Would you still choose psychiatry if you could do it over again?

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Yeah, I think my attitude started to sour when I was working at the VA. We had some excellent attendings there, and I liked how they were pretty evidence-based, but it was the service connected disability stuff that soured me.

If the APA would take a stand recommending the federal government stop supporting permanent disability for treatable conditions like anxiety, PTSD, bipolar, etc., I would have way more respect for this field. I wonder if they have a stand on that issue? There is no incentive in our society for peopel to overcome these conditions ever since welfare got eliminated and states started telling people to apply for federal disability benefits based, often, on exaggerated mental health conditions.

It's perverse to encourage people not to get better, and that's exactly what we do, especially with the setup of benefits at the VA.

well of course......but when you take a job at the VA you just have to understand that this is the system and agree to work within it. IMO, taking a job at the VA and then complaining about such things is like moving to north dakota voluntarily and complaining about it being cold in january.

The idea that any one psychiatrist(even local service chiefs or the people above them in admin regional offices) are going to do anything to actually change this mindset/structure is laughable.

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I would not do psych again. I would either do infectious disease research or cardiothoracic or vascular surgery.

ID is great. It was one of the things I thought I was going to do when I started medical school. But see, I was interested in epi and tropical diseases and historical pandemics . . . I got to med school and was exposed to c. diff and mrsa. Nosocomial stuff. Those are not sexy. I probably should have gone to med school in Atlanta. I interviewed at Emory. They didn't want me. So sad. (Pitt was pretty great. Just not much going on on the tropical disease front.)
 
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Well, I had a great psych clerkship in medical school, and I thought people in psychiatry were nicer than the people in surgery or medicine. I thought psychiatry would be about understanding people's motivations, and helping them steer their lives in the directsion they wanted. I thought all my patients would be motivated, inherently interesting, high functioning people who were psychologically astute and wanted to figure out how they could optimize their lives. I thought psychiatrists could have an impact on the well being of people on a population level by doing this kind of work.

I have totally learned my lesson since then. People in the general population are not as motivated, high functioning or psychologically aware as I had thought. I think we end up diagnosing mental illnesses a lot of the time when really the problem is that our society is going down the tubes. I do try to do the things I just mentioned, and it's rewarding when I'm able to, but those goals do not seem to me to be consistent with where our field is at right now, or what society wants from mental health. I know people will debate me about this and that's fine, but to me psychiatry seems to be about checklists, overdiagnosing, polypharmacy, getting by with as little internal medicine knowledge as possible and putting all of America on disability. Yeah I'm exaggerating but you see my point. I think we are a specialty that is guided mainly by the direction of the wind. For example right now it's in vogue for everyone to have PTSD, so we diagnose a lot of PTSD...

And another thing that bothers me is that no one wants to talk about these problems.


This resonates a lot. :( I keep thinking that I might be better suited to a public health career where I could actually maybe make a difference at fixing the systems level problems that make dealing with individual level stuff so frustrating. But I haven't been able to figure out how to figure out if that job exists, how to get trained for it, and how much I'd get paid to do it. Plus the thought of going back to school or into training . . . I kind of like my attending salary and free time a bit too much for those options to sound pleasant. I don't necessarily like what I think that says about me, but there you go.

Fundamentally, I think I still like my patients and care about people. I think fundamentally, I probably do like psychiatry. But I think caring has led to a high degree of just being exhausted and that systems issues prevent being maximally helpful at the individual level a lot of the time.
 
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well of course......but when you take a job at the VA you just have to understand that this is the system and agree to work within it. IMO, taking a job at the VA and then complaining about such things is like moving to north dakota voluntarily and complaining about it being cold in january.

The idea that any one psychiatrist(even local service chiefs or the people above them in admin regional offices) are going to do anything to actually change this mindset/structure is laughable.

I was talking about when I worked there as a resident.
 
ID is great. It was one of the things I thought I was going to do when I started medical school. But see, I was interested in epi and tropical diseases and historical pandemics . . . I got to med school and was exposed to c. diff and mrsa. Nosocomial stuff. Those are not sexy. I probably should have gone to med school in Atlanta. I interviewed at Emory. They didn't want me. So sad. (Pitt was pretty great. Just not much going on on the tropical disease front.)

That's what happened to me!! I love math, so epi appeals, and I love reading about pandemics, but in med school ID was all about hand washing and putting on the right gown. And infected diabetic ulcers... But ebola, that's interesting! I sometimes think about applying to an ID research lab for a job, using my MD background. Maybe once my loans are paid off!

I'm thinking of going to a conference next year in Africa that is all about zoonotic diseases, attended by MDs and vets. I wonder if there's some way to connect that to psych. I even wonder about lending myself out to the world of veterinary medicine sometimes...
 
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This resonates a lot. :( I keep thinking that I might be better suited to a public health career where I could actually maybe make a difference at fixing the systems level problems that make dealing with individual level stuff so frustrating. But I haven't been able to figure out how to figure out if that job exists, how to get trained for it, and how much I'd get paid to do it. Plus the thought of going back to school or into training . . . I kind of like my attending salary and free time a bit too much for those options to sound pleasant. I don't necessarily like what I think that says about me, but there you go.

Fundamentally, I think I still like my patients and care about people. I think fundamentally, I probably do like psychiatry. But I think caring has led to a high degree of just being exhausted and that systems issues prevent being maximally helpful at the individual level a lot of the time.

I feel the same way!
 
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I'll go ahed and chime in: I would absolutely choose psychiatry if I had to do it again. (And I am a picky person.)

However, I've had the good fortune of creating a successful private practice. It came at the expense of a lot of hard work though.

If you're curious, here are some stats. I'm located in a major metropolitan area in California. I am only a few years out of residency. I work probably about 40 hours/week (sometimes more), and income is about 500-700,000/year (yes, you read that correctly). Although I was reluctant to specify my income, I did so because I want young/interested people to know that the "median salary" of 180k (or whatever pathetic figure it is) isn't always right. A colleague of mine makes bw $1-1.5M/year (but he is running basically a pill mill, which I would not conscionably do). Minimum appt is 25 min and up to 90 mins, so I am definitely not running a pill mill.

My work is extremely interesting and intellectually stimulating. Patients are generally intelligent and motivated to improve. I see a wide variety of ages and diagnoses, which is great. I am lucky enough to not have a ton of hardcore personality disorder cases. My patients and their families are generally very grateful and appreciative. I'm well regarded by colleagues - but perhaps if I were in a backwards part of the country then I would be disrespected. But here in CA, I often see the family members of fellow physicians, etc. Psychiatry is really well regarded here. My patient load is absolutely great - ranging from creative people (filmmakers, actors, musicians, writers), entrepreneurs & highly successful businesspeople, other professionals (physicians, laywers) to students and young adults. I have a sliding scale for needy patients - not being I need to, but because I want to.

Downsides? Honestly, none are specifically related to psychiatry. If anything, sometimes I wonder what it'd be like in some other high-stimulus field (eg TV work, business of health/care, or law). I basically *never* wonder about other specialties. Then again, if I were trapped in some awful county job with hardcore schizophrenics trying to bite me etc (and making 150k doing it), I'm sure I would. Hmm.. I guess downsides would include typical "psych" ones, like how it is a field of opposites - sometimes the people who need meds the most need pursuading but refuse (would someone refuse meds for cardiac or cancer reasons? rarely).. there is still a bit of a stigma (but honestly not much here in CA).. also, certain patients can be real tough (especially if it's combo of severe Axis 1 + 2 +3).

Again, I'm fortunate in that I have been able to create for myself a wonderful setting (which has turned out to be successful financially). The reason? I can only speculate that I've created a "product" that people and their families really value and appreciate, because they keep coming back, and refer their friends & family, etc. Why some people complain about their salary (or any other metric) -- in any specialty -- is beyond me. If that's the case, then get off your butt and find a better job. Or better yet, make one. Quit passively complaining. And for anyone wanting to be skeptical of my listed salary - although I've created a successful practice, I am nothing special. It's not like I am seeing just the uber-wealthy, etc. I wish I could explain the details of my practice model - but I want to remain anonymous, and frankly, I do not want to give out my secrets. To those people who are critical of individuals who don't willingly publicize their secrets: get a life and go figure out the secrets yourself. You will take hard knocks along the way, but you'll figure them out. In any case, I would consider this sorta the upper end of what one can realistically hope to make in CA as a psychiatrist in private practice (if want more, they'd have to be marketing/business masters + work a ton + open a rehab/clinic/program of some sort). I don't think a ton of psychiatrists make this amount, but to be honest - I don't really know because friends don't ask each other their income, really.

Anyway, it's a potentially great field. You develop long-lasting relationships with people and you see the results of your efforts. You watch people improve literally in front of your eyes. For those in med school or residency: try not to judge the field based on your one possibly crappy rotation. Rotations are on inpatient units where people are involuntary hospitalized and pissed because of that (wouldn't you be?). You barely get to see outpatient psychiatry, which is the setting that 95% of psychiatrists work in.

Would I want to be a psychiatrist somewhere like Indiana, Texas, Louisiana, etc? Hell no (working against the grain of high stigma, low professional respect, low income, etc) If I'm wrong on those assumptions, then sorry. Would I want to be a radiologist? Sure they make great money. But staring at a computer screen & dictating all day? Please shoot me. IM/subspecialty? Chase sodiums all day - no thanks. In the grind of surgery? Stressed with little sleep, chronically pissed off etc Haha shoot me twice. Neurology always seemed interesting but too boring/bookish. Pain management might have been cool. Although derm/plastics could be mildly neat from a creative aspect, cosmetic work would be superficial to me.

That's just my opinion. I hope it helps at least someone. Feel free to message me with any questions. But to be honest, I never really take the time to post on here. Good luck, everyone.
 
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I'll go ahed and chime in: I would absolutely choose psychiatry if I had to do it again. (And I am a picky person.)

However, I've had the good fortune of creating a successful private practice. It came at the expense of a lot of hard work though.

If you're curious, here are some stats. I'm located in a major metropolitan area in California. I am only a few years out of residency. I work probably about 40 hours/week (sometimes more), and income is about 500-700,000/year (yes, you read that correctly). Although I was reluctant to specify my income, I did so because I want young/interested people to know that the "median salary" of 180k (or whatever pathetic figure it is) isn't always right. A colleague of mine makes bw $1-1.5M/year (but he is running basically a pill mill, which I would not conscionably do). Minimum appt is 25 min and up to 90 mins, so I am definitely not running a pill mill.

My work is extremely interesting and intellectually stimulating. Patients are generally intelligent and motivated to improve. I see a wide variety of ages and diagnoses, which is great. I am lucky enough to not have a ton of hardcore personality disorder cases. My patients and their families are generally very grateful and appreciative. I'm well regarded by colleagues - but perhaps if I were in a backwards part of the country then I would be disrespected. But here in CA, I often see the family members of fellow physicians, etc. Psychiatry is really well regarded here. My patient load is absolutely great - ranging from creative people (filmmakers, actors, musicians, writers), entrepreneurs & highly successful businesspeople, other professionals (physicians, laywers) to students and young adults. I have a sliding scale for needy patients - not being I need to, but because I want to.

Downsides? Honestly, none are specifically related to psychiatry. If anything, sometimes I wonder what it'd be like in some other high-stimulus field (eg TV work, business of health/care, or law). I basically *never* wonder about other specialties. Then again, if I were trapped in some awful county job with hardcore schizophrenics trying to bite me etc (and making 150k doing it), I'm sure I would. Hmm.. I guess downsides would include typical "psych" ones, like how it is a field of opposites - sometimes the people who need meds the most need pursuading but refuse (would someone refuse meds for cardiac or cancer reasons? rarely).. there is still a bit of a stigma (but honestly not much here in CA).. also, certain patients can be real tough (especially if it's combo of severe Axis 1 + 2 +3).

Again, I'm fortunate in that I have been able to create for myself a wonderful setting (which has turned out to be successful financially). The reason? I can only speculate that I've created a "product" that people and their families really value and appreciate, because they keep coming back, and refer their friends & family, etc. Why some people complain about their salary (or any other metric) -- in any specialty -- is beyond me. If that's the case, then get off your butt and find a better job. Or better yet, make one. Quit passively complaining. And for anyone wanting to be skeptical of my listed salary - although I've created a successful practice, I am nothing special. It's not like I am seeing just the uber-wealthy, etc. I wish I could explain the details of my practice model - but I want to remain anonymous, and frankly, I do not want to give out my secrets. To those people who are critical of individuals who don't willingly publicize their secrets: get a life and go figure out the secrets yourself. You will take hard knocks along the way, but you'll figure them out. In any case, I would consider this sorta the upper end of what one can realistically hope to make in CA as a psychiatrist in private practice (if want more, they'd have to be marketing/business masters + work a ton + open a rehab/clinic/program of some sort). I don't think a ton of psychiatrists make this amount, but to be honest - I don't really know because friends don't ask each other their income, really.

Anyway, it's a potentially great field. You develop long-lasting relationships with people and you see the results of your efforts. You watch people improve literally in front of your eyes. For those in med school or residency: try not to judge the field based on your one possibly crappy rotation. Rotations are on inpatient units where people are involuntary hospitalized and pissed because of that (wouldn't you be?). You barely get to see outpatient psychiatry, which is the setting that 95% of psychiatrists work in.

Would I want to be a psychiatrist somewhere like Indiana, Texas, Louisiana, etc? Hell no (working against the grain of high stigma, low professional respect, low income, etc) If I'm wrong on those assumptions, then sorry. Would I want to be a radiologist? Sure they make great money. But staring at a computer screen & dictating all day? Please shoot me. IM/subspecialty? Chase sodiums all day - no thanks. In the grind of surgery? Stressed with little sleep, chronically pissed off etc Haha shoot me twice. Neurology always seemed interesting but too boring/bookish. Pain management might have been cool. Although derm/plastics could be mildly neat from a creative aspect, cosmetic work would be superficial to me.

That's just my opinion. I hope it helps at least someone. Feel free to message me with any questions. But to be honest, I never really take the time to post on here. Good luck, everyone.

Good **** man. Thanks for posting.
 
Curious on the knock on Texas. Did you train in Cali? I figured most big cities are already saturated, but maybe not in psychiatry.

Yes, I did.

Don't mean to knock other states - but I've lived elsewhere, and know that the rep of psychiatry varies regionally. Here in CA, I feel like respect is not an issue - whereas it may be in other states. I just used TX as an example - but you're right, I'm not sure if that's accurate.

Hope this helps.
 
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