Yale's drop in the rankings

[ChocolateKiss]

So I have a question. I really liked Yale when I visited, but I am wondering why they dropped in the US news rankings over the past several years. They used to be ranked consistently 3rd, then dropped to 4-6, then 7-10 and are now at 11.

What changed? Did something get worse at Yale, or did something get better at other schools? Is this drop in the rankings due to something silly that won't affect my medical education, or should I be concerned? I know that 11 is still a great ranking, but I'm just a little uneasy about the downward trend. Any insights?

I have included a list of yearly rankings that I found in another thread for your reference.

2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1995 1993
Harvard 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Wash U 3 2 3 4 3 4 3 5 4 5 5
Hopkins 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
Duke 6 4 5 3 5 6 4 3 5 6 6
U Penn 4 4 4 4 3 3 4 7 6 7 7
UCSF 5 6 6 7 7 6 7 4 6 4 4
U Mich 9 7 8 9 12 10 9 9 9 11
Columbia 10 8 7 6 5 8 7 8 8 8 8
Stanford 8 8 11 9 10 10 9 10 10 9 9
U Wash 7 10 10 11 9 9 13 13 11 9 9
Yale 11 10 9 8 7 5 4 6 3 3 3
Cornell 14 12 11 11 14 13 9 12 12 17
Baylor 13 13 13 11 12 15 13 15 15 15
UCLA 11 14 13 14 10 10 12 11 13 12
U Pitt 16 15 17 20 19 24 19 17 17 18
Vanderbilt 1715 16 16 16 16 15 14 14 14
UCSD 14 17 20 24 23 22 19 20 18 13
UTSW 17 17 17 17 19 19 17 21 20
Emory 20 19 20 22 19 19 21 19 24
Northwestern 20 20 22 20 22 21 25
UNC 23 20 22 24 23 22
Mayo 23 22 15 15 15 14 24 24 22
U Chicago 19 22 19 17 18 18 18 16 16 16
Case 20 24 22 17 17 16 15 18 19 19
U Alabama 23 25 28 27 26 24 25
UVa 26 25 27 28 30 28
U Wisc 26 25 31 30 31 32
MSSM 32 28 22 23 23 27
Iowa 28 28 30 29 32 30
NYU 32 30 26 24 27 24 21 23 22 20
U Colorado 30 31 31 33 33 33
U Rochester 30 32 28 31 28 30
USC 32 32 36 43 40 36
Dartmouth 35 34 34 34 36 41
OHSU 35 34 35 35 39 36
U Minn 38 34 36 35 33 36
Yeshiva/Einstein 38 37 31 32 28 28 24 22 21
OSU 37 38 44 40 40 39
Indiana 45 39 47 43 40 41
Tufts 43 40 43 37 36 41
U Florida 46 40 44 40 44 45
Wake 41 40 39 43 50 45
Boston U 28 43 39 37 33 33
Brown 40 43 39 40 44
Georgetown 46 43 43 44 39
U Cinn 41 43 44 48 40 45
U Maryland 43 43 39 43 44 48
Utah xx 48 38 39 36 33
UCD 46 49
Jefferson xx 50 48 50 48
MCW xx 50 50 50
U Miami xx 50 49 48 50
UCI 46 53
U Mass 50 53 48 48 44 41
UT-Houston xx 53
StonyBrook xx 56
Tulane xx 56
UMDNJ xx RWJ 56
U Conn xx 59
VCU/MCV xx 60

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[dajimmers]

I have almost no factual information to give to you, but I'm sure someone else will. I do think that Yale is special, however, and so if you really liked it there, don't let the downward trend prevent you from going. I think it's bound to level out soon, or even reverse, unless something really bad is going on... When did they start the no-exam curriculum, maybe around 3-4 years before scores started dropping? (I have no idea, just guessing that may be a cause).

Without having all the factors that go into the score over all of the years it's hard to know why USNews lowered them. Maybe less NIH funding, lower residency director's scores, something... or nothing...

 

[OHare]

"The Yale system" like Stanford is not for everyone. I know someone who was afraid their board scores would be crappy from all the partying at Yale, so he went to Columbia P&S.

 

[DarkFark]

I think it's important to bear in mind that those rankings are extremely flawed. I'm no expert on Yale, but I do know that they won't sell as many magazines if they keep the rankings the same every year. Changes in methodology and variability in data due to the low response rate of the surveys (~30%) are major possible reasons for the shift in rankings.

 

[macadamianut]

The thing is the "Yale System" has existed for at least 50 years, if not much longer, so I have no idea what has changed to precipitate such a drop.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Excuse me, but did you see their 2005 matchlist. It speaks for itself.

 

[gaganheim]

Well, since this is a ranking of research hospitals, you might look at NIH funding rankings, where Yale has dropped from 6th to 12th. I could very easily just be in the wrong field, but I have not seen many papers in top-tier journals from Yale SOM recently. If they do some smart recruiting, I think they could very easily reverse this trend, but I have no idea of their inner workings.

 

[LizzyM]

Federal funding doesn't tell the whole story either, and it is a flawed measure of research funding. Yale, among others, is doing embryonic stem cell research which, of course, is not federally funded.

 

[etudiante04]

So I have a question. I really liked Yale when I visited, but I am wondering why they dropped in the US news rankings over the past several years. They used to be ranked consistently 3rd, then dropped to 4-6, then 7-10 and are now at 11.

What changed? Did something get worse at Yale, or did something get better at other schools? Is this drop in the rankings due to something silly that won't affect my medical education, or should I be concerned? I know that 11 is still a great ranking, but I'm just a little uneasy about the downward trend. Any insights?

Other schools improved, Yale remained the same. No, seriously, who knows?

 

[BrownTheDoc]

So I have a question. I really liked Yale when I visited, but I am wondering why they dropped in the US news rankings over the past several years. They used to be ranked consistently 3rd, then dropped to 4-6, then 7-10 and are now at 11.

What changed? Did something get worse at Yale, or did something get better at other schools? Is this drop in the rankings due to something silly that won't affect my medical education, or should I be concerned? I know that 11 is still a great ranking, but I'm just a little uneasy about the downward trend. Any insights?

Other schools improved, Yale remained the same. No, seriously, who knows?

They got a new dean. The old dean went to one of the UC medical schools, i think UCSF.

 

[Depakote]

A magazine told me that the school suddenly got bad over the 3 months from last academic year to this one.

It must suck, I'm not going.

 

[DrRads101]

That's an interesting list. Seems to be that the consistently rising stars are WashU, Penn, UTSW, Northwestern, and Wisconsin.

 

[Einsteinemc2]

Excuse me, but did you see their 2005 matchlist. It speaks for itself.

I hear this a lot. Can somebody please tell me who has a bad matchlist?

 

[J5L]

I have not seen many papers in top-tier journals from Yale SOM recently. If they do some smart recruiting, I think they could very easily reverse this trend, but I have no idea of their inner workings.

what field are you in? I see them all the time.

I think the drop is just due to changes in the formula used by USNEWS. There would be no way to reverse the trend when you don't know what formula the magazine will be using 5 years from now (and would be stupid to try and increase your ranking anyway)

 

[masterMood]

it's Yale, it's pretty much guaranteed you'll have pick for residency man.

 

[tigress]

I hear this a lot. Can somebody please tell me who has a bad matchlist?

Yeah, I've yet to see a bad matchlist. They are different to a certain degree, but it's hard to tell what that's due to, since there are SO many factors.

 

[J5L]

A magazine told me that the school suddenly got bad over the 3 months from last academic year to this one.

It must suck, I'm not going.

I wish they would rank the schools weekly.

 

[CTSballer11]

I would not be caught dead at a school like Yale. It is not even a top 10 school. I wonder what losers go there.

 

[jbrice1639]

they've dropped to 11?! hell, might as well go to the caribbean if you're gonna go to a school ranked that low....

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

Yet another reason why US News rankings really means very little. I wouldn't read too much into the rankings drop.

 

[.edu-MD]

In related news...
The Dow was up 1.035306 points while the S&P slid 0.3964 points. The NASDAQ remained steady, losing only 0.000315 points.


Who cares about US News? One year they might weight NIH research funding 25% and the next year 35%. Like someone already said, their purpose is to sell magazines. If the list was static, their sales would drop. If the list had some unknown schools near the top, their sales would drop. Because then the public (who already HAVE their own preconceived ideas) would think, what does this hokey magazine know, ranking all those Ivies near the bottom! What rubbish! And noone would buy. So what's their strategy? Come up with a system that is "objective" enough and meets the preconceived expectations of the magazine buyer. They can then tinker with this "objective" system slightly every year to make the list change enough to warrant people buying a new version every year.

 

[J5L]

So I have a question. I really liked Yale when I visited, but I am wondering why they dropped in the US news rankings over the past several years.

If rankings mean so much to you, then you shouldn't be reading US News, it is ranked #3 out of the 3 main news magazines in the USA.

wait for Time or Newsweek to rank the schools.

 

[huknows00]

I'm considering Yale myself, and I can't deny the consistent drop in rankings has given me some doubt. Don't get me wrong, 11 is a great ranking, but wouldn't you rather be at a school which is on the rise like Wash U than a school that (according to USNews) is on the way down?

I think Yale's decrease in research funding probably contributed to this drop, but how much does that affect your MEDICAL education? I personally like the Yale system a lot, and my biggest worry about going there is the crappy town of New Haven.

 

[06applicant]

I personally like the Yale system a lot, and my biggest worry about going there is the crappy town of New Haven.

I hear a lot of people say that about New Haven, what is wrong with it?

 

[jjmack]

They got a new dean. The old dean went to one of the UC medical schools, i think UCSF.

I heard that the old dean wasn't very good for the medical school and they didn't expand and grow like other schools did in the 90's. I think this is a large cause of their driop.

 

[06applicant]

I heard that the old dean wasn't very good for the medical school and they didn't expand and grow like other schools did in the 90's. I think this is a large cause of their driop.

The old dean is now dean of UCSF

 

[.edu-MD]

If rankings mean so much to you, then you shouldn't be reading US News, it is ranked #3 out of the 3 main news magazines in the USA.

wait for Time or Newsweek to rank the schools.

👍

Heh, that was the USNews Rankings of news magazines right? Seriously, if they can't even be #1 in their own rankings, how can you read them? Newsweek's even forecasting that next year, USNews will be relegated to non-ranked status.

 

[infiniti]

The old dean seems to be doing just well at UCSF.

 

[funshine]

I don't know anything about Yale's financial troubles or why exactly their rankings have dropped, but I think Yale draws very mature, independent people who want to take responsiblity for their own learning--like studying for boards on their own rather than expecting class exams to prepare them. I'm willing to bet many students accepted to any top 10 school -minus Harvard- would still choose Yale over the rest even though it's ranked #11. Yale has a pretty strong molbio research program with plenty of big name PIs so you shouldn't be worried about not finding good research opportunities. I'm surprised you're all so worried about New Haven. Granted it's no NYC/Boston/SF, but last I heard, it was teeming with awesome restaurants and nightlife...no ghetto feel at all...and relatively cheap cost of living. I'd be more worried about living in Philly, personally.

 

[Bluntman]

I hear a lot of people say that about New Haven, what is wrong with it?

For a long time, it was basically a blue-collar manufacturing town. This is usually not a desirable trait, since it is linked with crime, lack of culture, pollution, etc. Then as the US economy shifted away from manufacturing, the town got even worse. (Similar to what happened to Detroit). At one point, it was even the "crack capital of the US", whatever that means.

However, everyone there says that things have changed dramatically over the last 20 years, and in fact, that this upward trend is accelerating. It's still a pretty small place, but at least now people rave about the variety of food and entertainment, and the decreasing crime.

A good way that someone described it to me is that it has all the ups/downs of a big city, but on a much smaller scale.

 

[jbrice1639]

At one point, it was even the "crack capital of the US"

sounds like great teaching cases in the emercency medicine rotations...

 

[bubbleyum]

do those little shifts in rankings really matter? 90% of people who apply to med school would give their left buttcheek to go to yale!!

 

[tigress]

do those little shifts in rankings really matter? 90% of people who apply to med school would give their left buttcheek to go to yale!!

hmm, I'm rather fond of that one. How about the right buttcheek?

 

[06applicant]

I'm willing to bet many students accepted to any top 10 school -minus Harvard- would still choose Yale over the rest even though it's ranked #11.

minus Harvard and JHU.

 

[jrae]

At least the school I'll be attending has consistent research rankings (right around 30 was it??). Personally if you're that worried about you schools ranking, maybe you should think about what you are looking for.

What would I do if I'd been accepted to any of those top ten schools?? Jump up and down, then realized that unless I got one kicking scholarship or eliminated my living expenses, there was no way I was ever going to justify giving up my good ol' state school....

 

[bubbleyum]

hmm, I'm rather fond of that one. How about the right buttcheek?

no, it has to be the LEFT buttcheek! the right buttcheek is essential to my daily activties. at work when i am sitting in front of the computer and cross my legs, the right buttcheek is what supports the whole weight of my body in my chair...

 

[happydays]

did anyone else notice that NYU and Yeshiva/Einstein dropping 10+ places since 1993? That's a lot more drastic than Yale.

 

[jjmack]

The old dean seems to be doing just well at UCSF.

I agree, but that is what I have heard from professors at yale when I was interviewing for MSTP there last year.

 

[exmike]

That's an interesting list. Seems to be that the consistently rising stars are WashU, Penn, UTSW, Northwestern, and Wisconsin.

what? it appears to me that NU has had the same ranking for the last 10 years... (a good ranking i might add)

 

[CatsandCradles]

👍

Heh, that was the USNews Rankings of news magazines right? Seriously, if they can't even be #1 in their own rankings, how can you read them? Newsweek's even forecasting that next year, USNews will be relegated to non-ranked status.

Non ranked! lol