Would you say something?

[Perrotfish]

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I just recieved a mass Email from a medical recruiter, asking for our help advising and recruiting new students for Navy medicine. He asked us to keep our eyes open for potential recruits, and he also attached a number of recruiting flyers for the services.

I'm fine with getting the Email, and would in fact be happy to help with recruiting (by sharing my honest experiences so far), but I couldn't help being being offended by flyers. They're very mercenary: nothing but a long list of numbers, dollar signs, and 'Free Medicial school!!!" highlighted over and over. One of them even headed 'Free Medical School!'. No mention of our mission, our nation, the Mercy/comfort, honor, courage, commitment, or anything. The numbers are honest, I don't think the recruiter did anything wrong, but it just looks like the ad for a used car dealership. I'm not an over the top Navy pride guy, but this seems crude to me. Furthermore I remember seeing more dignified recruiting material when I was in medical school, and I remember looking down on the Air Force advertisments that were much more in the vein of the material this recruiter sent me.

So the question: is it wrong to Email this guy and mention my concern? I have no idea who else vetted this recruiting material, but at least the guy who sent the Email is my rank. If its a turn off to me it has to be a turn off to at least some of the recruits as well. Worth mentioning, or keep my mouth shut?

 

[J-Rad]

Meh, it's more valuable for you to just be honest with your experiences to those that would ask you about them. Know the limitations of your knowledge, but be honest. The advertisements will change only with the winds of whatever the designers and those paying them blow. Your contribution to that change is unlikely to be meaningful.

 

[MaximusD]

I would say something. You have a vested interest in who joins the program, and that is going to attract the wrong types, imo.

Who cares what is "proper" to do. I'm more concerned at all times with what is the right thing to do. If you think you should say something, do so (politely).

 

[backrow]

Be sure to send your response to all hands because that is likely who all it will get forwarded to over the next several years.

Responses via email to things like this invariably end up as email fodder for a long time a la the "lead Ensign" in Pensacola and "princess Kate"

It's not worth it in my opinion, too many possible pitfalls in creating a measured and appropriate email.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

Meh, it's more valuable for you to just be honest with your experiences to those that would ask you about them. Know the limitations of your knowledge, but be honest. The advertisements will change only with the winds of whatever the designers and those paying them blow. Your contribution to that change is unlikely to be meaningful.

I agree. As a general rule there's no point beating your head against the wall about stuff like this. Most likely this recruiter got these materials from his chain. Even if your reply email persuaded the recruiter to forward those concerns up the chain (which is unlikely unless you can demonstrate that the added effort/paperwork is worth a quantifiable number of additional commissions toward his quota or whatever), then that information will then be FW:FW:FW: at higher headquarters, maybe at some point getting to the desk of someone with the standing to authorize changes. Those changes then filter back down the chain to the people who actually implement and distro the materials, and assuming that person doesn't die/PCS/separate/retire then 3 years from now the posters might be changed. They might then succeed in hooking the slightly higher-brow HPSP applicants, a percentage of whom will be accepted and go on to graduate college/medschool/residency and enter the the operational military, where their skills may theoretically benefit you just before an asteroid annihilates the Earth in 2032.

But if you got nothing better to do, then by all means get after it brotha.

 

[Perrotfish]

Be sure to send your response to all hands because that is likely who all it will get forwarded to over the next several years.

Responses via email to things like this invariably end up as email fodder for a long time a la the "lead Ensign" in Pensacola and "princess Kate"

It's not worth it in my opinion, too many possible pitfalls in creating a measured and appropriate email.

I've never seen either of those emails, and they're not easy to find on Google. Care to share?

 

[tkim]

I've never seen either of those emails, and they're not easy to find on Google. Care to share?

I used Google.

"From: ENS NASC, SNFO
Sent: Mon 8/31/2009
Subject: Update from Pensacola

Ladies and Gentlemen,

The hours have become longer down here in Pensacola... And I haven't even begun training! I was actually recalled back to Flight Management after my one-month brief stint with the Blues to be the Lead Ensign of "A" Pool. Although the title sounds glorious, the work is even more rewarding. It is the first time I feel as if I am directly making an immediate impact on my colleagues. The job is simple- ensure that people are ready to class-up for IFS and API and provide them with the necessary tools to succeed while they prepare to start their training as Naval Aviators. I pray everyday that I have the energy to do what is right and provide the best support for all 500 Ensigns down here, but they were right when they said leadership isn't a popularity contest.

I will admit this is probably the most difficult job I have ever taken-up; being a leader among your peers is hard at times and I have stepped on a few toes in order to get things done. I know that it is not the best way to do business and I have learned from these mistakes but what continues to motivate me is the endgame- having my buddies class-up and knowing that my staff and everyone who works in this office had a hand in the outcome. I catch myself asking why I enjoy coming into work by 7am and leaving no earlier than 4pm, sometimes sticking around till 5 or 6, but the energy that surrounds this place is something different.They call the base the "Cradle of Naval Aviation" and with a whole group of newly commissioned Ensigns eagerly, for the most part, waiting to begin their careers, the energy that some of them bring to the command is astonishing.

It is interesting to see the many walks of life people come from and the melting pot A-Pool is and has become but what astounds me the most is that although we are only a small piece of the puzzle, this is where everything begins.My schedule / routine has smoothed itself out for the most part. Up by 6am, work by 7am, PT and lunch between 10am and 12pm, hopefully out the door by 4pm, evening activity of some sort, then bed anywhere between 11pm and 1am.

You will probably find me out in town Tuesday thru Saturday, whether it is running the Maguire's 5k, dinner at the Fish House, Jellyfish, Ale House, Ichiban, or Dharma Blues, the pit stop into Seville Quarter, sailing in and around the bay, or headed out to Pensacola or Perdido Beach for the day.Then on Sunday evenings I go in and greet the Blues when they come back from their trips (tradition). I have definitely gotten use to this typical / average lifestyle here in Pensacola so hopefully they will keep me around for a while.

With that said, it looks like I will be classing-up for IFS anywhere between mid-Oct to early-Jan and jumping right into API afterwards.This is by choice and the higher powers to be have tried to make it smooth sailing for me. ! My chain of command is great! They are very supportive, mentor me, and treat me as if I was staff. Hope I don't mess this up!

That is all I have right now. I hope everyone is doing great and that all is well.

VR,Ensign, U.S. Navy"

 

[backrow]

Tkim nailed the lead ensign email, unfortunately the best part is left off: the string of email to/from lines with commentary as it went around just about every aviation command in the US Navy. This was apparently an email originally sent back to his ROTC detachment.

 

[NOLAdentist2016]

I wonder how often people send emails around like this. This makes me a little nervous now, lol.

A few months ago I emailed back and forth with a new recruiter at a different recruiting station because I was so frustrated with my first recruiter and the way he handled everything. I wasn't rude or obnoxious (i think), but just detailed all the ridiculous things the recruiter said to me and lies he told me and the way he handled my kit. I hope this isn't going around to all the recruiting offices now and being put in my file! woops. I guess its best to call from now on.

 

[IgD]

Hit "Reply to All". Refer to the recruiter by their name, say you appreciate their effort, that they are noted and he(?) is a true credit to the Navy. Then say its an important issue and we need to keep high visibility on this. Then say please keep me apprised of this important effort and your process.

 

[pgg]

I tend to think that since recruiters are impervious to reason, nothing good can come of responding.

I've done the sort of thing you're contemplating - emailing concerns to people that I think are screwing something up in a way that makes the Navy look bad - and it never ends in a satisfying way. At best, it's ignored; at worst, you wind up getting **** about it.

 

[Perrotfish]

Thanks for the replies. I won't say anything.

 

[MaximusD]

Wuss.

 

[244913]

Thanks for the replies. I won't say anything.

As you progress into your active duty time, first GMO tour, second GMO tour, ? 3rd GMO tour you will find a lot of things to complain about. And you'll learn which battles are worth fighting and what is better left alone.

Trust me, this isn't worth fighting. Not because it could redound poorly on you or your career, but simply because it is, in my opinion, a non-issue.

Save your vitriol for this board so that in 3-4 years you can leave drunken posts in the style of bomberdoc, AFM4 and the greats of yesteryear.

-61N

 

[ravager135]

Just has a meeting with RADM Chinn not long ago who mentioned this briefly. First of all for those who do not know, HPSP was taken away from Naval Education and Training and given directly to the Medical Corps to oversee. BUMED will directly fund TAD to your alma maters to speak and recruit potential medical corps officers for the USN. If you are looking for TAD and trip home which is no cost to your current command it sounds like a great opportunity.

I am with the original poster in that those flyers sound pretty juvenile but with dropping numbers applying to medical school it will be interesting to see how the medical corps meets their quotas. They haven't seem to have a problem the most recent years aside from the drop a few years back.

I am in no way involved in BUMED, just a lowly flight surgeon who got the admiral's ear for an hour with some other providers. I submit my letter of resignation Monday (one year left). I may capitalize on some of this TAD because despite my desire to leave the Navy I do not regret my decision to joint. Just some additional info.

 

[NavyFP]

Just has a meeting with RADM Chinn not long ago who mentioned this briefly. First of all for those who do not know, HPSP was taken away from Naval Education and Training and given directly to the Medical Corps to oversee. BUMED will directly fund TAD to your alma maters to speak and recruit potential medical corps officers for the USN. If you are looking for TAD and trip home which is no cost to your current command it sounds like a great opportunity.

I am with the original poster in that those flyers sound pretty juvenile but with dropping numbers applying to medical school it will be interesting to see how the medical corps meets their quotas. They haven't seem to have a problem the most recent years aside from the drop a few years back.

I am in no way involved in BUMED, just a lowly flight surgeon who got the admiral's ear for an hour with some other providers. I submit my letter of resignation Monday (one year left). I may capitalize on some of this TAD because despite my desire to leave the Navy I do not regret my decision to joint. Just some additional info.

First, I think it is RDML Chinn not RADM. 😀 (I know, I need to stop being such a PIA)

Second, it is merely the recruiting aspect of HPSP that has transferred over to BUMED, not the program itself. Once you are in, it is NM Professional Development Center who is in charge.

Third and in line with the original post. If you have questions or comments, never wrong to tactfully discuss them.

 

[ravager135]

First, I think it is RDML Chinn not RADM. 😀 (I know, I need to stop being such a PIA)

Second, it is merely the recruiting aspect of HPSP that has transferred over to BUMED, not the program itself. Once you are in, it is NM Professional Development Center who is in charge.

Third and in line with the original post. If you have questions or comments, never wrong to tactfully discuss them.

I stand corrected. Agree with the above.

 

[pgg]

First, I think it is RDML Chinn not RADM. 😀 (I know, I need to stop being such a PIA)

My dad was a radarman (RDM?) in the Navy long ago. One day my mom goes in to pass & id to get stickers for their car, and the guy working there mistakes the paperwork for a rear admiral. She got a star for the car and nice parking at the commissary & exchange for a couple years ... 🙂

 

[MTGas2B]

My dad was a radarman (RDM?) in the Navy long ago. One day my mom goes in to pass & id to get stickers for their car, and the guy working there mistakes the paperwork for a rear admiral. She got a star for the car and nice parking at the commissary & exchange for a couple years ... 🙂

That's classic.


On the iPhone

 

[Apollyon]

My dad was a radarman (RDM?) in the Navy long ago. One day my mom goes in to pass & id to get stickers for their car, and the guy working there mistakes the paperwork for a rear admiral. She got a star for the car and nice parking at the commissary & exchange for a couple years ... 🙂

So they gave her RDML and not RADM? Still, O-7 is better than E-anything!

 

[pgg]

So they gave her RDML and not RADM? Still, O-7 is better than E-anything!

Don't know, this was literally 50-60 years ago. My dad said he got called on it a couple times when driving the car, obviously most ~25 year olds haven't made flag rank yet, but he just played it off by claiming "it's my uncle's car I've just got it for today"

 

[NavyFP]

Don't know, this was literally 50-60 years ago. My dad said he got called on it a couple times when driving the car, obviously most ~25 year olds haven't made flag rank yet, but he just played it off by claiming "it's my uncle's car I've just got it for today"

Not going to discount your story at all...........Love it. And it fits with so many stories I heard in my youth, but just a little history lesson.

For the longest time, the Navy did not have a one star rank. Rear Admiral (lower half) still wore 2 stars. They just happened to be on the bottom half in seniority of those with the rank of Rear Admiral. In the 70s the other services got peeved by this and the rank of Commodore was created as an actual rank (vice just a title) which was the one star rank. Some did not care for this and hence the rank of Rear Admiral (lower half, or RDML) was re-created and the two star equivalent RADM was also created. To the common folk, like us, does it matter? In reality no....... they all outrank us.

 

[Apollyon]

For the longest time, the Navy did not have a one star rank. Rear Admiral (lower half) still wore 2 stars.

You know what? I knew that some time in the long past. Thanks for the reminder!! (And a play to being older.)

 

[Navy Flight Doc]

In response to the OP, if you did want to tactfully discuss it with someone, I would highly recommend a phone call. So many things aren't transmitted well in email. What sounds polite and constructive in your head may read like an argumentative attack. A phone call also can't go viral (there was a GREAT one recently -- but I agree the comments on the string are better than the actual email). But better yet, ask who creates the ads and discuss your concerns there (assuming it's someone around your level). Of course, if you say something there's a decent chance that you could end up on whatever committee makes the ads. haha Good luck! I agree, we could use some better advertising than what they sent you!