Must doctors be liberal?

[Trismegistus4]

I've had a few experiences on the interview trail that have me somewhat worried about my future in medicine. Current applicants and medical students seem to be overwhelmingly liberal, and some faculty, including interviewers, have expressed left-wing views. As I'm sure some of you know, one school, which we'll disguise with the name "Stenn Pate", even sends in a dean to harangue the group of interviewees about how "shameful" it is that our nation which pretends to be the protector of the world and has the most advanced health care doesn't consider health care a right, that 40 million citizens don't have health insurance, etc. If people like that are the gatekeepers of the profession, I'm worried I may not get in anywhere, because I'm sure they'd consider me to be part of the problem, the white good old boy network that's more concerned with doctors continuing to make a good income than with casting down the mighty from their thrones and lifting up the lowly. Even if I do get in, if the majority of my colleagues are only there because they're global social justice types who wanted to infiltrate the profession and undermine it from within, it would seem there won't be hope of a decent future.

Is there an underground contingent of conservatives among the next generation of doctors, who might continue to fight for the profession? Is the consensus among current doctors and/or medical schools that one must be a liberal in order to be a physician?

[THP]

Definitely not a problem, mostly a regional phenomenon. When I interviewed I mentioned that I shadowed at a clinic that served a lot of illegal aliens and the interviewer asked me about it. My response was I thought it was ridiculous that they got such fantastic care for free whereas if I were to try to get some free care, I would be hunted down and have my car impounded and lein put on my house. My interviewer agreed with me and I've generally encountered more conservative than liberal physicians (i'm almost done with 3rd year). I am at a big academic institution, however it is in the south.

[resxn]

On the contrary, the majority of physicians in the US are conservative, at least by registration and voting habits.

One reason why would be to just look at the recent State of the Union address when Pres Bush said that tort reform needed to be passed. The Republican contingent nearly tripped over themselves during the resulting standing ovation whereas the Democrats tried to burn holes through his heart with their eyes.

There are numerous liberals in medicine, no doubt. However, there is a slant for them to be more prominent on the coasts and at liberal universities like the one you mentioned. Pretty much follows the red v blue states you see on the map.

Don't be discouraged, you will not find yourself alone. You especially won't be alone if you go to a less liberally bent school. I'd avoid New England for that reason--it's where I went and there were definitely more liberals there than where I'm now in the central time zone.

[ForbiddenComma]

One issue that will make every doctor seem like a right-wing extremist, is the issue of trial lawyers and malpractice. And the issue of Big Pharm and for-profit hospital chains can make even the most stolid conservative of a physician start ranting like Noam Chomsky. So... I'd say it depends on the issue.

[Miami_med]

Academic Physicians are more liberal than community physicians as a generality. Also, medical students are far more liberal than physicians. There is something about 80 hour weeks with minimal reimbursement tends to change some minds about unlimited self-sacrifice to humanity. Half of your liberal classmates won't be by the time they start practicing.

[docB]

No. Not all doctors have to be liberals. However, CMS regualtions only allow 1 conservative doc per time zone and we already have one in the Pacific. (BTW it's not me. I'm a reactionary.) There may be room for more soon as Hillobama have sworn to track down and "cleanse" all conservatives from the field... well, and the country in general.

[CatsandCradles]

Originally Posted by Trismegistus4

I've had a few experiences on the interview trail that have me somewhat worried about my future in medicine.

Allright I'm still reading...

Current applicants and medical students seem to be overwhelmingly liberal, and some faculty, including interviewers, have expressed left-wing views. As I'm sure some of you know, one school, which we'll disguise with the name "Stenn Pate", even sends in a dean to harangue the group of interviewees about how "shameful" it is that our nation which pretends to be the protector of the world and has the most advanced health care doesn't consider health care a right, that 40 million citizens don't have health insurance, etc.

I guess you are a well to do person then. I am also someone who is well to do financially and social economically. But how about you or I sit down and talking to some of these 40 million people.

I'm not sure we'd get a friendly response from the majority of those people. Let's be honest, if I were one of those 40 million (acutually 46) people who make just above the income bracket to not qualify for Medicaid, but not enough to get that juicy PPO low ductible plan by Blue Cross & Blue Shield - I'd be fairly critical of healthcare providers who were cherry picking the folks with juicy insurance.

So I guess the dean of Penn State was just trying to score some propaganda points. I'm sure his medical school program likes to work with juicy insurance programs too.

If people like that are the gatekeepers of the profession, I'm worried I may not get in anywhere, because I'm sure they'd consider me to be part of the problem, the white good old boy network that's more concerned with doctors continuing to make a good income than with casting down the mighty from their thrones and lifting up the lowly.

Well, I am not white, and I maybe mistakening you for another poster...but it is interesting how in the Social-Political forum you were arguing all for Chrisitianity and how it was so good for America and that America was a Christian country.

My question is, how can you look down on someone advocating for the poor and then call yourself a Christian. I am going to assume that you are of the Protestant tradition where one is "Saved by faith and not by works"

Well, I too am also from a Protestant tradition, but to suggest that we ought to dimiss the plight of those without access without adquate insurance or do not qualify for Medicaid runs contrary to many other important themes we see in Scripture.

Even if I do get in, if the majority of my colleagues are only there because they're global social justice types who wanted to infiltrate the profession and undermine it from within, it would seem there won't be hope of a decent future.

Hey I'd love to have a big pay check too. About $280,000 sounds good for me. But there ain't nothing wrong advocating for social justice too. I remember the quote of an American missionary in Guatemala who said "I feed the poor and they call me a saint. But when I ask why there are poor people they call me a communist"

She later got killed by the way.

I mean, show me how social justice is a bad thing cause those students you interviewed with were "infilatrating the proffesion and undermine it from within, it would seem there won't be hope of a decent future?"

Face it, doctors will always be rich. If you cannot afford the BMW Z9 Cabriolet, then I'm afraid you'll just have to settle for a BMW 335i series Decopue.

So really, show me why social justice is a bad thing, and is "infilatrating" the medical profession to cause its down fall. The Canadian got acess to healthcare - it sure as hell comes with a long wait line, but at least they don't have 45 million people left in the loops.

Heck, Canada doesn't even have 45 million people!

And we see all these threads on SDN saying how Canada is a primitve and inferior socialist country because it of its health care policy. Well are the Japanese a socialist country as well? Let's ask Ford and GM if they think Japan is a socialist country.

Is there an underground contingent of conservatives among the next generation of doctors, who might continue to fight for the profession? Is the consensus among current doctors and/or medical schools that one must be a liberal in order to be a physician?

It makes perfect sense to protect your profession, just remember to ignore those 45 million people - cause if we get universal health care, well doctors won't be able to drive that BMW Z9 anymore.

We'll just have to settle for the poor man's car like those Lexus hybrids that gets like 60 MPG

Face, US doctors are rich. They make more than 99.00% of the world's population of 7 billion people. If you are a pre-med student and think doctors are too poor then obviously you need read more of Forbes magazine and Bussiness Weekly. I get the feeling you know nothing about investment stragtegies and market portfolios. Trust me, you can be a greedy capitalist money maker like me and also work in helping out those who don't have the items we take for granted.

Heck, if 15 years from now we get a universal healthcare plan and doctors make less money - I would bet that we'd still be richer than 98.00% of the world's population.

Now if that 1% drop makes you think, "social justice types who wanted to infiltrate this profession are going to destroy it" then you are certaintly not a Christian like you claimed yourself to be in the previous post in the Social Political forums - and lets us not forget about rich man in the parable of Lazarus.

Look, I'm just as capitalistic as you - however I'm willing to settle for a Lexus in place of BMW, if it means better health care for 45 million. I'm sure there's going to be problems, but at least there's something.

So go ahead and plot strategy with all your conservative friends so you can get that BWM Z9 Cabriolet one day. Cause the Lord knows just how necessary those cars are. And doctors in rural area make bank too. At my school in WV the FPs average at about $160,000 a piece - that's below average now - but still puts them above 95% of the world's population.

One way or another, you will be rich.

[Thomasss]

Please continue to read SDN. If you still think that doctors are liberal, well, erm, umm hmmm, I'm not quite sure what profession you belong to.
As previously mentioned, it very much depends on the issue. But very few docs I've ever met seem to support universal healthcare, for example. Economically they seem pretty conservative.
As for socially, I'm not quite so sure on that one.

[resxn]

Originally Posted by CatsandCradles

Allright I'm still reading...

Blah blah blah blah . . .

[Blahs have been added in lieu of preserving room]

This would be an example of the liberal bent of those you saw in PA

[CatsandCradles]

Originally Posted by resxn

[Blahs have been added in lieu of preserving room]

This would be an example of the liberal bent of those you saw in PA

ok ok ok!

I give up! I surrender!

[dilated]

Originally Posted by CatsandCradles

Heck, if 15 years from now we get a universal healthcare plan and doctors make less money - I would bet that we'd still be richer than 98.00% of the world's population.

Yeah, like the surgeons in Germany who average 50k in USD (see NEJM - "Doctors on Strike") because with universal health care they have to take what the government wants to give them. I'm sure they're debating whether to buy the Lexus or the BMW. F that.

[docB]

Originally Posted by dilated

Yeah, like the surgeons in Germany who average 50k in USD (see NEJM - "Doctors on Strike") because with universal health care they have to take what the government wants to give them. I'm sure they're debating whether to buy the Lexus or the BMW. F that.

Good point. Duly noted. Please, PLEASE don't let this turn into yet another universal health care thread.

[dilated]

Originally Posted by docB

Good point. Duly noted. Please, PLEASE don't let this turn into yet another universal health care thread.

Fair enough. Point being, most private practice people I've met see that socialized medicine has meant somewhere between a moderate and gigantic drop in physician incomes and therefore are against it. Like most people would be if you told them their salary was going to be either cut in half or decreased by a factor of five.

[ForbiddenComma]

Surely there are other political issues than that...

Ok, here's one: Why are most med-students pro-choice? Is this affected one way or the other by the knowledge that they may learn how to do a D&C themselves one day?

And why are most docs anti-gun? Well ok, that one is probably obvious, especially for ER docs, although docB may prove me wrong

And then there are docs who express support for John Edwards. I'm a card-carrying liberal but I really don't understand that one at all.

[Miami_med]

Originally Posted by ForbiddenComma

And why are most docs anti-gun? Well ok, that one is probably obvious, especially for ER docs, although docB may prove me wrong

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but here all of the patients have guns. Half of our patients are in the country illegaly, so I don't think that they care if the guns are legal or not. Maybe we should take the Israeli airline approach to medicine and arm all of the doctors in the ED. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

[resxn]

Originally Posted by ForbiddenComma

Surely there are other political issues than that...

Ok, here's one: Why are most med-students pro-choice? Is this affected one way or the other by the knowledge that they may learn how to do a D&C themselves one day?

And why are most docs anti-gun? Well ok, that one is probably obvious, especially for ER docs, although docB may prove me wrong

And then there are docs who express support for John Edwards. I'm a card-carrying liberal but I really don't understand that one at all.

On one of these threads, someone pointed out the new "study" or poll rather that was published on all the online news sites about doctors using their beliefs to cloud their medical judgement.

In it they said that 52% of doctors oppose abortion. So if most med students indeed are pro-choice, something changes once they graduate.

[docB]

Originally Posted by ForbiddenComma

Surely there are other political issues than that...

Ok, here's one: Why are most med-students pro-choice? Is this affected one way or the other by the knowledge that they may learn how to do a D&C themselves one day?

And why are most docs anti-gun? Well ok, that one is probably obvious, especially for ER docs, although docB may prove me wrong

And then there are docs who express support for John Edwards. I'm a card-carrying liberal but I really don't understand that one at all.

Good ?s. I personally think that the political attitudes of med students and docs are a product of the life cycle of doctors. Docs tend to have be apolitical science types in high school. They get to college as political blank slates and the American secondary education system turns them into Trotskyites. This socialist bent continues until the reality of paying taxes and loans and dealing with the various unfunded mandates of medicine while maintaining full liability comes crashing down. As you know, a conservative is a liberal who got mugged.

[dilated]

Originally Posted by docB

Good ?s. I personally think that the political attitudes of med students and docs are a product of the life cycle of doctors. Docs tend to have be apolitical science types in high school. They get to college as political blank slates and the American secondary education system turns them into Trotskyites. This socialist bent continues until the reality of paying taxes and loans and dealing with the various unfunded mandates of medicine while maintaining full liability comes crashing down. As you know, a conservative is a liberal who got mugged.

I think this was probably more true in the past. These days part of the medical school shtick is recruiting more "nontrads" - older people, non-science majors, etc. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the biggest liberal activist in med school I know was a ... theater major as an undergrad. I don't think they're just awaiting some real world exposure before turning conservative, I think different people are going to medical school now (and causing entertaining expressions of horror and the sky is falling on attendings faces when they announce they'll be happy working 45 hours a week, thank you very much).

[docB]

That's certainly true about the non-trads. I was a conservative and a non trad though so I think that sort of evens out. There are still a healthy number of med students who have taken the SAT more times than they've voted and just can't understand raising the minimum wage wouldn't make everyone rich.