical situations. I get pissed when people are just like, "Well, we just have to take this as some academic formality." No! There are prevailing and important reasons you must learn about ethics, as well as healthcare ethics. And I feel very disappointed by those that don't see them as important, if not imperative.

 

[Affiche]

Details matter in a "just" system. Don't hide behind the anonymous if it is an important enough principle to you. There are situations where you may have to report things anonymously. This isn't one of them. Anonymity is why so much crap in this world is tolerated. No one wants to get involved. If you don't want to get involved, then how the hell can you b!tch about it?

The Big Bang Theory had an episode where the surgical resident, of all things, went into the OR with earrings on, and they found the earring in the patient. Her response was to slip her other earring off and back out of there. OK, it's fiction; but I have seen a fair amount of lack of integrity in HC. The essential issue to me is that people fail to evaluate the situation from the patient's POV--like what if that were you? What if that was your family member?

Doing the right thing is hard. It is many times anything but the path of least resistance. I'd rather work with a person with a very strong sense of ethics and character than the most amazing brainiac w/o those things. And that is the problem today. People kiss people's a$$es based on superficial crap, rather than where the rubber really meets the road.

There are a number of ways to handle the OP's situation. Whichever approach you use, do the right thing, and be prepared to stand behind it.The attitude of Truman seems to be gone when it comes to saying "The buck stops here."

What's most interesting to me is that some would think that cheating on an ethics quiz is less disturbing than say, cheating on a biochemistry quiz.
In your career, issues of ethics will be more prevailing than biochemistry in most medical situations. I get pissed when people are just like, "Well, we just have to take this as some academic formality." No! There are prevailing and important reasons you must learn about ethics, as well as healthcare ethics. And I feel very disappointed by those that don't see them as important, if not imperative.

Can you tl;dr your posts, please?

 

[moisne]

Actually - at my school - if you catch someone cheating and you DO NOT report it and someone knows you knew about it and reports both of you - both of you (cheater and the person who knows) have to face the ethics committee.

Whenever someone tells me they did some bad - I'm like "please don't tell me".

The quiz itself is not the big deal. The bigger deal is seeing an error (such as a medical error) - not reporting it. It is unethical and these traits don't get formed over night when you receive your MD diploma. Maybe your school doesn't have that written in their honor code but I know many schools does.

Now that said - I'm a hypocrite - I knew a friend who is cheating on her exams and I did not report it. 🙁 - I did however, confront her about it. "You already failed this class once, you are retaking it - do you think this is helping you learn? How will you pass step?"

I followed up with something along the lines of "please don't cheat again, and please don't let me catch you cheating again, because I believe in second chances - and if I see this a second time I would need to report it."

(honestly, I wouldn't want a someone - a friend no less- be paying 30-60k/year and get kicked out of med school in her 4th year)


However - to OP...
The correct order of step is this:

1. Confront the cheater
2. Hypothetically the cheater will go and admit the problems or you will report them.

Usually I settle at the: Confront the cheater, and he will say "yeah you are right, I shouldn't have done that - I won't do it again". In an ideal world - he would stop.

But would I report a pre-med doing that once? Does he do it often or is it a one time thing? There's a lot of consequences. If it results in IA intervention, he has 0 chance of getting into med school anywhere.

Mind your own business.

I don't think someone is guilty of an honor code violation for not snitching on a cheater. Just keep your own nose clean.

this thread seems to be full of pre-meds who would jump at the first opportunity they had to destroy someone else if it meant protecting their lead. I can't stand people who hurt others to get ahead

 

[moisne]

Slippery slope and possible borderline personality disorder?

There is a difference between rape and quiz. Rape affects someone else. Cheating does not affect anyone else except the person's own learning - they are just hurting themselves.

The reason for an honor code that requires you to report other cheaters is to get used to it in the health care field. If you see a nurse or another doctor mess up - do you speak up on the behalf of that patient.

Let me ask you this. Would you report a rape if you saw it happening, or would it be "none of your business?"

Also, my point was not that cheating is as bad as rape (although in certain moral frameworks it can be argued that it is), my point is that you would report rape because it is wrong. Those of whom claim they would never report a cheater are just as culpable as the person who cheats.

 

[Gandyy]

This.

#realtalk you all can throw shade at those of us who decide to just worry about ourselves, but seriously, this thread seems to be full of pre-meds who would jump at the first opportunity they had to destroy someone else if it meant protecting their lead. I can't stand people who hurt others to get ahead, and some of you wouldn't even think twice about it.

We're all in agreement here that cheating is wrong. Frankly, some of you need to grow up. The world is rarely black and white and just because someone would handle the situation differently than you that doesn't make them more or less ethical.

If I am on an honor code that states that I will report any violation that I witness, then obviously I'll report it. I'm not going to drag myself into a violation. A professional committing fraud or any other violation? I'll report. Some idiot kid cheating on quiz? No, he'll deal with the consequences himself and I'll continue to worry about the 10,000 other things in my life.

And for the love of God, can we please stop trying to extrapolate and come up with analogous situations which are totally not analogous? Thanks 😉

Exactly. Also I highly doubt that all of the "white knights" on here would actually report this kid for cheating on a quiz.

No this does not mean I am condoning him for cheating before everyone jumps the gun like they always do. Yes, we all agree that cheating is wrong. I wont lie, I have anonymously reported some kids for essentially "group cheating" on large exams. Because that is bull****.

But in this situation, would I report this person for doing this? I'm not so sure. I agree with the viewpoint that you should confront the cheater, and talk to them about it. If you catch them again, report them. Still cheaters do deserve a big middle finger. No doubt about that.

 

[Gandyy]

So my approach to this is that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students. This has been repeatedly proven- and the SDN adcoms can provide evidence for that if you guys want. And in professions where ethics matter a lot (such as healthcare), it is even more important for colleagues to police each other.

That said, I am also a believe in multiple chances. I just don't think people should be disqualified permanently over one such issue.

I would talk to the cheater and tell them that I have proof that they cheated, and that I can either report them,or they can go and confess that it was an error in judgement themselves to the professor- confessing directly might bring leniency on the side of the professor and prevent this from becoming an IA. This is also good because it forces the cheater to confront what they did and truly develop remorse.

Also, OP, don't let anyone tell you that you're doing something bad to someone. You're not. They put themselves in that position. And if you let it slide, you're enabling them. It's your and every single one of your colleagues' job to protect the character of your profession so that the patients continue to trust the field.

I can see your point of view. I definitely would not blame you for wanting to report the cheater. My main point in the post above though, is that I really doubt everyone who says they would report cheaters would actually report them when the situation arises.

 

[Incis0r]

I can see your point of view. I definitely would not blame you for wanting to report the cheater. My main point in the post above though, is that I really doubt everyone who says they would report cheaters would actually report them when the situation arises.

In complete agreement with you- and don't worry- my post was not referencing anything you said. It's just a general theme that I've seen and that's what I was addressing.

 

[WestCoastNative]

Just out of curiosity, how do you think the cheater will react if you end up confronting him and what do you expect to gain from it? Do you want him to apologize to you and promise not to do it again? Personally I picture him reacting with anger and possibly instigating a fight, are you ready?

 

[Affiche]

Actually - at my school - if you catch someone cheating and you DO NOT report it and someone knows you knew about it and reports both of you - both of you (cheater and the person who knows) have to face the ethics committee.

Whenever someone tells me they did some bad - I'm like "please don't tell me".

The quiz itself is not the big deal. The bigger deal is seeing an error (such as a medical error) - not reporting it. It is unethical and these traits don't get formed over night when you receive your MD diploma. Maybe your school doesn't have that written in their honor code but I know many schools does.

Now that said - I'm a hypocrite - I knew a friend who is cheating on her exams and I did not report it. 🙁 - I did however, confront her about it. "You already failed this class once, you are retaking it - do you think this is helping you learn? How will you pass step?"

I followed up with something along the lines of "please don't cheat again, and please don't let me catch you cheating again, because I believe in second chances - and if I see this a second time I would need to report it."

(honestly, I wouldn't want a someone - a friend no less- be paying 30-60k/year and get kicked out of med school in her 4th year)


However - to OP...
The correct order of step is this:

1. Confront the cheater
2. Hypothetically the cheater will go and admit the problems or you will report them.

Usually I settle at the: Confront the cheater, and he will say "yeah you are right, I shouldn't have done that - I won't do it again". In an ideal world - he would stop.

But would I report a pre-med doing that once? Does he do it often or is it a one time thing? There's a lot of consequences. If it results in IA intervention, he has 0 chance of getting into med school anywhere.

Right, I've already addressed that it's a different situation if your school's honor code requires you to report a violation if you witness it. I've already said that I wouldn't drag myself through a violation, but if it's not a violation to not report, then I'm going to mind my own business.

A medical error is irrelevant to this situation.

Obviously everyone would handle this a different way. Personally, I wouldn't confront the cheater either because that violates my policy of minding my own damn business, but to each their own.

 

[ZedsDed]

Is it bad that even though I understand cheating is bad and that it undermines the system, I honestly don't care about one guy cheating on one quiz? I might get irritated, but that's about it.

 

[Incis0r]

Just out of curiosity, how do you think the cheater will react if you end up confronting him and what do you expect to gain from it? Do you want him to apologize to you and promise not to do it again? Personally I picture him reacting with anger and possibly instigating a fight, are you ready?

I would go Frank Underwood on him.