your thoughts on my status

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dentalWorks

Nights Watchmen
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Hello folks, been visiting this site for a few months now and finally decided to post all my questions and concerns in 1 post.

My name is Jessica, and I guess people around here would refer to me as a non-traditional applicant. A little story about me, I have been working as a software programmer for almost 4 years now; title: senior software engineer. And almost 3 years ago, I started attending MSU to complete my pre-dent requirements (as a post-bacc student).

So far, in my past 3 years, I have taken 49 credits, with a straight 4.0, classes include my 100, 200, 300 and 400 level biologies and chemistries (General biologies, general chemistries, Organics, human anatomy, genetics, biochemistry I, pharmacology, microbiology, sociology, and I think thats all off the top of my head)

However, When I combine these 48 credits with my old initial undergrad degree (Computer Science major), it totals out to about a 3.28 (or around there). And the reason is, my initial undergrad degree was from 140 credits with a 3.0 GPA. However, my science, right now, I believe it be much higher, more like a 3.8 (maybe even more)

So my current numbers are:
GPA (overall) : 3.28
Science GPA (overall) : 3.8+
Post-bacc : 4.0 (48 credits)

So the questions I have so far are:

1) majority of the dental schools I look at, have higher GPAs (between 3.4 and 3.6), how bad in your opinions does this make me look?

2) The beast: DAT, I have been working on the kaplan blue book 2009-2010 edition, mostly focusing on the Biology part cause I think thats the most broad section of the DAT. When I took the practice test as the end of the book (just for the biology section), I felt it was kinda easy, I scored 36 out of the possible 40, which I think according to thier score is like a 21, In your opinions, is the actual biology DAT similar or harder than this practice test?

3) I bought the newest version of the destroyer (one with 350 biology questions), and I have worked through most of them, I average about 7 correct out of every 10, which is wayyyy lower than what I scored on the Kaplan blue book biology, it is kinda frustrating to me, so what I want to know is, how similar is the actual Biology on the DAT to the destroyer DAT..... I have used the search function of this site regarding this very question, and I always read mixed thoughts, some say its "way off" some say "its very good". But thats kinda confusing to me because I think of the destroyer as a study tool rather than a test simulator.

4) When I read the latest barrons DAT book, they say that 53% of applicants to dental schools get to matriculate at some school each cycle, this number seems a little too high for me, is this true?

well, I don't wanna make this any longer lol, I really appreciate you guys providing me with answers to the above questions.... also, if you have any comments / suggestions (harsh or nice) to make, please feel free to speak your mind

P.S I have not applied yet, and I "might" wait till next cycle since I haven't taken the DAT yet, and won't plan on it till I am VERY ready.

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1) majority of the dental schools I look at, have higher GPAs (between 3.4 and 3.6), how bad in your opinions does this make me look?

Well, with a 3.28 cGPA and 3.8 sGPA, you'll be fine with a good DAT. A lot of schools like to look for a higher science GPA. In my opinion your scores put you on the same playing field as those with 3.4s and 3.5s.


3) how similar is the actual Biology on the DAT to the destroyer DAT.....

Destroyer is harder than the actual DAT (which is probably only true for Destroyer, and not for other study tools). If you do know Destroyer, there's a good chance you'll do well on the DAT. Destroyer is definitely the most challenging DAT tool out there. I bought Destroyer but didn't use it as much as I should have, and I'm positive my TS would have been higher if I had.

4) When I read the latest barrons DAT book, they say that 53% of applicants to dental schools get to matriculate at some school each cycle, this number seems a little too high for me, is this true?

I think the number is more in the 40% range? The number of applicants are increasing each year, though they're adding new schools and more seats to existing schools, so who knows what the percentage is this year.

P.S I have not applied yet, and I "might" wait till next cycle since I haven't taken the DAT yet, and won't plan on it till I am VERY ready.

Apply when you're ready. A rushed Personal Statement could kill your app, and so can a low DAT score if you didn't study enough. If you can complete the application and do well on the DAT within the next 3-4 weeks, than go for it. Otherwise, you might want to wait till next cycle and apply on THE FIRST DAY (June 1st). You should start your application now, fill in all the blanks and write your PS, and then print it out or save it on a Word file, so you'll be ready to fill everything out right away next cycle and submit immediately. You don't need to pay anything until you submit.
 
MSU as in...Michigan State University or Mississippi State?
 
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I'm sure you'll have a chance. One of the dentist i met said he got in with a 3.0. He did very well on the DAT. If you are doing noting, you can still apply this cycle. One week for personal statement and 1 & 1/2 month for DAT. Submit your app within 2 weeks though.
 
I believe the Biology section in Kaplan was considerably easier than the real thing. Destroyer for the Bio section isn't as useful as for the O chem and Gen chem because it just doesn't cover enough material, it just has a few hundred practice questions. The Kaplan biology review section doesn't do a comprehensive job covering Bio either, so I would recommend getting Schaum's or some other Bio review book, and study it hard.
 
thank you all for your responses, and yes MSU as in michigan state

With the way I am going these days, I don't think i'll be able to take the DAT until september (Im only able to study about 3 to 4 hrs a day)... and MOST of my time is spent on biology. I just don't know what to focus on, the Biology in the Kaplan blue book seems not too in-depth, so I am supplementing it with Barrons (new DAT version) and cliffs-ap biology. But I just don't know what to memorize, there is SOOOO much information to know, you simply can not memorize everything.

If anyone used the barrons DAT book, did they find the RC passages to be SUPER difficult? I mean god darn it, those passages were very hard to comprehend, and when I compare them to kaplans, kaplans seems easier, did people experience this too?

One final question I have is, and this is mostly an opinion type, what kind of DAT score should I be aiming at, I mean, If I go in and end up with an AA of 18 or 19, is that a re-take?

thanks again in advance
 
thank you all for your responses, and yes MSU as in michigan state

With the way I am going these days, I don't think i'll be able to take the DAT until september (Im only able to study about 3 to 4 hrs a day)... and MOST of my time is spent on biology. I just don't know what to focus on, the Biology in the Kaplan blue book seems not too in-depth, so I am supplementing it with Barrons (new DAT version) and cliffs-ap biology. But I just don't know what to memorize, there is SOOOO much information to know, you simply can not memorize everything.

It seems like you have all the right study material for DAT. As far as memorizing the material, I'd say its not much about memorizing, its actually understanding the material and making the connections. If you think this is overwhelming then dental school is probably worse. I am not trying to discourage you, in fact you should think about this in more of a positive light. I personally used Kaplan, Barrons, Schuam's outline, Cliffs, and the biology textbook (I am a visual learner, so mostly for pictures). I liked all of my study material, but a combo of schaums and cliff was the best comprehensive review for biology. Even if you use one without the other, it is way better than either Barrons or Kaplan. I am not going to say anything different than most SDNers, study your basics with cliff or schaums and then pick up destroyer. Practice with Achiever and Kaplan CD or online class practice tests.
If anyone used the barrons DAT book, did they find the RC passages to be SUPER difficult? I mean god darn it, those passages were very hard to comprehend, and when I compare them to kaplans, kaplans seems easier, did people experience this too?

RC on the real thing is way harder than Kaplan, so if you think Barrons was harder than do more of Barrons!!
One final question I have is, and this is mostly an opinion type, what kind of DAT score should I be aiming at, I mean, If I go in and end up with an AA of 18 or 19, is that a re-take?

This is not the same for everyone depending on your overall package, credentials etc, but looking at your GPA I'd say shoot for at least 20.
thanks again in advance
..
 
I'm in a similar boat and the only school I've had a chance to talk to was UoP.

I did a music major first and was not very studious, followed by the biology major my fifth year in college. I ended up with a 3.45 overall and a 3.95 science gpa. My transcript includes one quarter where I had an F and an overall gpa of around 2.0 and was put on academic probation.

I had a preadmissions interview at UoP and they looked over my transcripts and didn't seem to care at all about my previous bad grades. I can't speak for other schools, however.

That being said, I have pretty good DAT scores: PAT 23, AA 23, TS 23 w/ no score below 21.

I'm hoping (as I'm sure you are) that schools will realize my potential I exhibited at the end of my undergraduate career, rather than dwell on the relatively bad grades I received when I was younger.

Good luck!
 
Hello folks, been visiting this site for a few months now and finally decided to post all my questions and concerns in 1 post.

My name is Jessica, and I guess people around here would refer to me as a non-traditional applicant. A little story about me, I have been working as a software programmer for almost 4 years now; title: senior software engineer. And almost 3 years ago, I started attending MSU to complete my pre-dent requirements (as a post-bacc student).

So far, in my past 3 years, I have taken 49 credits, with a straight 4.0, classes include my 100, 200, 300 and 400 level biologies and chemistries (General biologies, general chemistries, Organics, human anatomy, genetics, biochemistry I, pharmacology, microbiology, sociology, and I think thats all off the top of my head)

However, When I combine these 48 credits with my old initial undergrad degree (Computer Science major), it totals out to about a 3.28 (or around there). And the reason is, my initial undergrad


I used kaplan destroyer cliffs and shaums to study for the biology. The first time i took the dat there was A question on the test that was exactly like a question from destroyer. the second time there were more similar questions from cliffs than destroyer so i guess just study all and you'll be set!
 
Just an update everyone, I just took the DAT on oct 29th, here are my scores...

PA - 20 (81%)
QR - 18 (86.6%)
RC - 19 (67.6%)
BIO - 21 (95.5%)
GC - 24 (98%)
OC - 21 (89.7%)
TS - 22 (98.3%)
AA - 21 (97.2%)

I did not end up applying this past summer, so I am gonna wait for next cycle. But AS SOON as the application process opens up, Im going to apply (Im talkin june 1st lol).... I am a michigan resident and I am aiming to apply to about 25+ schools.

Question, I have some free time these days, I was wondering If its a good idea for me to take another semester (starting this january) as post-bacc, I mean I have been doing the post-bacc thing for about 2.5 year now, and I've taken all my pre-dents and lot of upper level sciences, I was thinking maybe 1 more semester of those upper sciences wouldn't do me any harm.

What do you guys suggest I do at this point to increase my odds of getting in?
 
Applying to 25 schools would be costly.... 15 is the top I would suggest
see if you could visit any open houses if you have DS nearby. Usually if you call off season Feb- April adcoms are available to talk to you and go over your application etc.
You will also need to show why you are changing careers and your commitment to dentistry so this part has to be especially strong since you are non trad applicant.
 
P.S I have not applied yet, and I "might" wait till next cycle since I haven't taken the DAT yet, and won't plan on it till I am VERY ready.

Just an update everyone, I just took the DAT on oct 29th, here are my scores...
TS - 22 (98.3%)AA - 21 (97.2%)[/B]
I did not end up applying this past summer, so I am gonna wait for next cycle.
Wise decision. Try some shadowing.
 
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works, 25 is way too many, especially with a 3.8 science gpa!! and 20+ on your dat! i would say 10-12. and if you want to make your app stronger, maybe do some more shadowing of dentists/different specialties. i don't know how much you've done already. good luck!
 
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Oh I guess I didn't mention this,

But I've been doing alot of shadowing with my sister since 2006ish (she = DDS) and I've also been volunteering at our local hospital for over a year now, just to get a grasp of what medicine is all about. At one point I couldn't decide between medicine and dentistry becuase I shadowed both fields and enjoyed them alot. But after volunteering in the hospital (as a care giver volunteer) I watched alot about how doctors and patients interact and it turned me off from medicine for good.

As for how many schools to apply to, umm, 25 is going to be costly, but cost is not an issue, I've saved ALOT of money from working as an engineer and I am single, so I am planning to blow alot of cash just to get in.

The only thing I am worried about is, when I did most of my post-bacc, I was working fulltime, so I never took a full load semester, I duno how much that is going to hurt me, but we'll see

That idea about open houses sounds really nice, in michigan we have mercy and U of Michigan, I'll defenetly get in touch with them.

I might take a full load semester this spring (16 credits) just to show them I can handle a full semester and still obtain good grades, other than that... I dunno what to do lol
 
Oh I guess I didn't mention this,

But I've been doing alot of shadowing with my sister since 2006ish (she = DDS) and I've also been volunteering at our local hospital for over a year now, just to get a grasp of what medicine is all about. At one point I couldn't decide between medicine and dentistry becuase I shadowed both fields and enjoyed them alot. But after volunteering in the hospital (as a care giver volunteer) I watched alot about how doctors and patients interact and it turned me off from medicine for good.

As for how many schools to apply to, umm, 25 is going to be costly, but cost is not an issue, I've saved ALOT of money from working as an engineer and I am single, so I am planning to blow alot of cash just to get in.

The only thing I am worried about is, when I did most of my post-bacc, I was working fulltime, so I never took a full load semester, I duno how much that is going to hurt me, but we'll see

That idea about open houses sounds really nice, in michigan we have mercy and U of Michigan, I'll defenetly get in touch with them.

I might take a full load semester this spring (16 credits) just to show them I can handle a full semester and still obtain good grades, other than that... I dunno what to do lol

keep a couple of things in mind:
1) you're going to need LORs. schools are going to expect to see a letter from a dentist that you've shadowed, and i'm not sure that one from your sister specifically is going to be acceptable.

2) you're prepared to blow a lot of cash to get in, but at least be smart about it. think of how much d-school itself is going to cost you. i guess if you want to, go ahead, but also think about the potential number of pre-dec.1 interviews you might get with a 3.8 science and a 22 dat granted you apply early, and then think of the cost associated with buying airline tickets and hotel stays for all of them. maybe do some research on some of the schools before you apply to half of the country's dental schools... but you also have plenty of time to think about this before next june.
 
well here is what I thought, out of the 25 schools, obviously not all of them are going to invite me for an interview, lets say 15 will.

I underestand what your saying about cost, but do you know what it means for me to apply to 10 to 12 schools and actually NOT get in? I am 28 today, will be 29 when I apply and earliest I can start dental school is 30. To some that may not sound old, but to me personally, I think thats VERY old and I don't wanna take a chance of maybe not getting in this coming cycle, do you see what I mean? So I believe I am doing the right thing about spending up to $20,000 just to get in becuase I don't wanna wait another year.

As far as LORs from dentist go, yeh I've heard the same thing before, they don't like to see LORs from family members, so I'll just have to spend some time these days to get to know a dentist, like you said, I have plenty of time till June, I'm sure I'll get something
 
well here is what I thought, out of the 25 schools, obviously not all of them are going to invite me for an interview, lets say 15 will.

I underestand what your saying about cost, but do you know what it means for me to apply to 10 to 12 schools and actually NOT get in? I am 28 today, will be 29 when I apply and earliest I can start dental school is 30. To some that may not sound old, but to me personally, I think thats VERY old and I don't wanna take a chance of maybe not getting in this coming cycle, do you see what I mean? So I believe I am doing the right thing about spending up to $20,000 just to get in becuase I don't wanna wait another year.

As far as LORs from dentist go, yeh I've heard the same thing before, they don't like to see LORs from family members, so I'll just have to spend some time these days to get to know a dentist, like you said, I have plenty of time till June, I'm sure I'll get something

better safe than sorry, right? :thumbup: The only pain in the ass will be remembering all the schools you applied to if an interviewer asks you that question :laugh:
 
You need to write down your 25 schools and do some serious research on them. There are many schools out there that look for a specific student mold that you may just not fit, so you would be wasting your money. Don't just look at the schools incoming class stats and think yours are above so you will get an interview. You mentioned that if you applied to 25 schools you may get 15 interviews.... If you have such confidence why the hell would you apply to 25.

What schools do you have in mind? Maybe we can help you narrow your list down
 
Well you DEF have that great upper trend in your grades!!!!! That's always a plus for an applicant. Like futuredent said, do some research on the schools before you apply. Schools with lower stats USUALLY are unique in their own ways because they're selective on what type of applicants they want. Like I wouldn't apply to 2 schools again if I have to apply again for the 3rd time. Ok knock on wood, let's hope that won't happen.
 
You mentioned that if you applied to 25 schools you may get 15 interviews.... If you have such confidence why the hell would you apply to 25.

Because 15 interviews doesn't grant me a guarantee to an acceptance, but I know your chances of getting an acceptance are higher if you have more interviews, hence the 25 schools. Besides, that 15 was a number I made up from thin air, I was simply trying to make the point that not all 25 schools will invite me....

As far as researching schools, Im gonna spend the next week or so going over EVERY single school website and contacting them. Obviously I'll only look at schools that accept out of state students. I'll post back a list of schools within a week or so, let the good times roll
 
Hello folks, been visiting this site for a few months now and finally decided to post all my questions and concerns in 1 post.

My name is Jessica, and I guess people around here would refer to me as a non-traditional applicant. A little story about me, I have been working as a software programmer for almost 4 years now; title: senior software engineer. And almost 3 years ago, I started attending MSU to complete my pre-dent requirements (as a post-bacc student).

So far, in my past 3 years, I have taken 49 credits, with a straight 4.0, classes include my 100, 200, 300 and 400 level biologies and chemistries (General biologies, general chemistries, Organics, human anatomy, genetics, biochemistry I, pharmacology, microbiology, sociology, and I think thats all off the top of my head)

However, When I combine these 48 credits with my old initial undergrad degree (Computer Science major), it totals out to about a 3.28 (or around there). And the reason is, my initial undergrad degree was from 140 credits with a 3.0 GPA. However, my science, right now, I believe it be much higher, more like a 3.8 (maybe even more)

So my current numbers are:
GPA (overall) : 3.28
Science GPA (overall) : 3.8+
Post-bacc : 4.0 (48 credits)

So the questions I have so far are:

1) majority of the dental schools I look at, have higher GPAs (between 3.4 and 3.6), how bad in your opinions does this make me look?

2) The beast: DAT, I have been working on the kaplan blue book 2009-2010 edition, mostly focusing on the Biology part cause I think thats the most broad section of the DAT. When I took the practice test as the end of the book (just for the biology section), I felt it was kinda easy, I scored 36 out of the possible 40, which I think according to thier score is like a 21, In your opinions, is the actual biology DAT similar or harder than this practice test?

3) I bought the newest version of the destroyer (one with 350 biology questions), and I have worked through most of them, I average about 7 correct out of every 10, which is wayyyy lower than what I scored on the Kaplan blue book biology, it is kinda frustrating to me, so what I want to know is, how similar is the actual Biology on the DAT to the destroyer DAT..... I have used the search function of this site regarding this very question, and I always read mixed thoughts, some say its "way off" some say "its very good". But thats kinda confusing to me because I think of the destroyer as a study tool rather than a test simulator.

4) When I read the latest barrons DAT book, they say that 53% of applicants to dental schools get to matriculate at some school each cycle, this number seems a little too high for me, is this true?

well, I don't wanna make this any longer lol, I really appreciate you guys providing me with answers to the above questions.... also, if you have any comments / suggestions (harsh or nice) to make, please feel free to speak your mind

P.S I have not applied yet, and I "might" wait till next cycle since I haven't taken the DAT yet, and won't plan on it till I am VERY ready.

hey, with your science GPA and your DAT along with your applying early next year, you will sure get in to at least one school. I am sure:D.

Applying to schools that 1/ within your reach,2/ do not apply to school that accept low % out of state.

READ THIS:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=635046

Gluck, i am sure you do just fine, believe in yourself
 
While your arguments are valid and you do not want to loose another year applying to 25 schools is unnessessary.
buy ADEA book and research your schools. Some schools will have different pre req while you do not have to have them before applying you will have to take them before matriculating, ie anatomy and physiology for MWU and IU etc
Some schools tend to value numbers mostly and pretty straightforward in their application process- got numbers- got invite- put into spreadsheet- your points above certain level=you are send acceptance letter.
Some schools have more convoluted process and will put a great deal of points into your PC, EC, LOE and interview... some of them will REALLY want to know "Why XYZ" and they are top of your choice otherwise your chances will be low, those schools will benefit from going there for open house, establishing and showing direct interest in that particular school...
Some schools will only accept regionally so while on paper they take decent amount of OOS in reality you will never have a chance with them.
Do your research before applying to 25 schools.
 
i personally agree with you applying to 25 schools.
first year i applied, i applied to 3 in-state and 4 out-of-states. i got 2 in-state interviews and 0 out-of-state interviews and didn't get in my first try.
this year, i applied to same 3 in-state and 15 out-of-states. i got 0 in-state interview so far but 5 out-of-state interviews. In May, I wasn't even going to apply to any of out-of-states because I didn't get any interviews from out-of-state schools last year but I am so very glad that I spent about 2,000 dollars to have my 5 interviews.
Point im trying to make is nothing is guaranteed and you never know what is going to happen. If you have saved up money from working, I think you deserve to have assurance of getting in by applying to 25 schools. Not being accepted in 1st try is going to cost way more than application costs. I do believe you'll get in with probably 10-15 schools but you worked hard to save up your money, do very well on post-bach and DAT, I think you deserve to feel comfortable that you'll be starting dental school next year by applying to 25 schools. just make sure you pick right schools even with 25 choices (this year's interviews were all from schools i didn't apply to last year. it's very important that you do your research)
 
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