exPCM

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Look at the financial statement (pdf file) from a 21 resident FP residency program (see page 17 of pdf file) in Cedar Rapids Iowa
Please note that the typical resident makes about 51K per year plus benefits so maybe around 1.2-1.3 million per year total for all the residents.
http://www.crmef.org/benefits.php
However the program has support and revenue of over 5 million a year.
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2008/391/894/2008-391894395-0526d046-9.pdf
Anyone who thinks residency training is more about education than money is hopelessly naive IMO.
 
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trophyhusband

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Look at the financial statement (pdf file) from a 21 resident FP residency program (see page 17 of pdf file) in Cedar Rapids Iowa
Please note that the typical resident makes about 51K per year plus benefits so maybe around 1.2-1.3 million per year total for all the residents.
http://www.crmef.org/benefits.php
However the program has support and revenue of over 5 million a year.
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2008/391/894/2008-391894395-0526d046-9.pdf
Anyone who thinks residency training is more about education than money is hopelessly naive IMO.
I'm not sure I get your point. If you look at the tax return:

Revenue $5,449,983
Residency Program Expenses ($4,660,950)
Management Expenses ($581,443)
Excess $207,590


From the looks of the tax return the facility really only exists because of the residency program. So the residency expenses eat up 89% of the total revenue. The largest part of which is salaries and wages of employees. If you look at page 5 they have one paid officer and that officer's salary/benefits certainly does not seem exorbitant. If you look at Schedule A (page 10) it lists the salaries of the top 5 employees none of which look to be hugely out of line.

I don't know maybe they could spread that extra $207k to the residents but they maybe saving that for future capital outlays or something.

I'm sure there are good examples of residency being more about money than training but this isn't it, IMHO.
 

exPCM

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I'm not sure I get your point. If you look at the tax return:

Revenue $5,449,983
Residency Program Expenses ($4,660,950)
Management Expenses ($581,443)
Excess $207,590


From the looks of the tax return the facility really only exists because of the residency program. So the residency expenses eat up 89% of the total revenue. The largest part of which is salaries and wages of employees. If you look at page 5 they have one paid officer and that officer's salary/benefits certainly does not seem exorbitant. If you look at Schedule A (page 10) it lists the salaries of the top 5 employees none of which look to be hugely out of line.

I don't know maybe they could spread that extra $207k to the residents but they maybe saving that for future capital outlays or something.

I'm sure there are good examples of residency being more about money than training but this isn't it, IMHO.

Revenue $5,449,983
Resident salaries and benefits: ~$1,300,000
So the question is what are they doing with the 4.1 million per year not being paid to the residents.
A. You have a lot of pigs feeding from the resident trough.
Really simple.
 

trophyhusband

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Revenue $5,449,983
Resident salaries and benefits: ~$1,300,000
So the question is what are they doing with the 4.1 million per year not being paid to the residents.
A. You have a lot of pigs feeding from the resident trough.
Really simple.
So the residents can train themselves and do not need any support staff?

Ok, lets do this again:

Total Salaries/Benefits $3,349,952
Residents Salaries Benefits ($1,300,000)
Non-Resident Sal/Bene $2,049,952
Top 5 Salaries/Bene of non-Directors (Attendings) ($1,048,095)
President's Salary/Bene ($262,779)
Salaries/Bene for all other employees $739,078

So you have $739,078 to spread around for any other attendings outside of the top 5, any nurses, any billing staff, ect.

Again, none of this seems particularly excessive.
 

exPCM

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So the residents can train themselves and do not need any support staff?

Ok, lets do this again:

Total Salaries/Benefits $3,349,952
Residents Salaries Benefits ($1,300,000)
Non-Resident Sal/Bene $2,049,952
Top 5 Salaries/Bene of non-Directors (Attendings) ($1,048,095)
President's Salary/Bene ($262,779)
Salaries/Bene for all other employees $739,078

So you have $739,078 to spread around for any other attendings outside of the top 5, any nurses, any billing staff, ect.

Again, none of this seems particularly excessive.
So you think these attendings do no billable work and spend 100% of their time teaching. Get a grip. IMO the attendings would not be able to make as much money for as little work as they can in a residency program. That is why IMO residency programs are filled with docs who want to make easy money instead of doing the hard work to make a profit in private practice.
From what I have seen, many residency program docs only see patients in clinic 2 days a week.
 

trophyhusband

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So you think these attendings do no billable work and spend 100% of their time teaching. Get a grip. IMO the attendings would not be able to make as much money for as little work as they can in a residency program. That is why IMO residency programs are filled with docs who want to make easy money instead of doing the hard work to make a profit in private practice.
From what I have seen, many residency program docs only see patients in clinic 2 days a week.
1. I never said that did I? The billable work they're doing goes into that revenue figure you keep bringing up.

2. Ummmmm... really? This is your example for easy money? The top paid attending is $229,598 and the 5th highest is $149,665. The top one could have been there for 20 years for all you know. Like I said, I'm not doubting there are abuses out there in regard to residency funding but using this place as an example doesn't make sense.