15 W grades, should I even bother?

[Fooferaw B]

Non-traditional indeed.

My story, and I'm sure some of you have heard at least part of it before:

My first CC experience was a pitiful mess. I have always been interested in both English and science, and at the time the former was my focus. My science/math grades were in the B-C range without even trying. I was not serious about my education, life in general really, and my experience there resulted in 5 years of on-off semesters, W after W, and a cum GPA of 2.9. One F.

I took two years off, came back to another community college, racked up 3 more F's in the first 2 semesters. These were in language courses. At this school I had decided that science, my passion in junior high and high school, was where I wanted to focus my energy. The F's were not from lack of a serious mindset, I really did have an insane work schedule. I made As in all my other classes, but something had to give and I picked the least important (if there is such a thing) class. I realized I needed to get out too late.

The good part about my second CC? I have been there 6 sem incl summer and am a straight A student here except for the Fs. I am involved in tons of extracurriculars, one of the most active students there. I have taken quite a few science/math courses and know I am on the right path. Medicine comes naturally to me- I am the caregiver out of my friends.

Academically I have a total of

15 W
4 F

The average of all my grades is somewhere in the 3.0 range.

I am applying to universities to finish my undergrad with the intention of going on to med school.

I need an honest answer first, assuming I have the IQ (I do), the rec letters, the great MCAT, the summer research internships, and will achieve a 4.0 from here on out... should I pick a new career now and save myself the money and heartache?

I know everyone has seen people like me before on this board. I hope I didn't exhaust everyone with my question. I just need a little encouragement-- or a reality check.

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[OBK]

with no malice or ill intent, good luck - it sure wont be easy

 

[MeowMix]

At this point, it is too early to say how you will do. You are the only one who can determine that.

You may have the IQ, but you will need to prove yourself academically. You do not have the latitude to be over-involved in ECs and get crappy grades. You cannot make excuses like your work schedule or your shifting passions. Everything has to fit together. 6 years of mediocre CC performance is a big black mark on a med school application, when you are competing against people who have excellent credentials. It does not matter how nice you are.

You should also investigate other professions. Just because you are a natural caregiver does not mean you should become a physician. There are a ton of other possibilities that might suit your personality better, and might get you working earlier at less cost. People often focus just on getting into med school. You could probably, eventually, get in somewhere, but it's going to take a long time and a lot of $$.

 

[Fooferaw B]

^ Completely agreed. It goes deeper than just the will to care for people. I didn't want to expound too much in my initial post because it was already a little windy. I just feel like I have all the parts. I gravitated toward hospitality because I love the interaction, the service, the problem solving.

Even during my bio classes at my first CC I was used as an example during labs. The instructor would call people over during labs and show my drawings or my dissected specimen as an example of how the class should be doing things. The only reason I got B's instead of acing those classes is because I wasn't studying.

I've been in situations with a clumsy roommate who would always injure herself and I had to fix her because she became incapacitated at the sight of her own blood.

It's just something that's always been in the back of my mind, even when I was pursuing a liberal arts career.

But you are right. There is so much work to be done. Perhaps I have to get a Master's, perhaps go the OD route, I don't know.

 

[glamqueen]

I wouldn't get a Master's - I would focus on acing more undergrad classes and bring up your undergrad GPA.

What is OD?

I would also agree that you should consider all medical professions. Perhaps nursing or nurse practitioner? Maybe PA also?

Repair will take a very long time for med school, but you may not need to spend as much time repairing if you went into another health field. Good luck.

 

[Fooferaw B]

Sorry, DO. A little keyboard dyslexia there.

 

[punkiedad]

What is DO? I am guessing you are from the west. I sometimes forget there are people that have no heard of an osteopathic physician.....

As far as original post.....the Ws are concerning and the Fs will come up. The simple answer is Yes you can do it....if you want it badly enough. It will take a lot of fixing, but mistakes are what makes us who we are. The real character is what you did after the mistake and how did you learn from it......The consistent Ws might be a bigger problem.

Best path is to get As and kill, I mean kill the MCAT. If you have the IQ, etc that you say, this would probably support this path as you may get bored in class, but have the intelligence to do well on MCAT. Either way, you will need to kill MCAT and get mosdt As to get in, IMHO.

Reading from your subsequent posts, you seem to take constructive criticism well. The only thing I would point out, is watch the "I am a natural caregiver" talk, but I let go of the meaningless classes. I think the whoel point is that you will have to do a lot of things to get to your goal just because they are required. When you start picking and choosing what is worthy of your time and focus, it may hint that you will pick and choose, and be vigiliant in what you think is important or worthy (god knows OCHEM seemed like a waste to me....) From now on nothing at all can be secondary. Every class, every lab ever LOR, etc...must be a priority. You don't have the luxury of mailing it in on any subsequent class, no matter what it is.

Soryr for the direct feedback, but you have an uphill battle, but it is very doable with a lot of work.

Best of luck

 

[sylvanthus]

OP- I was in a very similar situation as you. I had approxiamtely 14 Ws, several Fs, went to several community colleges, etc etc and I managed to get in to a couple DO programs as well as PA programs. I think it is doable, but you have a huge uphill battle.

Id comment more but most of the stuff you already know. You have to improve your grades, do well on the MCAT and get some good clinical experience/ volunteer experience.

Just know that others have been in your shoes and it is still possible, but it will take a lot of effort and time.


Justin

 

[de_la_soul]

OP- I was in a very similar situation as you. I had approxiamtely 14 Ws, several Fs, went to several community colleges, etc etc and I managed to get in to a couple DO programs as well as PA programs. I think it is doable, but you have a huge uphill battle.

Id comment more but most of the stuff you already know. You have to improve your grades, do well on the MCAT and get some good clinical experience/ volunteer experience.

Just know that others have been in your shoes and it is still possible, but it will take a lot of effort and time.


Justin

How many years of A's did it take to convince adcoms to admit you? I'm debating on continuing to take undergrad courses (about to finish one year of that) OR do an SMP. Thanks

 

[glamqueen]

I know what a DO is, but the OP wrote OD by mistake. I thought they meant something else. I am not from the west.

 

[Fooferaw B]

@ punkiedad: It's interesting that you say "Watch the natural caregiver talk." You're the second person who's said that to me. I've always been curious about why. Is it just that it's kind of a blanket statement, and I need to be more specific? That there are many ways to care for someone besides in the field of medicine?

@ everyone: Directness is what I came here for, along with constructive options and success stories from others like me. I need honesty right now. If all I wanted was a "you can do it," speech, I'd call my mom!

I'm so glad I found this site yesterday. I have a couple of friends in med school right now, but I can only lean on them so much. Keep the advice coming, guys.

 

[glamqueen]

Your caregiving statements make me think nursing not medicine. Doctors don't have as much patient contact, and their role isn't as much as a caregiver as it is a problem-solver/diagnoser type of thing. I would consider NP or CRNA options with some of the ideas you have with what you want to do.

 

[Fooferaw B]

@ glamqueen

Definitely, I have thought about those paths as well. It's good to know that there are plenty of options. Currently I am a concierge at a hotel and the problem solving/analysis is something that attracted me to the job, as well as the interaction. I lean toward primary care for that reason. I'm all about the preventative stuff in my own life, and am constantly gently bugging my friends about exercise, diet, rest, things like that.

 

[sylvanthus]

How many years of A's did it take to convince adcoms to admit you? I'm debating on continuing to take undergrad courses (about to finish one year of that) OR do an SMP. Thanks

Took me approximately an extra 3 years of classes. But, I did get in on my first and only attempt. How much more do you have to get your undergrad? You could always delay graduating and take random science classes that don't fit the requirements for your specific degree, so long as your school doesn't have a max credit policy that is. Or even get a double degree/double major.

 

[0Complications]

Took me approximately an extra 3 years of classes. But, I did get in on my first and only attempt. How much more do you have to get your undergrad? You could always delay graduating and take random science classes that don't fit the requirements for your specific degree, so long as your school doesn't have a max credit policy that is. Or even get a double degree/double major.

I'm in the same boat as you guys. I have a ton of NC's (W's) from about 10 years and a few sprinkled here and there up until a few years ago.

I didn't care though, I'm doing what sylvanthus did and put in some extra undergrad time. Finally brought the gpa up, but it took 5 years. It's worth it to me, because this is what I plan on doing for the rest of my life. The way I looked at it was that in 5 years I could either be filthy rich doing a job I don't like doing or busting my @ss to get where I feel I would be the happiest in life. So, ask yourself where you really want to be in the next 3-5 years, because one way or another those 3-5 years are going to pass and you're either going to be doing something that you love or stuck wishing you had pursued your dream. But don't forget, that would be just to get you into medical school. Then you have 4 years of MD education, 3+ years of residency, and maybe a year or two of research and fellowship. That's a total of ~12-16 years before you would be practicing. So when you ask yourself where you want to be in 5 years, then add another 5 and another 5. If you answer is still the same go for it!

As far as the caregiver comment, I agree with the above posters. I think what you really ought to do is to keep attending classes in a capacity you can continue to get A's and go volunteer at a hospital. See what you're getting yourself into. Network a little. Shadow some docs, PA's, Nurses, etc. and see what you prefer. I think once you really see inside a hospital you'll know why people think the "caregiver" statement sounds either canned or more attributable to a different postion within a hospital or long-term care facility.

I wish you the best of luck. People will always doubt you on your journey, so just keep your head up and pursue your dreams, whatever those end up being.

 

[glamqueen]

0Complications - just had to say it - what an impressive journey you have taken. I wish you the best of luck in the upcoming cycle.

OP - definitely learn something from the above post. If you want something bad enough - put the time in and bring the GPA up.

Good luck to the both of you.

 

[de_la_soul]

Took me approximately an extra 3 years of classes. But, I did get in on my first and only attempt. How much more do you have to get your undergrad? You could always delay graduating and take random science classes that don't fit the requirements for your specific degree, so long as your school doesn't have a max credit policy that is. Or even get a double degree/double major.

I graduated a few years back and didn't end on a high note. I'm taking classes now through Extension, but I'm having troubles paying for classes now. I read about some members on here applying for a second bachelor's to get federal loans...tried that at my campus (University of California system), they said it's too late to apply for Fall '09 admission. So that kinda sucks.

 

[Fooferaw B]

@ 0Complications

I know it was kind of a dis, but I have to say, your use of the word "canned" made me laugh. I admit that my word choice might have been a little glib.

Anyway, I take the same approach as you when it comes to my future. I could have had a really fun, interesting, lucrative career if I had continued full speed ahead in the hotel business. In the end, my heart was not in it and there was no substance to it. People look at me all the time when I talk about my intended career and say, "You really want to be in school forever, don't you?" But what is the alternative?

Instructors tell me I'd make a fine doctor. Friends who are physicians have offered to let me shadow them. But I come to you guys because many have been through the admissions process, know what it takes and can candidly share facts and experiences. None of the people in my corner know about my crash-and-burn a few years back. I would tell them if they asked, but I know their opinion of me would change.

Full disclosure? I had thought about omitting my first school experience on undergrad apps. I'm not a dishonest person, and the internal debate was sickening. I was not only mad about my foolish choices the first time around, but I was mad at myself for even entertaining dishonesty. I finally told myself no once and for all.

It's tempting to convince yourself that since you feel like a different person, that you should be treated as one. In the end, we can't hide from who we were. I was the worst kind of student- smart and lazy. Gifted classes all through school, ACTs at 12, and then I just blew everything off. What a waste!!

Okay, now I'll hop off my soapbox and ask everyone an actual question...

Do W grades count as Fs on the AMCAS?

 

[keithokc]

Hey Foo-

W do not count against your GPA on AMCAS.

On another note, you can do anything you put your mind to (not trying to be a cliche'). There are alot of overzealous premeds on here that want you to think that what you are doing (trying to get into med school) is too hard for you to even attempt.

Truth is you have an uphill battle, but you dont seemed phased by the work requirements needed to get you into medical school. Just take alot of science and math classes and get nothing but A's and then kill the MCAT and apply broadly. If your passion and work ethic are strong then you can do it but it will take time - it will take a while to bring that GPA up and prove you have the focus, drive and tenacity it takes to do well in medical school.

PASSION is ACTION ! no excuses, reasons or qualifications. Do the work make the grades and kill the MCAT and you can do it.

 

[LanaJade]

@ 0Complications

I know it was kind of a dis, but I have to say, your use of the word "canned" made me laugh. I admit that my word choice might have been a little glib.

Anyway, I take the same approach as you when it comes to my future. I could have had a really fun, interesting, lucrative career if I had continued full speed ahead in the hotel business. In the end, my heart was not in it and there was no substance to it. People look at me all the time when I talk about my intended career and say, "You really want to be in school forever, don't you?" But what is the alternative?

Instructors tell me I'd make a fine doctor. Friends who are physicians have offered to let me shadow them. But I come to you guys because many have been through the admissions process, know what it takes and can candidly share facts and experiences. None of the people in my corner know about my crash-and-burn a few years back. I would tell them if they asked, but I know their opinion of me would change.

Full disclosure? I had thought about omitting my first school experience on undergrad apps. I'm not a dishonest person, and the internal debate was sickening. I was not only mad about my foolish choices the first time around, but I was mad at myself for even entertaining dishonesty. I finally told myself no once and for all.

It's tempting to convince yourself that since you feel like a different person, that you should be treated as one. In the end, we can't hide from who we were. I was the worst kind of student- smart and lazy. Gifted classes all through school, ACTs at 12, and then I just blew everything off. What a waste!!

Okay, now I'll hop off my soapbox and ask everyone an actual question...

Do W grades count as Fs on the AMCAS?

OP- Even though you're thinking of omitting your first school experience on your undergrad apps, and that may be fine, don't underestimate what can happen if you also omit in on AMCAS. Med schools expects you to report every grade received in a post-secondary institution, no matter if you did or did not report it to your home institution (which would be your future undergrad school). If the med school finds out about unreported grades, that can be terms to expel the student since they weren't completely honest on the application. Just a heads up.

 

[0Complications]

Thanks, Glamqueen. Best of luck to you as well!

Instructors tell me I'd make a fine doctor. Friends who are physicians have offered to let me shadow them. But I come to you guys because many have been through the admissions process, know what it takes and can candidly share facts and experiences. None of the people in my corner know about my crash-and-burn a few years back. I would tell them if they asked, but I know their opinion of me would change.

We are a compilation of our experiences and what we have learned from them. If you can't tell the people in your corner who can you tell? Their opinion is based on who you are now, not who you were then.

I certainly wouldn't offer the info up at random to someone you have just met, but someone you are seeking guidance from can't properly advice you without all the facts.

Telling my PI about my educational history was embarrassing, but it's a mistake I made and when asking for letters of recommendation it's best that those people in your corner are completely abreast of your situation otherwise your letters might not be as strong as they can be. If you tell them then they can address these points in your letters to schools, letting them know that they wouldn't have even recognized that person who is on your transcript all those years ago. They can talk about all the great things you're doing now and this helps to demonstrate that you can overcome adversity and other can attest to that fact as well.

 

[Fooferaw B]

@ LanaJade

No, I'm definitely not thinking about omitting any longer. I am sure many of us were tempted, but I'm going to be honest. I have too much integrity to misrepresent myself.

 

[Fooferaw B]

@ 0Complications

Very lemonade-from-lemons response about the people in my corner and my past. I think you are absolutely right about the rec letters and the assistance they might be willing to give. Thanks for the perspective!

 

[LanaJade]

Great We wouldn't want you to do all the hard work and have an overslight like that be the end of it. Best of luck!

@ LanaJade

No, I'm definitely not thinking about omitting any longer. I am sure many of us were tempted, but I'm going to be honest. I have too much integrity to misrepresent myself.

 

[punkiedad]

@ punkiedad: It's interesting that you say "Watch the natural caregiver talk." You're the second person who's said that to me. I've always been curious about why. Is it just that it's kind of a blanket statement, and I need to be more specific? That there are many ways to care for someone besides in the field of medicine?

@ everyone: Directness is what I came here for, along with constructive options and success stories from others like me. I need honesty right now. If all I wanted was a "you can do it," speech, I'd call my mom!

I'm so glad I found this site yesterday. I have a couple of friends in med school right now, but I can only lean on them so much. Keep the advice coming, guys.

Thanks for not taking it seriously. I think it is a detail thing. In my previous life, I used to manage sales people and even sales managers. When interviewing people for sales jobs, I always avoided people that said "I can sell anything." "People tell me I should be in sales" or my favorite "I can sell ice to eskimos." More times than not, these people were dreamers, talkers and more full of themself than others who were really action orientated. Now, I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS YOU....That is one problem with written word is that it carries no inflection or tone. I am just saying it was a red flag. The actual red flag is someone saying they would make a great xxxxxxxx without the accompanying detail as to why they would make a great xxxx.

So, just trying to be articulate not condescending. If you believe this and others do as well, just be prepared to answer the question "Why do you think you would make a good doctor." or "Tell me about a specific situation with details about when you helped someone."

On a side note, my brother started at three different colleges and ended on a fourth before he finally got into med school. Had tons of bad grades....he still wont admit to me what he got on the MCAT....but, he got in.

Good luck to you......you can do it if you want.

 

[glamqueen]

There's some great advice here. OP- I'm totally amused at your Twitter-ific response style. Isn't it amazing how that application has totally changed communication? LOL. Not a slam at all - more of a "can't believe things have changed" type of comment. Twitter had such an overnight effect, didn't it?

Good luck, OP!

 

[Fooferaw B]

Thanks for not taking it seriously. I think it is a detail thing. In my previous life, I used to manage sales people and even sales managers. When interviewing people for sales jobs, I always avoided people that said "I can sell anything." "People tell me I should be in sales" or my favorite "I can sell ice to eskimos." More times than not, these people were dreamers, talkers and more full of themself than others who were really action orientated. Now, I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS YOU....That is one problem with written word is that it carries no inflection or tone. I am just saying it was a red flag. The actual red flag is someone saying they would make a great xxxxxxxx without the accompanying detail as to why they would make a great xxxx.

So, just trying to be articulate not condescending. If you believe this and others do as well, just be prepared to answer the question "Why do you think you would make a good doctor." or "Tell me about a specific situation with details about when you helped someone."

On a side note, my brother started at three different colleges and ended on a fourth before he finally got into med school. Had tons of bad grades....he still wont admit to me what he got on the MCAT....but, he got in.

Good luck to you......you can do it if you want.

Excellent points. I don't take offense at any criticism/suggestions here. In general, it takes an awful lot to offend me.

Working in hotels for so many years, I struggle to disengage from speaking in soundbites when I am not at work. From your past experiences, you appear to know my pain.

The other person who told me to watch out for the caregiver response: a biology instructor at my school who used to be a doctor. I met with him to discuss my plans for the future, and he said that adcoms will not appreciate that kind of talk. I took the advice but still wondered why, and now it's more clear.

I later found out that in his day he was one of the top oncoligists in the country, on a couple of ad boards, and one of the first people to earn an MD/PhD. After he retired, he was restless and driving his wife crazy. She told him to find a hobby so he took up teaching at my college. I unknowingly got advice from one of the most qualified people to offer it. But I'm still scared to death to tell him about my school screw-up.

Another thing he said: the profession is conservative, and one has to be very careful about expressing an interest in natural or preventative medicine during an interview. Interesting, but I suppose I can see why.

And @ glamqueen

Twitteriffic, ha! I completely agree it has changed communication, scarily so, but I'm not a member myself. Are you referring to the @ or my writing style? The "@" thing I learned from another blog. My sentence structure is more a result of my work experience mentioned above and also from writing freelance for local newspapers. Instructors always mention they notice a journalistic style in my essays.

Thanks for talking with me, guys!!! This advice is invaluable.

 

[Fooferaw B]

... and, how about I spell oncologist wrong while I'm at it, huh?