x

[fonziefonz]

x

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[odstudent]

at UHCO my class started with 102 and now we are down to around 84.

 

[Oogilily]

I bet dropout rates are higher at public schools, such as NOVA and UHCO. Your tuition means more at a private school and they probably don't have as high of drop-out or failure rates.

 

[swiftiii]

FYI...Nova is a private school. Also, I don't remember 30 people failing any class. Our last test in anatomy had an average of like 95.

Speaking as a non-trad with an exceptionally low GPA entering, you have to work hard to fail out of Nova. Excess partying, never doing your homework in a relatively timely manner, those kinds of things. So don't worry too much (unless those are the things you do )

 

[jefguth]

I bet dropout rates are higher at public schools, such as NOVA and UHCO. Your tuition means more at a private school and they probably don't have as high of drop-out or failure rates.

Not necessarily true: no matter where you go as a student you represent a big pile of money to the school. Public schools are public b/c they receive funding for each in-state student enrolled. - they do have funding outside of student tuition. Look at the out-of-state tuition for public schools to get a better idea of just how much it costs a public school to operate per student and you'll find it's very much in the same range as the private ones. So no matter where the money comes from, each student that fails or drops out leaves an empty spot that cannot be filled and represents a large chunk of money the school cannot collect on.

That said I can't say that my class at ICO has experienced anywhere near the attrition mentioned at NOVA and UHCO. So far less than 10 in a class of 150.

 

[still_confused]

Our last test in anatomy had an average of like 95.

smart kids

 

[cunikki]

now when you say these kids are 'lost'??? what does that mean? i know at my school a small amount of kids end up having to do an extra year.. a lot of the ones we lost from my class (5/6) are due to lots of things besides just straight failing out of school. most of these people end up in the class below them but that doesnt affect the starting class size of the one below them usually so it not like the school is losing money.. it is almost gaining money by having the kids there an extra year so some kids pay 5 years of tuition....?? anyways i know that every school loses some people for one reason or another... i would not get too concerned about it...

 

[swiftiii]

Haha! Easy test. I don't think failing 1/3d of the class would look good for any department.

You know, I got my business degree, but I am sure that this is pretty intuitive: schools overload because they know that a certain number of students are going to drop out. Sure you don't want a low attrition rate, but at the same time, it forces students to work harder and be more serious, and perhaps, self-consciously gets applicants to think that they will be getting a rigorous and thorough education (NB I am not saying this is necessarily true....)

 

[IndianaOD]

Its sad if schools choose tuition over educational ethics.

Wouldn't mind the schools failing out a few more. Might help the crushing oversupply!

 

[swiftiii]

I already told one of our teachers who basically said the same thing, that I was glad that we lost some people as I always wanted smaller lab sizes. More support in training/teaching/learning, like you said.

 

[still_confused]

glad your classmates fail? im glad i go to a close knit school where we get really upset when that happens.


but in terms of oversupply, im going to hope everyone in every other school fails.

 

[swiftiii]

Yeah, I just knew that was the response I was going to get. Two of my very good friends failed out and I was pretty upset, but I do go to a school where there are 30 students to a lab and only 2-3 preceptors and it's hard to learn. I want to be the best optometrist I can for my future patients and I want my future coworkers to have the best education and learning experience they can. Do I wish we had smaller class sizes to start initially? Of course. Select the cream of the crop and put them in school. Unfortunately, this is a business for the schools too. But if the ones who aren't dedicated enough fail out, and keep in mind, you too will have to work with "everyone" someday, who am I not to be just a little bit glad. I don't wish anyone to fail out so please don't imply that I am heartless and that our school and my classmates don't care for each other. And I highly doubt we hold the same grudge against other schools....

I think I now remembered why I quit posting here.

 

[eyestrain]

Looks like some kids need to study a little.

 

[eyestrain]

Perhaps. I'm just hear too much blaming of professors around here. Thought I'd do a little student-blaming to make things more balanced.

 

[jefguth]

Results are in for our anatomy test and guess what? Half the class failed (with a bell curve too)! Looks like we're on pace to lose 50% of our class. At Nova, if you fail one course, you have to do the whole year again!

New professor? We had the same thing happen when a new neuro prof started teaching my class

 

[KHE]

For professional schools, it does not help their reputation in the field or amongst prospective students if they have huge drop out/flunk out rates so I do not believe that professional schools admit people they know will flunk out just so they can grab a years worth of tuition out of a handful of kids. That makes no sense.

Secondly, when I taught high school math and science, I could easily set an exam where everyone got 100 and I could easily set an exam where evernone got an F. That's not the goal. The goal of any teacher who sets an exam should be to create an examination that is sufficiently difficult to let the shining stars shine but not so difficult that only the most brilliant of students can manage to pass it.

If 50% of the people in an anatomy class are failing, then it is conceivable that it is a problem with the examination itself. However, this is a new year and if this is the first anatomy exam given to the first year students, then some instructors will fire a shot accross the bow so that people understand that they really have to ratchet it up a notch and there's nothing wrong with that.

It would be interesting to see how those results correlate, if at all to entering GPAs.

 

[vsarge0708]

If 50% of the people in an anatomy class are failing, then it is conceivable that it is a problem with the examination itself. However, this is a new year and if this is the first anatomy exam given to the first year students, then some instructors will fire a shot accross the bow so that people understand that they really have to ratchet it up a notch and there's nothing wrong with that.

It would be interesting to see how those results correlate, if at all to entering GPAs.

I concure. I doubt the 50+ students that failed the test are going to be to concerned about the only muscle in the lateral portion of the leg that everts the foot (or something along those lines). I know my grade did not correlate to my entering GPA. But so far in all of my other classes I'd say that my opt and undergrad GPAs are pretty close.

 

[swiftiii]

Yeah, I'm sure there wouldn't be any statistical significance. Some of the 50% that failed last year made BSK, so one test isn't going to tell you too much, except maybe that it is a ridiculously hard test. My favorite question was "Which of the following muscles would not be used if you dropped your keys and then best over to pick them up" with the choices being something like four minor abdominal/back muscles...I mean it's not like I don't want to help my eye patients and tell them to be careful when they pick up their keys as they might strain their psoas major, but I think I would be doing them a greater service if I referred them to their PCP if they were so concerned.

BTW if you still can't be convinced that it wasn't the students, I would mention that the highest grade was achieved by someone who TA'd anatomy for years...and he got an 88.

Maybe it doesn't look good for a school to fail so many students, but if you know that your entering class will be filled to max regardless, do you think admin higher than the program really care that much? A little bit, I'm sure, but it's not like they're going to say, we don't have enough good applicants and we don't want to take a chance on people who might fail out, so lets just fill 75%. Anyway, I'm glad they didn't and the school should be glad they didn't because some people, myself included, ruin the myth that GPA is significantly related to future course grades.

Which all ties in well with what I was saying earlier....

 

[docwatson]

Results are in for our anatomy test and guess what? Half the class failed (with a bell curve too)! Looks like we're on pace to lose 50% of our class. At Nova, if you fail one course, you have to do the whole year again!

How does half of a class fail an anatomy course??? You already know the answers. It's just a matter of regurgitating the information. You know: "What is this?" (pointing to the ear)

What questions were they asking???? Maybe I just don't remember the course I took since it was an eon ago...

 

[docwatson]

The test had no diagrams on it. All word based. They pretty much asked us the most trivial thing they could about some of the most trivial parts of the body. Apparently, that will help us in our roles as ODs . This anatomy class goes way too in depth. I understand the fact that we need to know the body and its parts, but failing people because they get trick questions wrong on the inner workings of the urological system in an optometry anatomy class is wrong. What bothers me the most is the fact that this is a apparently a normal thing at Nova and the prof gets in no trouble whatsoever every year.

If I remember right, the test you described was structured the same way as ones I took. No one in our class failed. But I don't know, I wasn't there to take yours...

None the less, I hope this is not a reflection of schools getting desperate by admitting those with lower GPAs or lower abilities (not sure of the state of grade inflation nowadays).

Again, I don't know... But something to think about...

 

[prettygreeneyes]

Egads man!!! 15-18 people dropping/failing out? Wow. My class of 90 at Pacific has lost 3 people, and not one of those people failed out.

 

[vsarge0708]

If I remember right, the test you described was structured the same way as ones I took. No one in our class failed. But I don't know, I wasn't there to take yours...

None the less, I hope this is not a reflection of schools getting desperate by admitting those with lower GPAs or lower abilities (not sure of the state of grade inflation nowadays).

Again, I don't know... But something to think about...

Take a look at the stats for this years entering class, competition is high across the board. With that said, I'm pretty sure one test focusing on tertiary details doesn't accurately represent our academic ability.

 

[Dr Gump]

The test had no diagrams on it. All word based. They pretty much asked us the most trivial thing they could about some of the most trivial parts of the body. Apparently, that will help us in our roles as ODs . This anatomy class goes way too in depth. I understand the fact that we need to know the body and its parts, but failing people because they get trick questions wrong on the inner workings of the urological system in an optometry anatomy class is wrong. What bothers me the most is the fact that this is a apparently a normal thing at Nova and the prof gets in no trouble whatsoever every year.

Not to add to your dilemma, but this is graduate school. You will be dealing with "shades of gray" now. The days of "black and white" are over.

I can remember thinking the same things as you, but hang in there....this is the first test. You will adjust and do just fine. And no, I didn't go to NOVA. I went to UHCO.

 

[docwatson]

Not to add to your dilemma, but this is graduate school. You will be dealing with "shades of gray" now. The days of "black and white" are over.

I can remember thinking the same things as you, but hang in there....this is the first test. You will adjust and do just fine. And no, I didn't go to NOVA. I went to UHCO.

Forrest : I don't see any data on your profile... When did you graduate? I graduated from UHCO in '99.

I agree. I remember all of my tests from optometry school having questions about really obscure things. I complained to be sure but I got through it okay.

To the Fonz... HANG IN THERE!

HAH... Wait until you get to pharmacology. I can't imagine what your class will do then. Talk about a weed out class. I didn't do that great but I managed. Optics was my forte...

 

[eyestrain]

Thanks for the encouragement guys! So, can anyone else who went or goes to other schools enlighten us on their rates?

I think that IU class of 2007 lost 2 out of 77 or so. One wasn't for academic reasons. The other I don't know about.

 

[tikiriki]

Well, from the statistics that we received at the beginning of the year, class of 2010 lost 1 out of 98 students last year. So now we have 99 students in our 1st year class here at SCCO.

 

[sniklegem]

5 lost... now down to 119.

4 were lost on their own accord.
1 was lost b/c she got married, moved away, and was thinking of transferring to ICO.

 

[cunikki]

that is hilarious about your pupils!!! i have a permanent anisocoria from a class called ohp2 (extended bio basically)....
at scco most people that have to step down a class end up repeating all/part of second year.. the first years usually lose 1-2 people and the second years lose another 4-6 depending on the year but they usually just repeat a couple classes for second year and then move on....

 

[cpw]

My class at UHCO started with 96, by graduation we had 83. A few dropped out, a few failed classes [pharm mostly] and were bumped down to the class under us, and then we picked up a few people from the class above us that failed classes and were repeating.

 

[jefguth]

So far, in my class, we picked up about five people from years ahead of us, as far as I know one failed, and one left for her own reasons. Two people from my class had to repeat first year, and four have left for their reasons, mainly lack of interest/passion.

 

[sniklegem]

that is hilarious about your pupils!!!

Good news: didn't dilate today!

And I forgot to mention... none of ours dropped down to the class below us, and we haven't picked anyone up from the classes above us. My class was in the odd transition phase concerning the curriculum, and it isn't really possible for anyone to slide down into our class.

One former student did start over in the class of 2011, though.

 

[prettygreeneyes]

After Term 1, we have about 11 casualties of war here at Nova. Ouch...

What about other schools?

Half way done with 2nd year, and we still have only lost three. None of those failed - all left for personal reasons. One of the reasons I love Pacific!

 

[xenopsyllus]

Half way done with 2nd year, and we still have only lost three. None of those failed - all left for personal reasons. One of the reasons I love Pacific!

And two of those came back the next year, so we've really only lost one, and that one dropped out within the first month of classes. Go Pacific!

 

[vsarge0708]

After Term 1, we have about 11 casualties of war here at Nova. Ouch...

What about other schools?

Thanks for airing out our dirty laundry.

 

[JAZZEYE]

Thanks for airing out our dirty laundry.

 

[jefguth]

are these 11 true "casualties of war," or did some leave for personal reasons?

 

[ODduck]

Only 1 was personal.

1st year at Pacific...

For your database, we have lost 3, all for personal reasons...

 

[r_salis]

This informal failure/dropout database should include class size -- 2 dropouts at SUNY is much different than 2 at Nova percentage-wise.

 

[sharpshooter24]

BARRY University Masters in Biomedical sciences program option I 12 month program....since i have taken the same courses you noobs are having trouble with, loooks like ill be having a fun 4 years of optometry school.


for you Nova optometry kiddies, i am assuming that Lutfi is teaching your head and neck.. Head and neck anatomy is my specialty.


BTW : i did my own disections in gross anatomy. i know more anatomy than most OD's here. ill teach you one secret of mine.. dont memorize every damn freaking structure. visualize it and know the relationship. relationships are key for gross anatomy. you cant realize that, your a damn noob and i dont care if you are an OD , DO or DDS.

 

[sharpshooter24]

Lufti did teach us head and neck...that was the easy part...gross anatomy, not so much. And us 'noobs' in opt school have fancy degrees too, and just remember, opt school is a different animal than anything in undergrad.

On a side note, chalk another one up to our kill count.

your right , undergrad is different than health professional school. you could say i did my first 2 years of any health professional program in one.

i have heard every good, bad and the ugly story of Nova southeastern college of optometry. Let me see, exams on monday, block exams every couple of weeks, and insane final schedule, 3rd year clinical rotations being a disaster, Dr. Reich curving a pathology exam by X amount of points because the average was 45-50 percent, the dental students getting easier exams that you guys, exams not tied into the current material, people getting the feeling that they are being failed left and right, NBEO prep courses given by NOVA does not do didly squat to help students and yet they managed to get a 90% , yep yep , thats whats going on in NSUCO.

geez since NBEO is given in the 3rd year and it is more clinically based, i wonder what Dr. Loshin and Dr. Reich will be cooking up to accomodate those changes. i hope its for the better, because if i have to attend this school, i dont want to be left out in the cold like other people.

and fonzefonz, 11 people dropping out of NOVA, thats kind sad in my book.

not to sound negative laddie, but i have lost alot of faith in the optometry education at Nova over the years. i dont mean to be nasty here, but i have sincere feelings to get a good education at NOVA or somewhere else.

 

[Shasta03]

kiddie . . . noobs . . . laddie? what's with all the condescending language here?

 

[vsarge0708]

your right , undergrad is different than health professional school. you could say i did my first 2 years of any health professional program in one.

i have heard every good, bad and the ugly story of Nova southeastern college of optometry. Let me see, exams on monday, block exams every couple of weeks, and insane final schedule, 3rd year clinical rotations being a disaster, Dr. Reich curving a pathology exam by X amount of points because the average was 45-50 percent, the dental students getting easier exams that you guys, exams not tied into the current material, people getting the feeling that they are being failed left and right, NBEO prep courses given by NOVA does not do didly squat to help students and yet they managed to get a 90% , yep yep , thats whats going on in NSUCO.

geez since NBEO is given in the 3rd year and it is more clinically based, i wonder what Dr. Loshin and Dr. Reich will be cooking up to accomodate those changes. i hope its for the better, because if i have to attend this school, i dont want to be left out in the cold like other people.

and fonzefonz, 11 people dropping out of NOVA, thats kind sad in my book.

not to sound negative laddie, but i have lost alot of faith in the optometry education at Nova over the years. i dont mean to be nasty here, but i have sincere feelings to get a good education at NOVA or somewhere else.

So how many times did you get rejected from Nova again? You did 36 credits of a scetchy at best masters program (in 18 months--no need to lie on a forum buddy). It is not professional school. And for the last effin time, 36 credits does not equal the 90+ credits we take during our first two years, but being humble and subtle is not your forte. Instead of spreading feces on this forum, why don't you shut your mouth, open your eyes/ears and learn from some of the "noobs" before you.

NBEO prep courses given by NOVA does not do didly squat to help students and yet they managed to get a 90%

Arguably your most obtuse statement to date.

 

[OSUDDS]

BARRY University Masters in Biomedical sciences program option I 12 month program....since i have taken the same courses you noobs are having trouble with, loooks like ill be having a fun 4 years of optometry school.


for you Nova optometry kiddies, i am assuming that Lutfi is teaching your head and neck.. Head and neck anatomy is my specialty.


BTW : i did my own disections in gross anatomy. i know more anatomy than most OD's here. ill teach you one secret of mine.. dont memorize every damn freaking structure. visualize it and know the relationship. relationships are key for gross anatomy. you cant realize that, your a damn noob and i dont care if you are an OD , DO or DDS.

not to hurt any feelings or anything, but they have these masters programs in order to boost GPAs, its supposed to be an easy A

 

[gochi]

NOVA sounds pretty nasty. I've read some other negative things about NOVA on other threads but how can you conclude that Dental students get easier exams ? It could be that the material is easier...but I dont understand how you would say the exams are easier.

sharpshooter, what do you mean by studying the relationships ? Im probably going to be taking that during undergrad so it would help to get some tips from people who have taken it.

ty

 

[still_confused]

BARRY University Masters in Biomedical sciences program option I 12 month program

This is a great statement. Isnt this a program for those that don't have the grades to get into optometry school and need to show the schools that they are not totally unqualified by retaking courses.

Wow understanding relationships in anatomy is key??? You took the first two years of professional schools in one???? Have a great two years in optometry school before you fail out because you obviously dont have what it takes.

Where is IndianaOD when you need him/her to put some crazy pre-opts in their place?

 

[UHCO2011]

Thought I would share my experience thus far as a first year at UHCO. Last semester we only lost one student, but that was early in so I'm assuming it was for personal reasons. Other than that, I am not aware of anyone failing out just yet from the remaining 104.
That's not to say that no one failed. Anatomy lecture last semester was one of our toughest classes with an average of 20 percent of the class failing (D/F) all three exams. However, the class was curved and afterwards only around 5 people were still below passing. I believe we also had a few people fail optics I. My understanding however, is that the school looks at each failing student on a case by case basis. Some are allowed to complete this year, and then will repeat the failed class in the fall with the first years on top of the other second year classes. Others I believe are on academic probation this semester and are given a chance to get their stuff together. I am predicting that we will lose students over the summer however. Talking to the second years (who's class size is about 15 smaller), I've learned that ocular anat. this semester gets a lot of people. Hopefully I'll be able to get through it.

 

[sharpshooter24]

So how many times did you get rejected from Nova again? You did 36 credits of a scetchy at best masters program (in 18 months--no need to lie on a forum buddy). It is not professional school. And for the last effin time, 36 credits does not equal the 90+ credits we take during our first two years, but being humble and subtle is not your forte. Instead of spreading feces on this forum, why don't you shut your mouth, open your eyes/ears and learn from some of the "noobs" before you.

NBEO prep courses given by NOVA does not do didly squat to help students and yet they managed to get a 90%

Arguably your most obtuse statement to date.

i suggest you watch your tone.. this statement here "
NBEO prep courses given by NOVA does not do didly squat to help students and yet they managed to get a 90%" , was told by a good friend of mine , for she is a 3rd year student there . a lot of her friends didnt past NBEO I. she passed by the skin of her teeth,

second i did start off in the one year program in Barry, but i decided to take two extra classes in the fall semester, so even though i was in the one year program, i took extra classes to boost up my grades.

and ill clue you in with another fact m8: in my one year class, i am the only one who is doing optometry, everyone else is doing med, dental and some pharm.

just recently vsarge, i had to take a comprehensive/ cumulative exam for the first 30 credits with only barely 2 weeks of preparation. and i passed and have an MS degree. you could say i know how to deal with boards. and if i can succeed in that, i know i can do well in the boards. thats two weeks to relearn one years worth of info.

i did what i did, because my grades in undergrad werent too hot, even though i did very well in the OAT's.


great program, interdisciplinary program, state of the art, new school, and only a few min drive from my house. those are only the good things about nova in my eyes.

im not trying to play lord of the masses. but i have heard the saying from your very own classmates " Nova is there to fail me, they dont cut us some slack in clinic, they out there for the money"..

 

[vsarge0708]

i suggest you watch your tone.. this statement here "
NBEO prep courses given by NOVA does not do didly squat to help students and yet they managed to get a 90%" , was told by a good friend of mine , for she is a 3rd year student there . a lot of her friends didnt past NBEO I. she passed by the skin of her teeth,

second i did start off in the one year program in Barry, but i decided to take two extra classes in the fall semester, so even though i was in the one year program, i took extra classes to boost up my grades.

and ill clue you in with another fact m8: in my one year class, i am the only one who is doing optometry, everyone else is doing med, dental and some pharm.

just recently vsarge, i had to take a comprehensive/ cumulative exam for the first 30 credits with only barely 2 weeks of preparation. and i passed and have an MS degree. you could say i know how to deal with boards. and if i can succeed in that, i know i can do well in the boards. thats two weeks to relearn one years worth of info.

i did what i did, because my grades in undergrad werent too hot, even though i did very well in the OAT's.


great program, interdisciplinary program, state of the art, new school, and only a few min drive from my house. those are only the good things about nova in my eyes.

im not trying to play lord of the masses. but i have heard the saying from your very own classmates " Nova is there to fail me, they dont cut us some slack in clinic, they out there for the money"..

It's professional school, and therefore it should have fairly strict academic standards. Failing students doesn't make the school more money nor does it help the attrition rate, so your comment about Nova trying to fail students is moot at best. Maybe schools shouldn't have realistic standards, maybe they should lower the standards so every mook off the street could get in and pass, right?

NBEO prep courses given by NOVA does not do didly squat to help students and yet they managed to get a 90%" , was told by a good friend of mine , for she is a 3rd year student there . a lot of her friends didnt past NBEO I. she passed by the skin of her teeth.

Hmm you're right, with a 90% pass rate the school must have done everything in their power to make sure every student fails part I.

and ill clue you in with another fact m8: in my one year class, i am the only one who is doing optometry, everyone else is doing med, dental and some pharm.

That is a great story.

and i passed and have an MS degree. you could say i know how to deal with boards

Quite humble of you to say so.

BARRY University Masters in Biomedical sciences program option I 12 month program....since i have taken the same courses you noobs are having trouble with, loooks like ill be having a fun 4 years of optometry school.


for you Nova optometry kiddies, i am assuming that Lutfi is teaching your head and neck.. Head and neck anatomy is my specialty.


BTW : i did my own disections in gross anatomy. i know more anatomy than most OD's here. ill teach you one secret of mine.. dont memorize every damn freaking structure. visualize it and know the relationship. relationships are key for gross anatomy. you cant realize that, your a damn noob and i dont care if you are an OD , DO or DDS.

What ales you "mate"? You aren't serious are you--then again you are the son of God so you would know more anatomy than "most OD's here". Love to chat, but I've got to go study anatomy, you're more than welcome to come help me if you like.

 

[r_salis]

Everybody, calm down. No need to get your panties all in a bunch. Let's all be civil with one another, or thready-get-closey-ed.

 

[stand]

I went to NOVA myself and I know what you are feeling, I say keep the faith and keep pushing I know NOVA is not the most nurturing school out there..