Yale MSTP v Tri-I MSTP v HMS Affiliate MD/PhD

[okaymedicine]

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for all your support during the application process, and I am really very lucky and humbled to have the options I do now. My school doesn't have strong mentoring to help me make a decision so I need to ask the help of y'all fine folks.

Also, this post is with the caveat of me having yet to attend 2nd Look at the schools.

Backstory: I have been dating my SO for 3 years, and we see a future together (like very serious). However, they have recently received a full ride to UMich; we plan on doing long distance until she can match back nearby for residency in 5 years. My family also lives in New Jersey, so around an hour from NYC, 2 hours from New Haven, and 5 hours from Boston.

I have spent the last few years of my life in cities and love diversity of people, but I am more than happy in being a smaller city/town if it means it has diversity of people and perspectives as well.

My background has been in biochemistry and biophysics, but I am totally undecided as to what I want to pursue for my PhD. Maybe leaning towards something in biophysics/cell biology/biochemistry but really not sure. It is more about the mentorship in a good lab for me than a certain topic, since so few people even stay in their PhD field for the rest of their career anyways.

Cornell MSTP:
+Living in NYC seems like a lot of fun
+I really like the PIs at Rockefeller and some at MSK
+Easier to fly out to see my SO
+No car needed, easy transportation
+Closest to family
+More options for SO to match back in (their interest is in a competitive field)???

-NYC is so extremely expensive
-I do like having my space, which is tough in NYC
-Rockefeller is a relatively smaller institution with fewer PI
-The Tri-I training program is much more rigid and regimented

Yale MSTP:
+Less expensive and will have my own space
+Easiest to buy a house when SO matches back
+Yale System is way more flexible and reduces stress in medical school
+I also have an interest in bioethics/philosophy, and having an integrated campus with the undergrad campus and the Law school allow for some cool bioethics and philosophy opportunities
+Seem to have a broader cross-section of PI across diverse fields
+LOVED the people here, found the students, faculty, and administration to be especially warm and welcoming
+Pretty close to family

-Not as fun as NYC
-Will need to buy a car
-Match List at Tri-I seemed slightly stronger?
-Little tougher to fly out and see my SO

HMS NP w/ Affiliate MD/PhD:
+The Harvard name
+Lived and worked in HMS for a few years, so have a few friends here (at least till they leave) and know the work culture
+Strongest match list by far
+Many options for SO to match back in???
+Most diverse grouping of faculty with MIT, Dana Farber, HMS, Boston CHildren's etc.
+Easy to fly out and see SO

-Boston is super expensive
-The Affiliate program would need me to foot the bill for the first 2 years, and since I absolutely want the PhD, it cuts into the affordability
-Farthest from family
-Kind of a 2nd rate MD/PhD within the ranks of HMS (what I mean is compared to the MSTP students at HMS, this seems a little wrong)
-Most competitive/cut-throat work culture I have seen so far
-NP is pretty rigid with a lot of mandatory work

Thank you so much for your responses folks!!! Any input is fabulous, and if you could post your reasons I would be extremely appreciative 🙂

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[camnewton1]

Congrats on your amazing acceptances. Considering you've gotten into two of the top MSTP programs in the country, I'd say forget about the HMS affiliate MD/PhD as you wouldn't be a full MSTP student and would still have to pay quite a bit. I don't think there's a point in going here considering you've already been accepted to true MSTP programs that are both incredible where you'd be happy at.

In terms of Yale vs. Tri-I, it seems like its a pretty even tossup from your pros and cons. I read your SO's School X v Y post and it seems like if you both end up at Yale that would be amazing for the both of you. There's a marginal difference in prestige between Tri-I and Yale and you'll be more than fine coming out of both. Seems like you'd have more flexibility at Yale MSTP, which I think is a big plus as you aren't 100% set on a certain area. I vote Yale!

 

[okaymedicine]

Congrats on your amazing acceptances. Considering you've gotten into two of the top MSTP programs in the country, I'd say forget about the HMS affiliate MD/PhD as you wouldn't be a full MSTP student and would still have to pay quite a bit. I don't think there's a point in going here considering you've already been accepted to true MSTP programs that are both incredible where you'd be happy at.

In terms of Yale vs. Tri-I, it seems like its a pretty even tossup from your pros and cons. I read your SO's School X v Y post and it seems like if you both end up at Yale that would be amazing for the both of you. There's a marginal difference in prestige between Tri-I and Yale and you'll be more than fine coming out of both. Seems like you'd have more flexibility at Yale MSTP, which I think is a big plus as you aren't 100% set on a certain area. I vote Yale!

Thank you for your response! Yeah I think the strength of Yale's flexibility is great, but Tri-I is so well-known in terms of producing faculty. It's a tough decision because they are so close, so I think revisit will be important in helping me make my decision.

 

[ClimbsRox]

Reasons for Tri-I:
1) Cheapest flights to/from Michigan with 3 major airports
2) Tri-I subsidizes housing making things a bit more affordable (Queens/Harlem/Heights can offer reasonable living as well if you dont mind the commute)
3) NYC has tons of residency spots for your partner
4) Tri-I has a ridiculous amounts of resources between the 3 institutions
5) Students seemed relatively happy
6) Its not New Haven or Boston

Reasons not to affiliate at Harvard
1) its ridiculously expensive
2) its ridiculously expensive
3) its ridiculously expensive
4) the students aren't happy

Can't comment on Yale. Congrats on a killer cycle though.

 

[okaymedicine]

Reasons for Tri-I:
1) Cheapest flights to/from Michigan with 3 major airports
2) Tri-I subsidizes housing making things a bit more affordable (Queens/Harlem/Heights can offer reasonable living as well if you dont mind the commute)
3) NYC has tons of residency spots for your partner
4) Tri-I has a ridiculous amounts of resources between the 3 institutions
5) Students seemed relatively happy
6) Its not New Haven or Boston

Reasons not to affiliate at Harvard
1) its ridiculously expensive
2) its ridiculously expensive
3) its ridiculously expensive
4) the students aren't happy

Can't comment on Yale. Congrats on a killer cycle though.

Thank you, congrats to you too! I agree; I think in terms of HMS, the main thing was for me to figure out the opportunity cost of turning down HMS for Tri-I or Yale. The cost at HMS is definitely a big con for me and so it is unlikely I will end up there, especially in light of the strength of the other MSTP's. At Tri-I, the resources are the biggest pull and the strength of research as well; it's just the disparity (I think???) of clinical training between WCMC and Yale that's making me think twice. I also enjoyed my interview at Tri-I, but really connected with the people at Yale, even though it'll be harder to travel to my partner and also for them to match back near me etc (in regards to Yale).

 

[ClimbsRox]

I am not sure there is really a significant difference in clinical training between the two institutions. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think both Cornell and Yale are affiliated with private hospitals. That limits your clinical training either way. Cornell/NYP has affiliations all over the city you can rotate with, so you may be able to tailor that to what you want. I am not sure what Yale has to offer in that regard. Either way, neither institution will limit your residency options. The hardest question is: where will you be happier? I am trying to answer that one now myself. Good dilemmas to have for sure, but still dilemmas.

 

[574522]

Congrats on having a great decision to make! Just wanted to add in some HMS notes:

- The school has made some major efforts to integrate those who affiliate on the same footing as the MSTP folks from day one, and I haven't heard of anyone experiencing "2nd rate" vibes. Seems more like the MSTP recipients feel like they won some random lottery amongst a group of equally impressive peers
- Curriculum (not NP, just P now 😛) - frustratingly rigid first year, though if your primary extracurricular is research, doable. Second year is clinical, but that'll dominate your life anywhere. After those two your time is mostly yours.
- Competitiveness - given the density of competing biomedical researchers between HMS, MIT, and affiliated hospitals there can be a pretty crazy work culture. However, given that same density you can find labs that are more your speed.
- Travel to Michigan is dirt cheap with Spirit from Boston
- If you're an entrepreneurial type, the biotech scene in the other locations comes nowhere close to Boston

All your options are fantastic, and it does seem crazy to turn down such high quality MSTP spots unless you have very specific HMS-specific goals (labs, venture capital, biotech, etc..). Just thought I'd give you something to chew on.

 

[okaymedicine]

Congrats on having a great decision to make! Just wanted to add in some HMS notes:

- The school has made some major efforts to integrate those who affiliate on the same footing as the MSTP folks from day one, and I haven't heard of anyone experiencing "2nd rate" vibes. Seems more like the MSTP recipients feel like they won some random lottery amongst a group of equally impressive peers
- Curriculum (not NP, just P now 😛) - frustratingly rigid first year, though if your primary extracurricular is research, doable. Second year is clinical, but that'll dominate your life anywhere. After those two your time is mostly yours.
- Competitiveness - given the density of competing biomedical researchers between HMS, MIT, and affiliated hospitals there can be a pretty crazy work culture. However, given that same density you can find labs that are more your speed.
- Travel to Michigan is dirt cheap with Spirit from Boston
- If you're an entrepreneurial type, the biotech scene in the other locations comes nowhere close to Boston

All your options are fantastic, and it does seem crazy to turn down such high quality MSTP spots unless you have very specific HMS-specific goals (labs, venture capital, biotech, etc..). Just thought I'd give you something to chew on.

Thank you very much for the insight! I agree I think the cut throat culture is not necessarily in every lab if you look carefully enough, but in my imited experience working here it definitely seems a bit more common than not. Biotech is also definitely on my radar but as a secondary goal, my primary aim is going into academia. Do you know if there is an internal transfer into the MSTP system at HMS, apart from the affiliate program?

 

[Lucca]

My vote is for Tri-I or Yale and based on your priorities, Tri-I. From your comments, it seems you are debating the HMS affiliate or MSTPs something I like to call Satan's dilemma as it happens to a handful of MSTP applicants every single cycle. If you were picking between mid-tier programs and HMS, I might tell you to consider HMS. However, Yale and Tri-I are the same tier as HMS and the name isn't worth the money you'll spend for the MD degree.

 

[574522]

Thank you very much for the insight! I agree I think the cut throat culture is not necessarily in every lab if you look carefully enough, but in my imited experience working here it definitely seems a bit more common than not. Biotech is also definitely on my radar but as a secondary goal, my primary aim is going into academia. Do you know if there is an internal transfer into the MSTP system at HMS, apart from the affiliate program?

As far as I'm aware MSTP has no movement. You can affiliate immediately after acceptance, which gives you the same summer rotations, mentoring opportunities, and general access to the MD/PhD resources and support as MSTP, but you need to find your own funding (which some folks somehow finnagle). Overall, the MSTP and non-MSTP are identical in every way except for funding (which is an admittedly big exception)

 

[ClinicianScientist]

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for all your support during the application process, and I am really very lucky and humbled to have the options I do now. My school doesn't have strong mentoring to help me make a decision so I need to ask the help of y'all fine folks.

Also, this post is with the caveat of me having yet to attend 2nd Look at the schools.

Backstory: I have been dating my SO for 3 years, and we see a future together (like very serious). However, they have recently received a full ride to UMich; we plan on doing long distance until she can match back nearby for residency in 5 years. My family also lives in New Jersey, so around an hour from NYC, 2 hours from New Haven, and 5 hours from Boston.

I have spent the last few years of my life in cities and love diversity of people, but I am more than happy in being a smaller city/town if it means it has diversity of people and perspectives as well.

My background has been in biochemistry and biophysics, but I am totally undecided as to what I want to pursue for my PhD. Maybe leaning towards something in biophysics/cell biology/biochemistry but really not sure. It is more about the mentorship in a good lab for me than a certain topic, since so few people even stay in their PhD field for the rest of their career anyways.

Cornell MSTP:
+Living in NYC seems like a lot of fun
+I really like the PIs at Rockefeller and some at MSK
+Easier to fly out to see my SO
+No car needed, easy transportation
+Closest to family
+More options for SO to match back in (their interest is in a competitive field)???

-NYC is so extremely expensive
-I do like having my space, which is tough in NYC
-Rockefeller is a relatively smaller institution with fewer PI
-The Tri-I training program is much more rigid and regimented

Yale MSTP:
+Less expensive and will have my own space
+Easiest to buy a house when SO matches back
+Yale System is way more flexible and reduces stress in medical school
+I also have an interest in bioethics/philosophy, and having an integrated campus with the undergrad campus and the Law school allow for some cool bioethics and philosophy opportunities
+Seem to have a broader cross-section of PI across diverse fields
+LOVED the people here, found the students, faculty, and administration to be especially warm and welcoming
+Pretty close to family

-Not as fun as NYC
-Will need to buy a car
-Match List at Tri-I seemed slightly stronger?
-Little tougher to fly out and see my SO

HMS NP w/ Affiliate MD/PhD:
+The Harvard name
+Lived and worked in HMS for a few years, so have a few friends here (at least till they leave) and know the work culture
+Strongest match list by far
+Many options for SO to match back in???
+Most diverse grouping of faculty with MIT, Dana Farber, HMS, Boston CHildren's etc.
+Easy to fly out and see SO

-Boston is super expensive
-The Affiliate program would need me to foot the bill for the first 2 years, and since I absolutely want the PhD, it cuts into the affordability
-Farthest from family
-Kind of a 2nd rate MD/PhD within the ranks of HMS (what I mean is compared to the MSTP students at HMS, this seems a little wrong)
-Most competitive/cut-throat work culture I have seen so far
-NP is pretty rigid with a lot of mandatory work

Thank you so much for your responses folks!!! Any input is fabulous, and if you could post your reasons I would be extremely appreciative 🙂

I'm in a relatively similar situation with my SO, and was wondering if you could PM me? I tried messaging you but perhaps due to your privacy settings, my message could not go through.

 

[okaymedicine]

I'm in a relatively similar situation with my SO, and was wondering if you could PM me? I tried messaging you but perhaps due to your privacy settings, my message could not go through.

Just PM'd you 🙂

 

[freelancePsychic]

I’d do Tri-I. In terms of prestige it is about tied with Yale and the marginal increase in reputation is not worth the cost of Harvard. NYC is a much better location. You’ll be busy but you’ll still be a person for the next 8+ years. I’ve spent a ton of time in new haven and while Yale is great there is basically nothing else to do here. NYC will also give you more opportunities to match close to your SO when it is your turn to apply.

 

[okaymedicine]

Thank you all for your input 🙂 I have decided to withdraw from HMS so I am not just holding on to an acceptance, and now it's between Yale and Tri-I for me!

 

[tardigrade12]

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