Writing own LOR?

[deleted969405]

so one of my lor writers asked me to write the lor as a draft for him. Unfortunately, I need this lor because a lot of my schools require this type of letter. Lets skip the moral issues (if there are any) of this topic. My question is very simple: where in amcas does it state that this is not permitted? Do medical schools specifically state that you cannot do this? has anyone every submitted a lor on amcas, does it ask the LOR writer if teh applicant has contributed to their lor? again, not looking for moral reasoning, just looking for rules. in other words, if a school were to find out i wrote a draft, what would be teh consequences besides an automatic rejection from teh school?

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[907914]

so one of my lor writers asked me to write the lor as a draft for him. Unfortunately, I need this lor because a lot of my schools require this type of letter. Lets skip the moral issues (if there are any) of this topic. My question is very simple: where in amcas does it state that this is not permitted? Do medical schools specifically state that you cannot do this? has anyone every submitted a lor on amcas, does it ask the LOR writer if teh applicant has contributed to their lor? again, not looking for moral reasoning, just looking for rules. in other words, if a school were to find out i wrote a draft, what would be teh consequences besides an automatic rejection from teh school?

No official rules on it as far as I am aware and this is actually a fairly common practice. Write the LOR, give it to someone else to reword it so it doesn’t sound like you wrote it, submit it to the professor, be done with it.

 

[deleted969405]

No official rules on it as far as I am aware and this is actually a fairly common practice. Write the LOR, give it to someone else to reword it so it doesn’t sound like you wrote it, submit it to the professor, be done with it.

Ok but lets say that it does sound like me. what are the consequences?

 

[907914]

Ok but lets say that it does sound like me. what are the consequences?

They will reach out to the professor and ask “did you write an LOR for such and such” and they will say yes. This is very unlikely to happen. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

 

[deleted969405]

They will reach out to the professor and ask “did you write an LOR for such and such” and they will say yes. This is very unlikely to happen. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

Oh I see what you are saying. Basically they would think that I forged the letter then, huh?
Lets say that for whatever reason they think I wrote the letter as a draft but still believe the LOR writer sent it in. How would that affect me?

 

[907914]

Oh I see what you are saying. Basically they would think that I forged the letter then, huh?
Lets say that for whatever reason they think I wrote the letter as a draft but still believe the LOR writer sent it in. How would that affect me?

No, they wouldn’t think that you forged the letter. They would read it, be like “this kid wrote his own letter and didn’t even bother to make it not sound like him. Lazy.” Then they would recognize that it has the professor signature and official letterhead and say “the kid is lazy, but the prof approved it so cool beans.” The letter may not be as heavily weighed, but no one will care beyond that as this is so common. As long as you are not physically forging their signature on fake letterhead with a fake email, then you are fine.

 

[deleted969405]

No, they wouldn’t think that you forged the letter. They would read it, be like “this kid wrote his own letter and didn’t even bother to make it not sound like him. Lazy.” Then they would recognize that it has the professor signature and official letterhead and say “the kid is lazy, but the prof approved it so cool beans.” The letter may not be as heavily weighed, but no one will care beyond that as this is so common. As long as you are not physically forging their signature on fake letterhead with a fake email, then you are fine.

Hmmmmmm I think @Catalystik said in one post "And heaven help you if an adcomm reader recognizes that the style is not similar to that of the same author's previous submissions." may be taking this out of context, but it sounds like there's a very heavy negative action that results if an adcom figures out an applicant wrote it?
Also, how would I respond if this was brought up at an interview lol

 

[907914]

And heaven help you if an adcomm reader recognizes that the style is not similar to that of the same author's previous submissions

Yes, because if it does not match their previous writing style then that means you forged it. If that letter writer has 100 LORs with 100 different writing styles, the ADCOM will recognize that the prof asked you to write it because that is a thing they do. Often.

In any case, you should avoid all out writing an LOR for yourself. Give a list of bullet points and key phrases if they want it. If they don’t ask for anything, don’t give them anything. If they request you give them a draft, then you give them a draft.

 

[907914]

Yes, because if it does not match their previous writing style then that means you forged it. If that letter writer has 100 LORs with 100 different writing styles, the ADCOM will recognize that the prof asked you to write it because that is a thing they do. Often.

In any case, you should avoid all out writing an LOR for yourself. Give a list of bullet points and key phrases if they want it. If they don’t ask for anything, don’t give them anything. If they request you give them a draft, then you give them a draft.

I want to emphasize that I am NOT recommending you write your own LOR. I am stating that if such a thing occurred but was verifiable by the submitting letter writer, the long term consequences are not dire. As far as my understanding goes. Being that Catalystik is tagged, I am likely going to wake up to either being told I am completely wrong or that the advice is sound. We shall see, the anticipation is riveting.

 

[deleted969405]

Yes, because if it does not match their previous writing style then that means you forged it. If that letter writer has 100 LORs with 100 different writing styles, the ADCOM will recognize that the prof asked you to write it because that is a thing they do. Often.

In any case, you should avoid all out writing an LOR for yourself. Give a list of bullet points and key phrases if they want it. If they don’t ask for anything, don’t give them anything. If they request you give them a draft, then you give them a draft.

I see, is that what you did? For most of my professors, I just gave them the guidelines with a few instances in which I have shown each trait

 

[907914]

I see, is that what you did? For most of my professors, I just gave them the guidelines with a few instances in which I have shown each trait

2 of them wanted a resume, one of them JUST wrote about my experiences in our lab, one of them just wrote about our experiences with me shadowing and them as my supervisor for work, one I sat down with and we wrote it together collaboratively in his office as he had only ever written a few, one I submitted a 4 page draft of literally everything positive I had done in the military and he cut it down to a page and a half and reworded it all in to a nice narrative as far as I am concerned.

Just realized I have no female LOR writers...huh...

 

[907914]

I see, is that what you did? For most of my professors, I just gave them the guidelines with a few instances in which I have shown each trait

It really just depends on the letter writer.

 

[deleted969405]

It really just depends on the letter writer.

how do adcoms realize that an applicant has written the letter tho, assuming they don't have previous letters from the faculty member? like, are they that good at spotting fakes?

 

[907914]

how do adcoms realize that an applicant has written the letter tho, assuming they don't have previous letters from the faculty member? like, are they that good at spotting fakes?

If they don’t have any previous letters from the faculty member, the phone number and email appear to correspond to the correct school or facility (and someone on the other end verifies they are that person), the letterhead and signature seem legit, and the writing style is different than that if the applicant, then you have yourself an LOR.

If you could theoretically create 3-4 LORs with fake phone numbers that you own, fake institutional email addresses that you own, forged signatures, unique personality and prose for each letter, forged lettterhead, picking professors or letter writers that somehow have no publications, articles, anything findable via google then you could theoretically submit an entirely fake application.

But applicants are not as smart as we think we are. Keeping track of fake stories, fake people, what you are supposed to know and what you shouldn’t know from the LORs, and so on - it is nigh impossible to fake and, if caught, could potentially lead to revocation of acceptance, and even up to and including medical degree.

 

[deleted969405]

If they don’t have any previous letters from the faculty member, the phone number and email appear to correspond to the correct school or facility (and someone on the other end verifies they are that person), the letterhead and signature seem legit, and the writing style is different than that if the applicant, then you have yourself an LOR.

If you could theoretically create 3-4 LORs with fake phone numbers that you own, fake institutional email addresses that you own, forged signatures, unique personality and prose for each letter, forged lettterhead, picking professors or letter writers that somehow have no publications, articles, anything findable via google then you could theoretically submit an entirely fake application.

But applicants are not as smart as we think we are. Keeping track of fake stories, fake people, what you are supposed to know and what you shouldn’t know from the LORs, and so on - it is nigh impossible to fake and, if caught, could potentially lead to revocation of acceptance, and even up to and including medical degree.

if its brought up in an interview if I wrote the lor, how should i respond? Not gonna lie or anything, but what is the most appropriate thing to say?

 

[907914]

if its brought up in an interview if I wrote the lor, how should i respond? Not gonna lie or anything, but what is the most appropriate thing to say?

“I provided the materials my letter writer asked of me, including a very rough draft of particular talking points.”

That would be my approach.

 

[deleted969405]

“I provided the materials my letter writer asked of me, including a very rough draft of particular talking points.”

That would be my approach.

Dude, number 1, your gonna kill it in the interview, you got a calm head lol. and number 2, thanks, that's really a perfect answer.

 

[Catalystik]

so one of my lor writers asked me to write the lor as a draft for him.
1) My question is very simple: where in amcas does it state that this is not permitted?
2) Do medical schools specifically state that you cannot do this?
3) has anyone every submitted a lor on amcas, does it ask the LOR writer if teh applicant has contributed to their lor?
4) if a school were to find out i wrote a draft, what would be teh consequences besides an automatic rejection from teh school?

1) It doesn't.
2) No.
3) No.
4) No.

 

[Catalystik]

For most of my professors, I just gave them the guidelines with a few instances in which I have shown each trait

There's nothing wrong with that.

Lets say that for whatever reason they think I wrote the letter as a draft but still believe the LOR writer sent it in. How would that affect me?

It would be considered a legitimate letter with the content endorsed by the signer. Its effect on your application would depend on the content.

Hmmmmmm I think @Catalystik said in one post "And heaven help you if an adcomm reader recognizes that the style is not similar to that of the same author's previous submissions."

It could be inferred that the LOR signer did not know you well enough to write a good letter and isn't your strong advocate.

 

[deleted969405]

There's nothing wrong with that.
It would be considered a legitimate letter with the content endorsed by the signer. Its effect on your application would depend on the content.
It could be inferred that the LOR signer did not know you well enough to write a good letter and isn't your strong advocate.

Thank you so much Catalystik, I just want to make sure that I am doing everything by the book!