Yale, Columbia, or Penn

[msafain]

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I need some advice? Pros/Cons of each place? Tell me wh I should/ shouldn't go to each!

 

[OntheRoof55]

I need some advice? Pros/Cons of each place? Tell me wh I should/ shouldn't go to each!

dude i hate you...j/k...pick upenn..pretty there..good program

 

[Medicus]

I need some advice? Pros/Cons of each place? Tell me wh I should/ shouldn't go to each!

When you say Penn, do you mean UPenn or Penn State? I imagine UPenn, but I just want to make sure.

 

[10minutes]

When you say Penn, do you mean UPenn or Penn State? I imagine UPenn, but I just want to make sure.

I'm 100% sure he meant UPenn.

 

[skiracer90]

I need some advice? Pros/Cons of each place? Tell me wh I should/ shouldn't go to each!

senor safain,

you smart bastard. go with upenn.

 

[msafain]

Please dont just vote and give me your opinions, I really need help in deciding, I feel like I am stuck. I KNOW I am choosing between great schools but is there anyone who can give me any advice??

 

[Skichic56]

All 3 schools are reputable but differ greatly in their curriculums and locations. These were the two biggest factors in my decision. I would recommend considering these factors because both will chiefly affect/somewhat determine your happiness for the next 4 years.

 

[dianamd]

I need some advice? Pros/Cons of each place? Tell me wh I should/ shouldn't go to each!

3 great choices - congratulations.

location, location. new york is superior to philly. philadelphia is like brooklyn without manhattan (i used to live in philly). columbia has excellent clinical training, especially for surgery. penn has a more research focus and puts less emphasis on patient care, so it depends on what you're out for.

yale students are definitely the happiest of the three. columbia probably has the most interesting and diverse student body of the three. penn has that curriculum, but the research focus and the location are negatives to me.

good luck! 🙂

 

[theeleganttouch]

columbia definitely does NOT have the most interesting and diverse student body. they are on probation (LCME accreditation) and one of the reasons for this probation is LACK OF DIVERSITY. i couldn't understand how this could be true until i visited two days ago for the revisit. totally a frat-boy/country club kind of atmosphere (which was also the sense i got during interviews). it *is* completely ivy like everyone talks about, and in fact there were about 30 kids from harvard (my school) there. insane.

i also don't believe that penn has a greater research focus. the curriculum is structured to give you more patient care/practice of med instruction. the extra semester of electives also gives you more flexibility and depth in clinical instruction. columbia definitely has a strong surgery program, which may or may not be better than penn's. however, there is a huge underemphasis on primary care and subspecialties, to the point where my tour guide there even said to us "if you're interested in primary care, columbia is probably not the best place for you."

finally, new york city is my favorite city in the world by a mile (i've been down there every other weekend this senior year). there is no substitute for living in the city. philly, however, is a nice city in its own way, much more affordable, and only 70 minutes away from new york. it takes longer than 70 minutes to get from washington heights to parts of brooklyn.

so my 2 cents. no comments on yale since i didn't apply to it and know very little about it.

~et

3 great choices - congratulations.

location, location. new york is superior to philly. philadelphia is like brooklyn without manhattan (i used to live in philly). columbia has excellent clinical training, especially for surgery. penn has a more research focus and puts less emphasis on patient care, so it depends on what you're out for.

yale students are definitely the happiest of the three. columbia probably has the most interesting and diverse student body of the three. penn has that curriculum, but the research focus and the location are negatives to me.

good luck! 🙂

 

[The Remix]

columbia definitely does NOT have the most interesting and diverse student body. they are on probation (LCME accreditation) and one of the reasons for this probation is LACK OF DIVERSITY. i couldn't understand how this could be true until i visited two days ago for the revisit. totally a frat-boy/country club kind of atmosphere (which was also the sense i got during interviews). it *is* completely ivy like everyone talks about, and in fact there were about 30 kids from harvard (my school) there. insane.

You must have visited Columbia on a frat-boy/country club day; student diversity is one of the main reasons I'm attending this fall. The class of 2008 is 24% URM--the highest of all the ivies. If that's grounds for accreditation issues than I can think of certain schools (Vanderbuilt, UVA) that must be on their wits end by now with the LMCE. Aside from that there were many non-trads who did all sorts of things before coming to medschool. They even have an Athens 2004 Olympic swimmer at the school! I feel you on the ivy-club point but I think it's more an issue of recruiting than it is accepting. In the past Columbia received a bottle-necked applicant pool by virtue of not being a member of AMCAS. This may be changing now with the adoption of it, but increasing non-ivy and minority recruitment will be one of the projects I'll be working on in the fall through their diversity office.

 

[SarahGM]

1. Columbia is NOT on probation.

2. The class of 2008 began the year with over half the class being women, and 24% being underrepresented minorities. This is outstanding. When listing this concern, the LCME wasn't saying that Columbia isn't diverse enough. They asked, "What are you doing to MAINTAIN student diversity in the years to come?" They wanted a more concrete plan than the one they were given.

3. What part of Washington Heights reminded you of a country club??

4. Columbia is one of the only, if not THE only, school to publish what universities and colleges the students are from in the facebook. I don't know... maybe I'm not that worldly in terms of med schools, but when I interviewed around, I didn't see any similar sort of facebook provided to the interviewees. Perhaps other schools are also recruiting from the same student pool, but Columbia is one of the only to publish it?

columbia definitely does NOT have the most interesting and diverse student body. they are on probation (LCME accreditation) and one of the reasons for this probation is LACK OF DIVERSITY. i couldn't understand how this could be true until i visited two days ago for the revisit. totally a frat-boy/country club kind of atmosphere (which was also the sense i got during interviews). it *is* completely ivy like everyone talks about, and in fact there were about 30 kids from harvard (my school) there. insane.

~et

 

[msafain]

bump

 

[tigress]

finally, new york city is my favorite city in the world by a mile (i've been down there every other weekend this senior year). there is no substitute for living in the city. philly, however, is a nice city in its own way, much more affordable, and only 70 minutes away from new york. it takes longer than 70 minutes to get from washington heights to parts of brooklyn.

I'm not sure how fast you drive, but my husband and I live in Philly and drive to NY all the time to visit my in-laws. It definitely takes longer than that. I'd say more like 2 hours (or even 2.5) to Manhattan. Of course, that's not too long, and we do it all the time. On the train it could take about 3 hours because of connections and things (I actually commuted to Manhattan twice a week for my last semester of undergrad).

So, as far as the schools: as somebody else said, they have different curriculums, so you may want to consider that. I would also suggest, in contrast to somebody above, that Penn students are the happiest of the three schools. If you choose Penn you have to make sure you're cool with doing all of the coursework in the first year and a half (it's somewhat crazy but the students seem to like it). It does give you extra time for clinical rotations, and the students I've talked to say it also helps on Step I to have that much clinical experience before taking it (they take it 3rd year).

Yale has a really good reputation; I don't know much about it. Columbia is great but I feel like the students aren't quite as happy (granted that's based on a small sample). Manhattan is awesome to live in. Personally, having lived in both Manhattan and Philly, I think I like Philly a bit better, but it's entirely personal preference (and I'm glad I got to live in Manhattan for 3.5 years because it was a great experience).

 

[msafain]

bump

 

[MiaFLSurf]

We must have gone to different revisits, because my revisit to Columbia was full of diversity last weekend.

Desicion is easy - you want surgery, go to olumbia, you want Research/Academi Medicine, pick Penn.
Yale cant hang with those 2 schools in those 2 regards.

 

[kikkoman]

Research/Academi Medicine, pick Penn.
Yale cant hang with those 2 schools in those 2 regards.

Yeah, I hear Yale is pretty weak at research/academic medicine.

Eh?

 

[oceans412]

3 great choices - congratulations.

columbia has excellent clinical training, especially for surgery.
yale students are definitely the happiest of the three. columbia probably has the most interesting and diverse student body of the three.

Hi Everyone,
I am in a similar position as SkiChic... deciding between Yale and Columbia and Hopkins (and a waitlist at Harvard). And after Hopkins revisit weekend, I'm deciding between Yale and Columbia. I missed Columbia's revisit so I'm curious to hear more about this "country club/frat boy" environment. I am also a harvard alum but I'm definitely not a snob and that statement makes me think twice about going to P&S.

I'm also curious about the above statement that yale students are happiest--please elaborate! 🙂 How do you this?

And does the fact that Columbia has better clinical training make it a better place to go, even if you don't want to be a surgeon?

HELP!

 

[oceans412]

Yeah, I hear Yale is pretty weak at research/academic medicine.

Eh?

Wait if Yale is weak at research/academic medicine, what are they good at?

They do require a thesis to graduate so I'm thinking that research must be important there...

Is it the general perception of residency directors (let's say you were interested in a fairly normal specialty like internal medicine) that yale students aren't as well-trained as columbia/penn/hopkins?

 

[Whitney]

Wait if Yale is weak at research/academic medicine, what are they good at?

They do require a thesis to graduate so I'm thinking that research must be important there...

Is it the general perception of residency directors (let's say you were interested in a fairly normal specialty like internal medicine) that yale students aren't as well-trained as columbia/penn/hopkins?

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that kikkoman was being sarcastic (based on previous posts)....(if not please correct me).

 

[ORmed]

Wait if Yale is weak at research/academic medicine, what are they good at?

They do require a thesis to graduate so I'm thinking that research must be important there...

Is it the general perception of residency directors (let's say you were interested in a fairly normal specialty like internal medicine) that yale students aren't as well-trained as columbia/penn/hopkins?

I had the same decision as the OP (but swap Columbia for Cornell) and I'm going to Yale. With only 100 students (vs. 150 at Columbia and Penn) over the past few years, Yale has managed to send more students to Dermatology residencies, Internal Med at Harvard Hospitals, etc. etc. than either of the other two schools.

If you are going to make your decision based on which school will set you up best for residency - Yale has a clear edge.

But they're all really great schools and I think the main differences are (like the above posters mentioned) curriculum and location.

 

[blump]

Wait if Yale is weak at research/academic medicine, what are they good at?

They do require a thesis to graduate so I'm thinking that research must be important there...

Is it the general perception of residency directors (let's say you were interested in a fairly normal specialty like internal medicine) that yale students aren't as well-trained as columbia/penn/hopkins?

In terms of academic medicine, Yale is quite good. Percentage of graduates who are in faculty positions is as follows:

1) Harvard 26%
2) Johns Hopkins 25%
3) Yale 22%
4) Chicago 20%
5) Cornell 18%

 

[oceans412]

With only 100 students (vs. 150 at Columbia and Penn) over the past few years, Yale has managed to send more students to Dermatology residencies, Internal Med at Harvard Hospitals, etc. etc. than either of the other two schools.

If you are going to make your decision based on which school will set you up best for residency - Yale has a clear edge.

I'm surprised at this because I have heard that Yale-New Haven Hospital isn't as good a place to train as Columbia's NY-Presbyterian...?

I've also heard that Columbia has consistently higher board scores than the other two?

Last question: Has anyone heard if the 2nd and/or 3rd years are particularly heinous or unbearable at either of these schools? My friends at Columbia say that 2nd and 3rd years are by far the hardest... I wonder if that is just time-wise or if the faculty are nice and/or accessible?

 

[sockandmittens]

yale is clearly a great school. but one thing to consider with their incredible matchlist is that about 60% of the class takes 5+ years so they have an edge when it comes to matching in the first place.

additionally, in the case of derm- one of the profs at yale writes the derm textbook or something, so it's a very strong department at the school able to send out strong letters.

consider class size, location, and fit- all three will give you a great education and you can have any type of career you want if you work hard at any of them. it's just a fit thing at this point-

 

[kikkoman]

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that kikkoman was being sarcastic (based on previous posts)....(if not please correct me).

Yeah, I was, thanks Whitney.

Yale is heavily geared towards research and attracts students who place a priority on doing research by requiring theses from all the students. I think if you are sure you want to go into academics, Yale might be the best choice of the three.

 

[oceans412]

Yeah, I was, thanks Whitney. Yale is heavily geared towards research and attracts students who place a priority on doing research by requiring theses from all the students. I think if you are sure you want to go into academics, Yale might be the best choice of the three.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm confused AND gullible... 🙂

OK, so right now I am hoping to practice and teach... I haven't enjoyed my bench research in the past (though I've done a great deal of it), but I haven't done any clinical research and perhaps that is different (less lonely?). I am freaked by the idea of a thesis... I am wondering if it's possible and/or a good idea to try to do a thesis that is more humanities-focused... like a thesis on bioethics?

I think it probably is just a matter of fit at this point... Why is it so hard to figure where exactly I fit! 🙂

 

[oceans412]

yale is clearly a great school. but one thing to consider with their incredible matchlist is that about 60% of the class takes 5+ years so they have an edge when it comes to matching in the first place.

additionally, in the case of derm- one of the profs at yale writes the derm textbook or something, so it's a very strong department at the school able to send out strong letters.

consider class size, location, and fit- all three will give you a great education and you can have any type of career you want if you work hard at any of them. it's just a fit thing at this point-

why would doing a 5th year give people such an advantage in match?

and why is derm so competitive as a specialty anyway! just financially lucrative?

i was looking at the required rotations for columbia and yale during their 3rd and 4th years... they are set up a little bit differently... don't know what to make of that...

 

[kikkoman]

OK, so right now I am hoping to practice and teach... I haven't enjoyed my bench research in the past (though I've done a great deal of it), but I haven't done any clinical research and perhaps that is different (less lonely?). I am freaked by the idea of a thesis... I am wondering if it's possible and/or a good idea to try to do a thesis that is more humanities-focused... like a thesis on bioethics?

Sure, if you look over the theses in the handout we got during interview day, many of them have nothing to do with bench research

I think it probably is just a matter of fit at this point... Why is it so hard to figure where exactly I fit! 🙂

The nice thing about Yale is that it's so customizable that you can fit in whatever you want. You can't go wrong! Unless, of course, you like the structure that a less fluid program would give you.

 

[The Remix]

Let's stop kidding ourselves, folks. Any three of these schools will give you anything you are looking for whether its incredible research, reputation, clinical experiences, etc. All of the residency directors know the directors from the other schools. You have no clear advantage going to Yale for derm or Columbia for surgery, etc. To the OP, go where you feel you belong and you'll be happy. You'll do the best there, hands down, than if you were to choose another school based on some arbitrary notion that it is "better."

 

[ajt2003]

Let's stop kidding ourselves, folks. Any three of these schools will give you anything you are looking for whether its incredible research, reputation, clinical experiences, etc. All of the residency directors know the directors from the other schools. You have no clear advantage going to Yale for derm or Columbia for surgery, etc. To the OP, go where you feel you belong and you'll be happy. You'll do the best there, hands down, than if you were to choose another school based on some arbitrary notion that it is "better."

Well said! I feel like all three schools are on a continuum - with Columbia having (at least from my perspective) the "strictest" curriculum, Penn having a middle-of-the-road curriculum (some small groups, some lecture), and Yale having the most flexible curriculum (from the choose your own textbook to the take the darn test whenever the heck you feel like it!).

If you're a traditionalist at heart (need the discipline, structure, etc.), Columbia might be your best bet. If you like to have the freedom to learn entirely on your own - while taking classes pass/fail for the first two years - then go to Yale. If you want to hit clinical rotations a little earlier to figure out which field of medicine is right for you, go to Penn.

Honestly, I would probably get it down to two schools, visit both again, get a vibe for the cities, and then base my final decision on financial aid packages (all three schools, from what I hear, are supposed to be good).

Regardless, as said, you really can't go wrong. Go with your gut! Congrats, and best of luck! (Are you coming to Penn Preview? You should! I'll be there! )

 

[msafain]

I just wanted to say everyone on this post is going to make an excellent physician. To take time and help me out in giving me opinions about the schools is incredible and I thank you all for that. This thread has really helped me in laying the different schools in my mind. I wont be at Penn Preview (originally I was going to be but I forgot its Holy Week and Easter for me that weekend, I’m orthodox Christian), but I hope you love it. Once again thank you all and if you have any more advice do not hesitate.

 

[Amygdarya]

In terms of academic medicine, Yale is quite good. Percentage of graduates who are in faculty positions is as follows:

1) Harvard 26%
2) Johns Hopkins 25%
3) Yale 22%
4) Chicago 20%
5) Cornell 18%

I'm very curious: what are these numbers based on and where do Penn and WashU fit into this? (Though not that there is such a big difference even among the schools listed.)

 

[487806]

I'm very curious: what are these numbers based on and where do Penn and WashU fit into this? (Though not that there is such a big difference even among the schools listed.)

You're replying to a post made ~9 years ago...

 

[Amygdarya]

You're replying to a post made ~9 years ago...

Oops, honestly didn't notice that 😀

I know necrobumping is annoying, but I guess people (like me) just forget they're reading an old thread or something.

 

[Patros]

You're replying to a post made ~9 years ago...

Regardless of necrobump, I too would like to know if anyone has the ranking for graduates in academic medicine or faculty positions. I've been trying hard to find that list, but I honestly think every school is just making it up.