Would you work for an independent pharmacy?

Started by Music_rx
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
The fact that thousands of independents operate under the scrutiny of various Boards of Pharmacy, the DEA, and CMS is in and of itself prima facie evidence that the vast majority are on the "up & up".

I can't imagine that you don't understand this.
You must be in the depths of a sea of cognitive dissonance to assert that this isn't the case.

I understand that we are both allowed to have opinions.
I'm also allowed to point out that your opinion is poorly thought out, devoid of any serious reason, and most likely entirely fabricated.

If you don't want someone to heavily criticize and scrutinize your points, make better points. Base them in fact.
Independents will likely take advantage of you. The more desperate you are, the more they take advantage. Pay you a lot less. Have horrible 401k selection with high ER. Most of the time have no 401k match, sometimes they give you a "match"/ your real salary goes there for accounting purposes so they can claim write offs. Nickle and dime you for more profitability. If you need a work visa, pay your own, never mind if it's illegal. A LOT will provide no benefits for their employees. If they do, it's a crappy benefits with high premium. It's not a public company where everyone can scrutinize your book. Creative accounting happens a lot. Some will pay cash under the table for pharmacists (ask me how I know...). There was a poster here even mentioned that they will gladly welcome the saturation so they can hire a pharmacist for $40/hr. Finding fired chain rphs that end up in independents is not uncommon. Hiring loose and paying less. All true. That's the reality working for independents. You never know what you are in for.

No one cares if you point out my thoughts are poor because you are a nobody. Almost all of the above happened to my friends. That's a fact they got screwed. Saying that it didn't happen is worth jack sh1t to them (and me). But keep mentioning I fabricated everything as if it carries any real weight for anyone. The OP got low ball offer. You provide no supporting facts to your opinion that majority of independents are good, they are all rosy and gravy. If the above are not enough reasons to avoid them, go right ahead, work for them, roll the dice, it's not my life. You might get lucky and find a good one. It's definitely a last resort before anything else.
 
Independents will likely take advantage of you. The more desperate you are, the more they take advantage. Pay you a lot less. Have horrible 401k selection with high ER. Most of the time have no 401k match, sometimes they give you a "match"/ your real salary goes there for accounting purposes so they can claim write offs. Nickle and dime you for more profitability. If you need a work visa, pay your own, never mind if it's illegal. A LOT will provide no benefits for their employees. If they do, it's a crappy benefits with high premium. It's not a public company where everyone can scrutinize your book. Creative accounting happens a lot. Some will pay cash under the table for pharmacists (ask me how I know...). There was a poster here even mentioned that they will gladly welcome the saturation so they can hire a pharmacist for $40/hr. Finding fired chain rphs that end up in independents is not uncommon. Hiring loose and paying less. All true. That's the reality working for independents. You never know what you are in for.

No one cares if you point out my thoughts are poor because you are a nobody. Almost all of the above happened to my friends. That's a fact they got screwed. Saying that it didn't happen is worth jack sh1t to them (and me). But keep mentioning I fabricated everything as if it carries any real weight for anyone. The OP got low ball offer. You provide no supporting facts to your opinion that majority of independents are good, they are all rosy and gravy. If the above are not enough reasons to avoid them, go right ahead, work for them, roll the dice, it's not my life. You might get lucky and find a good one. It's definitely a last resort before anything else.

That is, unless you have some under the table stuff of your own. There's an AZ pharmacy that intentionally employs and underpays pharmacists in managerial positions in their massive C-II hospice compounding operation whose PIC samples the control compounded materials all the time. Low pay, but great workplace benefits. No one does anything about it, because at the quantities of morphine powder and other C-II compounds, the losses are definitely less than the 5% (and the 1%) from the scale. I know if I had a problem, there is a pharmacy job where I could self-medicate myself with the merchandise...
 
I worked at an independent pharmacy for a short time. They generally pay less chain pay>>>>hospital pay>>independent pay. $60,000 is way below, but depending on your area, $90,000 is close to ballpark. Low pay, but usually a nice lifestyle-no night shifts, no holidays, limited or no weekends. As for illegal stuff, I think one is more likely to run into illegal stuff at an independent pharmacy, then at a chain pharmacy. But most independents are as honest as any other pharmacy, and illegal stuff can and has been found in chain and hospital pharmacies, not just independents. Any new job is a risk, but it's not like your pizza delivery job won't take you back if this one doesn't work out, so congrats on your new job. It is always easier to find a pharmacy job when you are currently working one (or at least already have some pharmacist experience.)
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Independents will likely take advantage of you. The more desperate you are, the more they take advantage. Pay you a lot less. Have horrible 401k selection with high ER. Most of the time have no 401k match, sometimes they give you a "match"/ your real salary goes there for accounting purposes so they can claim write offs. Nickle and dime you for more profitability. If you need a work visa, pay your own, never mind if it's illegal. A LOT will provide no benefits for their employees. If they do, it's a crappy benefits with high premium. It's not a public company where everyone can scrutinize your book. Creative accounting happens a lot. Some will pay cash under the table for pharmacists (ask me how I know...). There was a poster here even mentioned that they will gladly welcome the saturation so they can hire a pharmacist for $40/hr. Finding fired chain rphs that end up in independents is not uncommon. Hiring loose and paying less. All true. That's the reality working for independents. You never know what you are in for.

No one cares if you point out my thoughts are poor because you are a nobody. Almost all of the above happened to my friends. That's a fact they got screwed. Saying that it didn't happen is worth jack sh1t to them (and me). But keep mentioning I fabricated everything as if it carries any real weight for anyone. The OP got low ball offer. You provide no supporting facts to your opinion that majority of independents are good, they are all rosy and gravy. If the above are not enough reasons to avoid them, go right ahead, work for them, roll the dice, it's not my life. You might get lucky and find a good one. It's definitely a last resort before anything else.
OK, let me pivot and say fair enough:
If three out of the ~230,000 pharmacists in the US had a bad experience because of their extremely unique situations, I concede that it was probably no fun for them.

Let's agree that your warnings against independents are:
1.) You might get paid less, like hospital or clinical pharmacists.
2.) If you're a niche pharmacist that is somehow desperate for a change of immigration status right at the time of hiring, you might get taken advantage of.
The independent pharmacy that hires you somehow forces you to deposit money into their checking account so that they can send a check to USCIS that isn't in your name, because that's literally how USCIS works.

Yikes. Scary stuff.

I'm curious: have you ever heard of an independent pharmacist working a 14 hour shift with no lunch or bathroom breaks?
Have you ever heard of an independent pharmacist being yelled at by a store manager with a GED and associates degree because of bad internet surves?
How about staying late for free after their scheduled hours because they don't have enough techs to safely complete the work?
Are there any catchy internet personalities like "The Cynical Pharmacist" that post about the troubles of working at an independent?
Has an independent pharmacist ever been fired for failing to meet a quota of flu shots?
Are there hundreds of posts on SDN complaining about corporate jobs, with employees so terrified of their employers that they don't actually say the company name?
Are there any independents that have told all RPhs that they're freezing salaries or cutting hours to 28 or 32 hours, while still pulling in billions in profit?

No? Weird. I guess those all apply to corporate retail.

I guess some people have things like self-respect and value their dignity, patients/customers and their health over a few dollars per hour.
 
Last edited:
OK, let me pivot and say fair enough:
If three out of the ~230,000 pharmacists in the US had a bad experience because of their extremely unique situations, I concede that it was probably no fun for them.

Let's agree that your warnings against independents are:
1.) You might get paid less, like hospital or clinical pharmacists.
2.) If you're a niche pharmacist that is somehow desperate for a change of immigration status right at the time of hiring, you might get taken advantage of.
The independent pharmacy that hires you somehow forces you to deposit money into their checking account so that they can send a check to USCIS that isn't in your name, because that's literally how USCIS works.

Yikes. Scary stuff.

I'm curious: have you ever heard of an independent pharmacist working a 14 hour shift with no lunch or bathroom breaks?
Have you ever heard of an independent pharmacist being yelled at by a store manager with a GED and associates degree because of bad internet surves?
How about staying late for free after their scheduled hours because they don't have enough techs to safely complete the work?
Are there any catchy internet personalities like "The Cynical Pharmacist" that post about the troubles of working at an independent?
Has an independent pharmacist ever been fired for failing to meet a quota of flu shots?
Are there hundreds of posts on SDN complaining about corporate jobs, with employees so terrified of their employers that they don't actually say the company name?
Are there any independents that have told all RPhs that they're freezing salaries or cutting hours to 28 or 32 hours, while still pulling in billions in profit?

No? Weird. I guess those all apply to corporate retail.

I guess some people have things like self-respect and value their dignity, patients/customers and their health over a few dollars per hour.
You just mentioned the ONLY good thing working for independent is a low stress and better hours. For pay, 401k "match"/low cost provider, any PTO and sick/holiday/vacation pay, and benefits, forget about it, most people will get screwed to a tune of a couple thousands dollars in total. People are generally a dumb ass with money. There is also a career risk working for them. Next day your local chain might buy you out and close you for good. Your boss? He probably won't even tell you anything until he pockets $300k-2M.

Pros vs. Cons. Is it for me? Nope.
 
That is, unless you have some under the table stuff of your own. There's an AZ pharmacy that intentionally employs and underpays pharmacists in managerial positions in their massive C-II hospice compounding operation whose PIC samples the control compounded materials all the time. Low pay, but great workplace benefits. No one does anything about it, because at the quantities of morphine powder and other C-II compounds, the losses are definitely less than the 5% (and the 1%) from the scale. I know if I had a problem, there is a pharmacy job where I could self-medicate myself with the merchandise...

I got a couple indies in BFE want to pay me cash to help them out for $45/hr sit at the back and let the tech do the all work (this include techs putting the finger/password). The owner let them do that. He wanted to take a few days off. The tech working there is an acquaintance (she quit a chain pharmacy and works for them, no health benefit, low stress for $5 less/hr). I said nope, I don't want a quick buck and I get fired from a chain I am working at if they find out due to conflict of interest. One friend in NYC does this tho. He has a full time job at mega corp and a part job in chinese independent, he said many independents here pay you cash under the table.

I worked at an independent pharmacy for a short time. They generally pay less chain pay>>>>hospital pay>>independent pay. $60,000 is way below, but depending on your area, $90,000 is close to ballpark. Low pay, but usually a nice lifestyle-no night shifts, no holidays, limited or no weekends. As for illegal stuff, I think one is more likely to run into illegal stuff at an independent pharmacy, then at a chain pharmacy. But most independents are as honest as any other pharmacy, and illegal stuff can and has been found in chain and hospital pharmacies, not just independents. Any new job is a risk, but it's not like your pizza delivery job won't take you back if this one doesn't work out, so congrats on your new job. It is always easier to find a pharmacy job when you are currently working one (or at least already have some pharmacist experience.)

They are facing a huge pressure from the chains. They get lower reimbursement compare to the big chains. Anything that might bring them money in the gray "illegal" area, they will do it. Look at Sparda's owner, billing higher reimbursed med to make more money and get clawed back by PBMs. To be honest, I'd do the same stuff if I wanna stay in business.
 
You just mentioned the ONLY good thing working for independent is a low stress and better hours. For pay, 401k "match"/low cost provider, any PTO and sick/holiday/vacation pay, and benefits, forget about it, most people will get screwed to a tune of a couple thousands dollars in total. People are generally a dumb ass with money. There is also a career risk working for them. Next day your local chain might buy you out and close you for good. Your boss? He probably won't even tell you anything until he pockets $300k-2M.

Pros vs. Cons. Is it for me? Nope.
Agreed.
I think we are on the same page now.

Like I said, some people are happy to be wage-slaves, chasing every last penny.
Some aren't.
For me, it's just not worth it to endure the humiliation of corporate retail.

Especially when they are pledging to cut $1B, cutting RpH hours, and continuing to slash tech hours.
 
You keep mentioning under the table pay. That's good. I hate that my independent owner stopped doing that. When he was paying me under the table, I was netting 8.5k a month.

Now, I'm working the same 180 hours a month and netting $6.5k because everything is being taxed. His lawyer/accountant scared him out of paying under the table.
 
You keep mentioning under the table pay. That's good. I hate that my independent owner stopped doing that. When he was paying me under the table, I was netting 9k a month for 180 hours. (That's a net rate of $50/hour).
Now, I'm working the same 180 hours a month and netting $6.5k because everything is being taxed. His lawyer/accountant scared him out of paying under the table.
Tax evasion is never a good idea.
 
But breaking federal law to stay in the Country is fine as long as you play the victim
People do all sort of illegal sh1ts to survive. Both are breaking the law and take advantages of each other in desperate times.

Won't happen with the mega corp, I got to be legal for free.
 
People do all sort of illegal sh1ts to survive. Both are breaking the law and take advantages of each other in desperate times.

Won't happen with the mega corp, I got to be legal for free.

It's not about survival, it's the thrill of winning for us. Well, the interesting thing is whether or not the IRS can audit 150-600k workers and small businesses right now. Most of the IRS auditors are tied up (because of the past budget law) going after the EIC credit employees. My tax lawyer colleagues are basically wondering how much grey area money laundering to offshore or on the line deductions will happen due to the gutting of the corporate audits division.
 
It's not about survival, it's the thrill of winning for us. Well, the interesting thing is whether or not the IRS can audit 150-600k workers and small businesses right now. Most of the IRS auditors are tied up (because of the past budget law) going after the EIC credit employees. My tax lawyer colleagues are basically wondering how much grey area money laundering to offshore or on the line deductions will happen due to the gutting of the corporate audits division.
Any employee that get paid in cash is actually doing a disservice for himself. Not only it is illegal, he is losing a lot of benefits.
  • He loses social security benefit credit because he has 0 income reported that year
  • If there is a work comp claim, he won't be covered since there is no record
  • If he gets fired, how does he file unemployment benefit? His employer doesn't contribute any
  • If you want to take a home loan, well you have no records... no one will give you a mortgage loan
  • Tax evasion: The employee and employer gets to skimp paying payroll taxes: 6.2% for social security up to $128,400 in gross income, 1.45% for Medicare. Employee pays no fed and state taxes. Possible felony + jail time for both...
For example: a 35 years old male that has worked for 10 years under the table getting cash entirely. He is planning to retire at 65; He only has 30 years of social security credit left instead of 35 years max (this lowers his retirement benefit).
 
Any employee that get paid in cash is actually doing a disservice for himself. Not only it is illegal, he is losing a lot of benefits.
  • He loses social security benefit credit because he has 0 income reported that year
  • If there is a work comp claim, he won't be covered since there is no record
  • If he gets fired, how does he file unemployment benefit? His employer doesn't contribute any
  • If you want to take a home loan, well you have no records... no one will give you a mortgage loan
  • Tax evasion: The employee and employer gets to skimp paying payroll taxes: 6.2% for social security up to $128,400 in gross income, 1.45% for Medicare. Employee pays no fed and state taxes. Possible felony + jail time for both...
For example: a 35 years old male that has worked for 10 years under the table getting cash entirely. He is planning to retire at 65; He only has 30 years of social security credit left instead of 35 years max (this lowers his retirement benefit).

No offense, I agree with each of your points, but I'd like to play Devil's Advocate and the argument is somewhat tongue-in-cheek:

1. How often is it that a pharmacist makes less than the SS maximum ($128,400)? I completely understand your point if that is their only source of income.

2. Short of a gunshot wound, what wouldn't be covered by standard health insurance, it's just cost shifting onto the employer? That said, how many independents offer even bad health insurance plans? Also, good luck claiming workers comp from even your company. There's a reason why they had to outsource it to a company that is out and out user hateful for claims to work.

3. How many times have you heard stories about positive termination in ways that avoid unemployment insurance? Is that really a benefit if you can never claim it?

4. True, if you want prime rates. For subprime rates, proof of income is not required. During a recent IG review, I was shocked having to see the VA Loan Guarantee Program (LGY) have so little oversight over what documentation was actually submitted in support of the ability to pay down the loan, and what we require is more than apparently the mortgage broker normally requires.

5. Absolutely, but who is likely to audit you? Possibly not the Feds. (I definitely can tell you that MN Revenue and Treasury routinely report their audit results to the IRS for further action, making cash payments really difficult.)
-------------

6. (Really out there) Do you really expect, you, yourself to actually collect Social Security at a meaningful level? No, if that happens, it'll be casino money, but this is a situation where I can't see how this works out like the Greenspan Commission.

-------------------------------------------------------

I see your point, but 20-25% (averaging over the marginals and the state tax) is considerable enough to risk for even us. Even though I think the best way to be patriotic is to not commit crimes and pay your taxes, I completely understand someone gaming the system not just because of greed, but because screw DC and what it stands for. Remember, that in this system, you're only a criminal if you're convicted. And the likelihood of that for white-collar crimes is much lower than your banal assault and robbery beat.

It's not the way you think, your opinion is sound, but the other way is quite viable with different inputs. In other words, to make a buck on the market, is it better to invest in fundamentals or against human stupidity? Turns out that against human stupidity is a viable strategy.
 
Hi I got hired full-time in an independent pharmacy. It's my very first pharmacist job. They offered me 60K while getting trained and 90K later on. Does that sound reasonable to you? I guess you can justify lower pay due to independent pharmacies not being as busy as chains? I'd like hear your thoughts. Thanks.
That is pretty low for a pharmacist, but if it's the difference between being unemployed and working you should take it.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Besides the pay being lower at independents the benefits like health insurance after 3 months and 401k match may not be as good.
 
Let's review how they "sponsor" a H1B and eventually a green card, 3 of my friends paid his own fees and immigration lawyer (illegal) while at the same time paid them about $8 less than market (again illegal, not meeting the prevailing wage for the area and yet they still got their PERM approved with creative payroll). What did I say about indy being shady?

Just because THAT indy is/was shady doesn't mean that all of them are.
 
Hi I got hired full-time in an independent pharmacy. It's my very first pharmacist job. They offered me 60K while getting trained and 90K later on. Does that sound reasonable to you? I guess you can justify lower pay due to independent pharmacies not being as busy as chains? I'd like hear your thoughts. Thanks.
Independent pharmaciest are way better, but I don't think it's worth it to go to school for that many years for that pay and accumulated debt.