- Joined
- Nov 25, 2004
- Messages
- 329
- Reaction score
- 3
Hi all...anyone else applying?
Hi all...anyone else applying?
My knowledge of the vascular world is limited, but there are a couple of Wichita grads that trained at U. South Carolina- Greenville and had wonderful things to say about it. One of them is now faculty there. It would definitely be worth a look based on their endorsements.
I also have friends who have trained at Baylor and Mich State-Grand Rapids, and they also had good things to say.
anybody knows about the number of applicats this year? how is Hershey PennState vascular fellowship?
Anyone interested in starting a list of interview invitations? Might be helpful ...
hey guys, remember this blog from surgery interviews...
here's what i've gotten so far:
umich, upenn, stanford, ucsf, usc, loyola, u of C, pitt, maryland, Uw-madison, yale, emory, uva, rush, indiana, osu, wash u
still waiting to hear:
ucla, northwestern, u washington, georgetown, ny programs
definitely not going to all of these, the bulk of mine are march and april
curious as to what you think about these programs as the months progress
Thanks! To this list I can add:
Georgetown
NYU
Cleveland Clinic
hey guys, remember this blog from surgery interviews...
here's what i've gotten so far:
umich, upenn, stanford, ucsf, usc, loyola, u of C, pitt, maryland, Uw-madison, yale, emory, uva, rush, indiana, osu, wash u
still waiting to hear:
ucla, northwestern, u washington, georgetown, ny programs
definitely not going to all of these, the bulk of mine are march and april
curious as to what you think about these programs as the months progress
yea i'm kind of curious myself. From what I've heard from those around the block:
west: ucla/ucsf/stanford
midwest: wash u, michigan, northwestern
east: penn, pitt, UF (although have change in leadership), emory?
i guess that makes 10, not sure how accurate this is as it all comes from word of mouth...what have you guys heard?
What's the current status of Mayo's endovascular program? I've heard that some programs have swung the other direction and now don't have enough open cases. I imagine (assume?) Mayo doesn't have that problem.Many big-name places like Mayo have not had top-notch vascular training programs because they were behind the curve with the endovascular revolution. In Mayo's case, WAY behind. A weak endo experience can be the kiss of death for a Vascular Surgery training program. In contrast, some no-name places, like Southern Illinois U., suddenly became extremely popular based on the endovascular program.
What's the current status of Mayo's endovascular program? I've heard that some programs have swung the other direction and now don't have enough open cases. I imagine (assume?) Mayo doesn't have that problem.
That is a lot of tiers. The list has half of all the vascular programs in the country. Are they all pretty good, or all pretty bad? What is the list based on... academic rank, case load, endovascular complexity?
what I have heard:
1st tier: UCSF, Mass gen, Pitt, Brigham, Northwestern, Wash U, Dartmouth, UPenn, UCLA
1st-2nd tier: Emory, Wisconsin, Wake Forest, Michigan, Oregon, UTSW, UFlorida, Columbia-cornell
2nd tier: UVA, Henry Ford, Utah, Baylor Houston, methodist houston, Mayo rochester, Stanford, Indiana, Maryland, CClinic, UT Houston
2nd-3rd tier: Vandy, Tufts, UChicago, Loyola, Hopkins, Texas A&M, UCLA harbor, Yale, Georgetown, BIDMC, U Mass, UNC, Duke, Jeffreson, U wash, Mayo AZ, Geisenger
3rd tier: Eastern Virginia, Minnesota,U S. Florida, UArkansas, UArizona, U S. Carolina, Temple, Albany
4th tier: Rest of the programs
what do you think about these tiers? Accurate.
So are you a fourth year applying in surgery or applying for the vascular match? Because the strength of the vascular program is not always related to the general surgery program strength.These tiers seem a bit wonky. I would think Michigan would go on the first tier and Wake Forest seems to be the leader in vascular related stem cell research so I guess if someone was interested in that the tier wouldnt really matter. And in general I've found rankings to be extremely subjective and region dependent. In the end, in addition to the kind of experience one wants from vascular training (complicated endo, newest device trials vs bread and butter private practice stuff) I think its also important to look at where people at that institution end up going. I visited the Dartmouth program and thought it was a wonderful program, except is was extremely isolated. Looking at their list of fellow placements turns out a lot of people stay regionally. I don't plan on practicing in the NE area so going to Dartmouth wasn't worth the sacrifice if I could go somewhere else and get jobs in a region of my choice... I also think it matters how well connected the program is (e.g. how many current/former national society presidents).. that seems to mean A LOT when it comes time to find a job.
the strength of the vascular program is not always related to the general surgery program strength.
I wasn't questioning the veracity of what she was saying but rather trying to place it in a context. I was also confused as to what she meant by Dartmouth's fellowship placement. Is she referring to the fellowships their general surgery residents get or their vascular residents? I didn't know there were fellowships for vascular surgery graduates.She's applying for integrated vascular, so am I. We both have been to a lot of the top vascular programs in the country recently. She is correct in what she is saying in my opinion
These tiers seem a bit wonky. I would think Michigan would go on the first tier and Wake Forest seems to be the leader in vascular related stem cell research so I guess if someone was interested in that the tier wouldnt really matter. And in general I've found rankings to be extremely subjective and region dependent. In the end, in addition to the kind of experience one wants from vascular training (complicated endo, newest device trials vs bread and butter private practice stuff) I think its also important to look at where people at that institution end up going. I visited the Dartmouth program and thought it was a wonderful program, except is was extremely isolated. Looking at their list of fellow placements turns out a lot of people stay regionally. I don't plan on practicing in the NE area so going to Dartmouth wasn't worth the sacrifice if I could go somewhere else and get jobs in a region of my choice... I also think it matters how well connected the program is (e.g. how many current/former national society presidents).. that seems to mean A LOT when it comes time to find a job.
She's applying for integrated vascular, so am I. We both have been to a lot of the top vascular programs in the country recently. She is correct in what she is saying in my opinion
Yeesh. Our third year residents have done more than that. Which program is this? This is important for vascular applicants.A friend of mine in vascular mentioned that some 2nd-year fellows he met from the NE had done maybe 1 or 2 Fem-Pops, and 1 or 2 Open AAAs.
Getting this thread back on track:
Cornell/Columbia
Any others?
Yeah because discussing vascular programs is so irrelevant...Getting this thread back on track:
Cornell/Columbia
Any others?
I wasn't questioning the veracity of what she was saying but rather trying to place it in a context. I was also confused as to what she meant by Dartmouth's fellowship placement. Is she referring to the fellowships their general surgery residents get or their vascular residents? I didn't know there were fellowships for vascular surgery graduates.
I meant placement after vascular fellowship. No 5 year vascular program have a graduate yet so for interviews we med students get print outs on the vascular fellows track record... they may or may not be a good approximation of what the outcomes will be 0+5 trained vascular surgeons... but its all we have to go with for now.
Seconded.you mind sharing the case logs and job placements of programs you interviewed at - here or as a PM? thanks
you mind sharing the case logs and job placements of programs you interviewed at - here or as a PM? thanks
Sorry, I threw those all out once I certified my ROL. Maybe another vascular applicant can share them. In the end they weren't all that useful because it seemed, at least to me, that every place that had an 0+5 program had case volumes in the 60th-90th+ percentile, and I'm assuming that's the only way they got approved for a residency program in the first place. The only things that stuck out for me was that Wisconsin had extremely low CEAs (~20th percentile) and the New York programs did much more endo with a lot less open cases than anywhere else I had seen in the country. And the traditional open places (Michigan, Pitt) did 50/50 open, whereas other places were more 60/40 (endo/open). Other than that, most programs I visited had high* case volumes (i.e. ~1400 fellow cases in the 2 years, including diagnostic studies). Even Cleveland Clinic averaged somewhere ~1200-1400, which was surprising to me given all their volume, but I guess at a certain point volume doesn't matter because one person can only operate so much!
(*High is relative, as I don't know what low case volumes look like)
Here are the programs w/ 5 year residencies:
http://www.vascularweb.org/students...programs/Documents/Integrated_List_071610.pdf
(This list is excluding UW and USC, which were recently approved)
As for job placements... I'm kind of sketchy on those details too
Georgetown - almost 90% go into private practice
Yale - 50/50
Stanford - 50/50
Dartmouth - 70/30 (academic/private)
U.Mass I can't remember but their current 2nd year fellow is likely going to Cleveland Clinic
U.Pitt can't remember but their fellows are HIGHLY recruited for academic and private positions
And that's all I remember...Sorry!
As for job placements... I'm kind of sketchy on those details too
Georgetown - almost 90% go into private practice
Yale - 50/50
Stanford - 50/50
Dartmouth - 70/30 (academic/private)
U.Mass I can't remember but their current 2nd year fellow is likely going to Cleveland Clinic
U.Pitt can't remember but their fellows are HIGHLY recruited for academic and private positions
And that's all I remember...Sorry!
What? I've heard this about the gen surg residency, but if the FELLOWS don't do much, then that's pretty awful...thanks a lot...how was Cleveland Clinic fellow/integrated resident autonomy? From what we hear fellows dont do much. Agree?
Is that true at the fellowship level? My impression was that people are more honest after 5 years of residency. I know the opinion of only one fellowship director, and he says his goal is to train the best people regardless of whether they go into academics or not.Interesting breakdown. You know at all those "top academic" programs, EVERY applicant goes into the interviews saying, "yessir, Dr. PD, I know I want to academics. I'm DEFINITELY going to be an academic surgeon." Then they match and it's time for the job search, and they peace out.
Is that true at the fellowship level? My impression was that people are more honest after 5 years of residency. I know the opinion of only one fellowship director, and he says his goal is to train the best people regardless of whether they go into academics or not.
My followup question to that would be is whether they consider themselves to have failed if one of their graduates goes on to private practice. After all, they took someone who supposedly has been interested in academics after 3.5-4.5 whole years in residency to think about it, and after just 1 year of fellowship they go into practice instead...From my recent experience on the fellowship interview trail, there are some places where the program directors are very open about the fact that they are only interested in training academic surgeons, or "future leaders in the field" for the ones that were more subtle.
thanks a lot...how was Cleveland Clinic fellow/integrated resident autonomy? From what we hear fellows dont do much. Agree?
From my recent experience on the fellowship interview trail, there are some places where the program directors are very open about the fact that they are only interested in training academic surgeons, or "future leaders in the field" for the ones that were more subtle.