2008 MD/PhD Match

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Columbia (source: website)

Anesthesiology - MGH
Radiation Oncology - MSKCC
Radiology - UCSF

Miami (source: website)

OB/GYN - Miami

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In any case, my personal opinion is that the "culture" of psychiatry does not exactly encourage basic science. A lot of programs emphasize psychotherapy for instance over pharmacology. In that way folks w/ a background in neuroscience research are better served in neurology/neurosurgery.

A generation ago there used to be a much bigger divide between psychotherapy and psychopharm than there is now. "Balanced" programs value research in both of these areas, and people are starting to further bridge the divide by asking research questions like "what exactly is psychotherapy doing to the brain", etc. The lifestyle and structure of the residency is certainly amenable to research, and psychiatry departments strongly recruit potential residents and faculty with research interests.

In our class of 12, we matched 3 MD/PhDs (plus a couple more with significant research interests). The incoming interns will have 4 MD/PhDs. So I guess the secret's getting out ;)
 
Yale (source: correlated match list with student listing)
Anesthesiology - UConn
Internal Medicine - Chicago (Research Track)
Neurology - Yale
OB/GYN - Pitt
Pathology - Vanderbilt
Pathology/CP - Yale
Psychiatry - MGH
Radiation Oncology - UCSF
Radiation Oncology - Yale
Radiology - Yale
Urology - UCLA
Postdoc - Johns Hopkins

UConn (source: PM)
Internal Medicine - NYP Cornell
Internal Medicine - Rochester
Internal Medicine - Yale
Pathology - Yale
Psychiatry - Yale

UIC (source: correlated student listing to match list)
Anesthesiology - Cleveland Clinic
Internal Medicine - CWRU
Ophthalmology - Johns Hopkins
Pathology - WashU
Psychiatry - MGH
Radiology - CWRU

Rochester (source: correlated match list to student listing)
Pediatrics - CHOP (name changed after marriage?)
another name not listed in match list
 
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Pitt (source: website)
Internal Medicine - Emory
Internal Medicine - Thomas Jefferson
Internal Medicine - Yale
Orthopaedic Surgery - Penn State
Ophthalmology - Mt. Sinai
Otolaryngology - Baylor
Pathology - Utah
Pediatrics - Children's Boston
Pediatrics - Cincinnati Children's
Pediatrics - UCLA
Pediatrics - UCSF
PMR - Pitt
Radiology - Yale
Prelim - CWRU
Prelim - Pitt
One not listed (website lists 16 graduates, but only 15 matches)

UNC (source: correlated match list to student listing)
Internal Medicine - BID
Internal Medicine - UNC
Ophthalmology - Duke
Pediatrics - UNC
PMR - Virginia
Psychiatry - UCDavis
Radiation Oncology - Duke
 
It was Internal Medicine -Mt. Sinai Research. That sudent is doing the research track
 
Very few psychiatry programs are basic/translation science oriented. In fact, psychiatry in general lacks adequate biochemical explanations for the effects of psychotropics. Of course, some would view this as fertile ground for medical investigation . . .

It turns out that some of the programs that most heavily emphasize psychotherapy (e.g. Columbia, Penn) have some of the best neuroscience research. These are also programs that take a more integrative view of the mind and brain. A narrow and reductionist view of psychiatry and neuroscience is that the only level of analysis that is relevant to the development of therapies is the molecular and cellular. An adequate explanation of how psychotropics work will not be a purely biochemical one, but will also involve consideration of how large-scale systems in the brain interact to give rise to complex cognition. To have this understanding, one must be good at thinking about how the mind works, which goes beyond knowing which drug binds to which receptor. That is one useful aspect of learning psychotherapy.
 
Colorado (source: director)
Child Neurology - UCSF
Internal Medicine - Stanford
Ophthalmology - UC Irvine
Pediatrics - UC Davis
Psychiatry - Wisconsin
Radiation Oncology - Michigan

MUSC (source: director)
Neurodevelopmental Disorders - Johns Hopkins (Kennedy-Krieger)
Emergency Medicine - Allegheny General
Ophthalmology - Utah
Pathology - MGH
Pathology - MUSC
Radiology - MUSC

Penn State (source: director)
Internal Medicine - British Columbia
Medicine / Pediatrics - Indiana
Ophthalmology - Penn State
 
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Any idea when "Charting Outcomes 2008" will be available?
 
Duke (source: website)
Anesthesiology OHSU
Internal Medicine Duke
Internal Medicine Duke
Internal Medicine Michigan
Neurology WFU
Pathology Stanford
Pediatrics Duke
Psychiatry Duke
Psychiatry NYP Cornell
Radiation Oncology MSK
Radiology Brigham
Faculty Position Duke
Business

This concludes this year's list, at least until Oregon decides to send me their data.
 
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I was googling for Emory MSTP matches this year and came across your post...

Residencies, including IM, do support research despite your clinical obligations. I'm a second year res at arguably the toughest IM residency known to man (in Baltimore) and happen to find time to do real bench research. In fact, I'm in the lab now. I have a program director who has been very supportive of my project after I wrote a grant to get external funding as an intern. Gotten about $10,000 in grants from multiple sources plus some to do this. Plus, I'm not short-tracking.

Anyway, my point is, if you really want to do research during residency, you can. Just find a PD that is supportive of it in regards to research time and funding. It requires some effort on your part to secure the funding, but anything worth doing is a struggle.

Not to sound critical, but I would hold back on some advice lest you deter someone into going into IM because "it doesn't allow for real research." IM is really one of the more intellectually stimulating residencies which speaks to the physician-scientist. We need more MD-PhDs.

Good luck with MSTP! It's well worth it :)



This statement echoes the sort of bias against those specialties that my program officials seem to have. So being the PITA that I am, I will challenge it.

What residencies do support *real* research during residency? Internal Medicine residency is a balls to the wall 80+ hours a week crapstorm of scut as far as I can tell. To address that a few programs let you can shave a year off the scut and put that towards research and we call that fast tracking. That is a very small minority. Residency is still mostly about clinical work.

I don't know about Dermatology, so I'll speak to Radiology. A few programs in Radiology give you a year protected time during your residency to do research. I think this is similar to fast-tracking in that it provides for more research time. Of course most residencies are most are mostly clinical because again, that's what residency is for. Residency is a clinical time to train. Just like in IM subspecialties, there are many research intensive fellowships in Radiology to go around.

The MD/PhDs are ending up at the research heavy Radiology programs however, like MGH and Penn and such and these *DO* support real research during residency during that year or this other option...

http://www.theabr.org/RO_Holman.htm

which is a very research intensive pathway funded by the American Board of Radiology.

It's up to the applicant whether or not they want to make research a part of their career. What I see happening with increased frequency is the following. Let's call them student A and student B.

Student A fast tracks into an IM residency, then does a minimal-procedural, traditionally low-paying IM fellowship. Student A then fights tooth and nail 80+ hours a week for many years fighting for funding and promotions. Maybe they're successful, maybe they aren't. Maybe their children know who they are, maybe they don't. If they're lucky they break $150k and get 2 weeks a year of vacation, which they spend revising grants anyways. The private practice options for their area isn't all that much better, so they don't really have other great options anyways.

Student B takes the research track of a Radiology residency. Sure they're interested in research at first but they're also interested in Rads. They might even be as gung ho about research as Student A. Then student B realizes around the age of 35 or so that they can take a 60 hour a week job upon graduation in the real world with 3+ months of vacation per year and make $400k/year. Meanwhile if they stay in research they face the same fate as student A, being 40 and still working 80+ hours a week fighting tooth and nail for grants.

So Student B chooses the private practice pathway. Who can blame them? In the real world you have better job stability, MUCH higher pay (2-3x), better hours, more vacation, more location flexibility... For all you early 20something applicants, you can play the I'M BETTER THAN THAT card all you want. But after year after year of busting your *** with no end in sight it's certainly nice to have a payoff to your 15 years of post-high school education. This is especially true when you have kids to see and outside interests you want to persue.

This is as much a problem for the Rads departments. They can't pay a lot because of NIH salary caps. They can't really afford it anyways. The Rads department is busy propping up the rest of the hospital so it doesn't collapse under Medicare funding cuts. Student As department is losing money and so Student B's department has to make up for it. But there's a caveat there too. Good luck recruiting the people to work there and keep the whole scheme afloat.

Maybe this won't be as much an issue in the future. If Rads gets slashed or Derm takes some kind of major ding and the job options are equalized between private practice and the clinical world. Something else will have to replace them or numerous hospitals will collapse because the profit from the lucrative subspecialties are saving many of the inner city hospitals from complete failure. Maybe NIH funding will come back on line such that a research track is almost guaranteed to be a success as long as you are competent and you don't have to spend all your time fighting well into your 40s.

I'm sorry boys and girls, but if the future really is as bleak as the one I've painted here, I'm glad I have the out if I go into a high paying specialty. I love Radiology research. I'm not willing to sacrifice the rest of my life for it. For the curious, I am a 5th year (going on 6th year) and I'm probably the most passionate about continuing to do basic science research of any of the 5th years I've talked to.
 
I'm impressed that you were able to accomplish so much in internship/residency 80/20.

Do you really think my post would convince someone not to go into IM? I would never want that. I actually in private convinced someone recently to do IM after an IM rotation director told that student not to choose IM because it's bad for serious research! That student almost went into Path instead. I believe we MD/PhDs are the smartest (at least most stubborn) people in the world and we'll make up our own minds. Besides, nobody listens to me much past applying to an MD/PhD program anyways :laugh:. There's plenty of people out there promoting IM. Program directors still love to suggest IM to their students (at least mine do!) and IM is the most popular residency choice for MD/PhDs. My original post was just in response to the notion that certain residencies are more suited to MD/PhDs than certain other residencies. I still challenge this assertion, and IM is an easy target because it is the #1 choice for MD/PhDs and always has been. But IM is and will remain a popular choice and I view my own role not as one to convince anyone of anything, but just to challenge what we all hear and think.

Anyways, I always appreciate when someone challenges what I hear and think too :).
 
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80 hours a week + 8 hours/night of sleep = 136 hours. Total hours in a week = 168 hours.

As someone starting internship in a few months, this really puts what my life will be into startling perspective... :eek:
 
As someone starting internship in a few months, this really puts what my life will be into startling perspective... :eek:

There's been many times in my life where I've put in 80+ hours a week. I can safely say I don't ever want to do it again. In fact, I'd like to get as close to 40 hours as I can so I can enjoy a lot of other pursuits that I have in life. I'm very concerned that for me, this attitude will destroy any possible career in academic medicine or its related fields.
 
The 80 hours (at least in the good surgery program my so is in) includes some sleep (eg. in house call) and meals should you be lucky enough to have time. And you simply have to resign to getting by on 5-6 hours of sleep/night. However, it leaves you enough time to be social a few days a week and crank out a chart review every few months.

Now, neurosurg here, on the other hand, makes a total mockery of 80 hours. pgy2 does q2 call, with many shifts running 6am to 6pm. That's 36 on, 12 off (about twice your 80 hour work week).
 
It turns out that some of the programs that most heavily emphasize psychotherapy (e.g. Columbia, Penn) have some of the best neuroscience research. These are also programs that take a more integrative view of the mind and brain. A narrow and reductionist view of psychiatry and neuroscience is that the only level of analysis that is relevant to the development of therapies is the molecular and cellular. An adequate explanation of how psychotropics work will not be a purely biochemical one, but will also involve consideration of how large-scale systems in the brain interact to give rise to complex cognition. To have this understanding, one must be good at thinking about how the mind works, which goes beyond knowing which drug binds to which receptor. That is one useful aspect of learning psychotherapy.

not to sidetrack this discussion, and I agree with you completely. The problem is, psychoanalysis, as a fundamental aspect of psychotherapy, is at the most basic level, NOT scientific. Karl Popper made this argument a hundred years ago. I think if you are a basic researcher going into psychiatry, you HAVE to recognize that psychiatry has this schism that's essentially NOT amenable to be bridged, and be okay with it.
 
not to sidetrack this discussion, and I agree with you completely. The problem is, psychoanalysis, as a fundamental aspect of psychotherapy, is at the most basic level, NOT scientific. Karl Popper made this argument a hundred years ago. I think if you are a basic researcher going into psychiatry, you HAVE to recognize that psychiatry has this schism that's essentially NOT amenable to be bridged, and be okay with it.

I'm not sure what you mean by scientific. If you mean "evidence based", there is good evidence from randomized controlled trials that psychotherapies such as CBT and DBT can work for things like anxiety, depression and certain personality disorder. These psychotherapies are quite distinct from psychoanalysis, though they are all historically rooted in the basic tenets that come out of psychoanalysis (i.e. therapeutic alliance, treatment frame, therapeutic neutrality, etc.). All of this work (and even the development of these modalities) came after Karl Popper. If by scientific you mean based upon a deterministic (i.e. cause and effect) model or having a hypothesized biological substrate, then psychoanalysis would definitely qualify, though there is less evidence from RCTs to support the efficacy of psychoanalysis (i.e. few trials have examined this with adequate methods). There is plenty of research being done on the biological mechanisms of psychotherapy-induced change.
 
not to sidetrack this discussion, and I agree with you completely. The problem is, psychoanalysis, as a fundamental aspect of psychotherapy, is at the most basic level, NOT scientific. Karl Popper made this argument a hundred years ago. I think if you are a basic researcher going into psychiatry, you HAVE to recognize that psychiatry has this schism that's essentially NOT amenable to be bridged, and be okay with it.

You could make the same argument about tons of common medical practices that are in use in multiple specialties. For example, if someone can explain a detailed mechanism for how levetiracetam prevents seizure, I'll give you a cookie. And binding to a protein attached to synaptic vesicles with completely unknown function isn't a detailed mechanisms. And developing new drugs by finding stuff the binds with higher affinity to sv2a isn't really that scientific except as a biochem exercise. I think one could probably come up with several examples from most specialties of treatments that were developed either by throwing random drugs/compounds/therapy paradigms at patients/rats/flies.
 
There's been many times in my life where I've put in 80+ hours a week. I can safely say I don't ever want to do it again. In fact, I'd like to get as close to 40 hours as I can so I can enjoy a lot of other pursuits that I have in life. I'm very concerned that for me, this attitude will destroy any possible career in academic medicine or its related fields.

Are you planning on doing a residency?
 
You could make the same argument about tons of common medical practices that are in use in multiple specialties. For example, if someone can explain a detailed mechanism for how levetiracetam prevents seizure, I'll give you a cookie. And binding to a protein attached to synaptic vesicles with completely unknown function isn't a detailed mechanisms. And developing new drugs by finding stuff the binds with higher affinity to sv2a isn't really that scientific except as a biochem exercise. I think one could probably come up with several examples from most specialties of treatments that were developed either by throwing random drugs/compounds/therapy paradigms at patients/rats/flies.

whether or not something is scientific has nothing to do with whether the underlying mechanism is revealed. it has to do with falsifiability. psychoanalysis is not falsifiable. at its very core, there is no falsifiable measurement of transference/counter-transference. it's completely individualistic. it's more like playing the violin. i'm not saying that it's not useful. i'm not saying that it's not worthwhile. i'm simply saying it's not scientific. i think psychiatrists should stop pretending that psychoanalysis--including its various modern incarnations like Bowby and "objective relations theory"--is scientific. just cause something isn't scientific doesn't mean it's worthless. art isn't scientific. religion isn't scientific. is it really even fair to use what little we have in science to work with the mind?

yes, CBT/DBT can be scientific. Axis I stuff can be scientific. but there's the WHOLE huge part of psychiatry that isn't about science AT ALL. I'm just saying people who go into it have to make peace with that.
 
RE: psychiatry, there seems to me a lot of emphasis on the molecular/cellular mechanisms but very little on systems level electrical activity. What it comes down to is that the code that essentially leads to cognition/behavior is embedded in the complex and synchronized electrical activity of neurons, and you'd expect that in brain disorders that pattern of activity goes wrong. Cellular/molecular mechanisms are tools to manifest such activity. Still, few scientists (AFAIK) approach psychiatric disorders from that perspective, and the reason I guess is that systems neuroscience is still trying to grapple with much simpler questions.
 
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