Hey everyone! It would be great if all u residents/interns would write up reviews for this website! I've found it so helpful so far, but still missing a lot!
thanks everyone! 🙂
http://www.scutwork.com
thanks everyone! 🙂
http://www.scutwork.com
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CycleTrack and SDN are teaming up to make medical school admissions more transparent and accessible! Read the announcement to learn how we’re supporting the future of CycleTrack’s free application-tracking tools .
www.scutwork.com
Started by hzma
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*drags feet*
But the Search function isn't back up yet! 😉
I will, eventually, I promise. Maybe #27 on my To-Do list, but I will get there.
But the Search function isn't back up yet! 😉
I will, eventually, I promise. Maybe #27 on my To-Do list, but I will get there.
yeah yeah I'll get there and it will be thorough.
B
b&ierstiefel
mine is up, was up, is up again, was up, and should be up again soon.
apparently, when you add stuff to the review of a program, it gets pulled off the net and then it has to be re-approved again before it gets posted.
beware, my review is a very detailed long one. and i may add to it as the year progresses!
but hey, people need complete, balanced reviews of programs so that they can make the best informed decision for themselves as they go through the match.
apparently, when you add stuff to the review of a program, it gets pulled off the net and then it has to be re-approved again before it gets posted.
beware, my review is a very detailed long one. and i may add to it as the year progresses!
but hey, people need complete, balanced reviews of programs so that they can make the best informed decision for themselves as they go through the match.
So I've been looking over Scutwork.com to help get myself back in the applicant frame of mind.
By review, programs seem to be averaging 4 stars.
I could write a review in the general "Schedule/Teaching/Atmosphere/Conclusion" format, and it would look like this:
Schedule: hours on AP worse than on CP, but still less than 80 hours per week
Teaching: good one-on-one teaching with almost daily conferences of variable quality
Atmopshere: friendly resident-resident and resident-attending atmosphere with the usual rare oddity
Conclusion: I rank this program 4 stars
etc.
By ranking it 4 stars, I would be placing it solidly in the realm of the average path program. So rankings, as always, mean diddly squat.
Such a review would not raise any red flags, but is not particularly inspiring or helpful either (I think).
What I'm interested in hearing is - what specifically do YOU as an applicant think would be helpful for future applicants to know?
By review, programs seem to be averaging 4 stars.
I could write a review in the general "Schedule/Teaching/Atmosphere/Conclusion" format, and it would look like this:
Schedule: hours on AP worse than on CP, but still less than 80 hours per week
Teaching: good one-on-one teaching with almost daily conferences of variable quality
Atmopshere: friendly resident-resident and resident-attending atmosphere with the usual rare oddity
Conclusion: I rank this program 4 stars
etc.
By ranking it 4 stars, I would be placing it solidly in the realm of the average path program. So rankings, as always, mean diddly squat.
Such a review would not raise any red flags, but is not particularly inspiring or helpful either (I think).
What I'm interested in hearing is - what specifically do YOU as an applicant think would be helpful for future applicants to know?
deschutes said:
Great point deschutes. Many of the scut work reviews (while I'm glad someone took the time to wrrite one) are not terribly helpful. I can only speak for myself but here are some of the things that I would want to know...
1. Instead of saying "our grads get fellowships" say something about which ones and where. Also, since many folks do fellowships say something about the postfellowship job placement. Give a general geographic area of where the majority of these jobs are (national, regional, etc) and if they are small groups, large groups, academic, assembly-line labs, etc.
2. Instead of "hours are under 80" give a more detailed "day-in-the-life" on surg path such as "7:15 arrive/breakfast" etc. Give an idea of previewing time, gross time, etc. When you stay past 6pm or so what exactly is that time spent doing (eg-grossing, previewing, scut, etc)?
3. Instead of "resident-resident and resident-faculty interactions are good" comment more specifically. Like - do you have parties together (with faculty?), are there cliques, are all the residents happy (obviously not all are) and for the ones that aren't what is their beef?
I know it is hard to say bad things about your (not you specifically deschutes) program because it is the one you chose and it makes you look bad if you don't like it, but applicants really do appreciate you putting yourself out there to help someone else. In general the more specific the better, as far as I'm concerned. I think generally, if we're all being honest, we want to know that 1) we'll be educated there 2) we'll like the work environment 3) we'll get a good job when we're done ('good job' means different things to different people though).
B
b&ierstiefel
Not to be condescending...as an applicant, there are many many issues in the work-flow dynamics that you will not understand (unless you have a lot of pathology experience via a PSF or extensive pathology experience in another life). You can't truly appreciate the things in our workday that annoy residents. You will not fully appreciate these things until you have already matched and it's too late. And it's not your fault...it's a consequence of the state of medical education with respect to pathology.
The problem is that medical school does NOT teach you how to be a pathologist. Medical students are immersed in a clinical environment (clinics, wards) most of the time. The details and intricacies of gross specimen processing or clinical pathology and the issues inherent to such are largely unbeknownst to med students. Hence, applicants cannot ask good work-flow related questions at interviews...and it's not their fault!
Hence, for an applicant, generic comments like, "oh yeah, we all get along...oh yeah we all go out drinking...oh yeah, the faculty are really friendly...oh yeah, the faculty write lots of books...oh yeah, we have good research here...oh yeah, we get to preview all our cases (oh and BTW, that is bullsh*t at some programs which have these super-express style processors and have a very short turnaround time) and on and on and on" are the stuff you have to go on. The same ol' stuff you'll hear at every program. It's quite sad actually. And how the HELL are YOU supposed to make an informed decision!?!?!?!
It's almost as though you need to go into the whole process with some semblance of a rank list. You can't approach this with an ab initio point of view. And that's why people bring up questions about "prestige" of institutions and make yaah have a heartattack...because as stupid of a barometer some people may think it is, it is a barometer nonetheless. Oh and of course, you get some kind of gut impression when you visit a place..."oh at such and such program, i got a warm and fuzzy feeling...i love this program...i wanna marry this program."
The problem is that medical school does NOT teach you how to be a pathologist. Medical students are immersed in a clinical environment (clinics, wards) most of the time. The details and intricacies of gross specimen processing or clinical pathology and the issues inherent to such are largely unbeknownst to med students. Hence, applicants cannot ask good work-flow related questions at interviews...and it's not their fault!
Hence, for an applicant, generic comments like, "oh yeah, we all get along...oh yeah we all go out drinking...oh yeah, the faculty are really friendly...oh yeah, the faculty write lots of books...oh yeah, we have good research here...oh yeah, we get to preview all our cases (oh and BTW, that is bullsh*t at some programs which have these super-express style processors and have a very short turnaround time) and on and on and on" are the stuff you have to go on. The same ol' stuff you'll hear at every program. It's quite sad actually. And how the HELL are YOU supposed to make an informed decision!?!?!?!
It's almost as though you need to go into the whole process with some semblance of a rank list. You can't approach this with an ab initio point of view. And that's why people bring up questions about "prestige" of institutions and make yaah have a heartattack...because as stupid of a barometer some people may think it is, it is a barometer nonetheless. Oh and of course, you get some kind of gut impression when you visit a place..."oh at such and such program, i got a warm and fuzzy feeling...i love this program...i wanna marry this program."
AndyMilonakis said:
Thanks for stating that outright Andy. Any time someone posts about 'prestige' or whatever on any SDN forum (not just here) they take a lot of heat based on 'the best program is the one that fits you best' or 'don't pay attention to prestige it doesn't matter' and stuff like that. I appreciate all those points and I appreciate the fact that residency choice is largely dependant on personal factors. However (and maybe I'm the only one that feels like this), most of the time I feel like I am being sold something. Anytime I ask a resident at my program about something it is always biased and I feel like the "full court press" is on. An anonymous message board (or semi-anonymous) actually seems like a place where I can get less-biased information (though not unbiased). As such, this is why you see me asking frank, to-the-point questions. I would hope that I would get more frank answers than if I was asking a resident at their program in front of other residents. BUT, like you said, I don't even know what questions to ask; I don't know what really matters in residency; and there is no way that I could know. Without input we would all have to go by the info we get from our home programs, which are all trying to sell us on staying there. personally I will be most impressed by a program that has some game and the approach that "We are confident we will match good applicants, we hope that you like us but we're not going to sell, just present confidently and not knock other programs". Folks at my home program have tried to tell me that I shouldn't go to a Boston/Harvard program, or to Mayo, or to Hopkins because they will not train me well. I mean come on, lets at least be honest. Any program with game will be like "yeah those are good programs, but we feel like we are good too and here is why".
Sorry that turned into a venting- rant. I just want to say that I really appreciate all of you residents who take time to help out and post on SDN. Seriously it is very refreshing. I wasn't trying to be all high and mighty in my previous post nor in this one. I'm sure that you all remember being frustrated by lack of information and thinking at some point "I don't know anything about any of these places, maybe I'll just go with the big name". Even if in the end you went with a "smaller" name for more noble reasons, didn't the thought at least cross your mind at some point? I think that is where a lot of us applicants are. But now that I think about it, most of you residents (while you know more than us) still don't have perfect information in order to make comments. And I can understand why it is frustrating to have applicants ask the same questions over and over year after year. I suppose in the end you just have to gather your guts, make a decision and move on.
Seriously guys, thanks for all of your input. 👍
B
b&ierstiefel
Well in some respects, I think prestige of an institution does not make a person prestigious. I agree that "you make your own prestige". But when you put these two things together where you go to a top program (and I'm not going to put "top" in quotes anymore, because I'm not gonna **** you...I do believe there are top programs!) and you perform well and you make your own prestige, you are in a prime position to have many more doors open for you. What makes a program prestigious? Well, first of all, having powerful, high profile people at your department who will reward you for your good work and use their connections to help you get your next job! Yes, you might be a nice person. Yes, you might be a hard worker. Yes, you may have read Rosai 15 times. But look, when you apply for jobs, if you have a heavyweight attending behind your back, picking up the phone for you, and adding legitimacy to your application, you will go places. That is why I am at a fundamental disagreement with those who say "prestige doesn't matter." Instead, I prescribe to the belief that prestige (and connections) helps. Of course, you have to pull your own weight too.drPLUM said:
Anyways, I may be in the minority of folks who hold this opinion...that's fine. I know yaah and others will disagree with me but it doesn't change the fact that I respect them and I am always willing to respectfully disagree. Plus, when was the last time you and any given friend agreed on every single issue? Exactly.
Oh BTW, the assclown who said that Hopkins doesn't train you well...give them a nice warm cup of STFU. Hopkins provides great training!
Andy, you may be surprised but I am not in disagreement with you. There are definitely different levels of programs. Where I get annoyed is when people try to stratify the best programs even further, as if where a program ranks on someone's arbitrary 1-10 list makes one bit of difference. It doesn't, because different people will have different opinions. My point has always been that there are a lot of good programs, not 3 or 4, and I think you agree with me on that too. There are probably 20-25 programs around the country that can and should be considered more elite than others. That being said though, that doesn't mean they are the best fit for one person in particular, nor does it mean that the quality of training is better there. The best programs are they way they are because of a few factors:
1) Tradition - in terms of teaching and academic excellence, etc
2) Volume
3) The staff (leading researchers, authors, experts, etc)
4) Collaboration or cooperation with other fields at the institution
5) Quality of residents and the residency experience
I have heard from many people that some of the famous programs, like Hopkins or MGH or BWH do not provide the best training - although when they say this they are usually talking about training people for a private practice career, not academics. If you ask the same people about a career in academics they will change their tune. Of course, if you ask any program director at a famous academic program they will most likely say they train great community physicians as well and provide evidence to back this up. So another point I constantly make is not to take one person's opinion as factual, whether this opinion is glowing or vindictive or somewhere in between. A lot of times you only have one opinion to go on, but you have to weigh everything people tell you with a lot of consideration. The saying that "all politics is local" is still valid here - if you want to live your life after residency in Alabama, going to UCSF for example isn't going to give you a huge advantage on finding a job in Alabama. If you're applying for a job in Alabama, it helps to train there and know the big names in the field within the state. But at the same time, the world is shrinking, and pathologists around the country know each other - getting an academic job is often helped by who you know and who you trained with.
I will still maintain, however, that going to an elite program shouldn't hold near as much weight as other factors - such as where you want to live, how you mesh with the program, what kind of career you want, etc.
1) Tradition - in terms of teaching and academic excellence, etc
2) Volume
3) The staff (leading researchers, authors, experts, etc)
4) Collaboration or cooperation with other fields at the institution
5) Quality of residents and the residency experience
I have heard from many people that some of the famous programs, like Hopkins or MGH or BWH do not provide the best training - although when they say this they are usually talking about training people for a private practice career, not academics. If you ask the same people about a career in academics they will change their tune. Of course, if you ask any program director at a famous academic program they will most likely say they train great community physicians as well and provide evidence to back this up. So another point I constantly make is not to take one person's opinion as factual, whether this opinion is glowing or vindictive or somewhere in between. A lot of times you only have one opinion to go on, but you have to weigh everything people tell you with a lot of consideration. The saying that "all politics is local" is still valid here - if you want to live your life after residency in Alabama, going to UCSF for example isn't going to give you a huge advantage on finding a job in Alabama. If you're applying for a job in Alabama, it helps to train there and know the big names in the field within the state. But at the same time, the world is shrinking, and pathologists around the country know each other - getting an academic job is often helped by who you know and who you trained with.
I will still maintain, however, that going to an elite program shouldn't hold near as much weight as other factors - such as where you want to live, how you mesh with the program, what kind of career you want, etc.
B
b&ierstiefel
Me and you are on the same page. Coincidentally, I made a very similar remark and point in my scutwork review.yaah said:
Enjoy the game...although I feel NW is gonna spank us today, I'm always hopeful that we will ruin their homecoming this year.
drPLUM - I asked the question for a reason so I thought it was great that finally someone could tell me what they wanted to hear so that I could incorporate the comments. You weren't being high and mighty 🙂
Try this for honesty.
Consider the regulars.
yaah interviewed at UMich/BWH but didn't apply to UMN.
Andy interviewed at UMich/BWH but didn't apply to UMN.
I interviewed at UMN, didn't apply to BWH and wasn't interviewed at UMich.
All of us got our first choice. So in a way, we got what we wanted despite making not-completely-informed decisions.
yaah is at UMich doing AP/CP. Apart from the occasional rant about platelet parameters, the boob service and lymph nodes, he appears on SDN to be happy.
He's more diagnostically-oriented (this assessment based solely on what I know of him from his posts), and has done some translational-type research but doesn't necessarily care to make a career out of it.
Andy is Dr. Dr. Cell, at BWH doing straight-track AP. He went there in the hope of building research connections - which is perhaps what this "prestige" business translates into for him (vs. prestige = tertiary referral diagnostics for others). He wants to get back to doing basic science research in a lab 100% of the time. Currently, he's grossing asses and covering frozen section call, and for the most part will be doing this throughout his first two years (again, this assessment based solely on what I know from his posts).
Now, this sounds like a mismatch.
But are the gripes truly because he is unhappy with his program, or do we notice his gripes more because he posts them? (The rant threads will always be more popular than the rave threads.)
And when you consider the situation, is there really ANY straight-track AP program in the country that would allow him to spend protected time in a basic science lab as a resident? (There are research tracks at some places, but that's not the point here.)
I'll leave the physician-scientist theme for awhile and close by saying that not being able to do basic science research during residency is not the same as saying a program is bad.
And then, you have me.
I am a well-camouflaged Canadian grad, and while not being Canadian can pass myself off as one.
Never having been in the US, SDN (and to a much lesser degree, Scutwork) were my primary sources of inside scoops on residency programs. (Hence my Search function proficiency 😎 😉 )
I had vague ideas of wanting a solid program. I didn't need a Name (and by Name I mean the handful of places everyone's mother-in-law and their dog around the world has heard of).
I applied to a couple of Names (I doubted they would take me, so my "barometer" was no longer prestige) but I was also a little wary because with Names generally come long hours and hierarchy (and "long hours" and "hierarchy" are different for everyone).
I was quite spoilt in Calgary because the department had an almost ridiculously open-door policy. I had been encouraged to do straight-track AP because I couldn't see myself doing private practice. I was - and am - interested in the type of research that Andy scorns 😉 but it makes me happy.
In the end, I chose to do AP/CP at an Upper Midwestern University, where half the residents are married, many with kids. Nothing noble about it 🙂
This seems counter-intuitive from a "getting ahead" perspective.
However, I have a theory (currently being put into practice) that if research and publishing (of the translational variety) is going to be done in one's spare time, then one actually needs to allow oneself that spare time. If residency is not going to give me protected time, then I will have to generate it myself somehow.
Hence, AP/CP. And interspersed throughout the 4 years, instead of a year of AP, then a year of CP, then another year of AP etc.
I had already established the usual schedule/teaching/atmopshere grading for the programs I was looking at, and had a vague rank list based on that. The top 4 were based more than not on location (i.e. geography, city/town, local culture).
I also used "soft markers" to assess programs - i.e.
- Midwest meant more flexibility, less competition
- gender balances mean a more balanced workstyle.
- 4 sites (uni/county/private/VA) means people are at least a little laid-back about your turning up late on a new rotation from getting lost.
- The 3AMG:3IMG ratio meant I had a chance of getting in.
The PD said the combined surg path volume between the 4 sites was about 42k - and as an aside, recommended seeing between 20-60k. I thought that sounded about right.
Residents either stayed for fellowships, or in the most recent class went to Mayo and Sloan-Kettering. Fellows stayed for jobs. That was good enough for me. I have to leave the country anyway.
So what can I say that is bad about my program to achieve some credibility? I can't remark on surg path since I haven't done it yet. Being a first-year, I don't know the people who left except that the chief resident who went to lunch with me went to Sloan-Kettering for surg path.
My primary concern about my program was the flexibility and sites. The 4 sites are vastly different from one another and I only got to see the U on interview day. Ask if you can see the other sites if any of you are interviewing here. I can't vouch for how much it would influence your decision though!
The offsites are about 10-15 minutes drive from the U (which you return to for conferences about 3 days/week), and it's mostly CP rotations that take place offsite (the exception being surg path).
We can certainly start a "Day In The Life Of..." type thread; I've always felt this would be helpful throughout the application process, and I've been meaning to find yaah's Surg Path Day post and copy it into a new thread now that I have two rotations so far that I can comment on. The reason a thread like this would be helpful is that various rotations are so wildly different from one another that it's the only real way to compare them is the daily workflow.
[Addendum]The moral of the story - and you are all going to hate me for this, especially as Rank-List Day approaches - is that you have to know what you want.
This is of course, easier in retrospect. But that's life for ya.
Try this for honesty.
Consider the regulars.
yaah interviewed at UMich/BWH but didn't apply to UMN.
Andy interviewed at UMich/BWH but didn't apply to UMN.
I interviewed at UMN, didn't apply to BWH and wasn't interviewed at UMich.
All of us got our first choice. So in a way, we got what we wanted despite making not-completely-informed decisions.
yaah is at UMich doing AP/CP. Apart from the occasional rant about platelet parameters, the boob service and lymph nodes, he appears on SDN to be happy.
He's more diagnostically-oriented (this assessment based solely on what I know of him from his posts), and has done some translational-type research but doesn't necessarily care to make a career out of it.
Andy is Dr. Dr. Cell, at BWH doing straight-track AP. He went there in the hope of building research connections - which is perhaps what this "prestige" business translates into for him (vs. prestige = tertiary referral diagnostics for others). He wants to get back to doing basic science research in a lab 100% of the time. Currently, he's grossing asses and covering frozen section call, and for the most part will be doing this throughout his first two years (again, this assessment based solely on what I know from his posts).
Now, this sounds like a mismatch.
But are the gripes truly because he is unhappy with his program, or do we notice his gripes more because he posts them? (The rant threads will always be more popular than the rave threads.)
And when you consider the situation, is there really ANY straight-track AP program in the country that would allow him to spend protected time in a basic science lab as a resident? (There are research tracks at some places, but that's not the point here.)
I'll leave the physician-scientist theme for awhile and close by saying that not being able to do basic science research during residency is not the same as saying a program is bad.
And then, you have me.
I am a well-camouflaged Canadian grad, and while not being Canadian can pass myself off as one.
Never having been in the US, SDN (and to a much lesser degree, Scutwork) were my primary sources of inside scoops on residency programs. (Hence my Search function proficiency 😎 😉 )
I had vague ideas of wanting a solid program. I didn't need a Name (and by Name I mean the handful of places everyone's mother-in-law and their dog around the world has heard of).
I applied to a couple of Names (I doubted they would take me, so my "barometer" was no longer prestige) but I was also a little wary because with Names generally come long hours and hierarchy (and "long hours" and "hierarchy" are different for everyone).
I was quite spoilt in Calgary because the department had an almost ridiculously open-door policy. I had been encouraged to do straight-track AP because I couldn't see myself doing private practice. I was - and am - interested in the type of research that Andy scorns 😉 but it makes me happy.
In the end, I chose to do AP/CP at an Upper Midwestern University, where half the residents are married, many with kids. Nothing noble about it 🙂
This seems counter-intuitive from a "getting ahead" perspective.
However, I have a theory (currently being put into practice) that if research and publishing (of the translational variety) is going to be done in one's spare time, then one actually needs to allow oneself that spare time. If residency is not going to give me protected time, then I will have to generate it myself somehow.
Hence, AP/CP. And interspersed throughout the 4 years, instead of a year of AP, then a year of CP, then another year of AP etc.
I had already established the usual schedule/teaching/atmopshere grading for the programs I was looking at, and had a vague rank list based on that. The top 4 were based more than not on location (i.e. geography, city/town, local culture).
I also used "soft markers" to assess programs - i.e.
- Midwest meant more flexibility, less competition
- gender balances mean a more balanced workstyle.
- 4 sites (uni/county/private/VA) means people are at least a little laid-back about your turning up late on a new rotation from getting lost.
- The 3AMG:3IMG ratio meant I had a chance of getting in.
The PD said the combined surg path volume between the 4 sites was about 42k - and as an aside, recommended seeing between 20-60k. I thought that sounded about right.
Residents either stayed for fellowships, or in the most recent class went to Mayo and Sloan-Kettering. Fellows stayed for jobs. That was good enough for me. I have to leave the country anyway.
So what can I say that is bad about my program to achieve some credibility? I can't remark on surg path since I haven't done it yet. Being a first-year, I don't know the people who left except that the chief resident who went to lunch with me went to Sloan-Kettering for surg path.
My primary concern about my program was the flexibility and sites. The 4 sites are vastly different from one another and I only got to see the U on interview day. Ask if you can see the other sites if any of you are interviewing here. I can't vouch for how much it would influence your decision though!
The offsites are about 10-15 minutes drive from the U (which you return to for conferences about 3 days/week), and it's mostly CP rotations that take place offsite (the exception being surg path).
We can certainly start a "Day In The Life Of..." type thread; I've always felt this would be helpful throughout the application process, and I've been meaning to find yaah's Surg Path Day post and copy it into a new thread now that I have two rotations so far that I can comment on. The reason a thread like this would be helpful is that various rotations are so wildly different from one another that it's the only real way to compare them is the daily workflow.
[Addendum]The moral of the story - and you are all going to hate me for this, especially as Rank-List Day approaches - is that you have to know what you want.
This is of course, easier in retrospect. But that's life for ya.
Andy, deschutes, yaah...
You guys are great, really. Thanks for being so candid. I know it takes time to sit and type all of this stuff in for random people that you don't know.
As far as adding credibility deschutes, you already have plenty of that. I wasn't trying to get all "x-files" and "trust no one" and stuff. 🙂 Also- great review, just cut and paste to scutwork, if you ask me.
Andy, I read your BWH comments on scutwork and I was very impressed- very fair and balanced. From now on if anyone asks you about BWH you already have it typed out, just give the link.
Yaah I think you are right in that all politics are local. That is important for us all to think about in this process. For me though, I'm not really sure where I want to land in the future, so I suppose I need to keep my options open.
Thanks for helping us all through this process. My first interview is this week and I'm ready to get this started.
You guys are great, really. Thanks for being so candid. I know it takes time to sit and type all of this stuff in for random people that you don't know.
As far as adding credibility deschutes, you already have plenty of that. I wasn't trying to get all "x-files" and "trust no one" and stuff. 🙂 Also- great review, just cut and paste to scutwork, if you ask me.
Andy, I read your BWH comments on scutwork and I was very impressed- very fair and balanced. From now on if anyone asks you about BWH you already have it typed out, just give the link.
Yaah I think you are right in that all politics are local. That is important for us all to think about in this process. For me though, I'm not really sure where I want to land in the future, so I suppose I need to keep my options open.
Thanks for helping us all through this process. My first interview is this week and I'm ready to get this started.
Haha I just saw it too - Four stars all around!drPLUM said:
I think it's just a reflection of the people who go into path that we want to be above average, but not overly-enthusiastic.
B
b&ierstiefel
I wake up from a nap to see that there is this really really long ass post where me is mentioned. Interesting.
I'm not unhappy. I value the education and training I am getting here, should I end up using it in the long run.
OK, that Michigan-NWern game better be aired here!
I'm not unhappy. I value the education and training I am getting here, should I end up using it in the long run.
OK, that Michigan-NWern game better be aired here!
B
b&ierstiefel
And if there's something I can mention in that already long review, let me know. I can always add **** to it.drPLUM said:
Thanks very much Andy for such a useful review. We really appreciate your time. 👍
B
b&ierstiefel
Yeah, I was on the molecular rotation this week. I had a lot of free time.beary said:
My liver is busted.
Yes, I thought it might catch your attention 😛AndyMilonakis said:
I never said you were. I hope you (and everyone else!) realizes this. I was being rhetorical.AndyMilonakis said:
Oh I agree. Which is why I laughed, because as I previously noted, the reviews on Scutwork.com have "4 stars" as their mean, median and mode 🙂 And we're quite happy with where we are (i.e. above average), but not overboardly-enthusiastic.AndyMilonakis said:
yaah, andy, deschutes, drPlum--what an ENORMOUSLY helpful thread!!
This process seems more confusing everyday; and I haven't been on my first interview yet. Come Thursday, all that will change.
Thanks again for the candid information!
This process seems more confusing everyday; and I haven't been on my first interview yet. Come Thursday, all that will change.
Thanks again for the candid information!
I'm actually surprised no one has asked what these "20-25 more elite programs" are 🙂
yaah said:
deschutes said:
They can guess. If I put up my list I will offend someone, probably because I left out NYC or California programs that I know nothing about. So it's pointless to even try. As I have suggested before: Open up Sternberg or the fascicles or major textbooks and see where the folks work.
OK, bit the bullet and wrote up a "concise" 😉 review of here on there.
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b&ierstiefel
I see you gave your program a 4 stars as well. I'm curious as to what you wrote in your review...actually, I'm not. It wouldn't affect things here one bit.yaah said:
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b&ierstiefel
It's not only that. But think of it...are you people really willing to base where you will be living for the next 4+ years of your life based on something that is said here? First of all, we don't know everything about every other program. A lot of what we know is from what has been said here when we were applying, from hearsay, or whatever we were able to pick up from the interview trail. And lemme tell ya, I'm sure there are flawed opinions that spread around because people are willing to perpetuate them...blindly.yaah said:
I mean c'mon...if I were to say, here are what I think the top 5 programs are, people would disagree and you would be even more confused. Nothing would be accomplished. Even if nobody qualified my list, would you seriously allow the opinion of one windbag dingbat like myself sway your rank list? Anyways, it is pointless for any one of us here to tell you what we think the best programs are. That discussion needs to happen between you and your faculty adviser...assuming you find a good one who is willing to give you straight-up, objective information and opinions given your long-term interests.
Seriously, if I went around saying that I became king because some watery bint lobbed a scimitar at me...OK I better stop now.
You get the point.
AndyMilonakis said:
There is no such thing as a 5 star program. Well, theoretically possible but not practically possible. It's like the 10/10 pain scale. There is no such thing as 10/10 pain because if there is 10/10 pain you are probably unable to speak and are not in condition to be asked to quantify your pain on an arbitrary scale. Thus, when I used to see a patient who said their pain was 10/10, I immediately subtracted 3 at least. The actual pain scale goes 1,2,3,4,5,10,7,6,8,9. Interesting that 6 is worse than 7, but I discovered that anyone who used the number 6 was generally someone trying to stifle their pain.
So it is with ranking programs.
yaah said:
Last week I had a pt tell me their pain was a 6.3. I am serious. What does that mean? (It had previously been a 7, and had somewhat improved, but I guess not a whole integer of improvement).
Yaah I read your scutwork post. Talk about some detail! I really think that is the kind of post that will really help future applicants. I'll try to post at least somewhat as well when I have something to say. 🙂
For some reason, I am much less stressed out because of this thread. I think it just let me blow off some steam or something. Here is a nonstressed out question. I will qualify it by saying that I realize that no one has perfect information or can give a perfect answer. Nevertheless, I'd like to hear any thoughts or musings...
I have been told two things repeatedly by everyone I've asked. One, "all politics are local" or "do residency where you want to practice". And two, "be geographically flexible when looking for a job" or "prepare to move". How do you all see these truths of pathology being reconciled? Why do residency where you want to practice if you are going to have to move for a job anyway?
Seriously, this question is out of sheer curiosity. I'm not trying to be all like "give me an absolute guarenteed answer" or anything.
For some reason, I am much less stressed out because of this thread. I think it just let me blow off some steam or something. Here is a nonstressed out question. I will qualify it by saying that I realize that no one has perfect information or can give a perfect answer. Nevertheless, I'd like to hear any thoughts or musings...
I have been told two things repeatedly by everyone I've asked. One, "all politics are local" or "do residency where you want to practice". And two, "be geographically flexible when looking for a job" or "prepare to move". How do you all see these truths of pathology being reconciled? Why do residency where you want to practice if you are going to have to move for a job anyway?
Seriously, this question is out of sheer curiosity. I'm not trying to be all like "give me an absolute guarenteed answer" or anything.
I just read the review of South Dakota. I now have a new criteria for evaluating programs. Screw prestige, tell me how good the Mexican food is.
I hereby submit that we debate programs solely on Mexican food quality.
I hereby submit that we debate programs solely on Mexican food quality.
The short answer is, how much you set store by geographic location.drPLUM said:
By doing residency in the place you want to end up in, you're hopefully making the connections that will enable you to get a job in the area.
Geographic location means a lot of things. It means salary, local culture, weather, family/relations. It's often difficult to get all that you want of these things in one place.
e.g. in pursuit of more $$$, or a particularly competitive fellowship, one should be prepared to move - often at the cost of physically distancing oneself from family/friends.
I'm a little 😴 right now - hopefully when I come back and read this tomorrow it will make sense to me.
Dontcha gots Taco Bell in every state? A dollar a taco can't be far wrong! 😛UCSFbound said:
drPLUM said:
Job openings are cyclical. If there are no spots the year you finish, then you may have to settle for a lesser job until a better one opens up, or go somewhere else. When local places are looking to fill positions, they also often contact the local programs and ask if there are any residents looking for jobs. You won't get these contacts if you are out of state as easily.
People also say "be geographically flexible" because they want to maximize their salary. If you get offered more money to go to another state, then many people will take the move. But you don't often have to. It also often is true if you are academically inclined, and want an assistant professorship somewhere.
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b&ierstiefel
Hey yaah, very nice review on scutwork. I presume the whole transition to the Jay Hess era is going smooth and nicely.
Yeah, there are a lot of job interviews of good faculty candidates. No one is really being replaced (except hemepath director who is leaving to be a CP director somewhere else and will be a big loss). Just additions.
I reviewed my med school's program when I was a med student, but I have yet to review my new program. I figure I'll do that at the end of the year when I have rotated at all the sites and have done all the core AP rotations (of course, I still won't be able to do justice to the CP rotations). It's hard to really "know" a program until you've spent a couple years there.
I'm with ya.cytoborg said:
I've been straight CP so far, and the other PGY-1 I talked to about doing a review has been straight VA so far. It's just how things were set up to receive us when we arrived.
And since people are mostly interested in surg path, I figure too little information is a bad thing.
yaah said:
Whoops. Scratch that. He isn't leaving at all, a fact that I become more pleased with every day on this service. There are some attendings who just GET it. They know how to teach, they know how to interact with residents, and they know what is important. Lucky we have quite a few of them here.
