Zoo Med Journey

[BigCatBound]

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Hi Everyone! I am currently a second year student and have always wanted to go into zoo med, and still plan on following that path. I have been working on finding externships that I can do without being in my fourth year, and making sure my grades are as high as possible to stay competitive for future internships/residencies. I do have a few questions hopefully people can weigh in on:
- I have an MS in Veterinary Biomedical Sciences already but am contemplating another masters to stand out. My school offers a dual MPH degree, but I was advised to only go through that program if I had a public health interest as it is becoming more common and won't make much difference later down the road. However, I have also been looking into an MSL in Animal Law, which I am very interested in and is a relatively new option. Are either of these worth the time and money to have another degree to help me stand out? I need to decide asap as applications would be due soon and starting after this year isn't really an option with the changes to student loans.
- Would it be beneficial to directly reach out to programs that I am interested in applying to future residencies with to see if these degrees would hold any weight in that decision? Also as I am finding it slightly difficult to find programs to extern with before my 4th year, would it be beneficial to also ask zoos directly if they take students or looking in different avenues for opportunities?
- Also looking for any mentors that are currently on this path because I have had many experiences but unfortunately they have all been shorter so it's been hard to get very close to a DVM that is where I hope to be in the future. SO if anyone is looking for a baby vet student to help out and mentor I am in desperate need of some guidance 🙂

 

[JaynaAli]

@WildZoo @pp9

Hopefully our zoo folks can chime in with advice.

With the disclaimer that I am a boarded specialist, but not in zoo med…to me, if you already have one masters, another isn’t going to help you that much and I would focus on creating relationships with people in the field (go to conferences, find those externships, visit places), because who you know and who is supporting you is very, very important.

And I would probably keep your coursework focus on excelling in your regular classes rather than running the risk of spreading yourself too thin and then having grades that are lower than they could have been if you’d dedicated more time to them. Residency is not unlike vet schools admissions in regards to GPA and extra coursework…GPA isn’t the end all be all, but having a high GPA certainly makes things easier and opens more doors.

 

[supershorty]

With the disclaimer that I am a boarded specialist, but not in zoo med…to me, if you already have one masters, another isn’t going to help you that much and I would focus on creating relationships with people in the field (go to conferences, find those externships, visit places), because who you know and who is supporting you is very, very important.

I'm neither a boarded specialist (yet) nor a zoo med person, but as Dubz is one of my best friends, I tangentially know a tiny bit about zoo med from watching her journey, and I just want to reiterate how important this is.

My understanding is that getting externships set up at some of the bigger zoos is something you need to be doing around NOW for your 4th year, and those relationships you build are critically important. I agree with Jayna that I don't think another master's degree is going to benefit you - what would benefit you more would be getting involved in research in zoo/wildlife and publishing. Dubz and pp9 took pretty different paths to getting to how they got where they are, so hopefully they are both able to chime in here. If not, @BigCatBound, you'll be able to find some pretty recent and relevant threads with the search function 🙂

The journey to becoming a zoo vet is very difficult and I wish you the best of luck!! It takes a lot of drive and passion to stick with it!

 

[pp9]

Hi Everyone! I am currently a second year student and have always wanted to go into zoo med, and still plan on following that path. I have been working on finding externships that I can do without being in my fourth year, and making sure my grades are as high as possible to stay competitive for future internships/residencies. I do have a few questions hopefully people can weigh in on:
- I have an MS in Veterinary Biomedical Sciences already but am contemplating another masters to stand out. My school offers a dual MPH degree, but I was advised to only go through that program if I had a public health interest as it is becoming more common and won't make much difference later down the road. However, I have also been looking into an MSL in Animal Law, which I am very interested in and is a relatively new option. Are either of these worth the time and money to have another degree to help me stand out? I need to decide asap as applications would be due soon and starting after this year isn't really an option with the changes to student loans.
- Would it be beneficial to directly reach out to programs that I am interested in applying to future residencies with to see if these degrees would hold any weight in that decision? Also as I am finding it slightly difficult to find programs to extern with before my 4th year, would it be beneficial to also ask zoos directly if they take students or looking in different avenues for opportunities?
- Also looking for any mentors that are currently on this path because I have had many experiences but unfortunately they have all been shorter so it's been hard to get very close to a DVM that is where I hope to be in the future. SO if anyone is looking for a baby vet student to help out and mentor I am in desperate need of some guidance 🙂

For background, I did not take the academic route to zoo med. I did a rotating, worked ECC for ~3 years, did a zoo internship, and am now a full time zoo vet. No residency, didn't even apply, realized by the end of vet school that I didn't actually want to do one.

-I don't see the point in you getting another master's degree. It won't make you stand out imo. There are some residencies that make you do a master's concurrently, but that doesn't mean it sets you up for success in the field specifically (those schools make all of their residents get master's as far as I know). Honestly it would probably be a time/money suck that won't have a huge payoff. Far more important to maintain the highest GPA possible +/- get published early on (specifically for residency goals).

-You won't get much communication from future residencies at this stage but yeah having a master's won't sway the needle much. Having publications before you apply for residencies absolutely can, which could come along with a master's (or PhD), but you don't need the extra degree to get published.

-As for externships, there are so many across the country so I'm not sure where you are having trouble (said with kindness!). Are you familiar with the AAZV website (if you're not, you should head there now and start poking around)? There is an education section that compiles all of the externships, although it is often out of date. I would start applying for externships by the middle to end of your second year, zoos book up fast and early applications get you the most scheduling flexibility. Most zoos will have an externship program. Do as many as you can in a variety of places...in my experience, many people drift out of zoo med after their externships because what pre-vets/vet students think our day-to-day is like is typically very far from accurate.

Edit: Consider externing at 1-2+ places that have a zoo med internship or residency. While I don't think you should rule out zoos that don't, being stellar during an externship can potentially help you in the future (it's how I got my zoo med internship).​

Second edit: You'll be hard pressed to find an externship that will take you before you're a fourth year. You might be better off looking into summer research programs, courses, etc (again, check out the education section on the AAZV website).​

-I am happy to offer guidance, sure. You will definitely hear two opinions from WildZoo and I, and I would not be surprised if we tell you two things that conflict. Like said above, we took very different paths! I think the most important thing to remember is that the path to zoo med is not one-size-fits-all, and flexibility is really important. Specifically for residencies if you decide you are hardcore wanting to do one. At this time the majority of people interested in zoo med either don't end up doing a residency for many reasons, or never get one and have to find another way (match rate is usually <10% every year). Also worth thinking long and hard if a residency is even the right way to go for you, which is another can of worms to open. Clinical zoo med and academic zoo med are very different worlds, although residents usually still end up in clinical zoo med at the end of their residencies anyways. I think most people get laser-focused on getting a residency early on, because so many students are only hearing from zoo-med residents during vet school who tell you it's the 'only way to go.' But I'm here to tell you that it's not 🙂

 

[battie]

However, I have also been looking into an MSL in Animal Law, which I am very interested in and is a relatively new option.

As an aside about this masters in particular:

This honestly sounds like one of those masters that exists to give students something to do and get the school money. There is not likely to be a lot of actual utility to it as animal law is rather shallow in general and predominantly specific to each state and even each county to each state.

 

[KCgophervet]

As an aside about this masters in particular:

This honestly sounds like one of those masters that exists to give students something to do and get the school money. There is not likely to be a lot of actual utility to it as animal law is rather shallow in general and predominantly specific to each state and even each county to each state.

Hi Everyone! I am currently a second year student and have always wanted to go into zoo med, and still plan on following that path. I have been working on finding externships that I can do without being in my fourth year, and making sure my grades are as high as possible to stay competitive for future internships/residencies. I do have a few questions hopefully people can weigh in on:
- I have an MS in Veterinary Biomedical Sciences already but am contemplating another masters to stand out. My school offers a dual MPH degree, but I was advised to only go through that program if I had a public health interest as it is becoming more common and won't make much difference later down the road. However, I have also been looking into an MSL in Animal Law, which I am very interested in and is a relatively new option. Are either of these worth the time and money to have another degree to help me stand out? I need to decide asap as applications would be due soon and starting after this year isn't really an option with the changes to student loans.
- Would it be beneficial to directly reach out to programs that I am interested in applying to future residencies with to see if these degrees would hold any weight in that decision? Also as I am finding it slightly difficult to find programs to extern with before my 4th year, would it be beneficial to also ask zoos directly if they take students or looking in different avenues for opportunities?
- Also looking for any mentors that are currently on this path because I have had many experiences but unfortunately they have all been shorter so it's been hard to get very close to a DVM that is where I hope to be in the future. SO if anyone is looking for a baby vet student to help out and mentor I am in desperate need of some guidance 🙂

Jumping in on this aspect, from the lab animal medicine field we have been hearing more about animal law programs popping up that are distinctly animal rights origin in nature (not animal welfare, but animal rights focused). Not saying that is what this program is, but something to be wary of (animal rights organizations are generally very anti-zoo, anti-animal use for anything).

 

[BigCatBound]

For background, I did not take the academic route to zoo med. I did a rotating, worked ECC for ~3 years, did a zoo internship, and am now a full time zoo vet. No residency, didn't even apply, realized by the end of vet school that I didn't actually want to do one.

-I don't see the point in you getting another master's degree. It won't make you stand out imo. There are some residencies that make you do a master's concurrently, but that doesn't mean it sets you up for success in the field specifically (those schools make all of their residents get master's as far as I know). Honestly it would probably be a time/money suck that won't have a huge payoff. Far more important to maintain the highest GPA possible +/- get published early on (specifically for residency goals).

-You won't get much communication from future residencies at this stage but yeah having a master's won't sway the needle much. Having publications before you apply for residencies absolutely can, which could come along with a master's (or PhD), but you don't need the extra degree to get published.

-As for externships, there are so many across the country so I'm not sure where you are having trouble (said with kindness!). Are you familiar with the AAZV website (if you're not, you should head there now and start poking around)? There is an education section that compiles all of the externships, although it is often out of date. I would start applying for externships by the middle to end of your second year, zoos book up fast and early applications get you the most scheduling flexibility. Most zoos will have an externship program. Do as many as you can in a variety of places...in my experience, many people drift out of zoo med after their externships because what pre-vets/vet students think our day-to-day is like is typically very far from accurate.

Edit: Consider externing at 1-2+ places that have a zoo med internship or residency. While I don't think you should rule out zoos that don't, being stellar during an externship can potentially help you in the future (it's how I got my zoo med internship).​

Second edit: You'll be hard pressed to find an externship that will take you before you're a fourth year. You might be better off looking into summer research programs, courses, etc (again, check out the education section on the AAZV website).​

-I am happy to offer guidance, sure. You will definitely hear two opinions from WildZoo and I, and I would not be surprised if we tell you two things that conflict. Like said above, we took very different paths! I think the most important thing to remember is that the path to zoo med is not one-size-fits-all, and flexibility is really important. Specifically for residencies if you decide you are hardcore wanting to do one. At this time the majority of people interested in zoo med either don't end up doing a residency for many reasons, or never get one and have to find another way (match rate is usually <10% every year). Also worth thinking long and hard if a residency is even the right way to go for you, which is another can of worms to open. Clinical zoo med and academic zoo med are very different worlds, although residents usually still end up in clinical zoo med at the end of their residencies anyways. I think most people get laser-focused on getting a residency early on, because so many students are only hearing from zoo-med residents during vet school who tell you it's the 'only way to go.' But I'm here to tell you that it's not 🙂

Thank you for the input about the masters programs, I figured that was the case so glad to be pointed in the right direction!
Also in regard to externships- I have looked through those resources and I am not having trouble finding options for my clinical year more so opportunities to get involved in now, so it's been frustrating because our mentors/professors are emphasizing the importance of finding externships to complete before clinical year but there are almost none in the zoo med field for students outside of 4th year! In that same vein though- we have do not have our meetings with advisors about clinical year scheduling until next fall (my clinical year will start May 2027). I do already have our dates for each block, so should I be reaching out to programs now to schedule on my own or wait until further guidance from my program. For reference I go to LMU so we use a distributive model for clinical year.

 

[JaynaAli]

Advice to the masses of students that will end up in GP or internships may not necessarily apply to a niche group like zoo med, especially one as competitive as zoo med is. Does your school have some sort of wildlife clinic or on-site clinics you could shadow at? Just because most zoos are busy enough they limit participation to clinical year students doesn’t mean there aren’t other opportunities in exotics medicine.

I think a lot of students go ahead and start scheduling things at competitive rotations before their schools officially allow it; you just hope things work out and schedules can be made to fit. And if you and the school can’t make it work out, then you cancel what you’d arranged and the facility can fill the spot with someone else. I’ve been out of school for a long time now but I remember even back then (before so many distributive schools added to needed rotations too), zoo med rotations were the exceptions to rules because if classmates didn’t have things set up way way before hand, there was nothing available by the time we were officially “allowed” to set up rotations. So I’d talk to other recent students and zoo specific folks at your school, get a rough idea of what timelines you’re talking about, and start figuring things out if your school allows that at all.

 

[pp9]

Thank you for the input about the masters programs, I figured that was the case so glad to be pointed in the right direction!
Also in regard to externships- I have looked through those resources and I am not having trouble finding options for my clinical year more so opportunities to get involved in now, so it's been frustrating because our mentors/professors are emphasizing the importance of finding externships to complete before clinical year but there are almost none in the zoo med field for students outside of 4th year! In that same vein though- we have do not have our meetings with advisors about clinical year scheduling until next fall (my clinical year will start May 2027). I do already have our dates for each block, so should I be reaching out to programs now to schedule on my own or wait until further guidance from my program. For reference I go to LMU so we use a distributive model for clinical year.

You should be scheduling things ASAP, but verify with your school how they handle pre-scheduled externships too. Typically you get your zoo stuff scheduled and then tell your school, and they will have to base your schedule around that, but idk what LMU does. Zoos aren't the only externships that can book out in advance so your school should be able to figure this out. For example, my clinical year was March 2018-May 2019 and I am fairly certain I had all of my externships booked by spring/summer 2017? And I did have to swap one preferred externship for another because I wasn't available during the times they had openings, and that was with starting my app process by early 2017/late 2016.

I did do a pre-clinical year externship at Georgia Aquarium, I don't know if they routinely take pre-clinical year students but you might try checking them out. Otherwise I'm not sure why you're being told that, we want externs that don't need to be taught the basics (aka not a 1st-3rd year). That's why you aren't finding anything.

Edit: Again there are multiple pre-clinical opportunities that aren't externships that you could look into!​

 

[WildZoo]

Hi Everyone! I am currently a second year student and have always wanted to go into zoo med, and still plan on following that path. I have been working on finding externships that I can do without being in my fourth year, and making sure my grades are as high as possible to stay competitive for future internships/residencies. I do have a few questions hopefully people can weigh in on:
- I have an MS in Veterinary Biomedical Sciences already but am contemplating another masters to stand out. My school offers a dual MPH degree, but I was advised to only go through that program if I had a public health interest as it is becoming more common and won't make much difference later down the road. However, I have also been looking into an MSL in Animal Law, which I am very interested in and is a relatively new option. Are either of these worth the time and money to have another degree to help me stand out? I need to decide asap as applications would be due soon and starting after this year isn't really an option with the changes to student loans.
- Would it be beneficial to directly reach out to programs that I am interested in applying to future residencies with to see if these degrees would hold any weight in that decision? Also as I am finding it slightly difficult to find programs to extern with before my 4th year, would it be beneficial to also ask zoos directly if they take students or looking in different avenues for opportunities?
- Also looking for any mentors that are currently on this path because I have had many experiences but unfortunately they have all been shorter so it's been hard to get very close to a DVM that is where I hope to be in the future. SO if anyone is looking for a baby vet student to help out and mentor I am in desperate need of some guidance 🙂

You've gotten some excellent advice here already so I'm probably going to end up reiterating some things. I can give you some more info on residency path specifically, but I did not even take the most typical/straightforward path to get here myself - I did a dual DVM/PhD, worked as a part time associate in small animal GP for 3 years during my PhD, did an academic specialty exotics/zoo internship, and now am in a...well technically academic but also kind of not academic residency. My residentmates also had winding paths so there definitely is not a specific formula to follow! And I have many friends and acquaintances who either did or are doing experiential path, and am not someone who sees residency as anything superior or anything like that. I went this route because it was one that made sense for me, with my specific background and goals, and because I was lucky enough to get a spot.

But that's all future stuff! Whether you want to do a residency or not, experience in the field, networking, and getting involved in research can only help you, and I would put your efforts (and money...) towards those things rather than an MS, especially one that is so specific. I'd also echo what pp9 said about experiences - I was able to do a bit of pre-clinical shadowing at institutions I already had relationships with, and where I am at now we take pre-clinical students from the local vet school, but those are like...one off days, not full rotations or anything like that. Most places in my experience end up being pretty booked up with their clinical students and prefer not to take on more than 1 at a time if they can avoid it. My school was one with a busy exotics service and that also provided care for the local zoo and a couple other smaller institutions, so I was able to get some more preclinical experience that way, but that's obviously more difficult in your situation. If you contact places I would ask about shadowing opportunities, not necessarily externships, or again look at the AAZV website for other options.

As far as scheduling 4th year externships, I also had mine scheduled pretty far in advance, and at my current institution they usually have people scheduled about 1.5-2 years ahead of time. I would definitely ask your school how they handle that kind of scheduling. I built my entire clinical year schedule around my externships and conferences.

Attending conferences is a good idea if you can swing it, but the AAZV conference is expensive and not the most accessible for students, so unless you're presenting I wouldn't push for that one in particular. If you're at all interested in the wildllife side of things, this is my shameless plug for the Wildlife Disease Association which is smaller, less expensive, and very committed to supporting students and early career professionals. There is a good mix of zoo vets, wildlife vets, wildlife biologists, etc etc and it is just a great community to be a part of.

I don't know what research opportunities are available at LMU but would encourage you to look into those as well. It doesn't necessarily have to be zoo related, though of course that helps because it would allow you to submit abstracts to related conferences and potentially work towards your publication requirements for boards, if that's something you're interested in.

Happy to expand on/answer questions about anything else!

 

[pp9]

OP, with you being at LMU, you should connect with Dr. Helmer if you can. He is an exotics guy, not zoo, but he will be a good resource. He's seen several of his previous interns (myself included) off to the world of zoo med.

 

[BigCatBound]

Thank you everyone for the advice!! If you had to choose between a summer research project that ended in publication or multiple externships/shadowing which would be better? Not all of the externships are zoo, some are mixed animal that still have open spaces for the summer and most of the zoos I've spoken to would allow shadowing without a structured externship. So just trying to plan for which would be the best way to spend this upcoming summer if I can only do both!

 

[pp9]

Thank you everyone for the advice!! If you had to choose between a summer research project that ended in publication or multiple externships/shadowing which would be better? Not all of the externships are zoo, some are mixed animal that still have open spaces for the summer and most of the zoos I've spoken to would allow shadowing without a structured externship. So just trying to plan for which would be the best way to spend this upcoming summer if I can only do both!

Would depend on the research project. There are summer research programs that can put you with a zoo clinician so that is like two birds with one stone (check Michigan State's summer program, it's not limited to MSU students). Personally I would go for the publication if it was zoo/exotics/wildlife in nature. Not that non-zoo publications/experiences are not valuable, but if you are dead set on zoo that really needs to be your focus. I don't often suggest people put blinders on since there are so many things to experience and learn about (that also might interest you!), but the path to zoo med requires long-haul dedication and sometimes careful planning these days.