3.7 GPA, 37 MCAT, and a Story

[tenniseagle92]

Hey guys!

Thanks for taking the time to read my information.

Personal

Gender: Male
Age: 21
State: MA
University: Top 30 School in Boston, MA

Academics

Major: Biology
GPA: 3.72 cGPA, 3.74 sGPA
MCAT: 37 (11 PS, 13 VR, 13 BS)
Honors Program Student

Clinical Experience and Research

100 hours of hospital volunteer work
1 year Epidemiology Research
1 semester Biochemistry Research
1 year volunteer at LGBT Health center as phone operator

Extracurricular Activities

Resident Assistant (1 Year experience)
President of Pre-Medical Society (4 years involvement, 1 year president)
Co-President of Honors Program Student Executive Board (4 year involvement, 1 year president)
Member of Splash Executive Board (1 year experience - organization focused on education of disadvantaged students)
Member of LGBT Student Organization (1 year experience)
1 year Volunteer work with inner city youth

Additional Information

Right as I came to college, my stepfather left my mother and gambled away all of the college savings I had. I spent my entire freshman year shuttling between my home and school, trying to comfort my mother and grapple with what had happened. I tried my hardest in school, but I finished freshman year with a GPA of around 3.33 (cGPA and sGPA - I basically got all B+s with two Bs and some As). Since then, I turned my life around, came out of the closet, and dove into my academics. I honed my passions for medicine, LGBT rights, and education. I have gotten a GPA of 3.83 or above every semester since my freshman year, and I continue to work as hard as possible.

School List

Mt. Sinai
NYU
Tufts
BU
Cornell
GW
Georgetown
Albert Einstein
USC
Harvard (I have affiliations with a professor there, but don't have any expectations)

My question is, what schools would be good for me to apply to? What can I do in the next two years to raise my chances of getting into a school that's a great fit for me? I don't care much about prestige, I more-so just want to find a school that will help me become the best doctor possible. If relevant, I am taking a gap year once I graduate (I'm a rising senior) and spending it working in a cardiology lab at a major Boston hospital.

What do you guys think?

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[tenniseagle92]

Also, I should note that is not a complete list of schools I plan to apply to...it's just a list of schools that have caught my eye.

 

[tenniseagle92]

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[Goro]

Great story, Ecs and numbers. Aim high!


My suggested list:
U MA
Mt. Sinai
NYU
Tufts
BU
Cornell
Albert Einstein
USC
Harvard
Stanford
Duke
Baylor
U Rochester
Yale
Dartmouth
U MI
Northwestern
U Chicago
ALL schools in PA
Vanderbilt
Emory
U CT (maybe)
Wash U
Quinnipac

 

[tenniseagle92]

Thanks Goro!

That list seems like it has a lot of reaches though - would my GPA be suitable?

My school says the average cGPA and sGPA of accepted M.D. students from our school is 3.6 and 3.5 respectively, but we also don't get an incredible amount of kids into great schools every year.

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks Goro!

That list seems like it has a lot of reaches though - would my GPA be suitable?

My school says the average cGPA and sGPA of accepted M.D. students from our school is 3.6 and 3.5 respectively, but we also don't get an incredible amount of kids into great schools every year.

You have a great MCAT.

 

[tenniseagle92]

Thank you! But will that really matter that much? I know the MCAT is really important, but it's still just a test.

 

[NavyDoc23]

The MCAT is very important. You will have many more exams throughout your med school and residency career, including USMLE 1, 2, 3. It shows you know your stuff well and you test very well. You GPA is still very good too. Like Goro suggested, aim high. You have a great story along with your stats.

 

[tenniseagle92]

Thanks again! I know my MCAT score is very good (particularly the total), but would the 11 PS hold me back from any top, top tier schools? I know an 11 is very good and honestly I'm thrilled with it, but some schools (WashU, Harvard, Sinai) have their median PS scores at like a 13 (per the MSAR).

 

[tenniseagle92]

Any other advice? I appreciate it all!

 

[kmp0410]

Thanks again! I know my MCAT score is very good (particularly the total), but would the 11 PS hold me back from any top, top tier schools? I know an 11 is very good and honestly I'm thrilled with it, but some schools (WashU, Harvard, Sinai) have their median PS scores at like a 13 (per the MSAR).

,
A 37 is a great score no matter the break down. If anything, your breakdown is on the better side. I've heard off hand that PS is probably weighed the least (this could be completely off base though).

You should be competitive at anywhere you apply, just know that top schools can be a big crap shoot so apply to some mid tiers as well. I'm not that familiar with the schools in that area, but I'm sure you can find some.

 

[tenniseagle92]

Thank you very much! I'm still a little concerned my GPA is so far below a lot of what the MSAR says is the school's median, so I'm hesitant to spend money applying to top tier schools. Do you really think I'd have a shot? Obviously it's crapshoot, but it wouldn't be a waste of money?

 

[Goro]

Jeeze, Eagle, we gotta work on that self-esteem! 3.7 vs 3.8/3.9 is not a lot of difference. So, yes, I think you have a helluva shot.

Thank you very much! I'm still a little concerned my GPA is so far below a lot of what the MSAR says is the school's median, so I'm hesitant to spend money applying to top tier schools. Do you really think I'd have a shot? Obviously it's crapshoot, but it wouldn't be a waste of money?

 

[sakabato93]

Thank you! But will that really matter that much? I know the MCAT is really important, but it's still just a test.

MCAT is very important because its an indication of how smart you are. Gotta be smart to be a doctor!

Anywho, just make sure you can effectively convey why you want to be a doctor, and I think that you have a a GREAT chance at any mid-mid/high tier schools! You also have a good chance at the top schools!

 

[tenniseagle92]

Thank you very much! Does anyone else have any advice or suggestions of schools?

 

[Underdog2013]

Also just FYI to possibly give you a small confidence boost (your numbers are great either way). Those averages you see in the MSAR are the average accepted schools always accept more than they matriculate, because people turn down the offers and go elsewhere, so the school is sure to have a full class. So for example let's Boston accepted 20% more than their class size totaling 50 extra acceptances 30 of them had 4.0s and 38s and were accepted to pretty much every school they applied to, but they decide not to go to Boston because they want to stay at home. They're driving the acceptance stats up for multiple schools. The matriculation stats are generally surprisingly lower. But honestly you have nothing to fear, you can get in anywhere you want!

 

[iWillOneDay]

Also just FYI to possibly give you a small confidence boost (your numbers are great either way). Those averages you see in the MSAR are the average accepted schools always accept more than they matriculate, because people turn down the offers and go elsewhere, so the school is sure to have a full class. So for example let's Boston accepted 20% more than their class size totaling 50 extra acceptances 30 of them had 4.0s and 38s and were accepted to pretty much every school they applied to, but they decide not to go to Boston because they want to stay at home. They're driving the acceptance stats up for multiple schools. The matriculation stats are generally surprisingly lower. But honestly you have nothing to fear, you can get in anywhere you want!

Don't listen to this guy...

 

[Entadus]

Don't listen to this guy...

Why not? His reasoning is correct. Accepted Avg GPA is not the same as Matriculant Avg GPA

 

[tenniseagle92]

Hey everyone! I just applied with this school list; what are your thoughts on the list?

I got a 4.0 both semesters senior year, so I ended up with a 3.74 sGPA and 3.76 cGPA. Like I mentioned before, I had a rough freshman year due to family problems; my GPAs not including sophomore year are a 3.89 sGPA and 3.90 cGPA.

My MCAT was 11 PS/13 VR/13 BS/37 Total

Here is the list:

Albert Einstein
BU
Columbia
UCLA (OOS)
UCSF (OOS)
UCSD (OOS)
Duke
George Washington
Georgetown (went to a Jesuit university)
Harvard
USC
Mt. Sinai
Weill Cornell
NYU
Northwestern
UChicago Pritzker
UPenn
Quinnipiac
Stanford
Temple
UMiami
Tufts
Tulane
UMass
Vanderbilt
Yale
Emory
Johns Hopkins

All advice is appreciated! Thanks in advance .

 

[Ace-Co-A]

MCAT is very important because its an indication of how smart you are.

lolwut

 

[gyngyn]

Good list. I'd delete the George's (unless you really want to attend Gtown) and Netter, otherwise, excellent.

Do you speak Spanish? It really helps for CA.

 

[tenniseagle92]

Good list. I'd delete the George's (unless you really want to attend Gtown) and Netter, otherwise, excellent.

Do you speak Spanish? It really helps for CA.

I am semi-fluent in Spanish. One of my LORs is from a Spanish professor in which she discusses my level of proficiency. I also worked in a strictly Spanish-speaking environment for a summer.

 

[tenniseagle92]

I also didn't know if mentioning the fact that I'm LGBT would hurt me in the application, so I only mentioned it in the context of my ECs/relevant clinical experience (Sexual health mentor, undergrad LGBT student organization, etc.). Will that be okay or do you think it might skew some schools away?

 

[gyngyn]

I also didn't know if mentioning the fact that I'm LGBT would hurt me in the application, so I only mentioned it in the context of my ECs/relevant clinical experience (Sexual health mentor, undergrad LGBT student organization, etc.). Will that be okay or do you think it might skew some schools away?

In my experience it will only help.

 

[sakabato93]

lolwut

Got a problem with what I said?

As for the OP, the sky is the limit. Your numbers are great and your ECs are good.

 

[el_duderino]

I think you have a reasonable shot just about anywhere, with that monster MCAT, research experience, big upward trend, and strong history of leadership. Good luck.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Got a problem with what I said?

I do. MCAT score =/= intelligence, unless you're defining intelligence in a strange way.

 

[masaraksh]

I'd add UVA and Case Western.

Solid schools.

 

[tenniseagle92]

I'd add UVA and Case Western.

Solid schools.

Yeah, I was considering adding both. I'm footing the bill for my apps myself (been financially independent of my family since my freshman year of college), so I am trying to avoid huge expenses. I didn't qualify for FAP because even though I don't get money from my parents, I'm still tied to them (had the same issue with financial aid in college).

Thanks to everyone for the advice and kind words, I really appreciate it.

 

[sakabato93]

I do. MCAT score =/= intelligence, unless you're defining intelligence in a strange way.

I never made any fleeting declaration that the MCAT is the end-all-be-all most perfect indication of a person's true intelligence. But, smart people tend to do well on the MCAT. Most people that get high scores on the MCAT tend to be pretty smart. The two are co-related. I don't know why you are denying that. Deal with it.

 

[Pdoc387]

Hope you get in!

 

[el_duderino]

I never made any fleeting declaration that the MCAT is the end-all-be-all most perfect indication of a person's true intelligence. But, smart people tend to do well on the MCAT. Most people that get high scores on the MCAT tend to be pretty smart. The two are co-related. I don't know why you are denying that. Deal with it.

This is getting pretty offtopic, but the MCAT is really a measure of 3 very different things in my mind:

1) How well you've retained, and can apply, basic science information
2) That you can perform under moderate pressure without folding
3) How good you are at tests

You can't do well on the MCAT without being pretty good at all 3 of these. All the test-taking ability in the world won't help you if you crack under pressure or just don't know the material. On the other hand, you can know the material very well and still end up with a 23 if you're just not good at standardized tests.

 

[tenniseagle92]

Hope you get in!

Thanks man, wishing you luck as well.

 

[gettheleadout]

This is getting pretty offtopic, but the MCAT is really a measure of 3 very different things in my mind:

1) How well you've retained, and can apply, basic science information
2) That you can perform under moderate pressure without folding
3) How good you are at tests

You can't do well on the MCAT without being pretty good at all 3 of these. All the test-taking ability in the world won't help you if you crack under pressure or just don't know the material. On the other hand, you can know the material very well and still end up with a 23 if you're just not good at standardized tests.

As a comment on this I would interpret (1) and (3) as being representative of memory and reasoning/critical thinking ability, and (2) as possibly representative of emotional intelligence. We can specify what skills the MCAT is testing but it definitely seems to be (at least indirectly) a measure of "intelligence" (however defined) to a pretty good degree.

 

[tenniseagle92]

So I think I'm going to forego completing secondaries for Quinnipiac and George Washington. I'm also going to add 2 of the following: UVA, UMich, Case Western, and UPitt.

Do you guys think I'll have enough safeties if I take QU and GW off the list? Also any advice on which two of those four to pick? Thanks again!

 

[gyngyn]

So I think I'm going to forego completing secondaries for Quinnipiac and George Washington. I'm also going to add 2 of the following: UVA, UMich, Case Western, and UPitt.

Do you guys think I'll have enough safeties if I take QU and GW off the list? Also any advice on which two of those four to pick? Thanks again!

Case and UVA are actually better interview odds for you than Netter and GW.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

I never made any fleeting declaration that the MCAT is the end-all-be-all most perfect indication of a person's true intelligence. But, smart people tend to do well on the MCAT. Most people that get high scores on the MCAT tend to be pretty smart. The two are co-related. I don't know why you are denying that. Deal with it.

My response to this has been anticipated in part by jonnythan's post (see below). In his/her post, jonnythan identifies the complex set of skills one must have to score well on the MCAT. This list is probably not exhaustive, and I might take a moment to argue that one or two criteria were restated or changed entirely. Nonetheless, it points out that more than one skill is required for the MCAT, and that we cannot attribute MCAT performance solely to the intelligence of the student.

My principal objection to equating or strongly relating MCAT score with 'intelligence' will be seen in the following inference: if it is always true that a higher MCAT score corresponds to a keener intellect, then we must say that someone with a higher MCAT score (let's say a 34) is smarter than someone with a lower MCAT score (let's say a 31), right? I don't think you'll be able to answer this question in the affirmative. If you can make yourself do it, though, I request that you account for the following:

(1) MCAT scores vary from day-to-day. For example, Kim might score 34 one day, 33 the next, and 32 the day after. Which score is most representative of her intelligence? Is she smarter the first day (with her 34) than the third (with her 32)?

(2) Test scores vary depending on uncontrollable variables (the person might have a fever, her father might have died the night before, her untimely boyfriend proposed that morning, etc.)

(3) Test scores depend on the resources available to the individual (practice tests, books/information, problem sets, previous coursework, prep class, etc.)

I could go on. The basic message I hope to convey is that there are a variety of factors that contribute to test performance that are not related to the person's intelligence. By the way, I'm not arguing that the MCAT is useless or that intelligence is not a factor in MCAT performance, just that intelligence cannot be judged only by the number of questions you get right on an exam. I look forward to seeing your response.

This is getting pretty offtopic, but the MCAT is really a measure of 3 very different things in my mind:

1) How well you've retained, and can apply, basic science information
2) That you can perform under moderate pressure without folding
3) How good you are at tests

You can't do well on the MCAT without being pretty good at all 3 of these. All the test-taking ability in the world won't help you if you crack under pressure or just don't know the material. On the other hand, you can know the material very well and still end up with a 23 if you're just not good at standardized tests.

As a comment on this I would interpret (1) and (3) as being representative of memory and reasoning/critical thinking ability, and (2) as possibly representative of emotional intelligence. We can specify what skills the MCAT is testing but it definitely seems to be (at least indirectly) a measure of "intelligence" (however defined) to a pretty good degree.

Hello @gettheleadout . I am interested in the bolded part of your quote. It seems to me that the discussion about what the MCAT tests comes back to the definition of intelligence. As you have laid out, several of the criteria for MCAT performance listed by jonnythan could be connected to different aspects of intelligence. How do you define intelligence? (As I recall, you were a psychology major in college - you will, of course, correct me if I'm mistaken - so I believe you are better positioned than I to discuss this.)

I apologize for continuing the off-topic discussion. I do think it is an interesting one, though.

 

[sakabato93]

I could go on. The basic message I hope to convey is that there are a variety of factors that contribute to test performance that are not related to the person's intelligence. By the way, I'm not arguing that the MCAT is useless or that intelligence is not a factor in MCAT performance, just that intelligence cannot be judged only by the number of questions you get right on an exam. I look forward to seeing your response.

To be honest, I don't think this is a conversation that needs to be had anyway, especially on this specific thread. But I don't disagree with you.

Like I said, I'm not claiming that the MCAT is a flawless indicator of intelligence, or anything like that. My argument is that there is a co-relation between intelligence and your MCAT score.

I think we can all agree in saying that people who get good scores are generally smart people - not necessarily in terms of pure intelligence (whatever that may be), however. But I do believe that stating that someone who gets a 34 on his MCAT is not as intelligent as someone who gets a 38 based solely on the MCAT score is fairly reckless.

I do think you are over-reacting to/over-analyzing what I've been saying. I agree with what you are saying, and I realize that my first few posts weren't really the most eloquent (mainly because I didn't expect this to happen) or even very super serious. This seems like miscommunication/misintepretation rather than actual disagreement.

 

[gettheleadout]

Hello @gettheleadout . I am interested in the bolded part of your quote. It seems to me that the discussion about what the MCAT tests comes back to the definition of intelligence. As you have laid out, several of the criteria for MCAT performance listed by jonnythan could be connected to different aspects of intelligence. How do you define intelligence? (As I recall, you were a psychology major in college - you will, of course, correct me if I'm mistaken - so I believe you are better positioned than I to discuss this.)

I apologize for continuing the off-topic discussion. I do think it is an interesting one, though.

I also think this is an interesting discussion to be had, would you mind if we continued in a separate thread? I'll make a thread later in the MCAT forum with my thoughts and open questions and tag you in the OP if that's cool with you.

 

[tenniseagle92]

Last question I have is in regard to shadowing - I've done shadowing (about 30-40 hours), but I didn't include it in my AMCAS application because of the other clinical experiences I have had. I have a LOR from a physician, but should I include the fact that I shadowed in my secondaries?

 

[snowflakes]

Last question I have is in regard to shadowing - I've done shadowing (about 30-40 hours), but I didn't include it in my AMCAS application because of the other clinical experiences I have had. I have a LOR from a physician, but should I include the fact that I shadowed in my secondaries?

Yes shadowing is very important so please definitely include it in your secondaries.

 

[capnncrunch]

Shadowing, I believe, tells ADCOMs you actually watched a physician work from all aspects and still show interest in medicine. Maybe if your clinical experience involved direct interaction with several physicians could you ignore shadowing.

 

[tenniseagle92]

Shadowing, I believe, tells ADCOMs you actually watched a physician work from all aspects and still show interest in medicine. Maybe if your clinical experience involved direct interaction with several physicians could you ignore shadowing.

Yeah, I'm happy to bring it up in secondaries. To be honest, shadowing just played a much less significant role in my pre-medical experience than the other 15 activities that I listed did.

 

[capnncrunch]

Yeah, I'm happy to bring it up in secondaries. To be honest, shadowing just played a much less significant role in my pre-medical experience than the other 15 activities that I listed did.

You can always combine experiences. I did it several times and only have like 10 activities.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

I also think this is an interesting discussion to be had, would you mind if we continued in a separate thread? I'll make a thread later in the MCAT forum with my thoughts and open questions and tag you in the OP if that's cool with you.

I agree. A new thread seems appropriate.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

To be honest, I don't think this is a conversation that needs to be had anyway, especially on this specific thread. But I don't disagree with you.

Like I said, I'm not claiming that the MCAT is a flawless indicator of intelligence, or anything like that. My argument is that there is a co-relation between intelligence and your MCAT score.

I think we can all agree in saying that people who get good scores are generally smart people - not necessarily in terms of pure intelligence (whatever that may be), however. But I do believe that stating that someone who gets a 34 on his MCAT is not as intelligent as someone who gets a 38 based solely on the MCAT score is fairly reckless.

I do think you are over-reacting to/over-analyzing what I've been saying. I agree with what you are saying, and I realize that my first few posts weren't really the most eloquent (mainly because I didn't expect this to happen) or even very super serious. This seems like miscommunication/misintepretation rather than actual disagreement.

Let's continue the conversation in the new thread to be made by gettheleadout, yes? We can try to iron out the miscommunication there.