* * 2011-2012 Letter of Recommendation Thread!! * *

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Edit: I merged the two threads. -Shyrem

(This thread is for folks applying for 2012 matriculation) to ask questions about letters of recommendation.

Note: most of this is copy pasta from the respective allo thread here.

As always,each thread has a search function you should use first before posting.

LOR Frequently Asked Questions

1. What kinds of letters do I need to apply to DO schools?

1a. But doesn't every school have different letter requirements?

1b. Do I have to have a letter from a DO?
Take a look at ChocolateBear's spreadsheet here.

1c. But do I really really have to get X type of letter? (2 non-science, 1 science, a letter from my PI)


2. I am a non-traditional student and have been out of school for awhile. Can I get around the letter requirements?

3. My school has a medical school admissions committee, and they produce a committee letter. But the letter won't be released until really LATE! (August, September, October). Can I just skip the committee and collect my own letters?
The general wisdom on this topic is that if your school has a committee, USE IT! If you don't, you will be asked why and will need a very good reason. You are circumventing the committee at your own risk.

4. How/when can I submit LORs to AACOMAS?

Unlike the AMCAS procedure, LORs are not submitted to AACOMAS. The only items you should be sending to AACOMAS are your college transcripts. Letters of recommendation are submitted directly to your school.

5. Do I have to know which letters are going to which school when I first submit my AACOMAS application?

6. Is it in my best interest to have my letter writers write different letters for each school?

7. What are letter services such as Interfolio, and why do people use them?
Interfolio and other companies provide secure online letter holding services. You can have your letters uploaded to these services at any time so that you're not scrambling at the last minute (or during the summer!) to get letters into your application. This can be especially beneficial when you are 9 months or so out from your planned application cycle, but know the professor you have NOW will write you a great letter. You can have them write the letter, upload it to a letter service, and then many months later have the letter sent to AACOMAS once the application opens. When you do this, you have the ability to add on both your AACOMAS ID and the Letter ID to the letter. All your letter writer needs to do is upload the letter (or mail it in) on letterhead and with a signature. These sites are secure and they do not allow you to read the letter beforehand.

8. What else about letters do I need to know?
Your letter must be SIGNED, and should be on OFFICIAL LETTERHEAD whenever possible. This is something that holds people up every year. Some schools will even hold up your application because of this.

9. How should I ask someone for a letter of req?
(On this one, I will give CougarMD's advice from the allo thread:)
For each letter writer, I prepared a packet. In the packet I had:
A list of all of my science grades (or non-science grades for a non-science prof)
A copy of my resume
A rough draft of my personal statement
A guide to writing medical school letters (which can be found by googling), a reminder that the letter needed to be signed and on letterhead.

Before handing them this (because who wants all that before they even say yes!) I asked them point blank if they "would feel comfortable writing me a strong letter of recommendation for medical school". Always do this in person!!! If they hesitate...walk away. Seriously. You don't want this person writing your letter.

When they enthusiastically said yes, I pulled the packet out of my backpack and gave it to them.

Because I used Interfolio, I did not need to provide them with my AMCAS ID or Letter ID, but instead told them that they would get an email from Interfolio that evening with instructions on how to upload the letter. Give them a FIRM deadline (2-4 weeks seems to work best) for when you need the letter. Don't ask at the last minute. Don't ask when you think a billion other people will be asking. Do offer to provide them with any other supplementary information they would like. And do give them a thank-you note (and maybe a Starbucks card) when they submit the letter.

10. OMG! My letter writer has not written my letter!!! It has been minutes/hours/days/weeks/months and I'm freaking out!! What do I do!?
First, stop by or email and gently remind them that you need the letter by X date. If this doesn't work, I have given them a premature Thank-You note with a small token, and this seems to light a fire. I recommended this method to someone on SDN last year and it apparently worked like a charm.

If this isn't working....you do the same thing you do whenever something goes awry - find a plan B. Ask someone else...two other people even, just in case this person does not come through. You can't have too many letters. But you can have too few.

11. Do I have to waive my right to see the letters?
No. But if you don't schools might not see them as letters that carry much weight. Waive your right. If you know the person well enough, you should have a pretty good idea of what they are going to write.

12. Can I submit my application without the letters? Say I have an extra LOR that I'd like to send to all my schools, do I have to snail mail to it them all?
You will submit your LORs with your SECONDARIES. You can add a letter at ANY time in Interfolio, and they will distribute it for you.

This is just copy pasta from the allo thread. Please help me make this better and reply to any to which you have a respectable answer to. Thanks!

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Question #4

Unlike the AMCAS procedure, LORs are not submitted to AACOMAS. The only items you should be sending to AACOMAS are your college transcripts. Letters of recommendation are submitted directly to your school.

You might want to update your answer to question #12 :)
 
In my experience, the two biggest rules about LOR's and DO schools are...

1. Get your letters in EARLY. Tell your letter writers they're due a month in advance (they'll still be late).

2. Use Interfolio. It's so convenient and not that expensive. It's awkward to say "Oh hey, can you write me a letter of recommendation...then mail it to 15 schools." With Interfolio they only mail it in once and they're done with it.
 
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Yup, it's that time. Please start here. New threads will be merged here as needed.

You may want to check out previous year's threads as the questions asked tend to be quite similar from year to year and you may find answers more quickly.
 
Can someone explain to me how this process works. Do I ask my letter writers for 15 copies of letters in sealed envelopes, do I give them a list to send the schools, what? I really have no idea how to proceed with this.
 
Lol, 15 sealed letters would be horrible :)

You should use Interfolio, I used it last year and it's incredibly easy! You make an account with Interfolio, have all your writers send the LORs to Interfolio, and once you need to send them out to schools, you pick out which ones you want to send out, and Interfolio sends it as a packet to the school. Really easy! I forgot how much it costs to send it out to each school, but it was a lot cheaper than my ug LOR service.

http://www.interfolio.com/
 
Second the Interfolio suggestion. The fee I had to pay to my undergrad health careers office included the cost of the Interfolio account as well as unlimited letter transmissions. If your school doesn't have that kind of arrangement, I believe electronic and postal mail deliveries are $6 (a little more if you want express shipping).

Interfolio is a fantastic way to collect and store LORs as well as other items like your CV. I'm planning to renew my account and pay out of pocket because it really is worth it.
 
I agree with the inferfolio suggestion. My school offerS a similar service.

On another note, (just to be 100% clear) LORs are sent with secondaries, correct? So assuming we send the primary in June 1, earliest we'd need to turn in LORs is the 3rd week of July?
 
I agree with the inferfolio suggestion. My school offerS a similar service.

On another note, (just to be 100% clear) LORs are sent with secondaries, correct? So assuming we send the primary in June 1, earliest we'd need to turn in LORs is the 3rd week of July?

Yes...I wouldn't send any LORs to a school until you've received their secondary application (or they been otherwise requested). Depending on when you submit your AACOMAS and how long it takes for it to be verified and transmitted, you might not need your letters until mid-July. However, I wouldn't tell your letter writers that :) With all but one of my letters, the writer waited until the week before the deadline I gave them and it really cut it close.
 
Hey guys, I'm applying D.O. this year and had a question from reading these posts...

So the LORs aren't sent to AACOMAS, correct? I have an Interfolio account and I would just send it to the D.O. schools that I am applying to (only if i get a secondary from them)?
 
Hey guys, I'm applying D.O. this year and had a question from reading these posts...

So the LORs aren't sent to AACOMAS, correct? I have an Interfolio account and I would just send it to the D.O. schools that I am applying to (only if i get a secondary from them)?

Correct...DO NOT send your LORs to AACOMAS. When you receive a secondary application, log in to Interfolio and create a delivery for the school.

I sent my LORs as soon as the secondary application appeared in my e-mail inbox. Some schools are not capable of receiving an electronic delivery and so they have to be sent via postal mail. This can take some time, so I wanted to get those letters out right away. Letters sent electronically are delivered the same day if you order before 2 pm EST (or was it noon?).
 
I took a couple of smaller classes and got to know the professors quite well on a one on one basis. When I go to ask for a letter of recommendation, what should I bring? There were about 15 people in my class so the professor knows me quite well. Does that change anything?
 
Yes...I wouldn't send any LORs to a school until you've received their secondary application (or they been otherwise requested). Depending on when you submit your AACOMAS and how long it takes for it to be verified and transmitted, you might not need your letters until mid-July. However, I wouldn't tell your letter writers that :) With all but one of my letters, the writer waited until the week before the deadline I gave them and it really cut it close.

Thanks.
 
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Is it a bad thing if your LORs are the same from last year's cycle? I have some really good letters that I would like to use again. I didn't submit them to all the schools last year but to the schools I did send them too, will it look bad? I can probably get one new sci one but I know it won't be as good as the one I have (I knew the professor for a while took 4 classes with her). What do you think?
 
In that spreadsheet, for PCOM, it says "Deans letter required" - what is that? same as committee letter?
 
In that spreadsheet, for PCOM, it says "Deans letter required" - what is that? same as committee letter?

PCOM requires a letter from the premedical committee/advisor from your degree-granting undergrad college, regardless of your major or when you graduated. If, for whatever reason, you cannot get a letter from the committee then you have to get a letter from your academic advisor or the dean of your degree-granting college.

http://www.pcom.edu/Admissions/adm_app_process/adm_DO/adm_do.html
 
I got that spreadsheet from one of the super-users here, I can't remember which one. If you really want to know, just call them up or shoot them an email.
 
I have a question about interfolio. Say, for example, I want to submit 3 LOR's to one school, would that cost just $6 or $18?
 
would a letter from a kinesiology professor who I took human physiology with be considered a science LOR?
 
I have a question about interfolio. Say, for example, I want to submit 3 LOR's to one school, would that cost just $6 or $18?

Just $6 as the delivery fee includes as many documents as you want. However, if you are sending a paper delivery and the total page count is more than 20 pages, you will be charged an extra $1 per page.
 
Just $6 as the delivery fee includes as many documents as you want. However, if you are sending a paper delivery and the total page count is more than 20 pages, you will be charged an extra $1 per page.

Oh that's not bad at all. Thanks!
 
any1 have the referee forms for MSUCOM??

i was hoping to give them early to my referees.
 
Hey guys I was wondering if a non-science LOR is required? I only ask because after looking at some of the LOR requirements for some of the DO schools, many of them state that they just require two LORs and I'm not sure if they're looking for any specific LORs. Thanks.
 
I have a question regarding my science LOR. I was planning on getting it from my orgo teacher. I took classes from her my senior year, which was a year ago. During this time, I took an independent study lab because of my clinicals in the afternoon so I got to know her pretty well. But I haven't had any contact with her since I graduated (I now realize I should have just gotten the letter at the end of my senior year).

I'm pretty sure she will still remember me, but probably not that well. I haven't taken any other science courses since then and not being a science major I don't really have any other professors I can get a science letter from. Do you think I should just give her my resume, transcript, PS, etc. and ask if she feels like she can write a strong LOR.

My only other option would be to get my pre-health adviser to write one. I know normally that would be the best option, but I went to a small private school and I don't know how much experience he really has with pre-med advising so I didn't go to him all that much and he didn't get to know me as well as my orgo teacher. He said he would write a LOR for me, but I'm just afraid it would be to generic.

What do you all think?
 
I'm shadowing a trauma surgeon right now and I want to ask him for a LOR. The problem is that I only shadowed him 3-4 times within the past month or two. Whenever i go shadow him, I would follow him for rounds and then he sends me off to whomever has a case to do so i can watch surgeries while he does clinic. Sometimes he walks in on the surgery and helps but most of the time he dosen't since he's really busy. So is it still wise to ask him for a LOR or the residents/interns that I observed in the OR?
 
Maybe the residents/interns can write the letter, and then the surgeon can modify/add to it and co-sign it?
 
Will schools look at other letters in addition to those that are required? I am getting a letter from my University President and want to make sure they are going to read it...
 
hey guys,

how much of a negative impact wud be upon my application if i submit a bad (avg to bad) LOR?

what i mean by that is an LOR that pretty much states:

[NAME] took [courses (2)] with me in [dated]. her grades were [grades].
And I guess there'd be other minor comments on my grade. I'll ask the respective prof to also include bit of the course info, if possible.

I can't find science LORS. finally a prof replied, but I got just 75 in her course :( and she said the most she could say would be a couple of lines (wht i mentioned above).

Really, how bad of an impact wud this have? There is another letter that my TA asked me to write myself, and she'll check it out and sign it. So I guess there I could personalize it a bit more, as I did both research proposal in her class and an oral presentation, in which I got a pretty good grade.

And thirdly I have a physician LOR; hopefully it is a strong one. She's amazing, and I think she could comment a lot on my character.

So, yes, I would have a professional LOR which would be detailed. But my academics ones....:thumbdown: except for the one from my TA.

what impact does a bad LOR hav on ur app?


Oh, and I need a template, as my TA asked me to write a general letter and show it to her. any tips?
 
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hey guys,

how much of a negative impact wud be upon my application if i submit a bad (avg to bad) LOR?

what i mean by that is an LOR that pretty much states:

[NAME] took [courses (2)] with me in [dated]. her grades were [grades].
And I guess there'd be other minor comments on my grade. I'll ask the respective prof to also include bit of the course info, if possible.

I can't find science LORS. finally a prof replied, but I got just 75 in her course :( and she said the most she could say would be a couple of lines (wht i mentioned above).

Really, how bad of an impact wud this have? There is another letter that my TA asked me to write myself, and she'll check it out and sign it. So I guess there I could personalize it a bit more, as I did both research proposal in her class and an oral presentation, in which I got a pretty good grade.

And thirdly I have a physician LOR; hopefully it is a strong one. She's amazing, and I think she could comment a lot on my character.

So, yes, I would have a professional LOR which would be detailed. But my academics ones....:thumbdown: except for the one from my TA.

what impact does a bad LOR hav on ur app?


Oh, and I need a template, as my TA asked me to write a general letter and show it to her. any tips?

from what I have heard, they probably won't make you, but they can most certainly break you.
 
I wont be applying until next June but plan on shadowing a couple DOs/MDs this summer. So should I have them write a LOR right after I shadow? If I wait until June-ish it seems like they wont even remember me but if I ask this fall what do they do with the letters..?
 
I wont be applying until next June but plan on shadowing a couple DOs/MDs this summer. So should I have them write a LOR right after I shadow? If I wait until June-ish it seems like they wont even remember me but if I ask this fall what do they do with the letters..?

I would definately ask them after you shadow, I have had a couple of LOR's in my file for a couple of years. Just make sure you get the most out of the experience while you can:)
 
I apologize if this issue has been addressed before, but what do ya'll think about asking a DO for a letter of rec after shadowing him only a day? And if I do ask him for a LOR, should I ask by writing him a letter (via snail mail) after the shadowing is over? I am going to be shadowing on monday from 8:30 until 3pm (I have to leave early for science conference), and I have a feeling he'll be in the middle of seeing patients when I'm going to be heading out at 3pm...so there probably isn't a good "time" to ask, right?

I don't have time to do more continous shadowing with this doctor because I work full time. I'm kinda freaking out about the physician LOR b/c I have only shadowed physical therapists before this.

I really really really appreciate any advice!!
 
Some posters on this forum report only shadowing docs for as little as a couple hours and getting a letter. Others, like me, have no luck. I shadowed one doc for 8 hours and another for 16 hours and have no letter due to both saying they do not know me well enough, which is understandable.
 
the way i got my DO letter was i just said straight up when i called the office that i needed to shadow for a letter so that i can apply to school. if you can find a younger doc who still has the application process somewhat fresh in their mind they'll be more likely to help you.
 
Totally just depends on the doctor. Really I would've mentioned your goal of getting a LOR when setting up the shadowing, but you may have done that. If not then maybe just bring that up first thing in the morning, something like, "Thank you again for allowing me to spend some time shadowing you. Ultimately I would like to request a letter of rec from you so let me what you need from me in terms of background info and time commitment.".

Something to let him know you are looking for a letter. Then the balls in his court as to whether he'll do one after that one time or if he'd like you to come back.

My DO letter came after I spent one day in the ER with him followed by an hour or two of us meeting at a coffee shop just to talk so he could get to know me enough to write a letter.
 
That's crazy... I shadowed an ER DO for about 2 months, and racked up probably close to 50 hours. He was the one who originally brought up writing me a letter. I can't imagine a good letter comes from a half a day of shadowing. Seems really unethical and fake, but that's just me.
 
That's crazy... I shadowed an ER DO for about 2 months, and racked up probably close to 50 hours. He was the one who originally brought up writing me a letter. I can't imagine a good letter comes from a half a day of shadowing. Seems really unethical and fake, but that's just me.

I agree that it does seem hard to imagine a good letter can come from a few hours shadowing. As far as it being unethical, I think it a little unfair that most DO schools require a DO or Physician LOR. To me, I think the requirement is a sort of weed out process to see who really wants to apply.
 
I agree that it does seem hard to imagine a good letter can come from a few hours shadowing. As far as it being unethical, I think it a little unfair that most DO schools require a DO or Physician LOR. To me, I think the requirement is a sort of weed out process to see who really wants to apply.

I have to respectfully disagree. What DO schools are doing is try to weed out the students who apply osteopathic as a safety to allopathic -- which seems perfectly reasonable.

The same reason why every program will probably ask "Why DO?". I can't speak on behalf of any other school, but my BS/DO program now allows letters from MDs and DOs (which I think is ridiculous). I can't imagine any MD school accepting a DO letter instead of an MD letter.
 
That's crazy... I shadowed an ER DO for about 2 months, and racked up probably close to 50 hours. He was the one who originally brought up writing me a letter. I can't imagine a good letter comes from a half a day of shadowing. Seems really unethical and fake, but that's just me.
my letter was actually really good and he let me read it to make sure it was what i was looking for. like i said, the younger docs still have all the hoops one jumps through just to get into med school fresher in their head.
 
my letter was actually really good and he let me read it to make sure it was what i was looking for. like i said, the younger docs still have all the hoops one jumps through just to get into med school fresher in their head.

Maybe I just have a really strong moral conscience, but hoops are there for a reason... I understand the trials and tribulations of applying -- but there's a reason for shadowing and proof of such exposure is the letter. No adcom can blatantly "prove" you only shadowed for a day, but they can probably tell a crap letter from a short lived stint to a true, meaningful letter (well, not in some cases, like yours).

I guess the only caveat to such is if a physician you shadowed prior could not write you a letter from some circumstances or whatever.... But still. Immoral and kind of like cheating in my book, but my opinion doesn't matter. Just my two cents.
 
Maybe I just have a really strong moral conscience, but hoops are there for a reason... I understand the trials and tribulations of applying -- but there's a reason for shadowing and proof of such exposure is the letter. No adcom can blatantly "prove" you only shadowed for a day, but they can probably tell a crap letter from a short lived stint to a true, meaningful letter (well, not in some cases, like yours).

I guess the only caveat to such is if a physician you shadowed prior could not write you a letter from some circumstances or whatever.... But still. Immoral and kind of like cheating in my book, but my opinion doesn't matter. Just my two cents.
haha it says on my primary app and on most secondaries i only shadowed him for a day. it's not as serious as you think it is. it just needs to be done.
 
haha it says on my primary app and on most secondaries i only shadowed him for a day. it's not as serious as you think it is. it just needs to be done.

Hmm, I guess so. I mean, I kind of avoided the whole medical school application process altogether, but for my BS/DO they required a letter and shadowing. I guess they didn't ask for how long (even though it was on my CV). I assume plenty of students get family/friend connections to do letters as well.

I was actually interested in shadowing before I applied to the programs and realized I may have needed letters.

On another note, do schools/jobs/residencies have an "expiration" (for lack of a better term) date of sorts for letters?
 
Hmm, I guess so. I mean, I kind of avoided the whole medical school application process altogether, but for my BS/DO they required a letter and shadowing. I guess they didn't ask for how long (even though it was on my CV). I assume plenty of students get family/friend connections to do letters as well.

I was actually interested in shadowing before I applied to the programs and realized I may have needed letters.

On another note, do schools/jobs/residencies have an "expiration" (for lack of a better term) date of sorts for letters?

ah, i see.


i don't know if there is a defined expiration of LORs, but obviously the more recent the better. i think the important thing is that the LOR is an accurate depiction of the applicant at the time of submission.

someone else might be able to chime in with more perspective on the expiration of LORs.
 
That's crazy... I shadowed an ER DO for about 2 months, and racked up probably close to 50 hours. He was the one who originally brought up writing me a letter. I can't imagine a good letter comes from a half a day of shadowing. Seems really unethical and fake, but that's just me.

I disagree. Depends on the situation and how that day is spent. I spent a good day with an ER doc when I was applying and another couple hours just us talking and I think that's plenty of time for someone to get a decent idea of who you are and what your future plans are.

You could spend 80 hours shadowing a doc yet he knows next to nothing about you as an applicant because nothing was ever talked about and all you did was watched and asked the occasional question. I think someone would be able to write a much stronger letter even after just a couple hours of good conversation compared to many hours of just shadowing if nothing of substance was talked about.

If you think half a day of shadowing is not ok then think about what med schools have to go on to make their decision about you.... your statement, app, and then maybe an hour of actual personal interaction.
 
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