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does anyone have any experience writing their own LORs? An Alumni to the school I want to apply to has asked me to write my own LOR and he will review and sign it.... I dont know where to begin. HELP!
Writing your own LORs
- Thread starter babagondeh
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Yeah, this happens quite a bit. I had to write 3 of my 6 LORs this past cycle. Basically, try and write from his perspective: "I know babagondeh from so-and-so class or so-and-so EC. babagondeh was (insert adjectives here)...I recommend babagondeh for admission to X medical school"
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huh? why is this person writing you a letter of rec? what is your relationship with this person? why did you ask this person to write you a letter? what did you think this person has seen in you or can convey that is unique?
those are some things you need to answer before you begin writing this and a couple that you should have asked before even asking them to write it.
woah! you had to write THREE?! umm i would actually be very concerned about that because i can't imagine being able to write three recs that sound different from one another. i'd also be concerned that i'd be repeating the same stuff and missing something that someone would see in me had they written the rec instead. luckily i only had to write one and that was pleanty....i had to struggle to make it sound different than my PS!
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I would echo this sentiment. You need to make sure to write from the point of view of a professional. Emphasize why you were particularly extraordinary and why he should support you in attempting to get into medical school.
Best of luck.
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Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. It was rough going, but I'm a decent writer so everything worked out this cycle (5 interviews, 1 acceptance so far).
I actually had no idea people do this.
I knew that grad students will sometimes write letters and have a PI sign it but the person the letter is for writing the letter? That is crazy.
Even if I could write myself an awesome letter and get someone to sign it...I would feel really bad.
On the letter is it mentioned anywhere that the person writing it is not the same person who signed it? When they sign it is it a signature that states they AGREE with what is written or is it suggesting that they actually wrote it? I feel like its almost borderline unethical, even with a signature. Especially if you are wording it from their perspective.
I knew that grad students will sometimes write letters and have a PI sign it but the person the letter is for writing the letter? That is crazy.
Even if I could write myself an awesome letter and get someone to sign it...I would feel really bad.
On the letter is it mentioned anywhere that the person writing it is not the same person who signed it? When they sign it is it a signature that states they AGREE with what is written or is it suggesting that they actually wrote it? I feel like its almost borderline unethical, even with a signature. Especially if you are wording it from their perspective.
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Why would you feel bad? They're the ones telling you to write it and then they sign it.
It's not explicitly mentioned anywhere on the letter, but their signature means that they attest to all the content in the letter. I'm sure med schools realize that professors/PIs are inundated with LOR requests and can't possibly write all of them personally. As long as they sign off on the letter, saying that they agree with this description of the applicant, you should be in the clear.
While legally I guess I would be in the clear, but i would still feel like I am doing something unethical (which is different than something illegal).
if I am writing a letter from the point of view of my PI, i feel like I am being misleading. Even if he signs it. If he wants to 'attest to the description of the candidate' then I should just write a description of myself, have him read it, and then have him sign it saying he agrees with the description. The fact that the letter is written from the point of view of the person who is not writing it is something that I would just have a problem doing.
It's a personal thing I guess. However, I've also never had to experience a huge institution with people constantly flooded with letter requests. i go to a small liberal arts college and my PI and all my faculty were more than happy to spend the time and write a detailed letter about me, and I liked the fact that I knew they had a lot to say because they knew me VERY well. So I guess if I had gone somewhere larger and HAD to do it I would maybe feel differently.
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Therein lies the difference. There is a vast difference between a large institution versus a small liberal arts college. Imagine if you were a professor and you had to write 50-100 LORs. If you actually wrote each one individually, chances are they would start to sound the same or decrease in quality. Logistically, it's just not possible to accomplish.
Besides, the professor/PI is not going to sign an LOR if the student wrote something completely off-base, so in the end, nothing really changes.
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yea, it obviously worked out for you but i was just saying i'd caution future applicants that writing more than one LOR for yourself might not be such a great idea and should be approached with caution.
i'll be rooting for you to get off that waitlist and join me at SB next yr 😀
to all those who think it is "unethical" you should get off your high horse, step off your soap boxes and join the rest of us in reality. unethical would be if you write a LOR and have your prof/PI/etc unknowingly sign it without reading it thinking that he is signing something else. however taking some of the burden off of writing the letter by wording it for him/her is perfectly ethical as long as he/she gets to read it and change it as they wish afterwards. it is also smart because you get to make sure the letter highlights what you feel is missing from your application...and you should always accept a request to write it yourself (but as i stated earlier be wary of accepting more than one such request).
Except that technically the person didn't write it, even though it is written as if he did. Even with a signature I still think the letter is slightly misleading.
Though I will agree that having to write 50-100 LORs would be a daunting task and would force me to reevaluate how I do it. Though I probably would also just have a problem with writing a letter for someone who I only taught in a class or two and had no outside contact with. All in all I can safely say I wouldn't end up at a big institution if I became a teacher I think 🙂
People can ride whatever horse they want to ride. Just because you have no problem with it doesn't mean I should have no problem with it.
Like i said before, the only way I could write one is if I wrote a description OF MYSELF in MY OWN WORDS (not pretending that I am my professor) and then the professor signs it with a short sentence basically agreeing with the description I gave of myself.
Why isn't the processed handled that way? Why do you write in the point of view of the professor?
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Writing your own LOR is actually fairly standard. Typically, the person requesting the LOR submits it to the recommender, the recommender edits/adds as appropriate, and then signs and prints it on their institution's letterhead. The person giving the recommendation, though perhaps not writing the original draft, does check to make sure there are no total fabrications before signing it.
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Oh, I certainly don't advise future applicants to do what I did. Sorry if my words came out that way.
Thanks for the well wishes skin, but I'm fairly certain I'm going to matriculate at DS this fall. We'll see though!
That's another thing with big institutions. In science classes with 200-300 students, how exactly are you supposed to get to know your professor? Office hours are one option, but not if every student actually went and flooded the professor's office. Two of my LORs were for science classes where I got A's in the class, but didn't really know my professor outside of class (not my fault, I worked full-time and went to school at night, so I couldn't go to office hours even if I wanted to).
I think to expect full transparency in this process is unrealistic. Medical schools are aware that LORs aren't always directly written by the professor/PI, but to blatantly advertise that would put certain applicants at a disadvantage (not necessarily through any fault of their own, as in my example above).
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For similar reasons as to why the president's speech writers write from the perspective of the president: Neither the speech nor the letter make sense coming from the person that actually put pen to paper.
Dear Adcoms,
I am a strong applicant for medical school. Throughout my college career, I have done lots of great things. I recommend myself for medical school.
Sincerely,
Professor Soandso, PhD
Well it would be more like what you said and then at the end have a sentence where it says "I, professor such and such, state that i agree with the above description of student A and wholeheartedly recommend them for medical school" and then they sign.
Although it's not the student's fault that the prof asks them to write it, it does go against the whole "confidentiality" thing that requires us to have letters sent directly to schools or interfolio.... Why bother having us pay for a letter service in the name of confidentiality when it's acceptable for us to write them ourselves?
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this isn't how it works...they want a letter from the referee not from you
i think you will need to drop the holier-than-thou attitude soon enough....the recommender who asked me to write my own LOR was telling me that he basically wrote most of his recs for residency and fellowship (he was a doctor not a professor)
Oh, I certainly don't advise future applicants to do what I did. Sorry if my words came out that way.
Thanks for the well wishes skin, but I'm fairly certain I'm going to matriculate at DS this fall. We'll see though!
That's another thing with big institutions. In science classes with 200-300 students, how exactly are you supposed to get to know your professor? Office hours are one option, but not if every student actually went and flooded the professor's office. Two of my LORs were for science classes where I got A's in the class, but didn't really know my professor outside of class (not my fault, I worked full-time and went to school at night, so I couldn't go to office hours even if I wanted to).
I think to expect full transparency in this process is unrealistic. Medical schools are aware that LORs aren't always directly written by the professor/PI, but to blatantly advertise that would put certain applicants at a disadvantage (not necessarily through any fault of their own, as in my example above).
So what I don't get is...what did you write in the letters from those professors? If all they knew is the grade that you got how can they sign anything beyond something that says "this student got a good grade in my class and did well in all the work"
While I admit that it must be difficult at a large school...I just don't see how the professor can sign something based on things they actually don't know.
So then you are being intentionally misleading because you are given them a letter "from the referee" that is NOT from the referee.
The referee signed your letter sure, but they could also sign a description you write about yourself which SHOULD have the same effect, except for in your case you "pretend" that they actually wrote it.
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When you submit the letter to your recommender, you have no way of knowing if they changed anything, so you actually don't know the contents of the letter placed and sealed in the envelope.
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excellent example
well not ALL your writers will be comfortable with you writing or seeing the letter but if your referee is comfortable with you reading the letter or writing it yourself then it is completely up to them to do so
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Well, that's the tricky line that you have to walk. Basically you have to say complimentary things that sound unique but can really be applied to any good student. Easier said than done. Again, me writing 3 LORs is probably a little excessive, but chances are many applicants will have to do at least one of their own.
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I'll refer you to TooMuchResearch's example of the president's speech
...when Obama goes up there and gives a speech he agrees with and believes every word he is saying even though he usually hasn't written most of them himself and we take them as being Obama's words not his speechwriters'.
(i'm just saying Obama 'cause he's the current president, not implying that the others didn't have their speeches written for them....especially bush who wouldn't have been able to [and often failed to] string three sentences together on his own)
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Um... no. In the cases where I've written my own letter, the professor has always stated his clear intention to edit the letter if needed. In other words, I didn't get to simply write whatever I wanted. He always had the final authority as to what was being included in the letter.
This, of course, is my own experience. I would expect that most professors do the same thing. I would hardly consider this unethical or misleading, especially considering they consent that everything is at least somewhat agreeable to them.
I feel like in the case of presidential speeches everyone knows that the president uses a speech writer to craft the speeches. It is a standard thing.
In this situation, not all letters are written by the student. If the ADCOM holds up two letters there is no way to distinguish between one that is written by a student about themselves and then just merely signed and the other which is written by the professor. The fact that they can't tell that the one letter isn't the professor actually writing it is, in my opinion, misleading.
I'm not trying to convince anyone of my view, I'm just stating how I feel about the process. I really didn't know it actually existed, and am honestly just very surprised. I'm not trying to ride some high horse and in fact I think the person trying to get me to get off my "high horse" is really the one that needs to get of his own. I think it is far worse to try to convince someone they are wrong and you are right then it is to just state that you have your own view on the issue.
as SkinMD mentioned, there is no "confidentiality" thing. There is no requirement that letters of recommendation be confidential. Legally, you have a right to read all letters of recommendation. You can waive this right if you want to. Many letter-writers do not feel comfortable writing honest letters if you don't waive the right, and they, in turn, have the right to refuse to write for you if you don't waive your right.
Waiving your right to read a letter of recommendation is not a committment to not read the letter. Instead, it just means you have no legal recourse if the writer refuses to let you read it.
Letters do not have to be sent directly to schools or uploaded to a letter service if the letter writer does not insist upon it. If they hand you the letter and tell you to put it in an envelope, seal it, and mail it, you're free to do that.
As skinMD also said (I seem to agree with you a lot), writing your own letters is NOT a big deal, get off your high horses and chill the frick out. geez people, it's perfectly ethical, if the writer agrees with and signs the letter, then the letter is a valid recommendation, period.
Ahh Ok. I wasn't aware that it wasn't a requirement from schools, but just a letter writer's preference.👍
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As has already been mentioned, it is standard practice to, on occasion, write the first draft of your own LOR. It has been going on for quite a while. In fact, I was speaking with my advisor and she told me that as a graduate student, she had to write herself a LOR. Just because you have no knowledge of a practice does not mean it is not a standard practice.
