You should all read this!

[jmnykrkts]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Haha...no kidding that problem doesn't exist in Canada to the extent it does here in the US. The US is historically different from Canada and therefore our socioeconomic classes are based on different circumstances. Understanding US history and the events that have come before our time helps in this scenario.

Agreed. Perhaps I wasn't clear in my previous post but I was alluding to the fact that one of the primary setbacks to having privatized healthcare in the US is that it doesn't adequately addresss the hugely stratified nature of your society. I agree that Canada has totally different precursors to our class system but I do think that a decent comparison can still be made between the quality of health care provided to our low income citizens vs yours.

 

[bigbassinbob]

cromagnon, bigbassinbob:

Damn, you guys are tough guys huh? You guys need to get out and do some community service and see the problems out there…





The aamc president reminds me of a lot of leaders in CA education (ex/ Atkinson (former UC Regents), and current Chancellor at Berkeley) that realize that something isn't right. We definitely don't need affirmative action (I am not sure of the solution), but we need people that are going to treat people that are under-served. I totally agree that the people much more like to do that would be from the same ethnic background. I.E. Hispanic population can't be helped if the doctor doesn't know Spanish well, thus a hispanic doctor could understand the patient and in addition know the ethic customs to make the patient feel more comfortable.

I'm glad you know that affirmative action is wrong, because it is. I won't really go into the many reasons I believe it's wrong since I've argued about it roughly 50 times on this board. I do recognize where you're coming from -- there are millions of minority people who do not have the option of proper medical care, or any medical care in most cases. This is a major problem. But what does this come from? Does it really come from a lack of minority physicians in those areas? Or just a lack of physicians who are willing to work outside the typical healthcare system? The AAMC presidouche is completely missing the base of the problem here -- money. The reason that so many minorities don't have access to medical care is that they DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY! It has absolutely nothing to do with race, or with the fact that there's not a black/hispanic doctor down the street from them! There are simply more minorities in poor, center-city areas than there are white people. Training more black/hispanic physicians isn't going to make a dent in this issue, unless they're willing to work for free. Sure you can offer free clinics, which many physicians do, but that isn't going to do much either. As a matter of fact, I know of a great physician who offers free clinics every weekend in southwestern NC. Guess what race he is? Not black, not hispanic, but 100% caucasian. So minorities aren't the only type of physicians willing to serve the underserved, nor are they necessarily the majority of physicians willing to do so. I like the idea of letting people into medical school who are willing to do this type of work, but by trying to solve this very complex issue by simply pretending a bit of political correctness will fix it is just asinine. The problem is money, plain and simple. Which brings us to the bigger issue facing medicine -- the skyrocketing costs of insurance are forcing the costs of medical care sky high, putting it out-of-reach for tens of millions of Americans. And it's getting much worse every year. THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED IMMEDIATELY! Yet our AAMC presidouche won't shutup about diversity in medical schools. What a worthless and complete failure he has been. Get him out of office ASAP!!

 

[VPDcurt]

Agreed. Perhaps I wasn't clear in my previous post but I was alluding to the fact that one of the primary setbacks to having privatized healthcare in the US is that it doesn't adequately addresss the hugely stratified nature of your society. I agree that Canada has totally different precursors to our class system but I do think that a decent comparison can still be made between the quality of health care provided to our low income citizens vs yours.

Bottom line - anyone in the US can walk into an emergency room and receive care. It is illegal for the hospital to turn away anyone that is in need of medical care.

 

[VPDcurt]

I agree that Canada has totally different precursors to our class system but I do think that a decent comparison can still be made between the quality of health care provided to our low income citizens vs yours.

Welcome to capitalism.

 

[abraxas]

Bottom line - anyone in the US can walk into an emergency room and receive care. It is illegal for the hospital to turn away anyone that is in need of medical care.

America has great Health care when you sick, you come in with a MI they will do what ever they have to, to save your life. But at the same time if this person came in a month ago with a really really high cholesterol level we would just send them away because they don't have insurance and can not afford the meds they need and because the ER is not a place to be prescribing Cholestrol Meds. With out health care it is close to impossible to get prophylactic treatment.

 

[VPDcurt]

How about subsidizing docs who decide to work in certain areas (low-income, rural...)? This is how we do it up north, but alas, probably never going to happen in the US with the privatized medical system

You come in here and criticize the American system, yet you, like most other Canadians, probably want to attend a US medical school. I understand that US Medical Schools are far superior to Canadian medical schools, but why do so many Canadians like to come down here for a medical education when all they do is complain about the US? Oh that's right - because the only halfway decent school in Canada is McGill, and unfortunately (for you guys) there are about 85 medical schools in the US that make McGill look like a community college. So just stay up in Canada and hope that you don't have to whistle for a Mountie when someone steals your stethoscope.

 

[VPDcurt]

America has great Health care when you sick, you come in with a MI they will do what ever they have to, to save your life. But at the same time if this person came in a month ago with a really really high cholesterol level we would just send them away because they don't have insurance and can not afford the meds they need and because the ER is not a place to be prescribing Cholestrol Meds. With out health care it is close to impossible to get prophylactic treatment.

Apparently you haven't been to Canada. I have relatives in Canada and they come down to the US to get healthcare. One had an aneurysm and he was told to wait 5 months to see his doctor. If you think that any country can create the perfect healthcare system, then you are living in a dreamworld. There are downfalls to every system. However, I strongly believe that America has the best to offer in this department as well (what a coincidence).

 

[abraxas]

Apparently you haven't been to Canada. I have relatives in Canada and they come down to the US to get healthcare. One had an aneurysm and he was told to wait 5 months to see his doctor. If you think that any country can create the perfect healthcare system, then you are living in a dreamworld. There are downfalls to every system. However, I strongly believe that America has the best to offer in this department as well (what a coincidence).

Where the Hell canada come from i never once mentioned it?

 

[VPDcurt]

Where the Hell canada come from i never once mentioned it?

I never said that you mentioned it. See post #4. I am just making a point and I am bringing Canada into that particular situation because it is relevant to show that every system has flaws.

 

[grasshoppah]

Yeah! One time I was visiting Canada (nice people) and had an accident and sprained my ankle, so I went to an emergency room, but the doctor tried to fix my shoulder. I told him again it was my ankle! So he looked at my other shoulder and I said forget it and just drove back across the border to an American ER. But the doctor that showed up wasn't white, so I was a little leary. Not sure if he just got by in school and all. But he did good. He got it right, unlike our neigbor to the north! Well, it just so happened that the ER I stopped into was inner city ER and I had to wait a long time in a crowded waiting room, but I figured anything would be better than that Canadian doc. It occured to me that I wouldn't have had to wait too long if this hopsital had more money. So just in case it happened again that I get stuck in an inner city ER, I wrote my lawmakers and President Bush a letter saying that they need to invest more money in health care and educating doctors and such. They actually wrote back and said they would but they had this war thing going on in Iraqistan or something and the war on terror and the war on drugs and the war on cancer and the war on war, and it's costing a lot of money to fight all these wars. Plus they had all their corporate buddies they needed to get contracts to, and that's more money. Well, they also mentioned that they were at least fixing the diversity "problem" by sending troops recruited from disadvantaged segments of our population. That's a relief. Well, that's all. Gotta log into RushLimbaugh.com now. America! F*ck Yeah!

 

[Babooshka]

Or how about an AAMC-funded MCAT review class for underrepresented minorities that is equivalent to Kaplan or PR? Just a pipe dream...

and for women. and red-heads.

 

[domukin]

You think that only URM's face these challenges? What about the kid on a farm in the middle of nowhere? Is he any different? Do you seriously believe that certain races are "oppressed" across the board while other races are not? Do you believe that there aren't people living paycheck to paycheck in suburbia and that the only bad schools are in low socioeconomic areas?

You create quite the picture of disadvantage with problems you state above. But who is that person who can't afford prep courses and goes to underfunded schools. That could be anybody. It was me. There are people serving in the military (like I did) in order to pay for college. Do you think all these people are URM's?

And what are you doing to a group of people when you tell them that they are different and need special help in order to achieve anything in life? Do you really think that is good? Would you raise your kids like that?

While your intentions may be noble, your solution is both misguided and misapplied. Is it unfair that certain people have to work harder to get things in life? Yes. Can you classify those people based soley on race? NO.

I actually agree with you. They should classify based on socioeconomic status, not just race, and to an extent they do with the "disadvantaged background" part in most applications.

However, you also have to realize that some discrimination and social stigmas still exist, and if there isn't someone minding what races/ethnicities get in, a lot of people of color could easily get the shaft for whatever reason.

 

[jmnykrkts]

You come in here and criticize the American system, yet you, like most other Canadians, probably want to attend a US medical school. I understand that US Medical Schools are far superior to Canadian medical schools, but why do so many Canadians like to come down here for a medical education when all they do is complain about the US? Oh that's right - because the only halfway decent school in Canada is McGill, and unfortunately (for you guys) there are about 85 medical schools in the US that make McGill look like a community college. So just stay up in Canada and hope that you don't have to whistle for a Mountie when someone steals your stethoscope.

First off, let me apologize to you VPDcurt, and anyone I may have offended with my suggestions above. It was not my intention to have the post come off as a 'my country is better than yours' spiel. I fully recognize that every system has its flaws and that the Canadian system is no way an exception. Indeed, many Canadians (myself included) recognize the problems inherent to our system: the brain drain, lack of resources, long waits, etc. I'm not trying to argue that public health care is the final answer. I was merely suggesting one possible way to combat the issue of unequal access to healthcare in the US. It is my belief that, while there are setbacks to public healthcare, our system of subsidizing physicians to practice in underrepresented areas deals well with this particular problem.

VPDcurt, it seems that you have -for whatever reason- taken my comments as a personal attack. Where does all the defensiveness come from? Why the need to hurl insults? You are misinformed about Canadian med schools. Have a look at the admissions requirements for any of the top 4 med schools in Canada - UBC, UofT, Queens and McGill - and you'll find that they are as, if not more competitive than many of the top American schools (less so than Harvard and some other top 10, granted, but not far behind). That, in fact, is why many Canadians end up at American med schools (save those top 10 schools) -- because they are not competitive enough to get into a Canadian school.

Incidentally, thanks for the backhanded compliment to my alma matter....

 

[VPDcurt]

I took it personally because I am sick and tired of Canadians having their say in American issues. Americans usually don't comment on Canada because, quite frankly, most of us don't even know care to admit that Canada exists.

 

[jmnykrkts]

I took it personally because I am sick and tired of Canadians having their say in American issues.

Oh, so people coming on to a discussion forum shouldn't always feel so entitled to express their ideas?

Good argument.

 

[VPDcurt]

Oh, so people coming on to a discussion forum shouldn't always feel so entitled to express their ideas?

Good argument.

Nice try buddy. Don't put words in my mouth. You are entitled to express your ideas. I never said that you couldn't, did I? I didn't think so. On the same note, I am entitled to express my ideas as well, and that is all I have done here. Thanks for comin' out.

 

[jmnykrkts]

Nice try buddy. Don't put words in my mouth. You are entitled to express your ideas. I never said that you couldn't, did I? I didn't think so. On the same note, I am entitled to express my ideas as well, and that is all I have done here. Thanks for comin' out.

Not putting words in your mouth. Just commenting on the fact that you were very quick to launch your offensive there just because my views weren't in line with yours. Why not discuss these things without making it personal (eg. canadian school slander)?

 

[riceman04]

Nice try buddy. Don't put words in my mouth. You are entitled to express your ideas. I never said that you couldn't, did I? I didn't think so. On the same note, I am entitled to express my ideas as well, and that is all I have done here. Thanks for comin' out.

So do you see why I have nothing to contribute to this thread (I forgot how you so eloquently tried to give me an ultimatum in regards to posting on this thread). It's funny to think that you thought you were engaging in intelligent conversation (when really you were not....sorry to bust your little pre-med bubble). One would think that since you have posted over 1000 posts (assuming that you must have been involved in this type of discussion before) you would realize how nothing but a circumlocution occurs in these types of threads. Nothing is accomplished, people dont specifically address the situation within the boundaries of "decent & enlightening conversation", and would rather spend their time arguing about how unfair life is, how minorities somehow always get the benefit of the doubt despite not being as qualified, and how......international people need to stop meddling in "American topics" (how funny you try and indirectly exclude, or include only to make reproaching coments about them.

SO that's why I decided that it is pointless for me to write "posts with some substance."

Cya! But I wouldn't want 2B ya!