2010-2011 SUNY Upstate Application Thread

[obgyny]

so if it says complete, then that means they received the signature page too?

Oh, is this the school where if you didn't pay online or something, you had to mail a signature page, right? Sorry I have so many schools, I'm confusing them all lol. Since I paid online, I didn't send in a signature page. Hopefully someone else who did turn one in and is complete can chime in .

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[Antonio070]

Oh, is this the school where if you didn't pay online or something, you had to mail a signature page, right? Sorry I have so many schools, I'm confusing them all lol. Since I paid online, I didn't send in a signature page. Hopefully someone else who did turn one in and is complete can chime in .

yea i think everyone needed to print, signt, and mail in the signature page. i paid online, but still had to send in the signature page.

 

[dcjpitt]

If you read all of the secondary email they send, it says this near the bottom:

"IF YOU PAID YOUR NON-REFUNDABLE APPLICATION FEE ON-LINE, YOU DO NOT NEED TO SEND IN THE SIGNATURE PAGE OR THE APPLICATION FEE. Once your
application fee posts to your application, you will also receive an email
regarding any remaining missing application materials."

Although I paid online (7/21), I haven't received any notification of completion yet.

 

[DoC352]

Although I paid online (7/21), I haven't received any notification of completion yet.

Yeah I'm a little worried, some people said they got complete emails, but I never did... But my app does say complete on the status page, so I'm a wee bit confused.

 

[mickeymed]

Yeah I'm a little worried, some people said they got complete emails, but I never did... But my app does say complete on the status page, so I'm a wee bit confused.

I called they said they were having trouble with the completion emails, but if it says complete you are. Also, if your status of complete disappears then you are in line to be reviewed. hope this helps!

 

[Quaero]

im also international w 27Q/3.86 and got an interview
Fingers crossed

Congrats on you interview invitation

 

[silverwyvern4]

Interview Invite on 8/13 for 9/13
Complete 8/1
Instate

 

[mickeymed]

are the people who got interviews early decision? or only instate?

 

[dcjpitt]

Finally got a complete email. I think it took them a while to download my letters.

 

[runawayclock]

They downloaded my LORs the day I submitted (Aug 4th... late ;___. I'm marked complete but never got an email...

SUNY Upstate, show me some love (even though I'm international/OOS).

 

[FIREitUP]

I never got an official complete email but received an interview. So don't freak out if you haven't received a complete email but your status says you are complete online.

Edit: I am instate.

 

[rafflecopter]

This is my first interview invite!! Got the invite yesterday. Out of state applicant, never got the complete email!

 

[FIREitUP]

For the last question, it can be any challenge you have overcame, correct? Or does it have to involve ethics?

 

[CmRuLz88]

Is there a way to confirm if they have your signature page? I paid over the phone and also emailed them saying I paid, all my required documents say they have been received but my application status still doesn't appear.

 

[etherpentane]

For the last question, it can be any challenge you have overcame, correct? Or does it have to involve ethics?

I was wondering the same thing. I'm not sure. Anybody?

 

[rafflecopter]

The way I read the question, they are implying a certain ethical dilemma. I'd choose one keeping that in mind, just to be safe.

 

[wanderer]

Technically, the challenge can be anything since the first sentence does not connect to the second. The way I read it, it can be any challenge since the ethical dilemma seems to be a sort of preamble, but they might want you to use an ethical dilemma. If you don't use an ethical dilemma it's probably best to prepare one for the interview just in case.

 

[theMan2012]

I used to have a "complete" under application status but now application status is not even there... has this happened to anyone else?

 

[Damege]

It means you are on line to be reviewed. Of course, I've had the missing complete status for a week, so don't expect a response that soon.

 

[MDToBe2015]

Make sure to check the website constantly - I hadn't checked it for a few days, and I logged in today to see that I had been invited for an interview!! I am so excited!

 

[runawayclock]

Ahhhh the mysterious missing status. Not sure exactly when it disappeared though....

 

[boggvir]

Mine has been like that for about 10 days now I think (the missing status).

 

[anfleisch]

Does anyone/everyone else have no preference for application preference? Is this referring to dual degree programs or something.

 

[runawayclock]

Does anyone/everyone else have no preference for application preference? Is this referring to dual degree programs or something.

I remember the only way I could put down a preference was if i went to the page that had no option for the MD program, so it says NO PREFERENCE for mine also.

just wondering, but is SUNY upstate one of the nicer schools where they let you know that you are rejected pre-interview or just string you along with the ominously empty status slot until March?

 

[wanderer]

I remember the only way I could put down a preference was if i went to the page that had no option for the MD program, so it says NO PREFERENCE for mine also.

just wondering, but is SUNY upstate one of the nicer schools where they let you know that you are rejected pre-interview or just string you along with the ominously empty status slot until March?

They do reject pre-interview, but it takes a little bit longer than interview invites. They also do pre-interview holds which usually are rejections.

 

[AnxiousBoy]

If Upstate becomes your only choice after the dust settles, then by all means come. But if you end up having choices afterward, I suggest you run for the hills.

After several years of this nonsense, I feel fatigue, weakness, numbness, and tremors, for lack of better words. The students are unhappy, some classes are just downright poorly taught, the weather sucks big time..... but the worst is the un-empathetic administration who will put you down with any concerns you may have. Only the class officers can get any kind of dialog going and even then it becomes a bunch of firework talk of "student first" blah blah blah before they'll sweep you aside. Every class has their own horror stories and it becomes a little comical when we share with each other.

Did I mention about the tuition increase? A new increase was passed putting OOS tuition one of the highest in the nation, if not the highest. It's up 50% since a few years ago when NY state went into budget troubles, and as long as they continue to have issues, count on having further massive increases. Now ask yourself the question, are you getting the best education in the nation when you pay the most expensive tuition?

When you go on your interviews and see the jolly students interviewing you and telling you how great it is and the professors telling you how great it is, take it as a grain of salt. For every happy interviewer you get, there are 10 more in the shadows who are not happy. That was my mistake. I took the impression I got on interview day (which was great, btw) and thought that was what I was getting.

Well, so now you've heard both sides. You have all the information now so choose wisely and good luck with your interviews.

 

[fatalerror]

So I got an e-mail from SUNY stating that I'm complete. Problem is one of my required letters hasn't arrived yet (according to AMCAS). How is that possible? I don't think they can review my file without the science letter (there are only 2 total).

I'll e-mail them to to ask, but anyone has any clue as to what they are doing?

 

[ronaldo23]

If Upstate becomes your only choice after the dust settles, then by all means come. But if you end up having choices afterward, I suggest you run for the hills.

After several years of this nonsense, I feel fatigue, weakness, numbness, and tremors, for lack of better words. The students are unhappy, some classes are just downright poorly taught, the weather sucks big time..... but the worst is the un-empathetic administration who will put you down with any concerns you may have. Only the class officers can get any kind of dialog going and even then it becomes a bunch of firework talk of "student first" blah blah blah before they'll sweep you aside. Every class has their own horror stories and it becomes a little comical when we share with each other.

Did I mention about the tuition increase? A new increase was passed putting OOS tuition one of the highest in the nation, if not the highest. It's up 50% since a few years ago when NY state went into budget troubles, and as long as they continue to have issues, count on having further massive increases. Now ask yourself the question, are you getting the best education in the nation when you pay the most expensive tuition?

When you go on your interviews and see the jolly students interviewing you and telling you how great it is and the professors telling you how great it is, take it as a grain of salt. For every happy interviewer you get, there are 10 more in the shadows who are not happy. That was my mistake. I took the impression I got on interview day (which was great, btw) and thought that was what I was getting.

Well, so now you've heard both sides. You have all the information now so choose wisely and good luck with your interviews.

This seems vague. Can you give a couple examples from both your experience, and the stories others have told you?

 

[runawayclock]

This seems vague. Can you give a couple examples from both your experience, and the stories others have told you?

I've heard similarly vague, depressing stories about NYMC. More specific stories would be helpful! Does SUNY upstate not prepare you well for STEP 1 or matching?

 

[AnxiousBoy]

This seems vague. Can you give a couple examples from both your experience, and the stories others have told you?

I'm not going to include any personal experiences that only affect me in fear of being identified (and the list is long), but I'll share two recent issues affecting everyone that happened within months from a long list that I know of from my few years.

1. We have a fourth year pathophysiology course (which from what I heard was objected to in the first place from being created but that's before my time). There was nothing wrong with the course and everyone accepted it as something we had to do. It consisted of 30 1-week case studies with a simple weekly write-up and quiz. Only 16 of these need to be completed. The admin decided to change this format into 15 2-week case studies consisting of a quiz and a term paper for each case. While the second approach adds considerably more amount of work, that wasn't what the class was concerned about. The class liked how the first system worked because it gave options to shuffle cases to avoid interview travel dates and step 2 studies. The class felt strongly that they should focus solely on the important objective ahead of them instead of worrying about finishing cases the night before your residency interviews. The class offered alternatives to try to meet the demands of the course changes while trying to address their own concerns. The administration strung the class officers along, and then added a backhand slap comment of how graciously and effectively the officers translated the concerns and how they heard the students' voices and blah blah blah, then came up with their own final compromise. The student can write a case report good enough for publication and then present it at Student Research Day for 1/3 of the course. That's right. A full research and writeup for 5 lousy case studies. What med student has the time to attend classes and run a clinical study at the same time? Obviously this was an option no one was going to take (unless you've coincidentally have done some research during your first two years). Now the biggest slap is that each class assigns 2 students to the curriculum board. Remember, upstate's motto is "students first" so they "allow" student representatives to these meetings so that students can have a voice. They knew fully that students were upset with the changes before they were approved, and these changes are discussed privately anyways, so when it came time to vote, you know all the faculty are going to vote together. So it always becomes an embarrassing 2 vs the rest in votes. What a farce. Smoke and mirrors, i say.

2. The university was "concerned" regarding the match rate for the most recent class. They wanted to have our "best interest" at heart. So it seems logical to "advise" the students to fully prepare them for the matching process........ notice where the quotations are? This translated into a new residency-selection advisory program that all students are mandated to attend. Of course, the university will never word it the way I'm about to word it, but this is how it works. You have to meet with an adviser who will look over all your records and tell you which residency you are allowed to apply for. I'm sorry but I'm in the thought camp that believes students should be allowed to follow their dreams and interests and apply to the specialty of their choice. Some may crash and burn, but at least they were allow to have a chance at pursuing that goal. I don't want to spend all of clerkship year trying to decide what I want to do, only to be told that I can't even apply. What BS is that?!?! This is my translation to the first three lines I wrote: The university doesn't give a rats arse about the students but only itself, and to look good to outside perspectives, it needs to raise it's match rates, so they'll shove students into low, uncompetitive residencies by force and achieve their desired numbers.

 

[Suncrusher]

Can they really force you to apply for certain residencies and prevent you from applying to others? This isn't the Uniformed Services University...

 

[runawayclock]

That is quite horrifying... I'm curious about the residency thing too. Are they just pushing you to apply to only non-competitive residencies or do they actually block you?

 

[anfleisch]

I think they could force you by preventing you from getting a good recommendation from the school. But I have heard similar stories from many students at many different schools (similar to not offering a committee letter for a premed). It is hard to really determine if these are isolated to one school or general problems faced by many medical students. In some ways, I would agree with them strongly suggesting that you consider applying to another residency if you are without hope. But I imagine some of these schools could only back the shoe in candidates. I also would agree with this more if they have good advising throughout your 4 years so that you know what is required of you.

 

[zombymush]

So my application has been verified on tuesday. How long before Upstate sends me a secondary invite? I heard they don't screen etc.

 

[FIREitUP]

So my application has been verified on tuesday. How long before Upstate sends me a secondary invite? I heard they don't screen etc.

You should get it soon. Their secondary is very easy, but if you are invited to an interview you must write an essay.

 

[schlieren]

It saddens me a bit that thus far, no other medical student came out to refute AnxiousBoy or say anything good about Upstate. Amen.

 

[HereIbe]

for those of you who are complete, when did you submit your secondary? My letters, fee and secondary were submitted before the end of july (secondary says Supplemental Load Process) but I never saw a complete status or received a complete email. Is it time for me to contact them or is this typical?

 

[Dr Love]

Wow anxiousboy, thanks for the information. That's fairly concerning info.

On another note, how long is it typically from the time everything is submitted until you get an answer about an interview?

 

[Ok2Panic]

It saddens me a bit that thus far, no other medical student came out to refute AnxiousBoy or say anything good about Upstate. Amen.

Well! I just started my first year here, and obviously don't have anything to contribute to the discussion about the residency process or anything like that. It's only been a week or so since we started, so I don't know that anything good I have to say about Upstate would mean much, so I'm keeping silent!

 

[anbuitachi]

Question #2 - Ethical dilemmas occur in medicine. Describe a challenge you have faced in your personal life and how you overcame it.

do you guys think it has to be ethical problem?

 

[wanderer]

Question #2 - Ethical dilemmas occur in medicine. Describe a challenge you have faced in your personal life and how you overcame it.

do you guys think it has to be ethical problem?

I don't. But who knows.

 

[JoyfulMD]

I've heard similarly vague, depressing stories about NYMC. More specific stories would be helpful! Does SUNY upstate not prepare you well for STEP 1 or matching?

.

I was a fairly average applicant to medical school and I did alright in medical school. I had no problems getting interviews at the most competitive programs in the county.

 

[JoyfulMD]

2. The university was "concerned" regarding the match rate for the most recent class. They wanted to have our "best interest" at heart. So it seems logical to "advise" the students to fully prepare them for the matching process........ notice where the quotations are? This translated into a new residency-selection advisory program that all students are mandated to attend. Of course, the university will never word it the way I'm about to word it, but this is how it works. You have to meet with an adviser who will look over all your records and tell you which residency you are allowed to apply for. I'm sorry but I'm in the thought camp that believes students should be allowed to follow their dreams and interests and apply to the specialty of their choice..

Strange - I was under the impression that ERAS sets it up so you can choose to apply to any residency program you want. In addition, you have a pretty big say in who writes your letters. Does Upstate somehow take control of your body and mind, and make you apply for a program that you don't want to?

 

[BigRedder]

There is currently a big controversy about the class that AnxiousBoy was referring to, and honestly that professor has been controversial figure on campus for a while. People either believe in what he does or they don't. Personally, I do. However, he has also been crusading to make 4th year more rigorous, both by pushing for more required basic science electives and making his own course more demanding. Frankly, 4th year has been considered a bit of a vacation for the most part, and no one likes the idea of being forced to do more work than the previous class. This is completely understandable, but I don't think it reflects negatively on the school. On the contrary, I (and others) believe that our experience with his courses improve our clinical reasoning substantially.

Concerning the second part of his first point, these changes were not actually approved by the curriculum committee. The course was previously approved, and he changed it as he saw fit. There are members of the faculty that do not agree with his methods, and voice their opinions.

On the point about "Student's First": it is really just cheerleading by the Dean of Student Affairs. It is not actual policy, so don't let them fool you. However, if we complain loud enough, they usually get around to changing things. You just can't complain about everything...

Regarding the second part of his post, I cannot comment about what specifically they are doing for the 4th year class. However, I can say that the major problem with last year's match (which was quite good overall) was that several people ranked too few programs (ie less than 5) in competitive specialties, without backup specialties (like General Surgery in lieu of Plastics). That is poor decision making. Our assigned advisors write our Dean's letter, and the purpose of advising is to provide realistic goals. If they actually prevent you from applying to the program you want to apply to, please, let us know. If that does not occur, please do us all a favor and temper your hyperbole.

 

[2050vlsb]

for those of you who are complete, when did you submit your secondary? My letters, fee and secondary were submitted before the end of july (secondary says Supplemental Load Process) but I never saw a complete status or received a complete email. Is it time for me to contact them or is this typical?

Bump

I have the exact same thing .. it says they've received my letters, fee and application (same "supplemental load process") .. but no where do I see "complete" and I have received any emails to that effect either. Anyone know whats up? Should i contact them?

 

[AnxiousBoy]

Well, in regard to the responses, yes, I am upset. But that was the point right? How are students feeling about the school? But I got to make my say, so I feel a lot better. I'll make a few quick comment, and I'll stop stirring up this thread.

1. I'm not quite sure what is meant by the course not being approved. It has been, 4th year class has started the new curriculum, and you can find more info at:

http://www.upstate.edu/courseware/casestudy/ms4/ms4instruct/

2. I do not know how the new advisory thing works for real. No one does, it was implemented starting this year, so we'll find out in a year's time. My guess is, they can't legally force you to apply, but I suspect they'll write that you ignored their counsel on the Dean's letter. My bet is, that's not going to sit well with the residency directors.

I'm gonna leave you with this message, sent by the president of the 4th year class to students of all years, president of upstate, all the deans, the course directors, and pretty much everyone. I'd figure I let you hear from someone else's voice.

Dear All,

The Class of 2011 recently raised concerns over the construction of a new
MLC-III curriculum that we felt would detract from our fourth year
internships and thereby interfere with our ability to match into competitive
residencies. While changes were eventually made (albeit 87.8% of 124
student respondents to an online survery are still unhappy about the current
MLC-III curriculum), the Class of 2011 realized that no objective process
exists for students to voice their concerns. Student dissatisfaction with
faculty response to their concerns was highlighted in the recent LCME
survey, and was highlighted again for our class, with 92.6% of the 124
respondents being unhappy with how the faculty responded to our concerns
with MLC-III. We have exhausted all channels available to students, and at
the end realize that none of them were objective, and that none of them took
into account the motto "Students First", which was adopted shortly after our
class started school at Upstate. 79% of those respondents now believe it
wise to abstain from interviewing medical student candidates for the Class
of 2015 because of the inability of the faculty to objectively respond to
student concerns. We consider this action a positive influence on our
school, as it highlights a problem that, if addressed, will enable the
faculty to work hand in hand with students towards common goals. If an
objective process is created, and if our concerns about MLC-III are viewed
in this light, then the Class of 2011 will gladly return to interviewing
students. Importantly, we wish to make clear that all student support
measures, from tutoring/mentoring underclassmen to supporting student
scholarships via the Alumni Foundation, will continue as before. We are
still grateful for our education at Upstate, and hope that this action
further enhances the student experience.

Sincerely,

 

[anfleisch]

I am surprised a student council acted so strongly against the school. But I guess when it comes to that point in medical training, every little thing does directly affect your future. And not just in the way we premeds think that one organic exam has our whole future in the balance. Still, I do not believe that this is a good basis for making a decision for those in the class of 2015. I do believe curriculums were quite different even five years ago from today.

 

[Suncrusher]

It's been over 2 weeks since my "Application status: Complete" disappeared, yet I still see no decision when I log in to their system. Didn't someone say earlier in this thread that when they talked to the admissions office about their application status disappearing, they were told that it meant their application was under review by an admissions officer and they could expect to hear back in about a week?

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Dear All,

The Class of 2011 recently raised concerns over the construction of a new
MLC-III curriculum that we felt would detract from our fourth year
internships and thereby interfere with our ability to match into competitive
residencies. While changes were eventually made (albeit 87.8% of 124
student respondents to an online survery are still unhappy about the current
MLC-III curriculum), the Class of 2011 realized that no objective process
exists for students to voice their concerns. Student dissatisfaction with
faculty response to their concerns was highlighted in the recent LCME
survey, and was highlighted again for our class, with 92.6% of the 124
respondents being unhappy with how the faculty responded to our concerns
with MLC-III. We have exhausted all channels available to students, and at
the end realize that none of them were objective, and that none of them took
into account the motto "Students First", which was adopted shortly after our
class started school at Upstate. 79% of those respondents now believe it
wise to abstain from interviewing medical student candidates for the Class
of 2015 because of the inability of the faculty to objectively respond to
student concerns. We consider this action a positive influence on our
school, as it highlights a problem that, if addressed, will enable the
faculty to work hand in hand with students towards common goals. If an
objective process is created, and if our concerns about MLC-III are viewed
in this light, then the Class of 2011 will gladly return to interviewing
students. Importantly, we wish to make clear that all student support
measures, from tutoring/mentoring underclassmen to supporting student
scholarships via the Alumni Foundation, will continue as before. We are
still grateful for our education at Upstate, and hope that this action
further enhances the student experience.

Sincerely,

Wow, thats an extremely serious stance. I hope it works out for you guys. We need actual information from recent graduates and upperclassmen on schools, rather than the guys who've been there two weeks.

Thank you very much for the info.

 

[BigRedder]

Quickly addressing the most recent points:

1. A few weeks ago one of the faculty members on the EPC discussed the MLC-III situation with me, to get an idea of what the third year class response would be to the fourth year class' rather inflammatory letter. Basically, we support them in spirit but not in action, in other words we will not join them in boycotting but we understand the sentiment. He told me about the issues that some of the faculty had with the class and about the fact that the changes for this year were not specifically approved by the committee. Rather, the committee had suggested that he make course more flexible for those on away rotations. Since students only have to be present for one session, arguably he did. Perhaps he went too far.

2. I'll be seeing my advisor next week for the meeting with the MS-IIs, so I'll ask him what the deal is. He usually only partially bull****s me, so I should be able to get a better answer then.

3. Regarding anfleisch's concern about affecting current applicants, don't worry, it won't affect you. They will find someone to interview. This was more of a symbolic gesture, perhaps misplaced, to communicate the level of their displeasure. It is too bad that admissions has to bear the brunt of it, but the class did not have many options left. Unfortunately Shanley does what he wants.

All in all, I see what he is trying to accomplish, and if I had to choose between boring professors whose lectures haven't changed in decades and someone who is constantly trying to find new ways to help us learn, I'll choose the latter. Even if he is a pain the ass.