31 MCAT (10 PS, 9V, 12 BS), 3.8 overall, 3.6 science

[coldcase331]

EC:

• Started a social fraternity and held an executive position (treasure) for 3 years
  • Held other minor positions as well (scholarship, rush, philanthropy)
  • 80 volunteer hours associated with organization community service events
• 1 year of research
• Worked full time over the summers to help pay for my rent during the year (manager at Papa John's, 40 hrs/week)
• Member of AED (pre-med society)
• 160 shadow hours (4 different specialists)
• Joined program where we teach chess to kids in underprivileged schools for 2 years so far (150 volunteer hours to date, more to come before AMCAS submission)

What are my chances? I'm planning on applying to schools mainly in the southeast, but I'll be open to any suggestions for schools outside the region.

Edit: I'm a Georgia resident. Currently attending the University of Alabama

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[Komorebi2]

1. Do you have any clinical experience (other than shadowing)? No clinical experience looks really bad on an application. AdComs will wonder how do you know you want to work with the sick and dying if you have never worked with such patients before?

If you do have clinical experience:
2. You will probably need to broaden your search to schools beyond the southeast to have the best shot at an acceptance.
3. You should get the MSAR to find schools that have numbers close to yours. Start with the school(s) in your state, then look at the schools in the SE. Then move out to schools in the rest of the country if you need to add more schools where you are competitive.

If you don't have clinical experience:
4. With only a few months left before the application, this is probably not your year to apply. It'd be very hard to get enough meaningful clinical experience in before June.

 

[coldcase331]

If you don't have clinical experience:
4. With only a few months left before the application, this is probably not your year to apply. It'd be very hard to get enough meaningful clinical experience in before June.

I don't think that is necessarily true. While I don't have the exact definition of clinical hours, I believe that my shadowing experiences give enough to show that I'm committed to the field of medicine (It's one of my most meaningful experiences on my AMCAS and some of my experiences are in my personal statement). I'm not aiming for a top school by any means, but do you really think I shouldn't apply anywhere with a decent MCAT, GPA, and really good LoR's? Also understand that the fraternity itself took up a good chunk of my time while I was in college, starting a fraternity on a greek heavy campus takes a lot of work (I'm putting 1800+ hours for this on AMCAS). And since I had to work during the summer to pay for my rent for the year, do you think ADCOM's will be understanding?

Edit: My goal during this application cycle is to show that I'm well rounded and that I've proven interest and commitment to all of my endeavors.

 

[gyngyn]

I don't think that is necessarily true. While I don't have the exact definition of clinical hours, I believe that my shadowing experiences give enough to show that I'm committed to the field of medicine (It's one of my most meaningful experiences on my AMCAS and some of my experiences are in my personal statement). I'm not aiming for a top school by any means, but do you really think I shouldn't apply anywhere with a decent MCAT, GPA, and really good LoR's? Also understand that the fraternity itself took up a good chunk of my time while I was in college, starting a fraternity on a greek heavy campus takes a lot of work (I'm putting 1800+ hours for this on AMCAS). And since I had to work during the summer to pay for my rent for the year, do you think ADCOM's will be understanding?

Edit: My goal during this application cycle is to show that I'm well rounded and that I've proven interest and commitment to all of my endeavors.

This wouldn't work at my school but perhaps regional differences will fall in your favor.

 

[coldcase331]

Gyngyn, which school are you talking about?

 

[gyngyn]

Gyngyn, which school are you talking about?

A CA school.

 

[Komorebi2]

I don't think that is necessarily true. While I don't have the exact definition of clinical hours, I believe that my shadowing experiences give enough to show that I'm committed to the field of medicine (It's one of my most meaningful experiences on my AMCAS and some of my experiences are in my personal statement). I'm not aiming for a top school by any means, but do you really think I shouldn't apply anywhere with a decent MCAT, GPA, and really good LoR's? Also understand that the fraternity itself took up a good chunk of my time while I was in college, starting a fraternity on a greek heavy campus takes a lot of work (I'm putting 1800+ hours for this on AMCAS). And since I had to work during the summer to pay for my rent for the year, do you think ADCOM's will be understanding?

Edit: My goal during this application cycle is to show that I'm well rounded and that I've proven interest and commitment to all of my endeavors.

In my experience, shadowing can only teach you so much. Most of what I learned about myself and about caring for vulnerable people came through my clinical and service experience outside of shadowing. (As an aside: I also had to work to support myself in college. Any slack an AdCom would give you for working, they'd give me as well.)

My advice to you is go work with vulnerable people to prove to yourself that this is something you want to be doing! I don't think I'd be comfortable dedicating myself to a career after only 200 hrs of experience shadowing and never having cared for the needs of the sick and dying.

Then again, I am applying this year as well and am not an authority! My advice to you is just what I would consider if I were in your shoes.

 

[technician]

EC:

• Member of AED (pre-med society)

I wouldn't really include this on your AMCAS, it doesn't add anything unless you held leadership positions; IMO, it will look like fluff to adcoms.

 

[HCHopeful]

I don't think I'd be comfortable dedicating myself to a career after only 200 hrs of experience shadowing and never having cared for the needs of the sick and dying.

Not to get too "attack-y" here, but I really don't think the majority of pre-medical students have meaningful experience caring for the dying. The jobs we're more inclined to have are changing sheets and transporting patients. I mean, that's kind of why we're doing the whole doctor thing, to be able to do the saving part sometime in the future.

Sure, I volunteer at a nursing home where I am able to (hopefully) brighten the day of a few residents by engaging them in conversation they don't get enough of, but I am hardly saving them from death.

Don't get me wrong, some really great applicants have amazing clinical experiences, but most of them volunteered in a hospital filing away papers or went on a mission trip where they were in charge of holding a clipboard. They then act on an application as if it meant something. Truthfully, clinical volunteering is one of the hardest terms to define here on SDN, with different adcom members giving different answers.

To the OP. Depending on where you live, it may be okay to apply with only shadowing as clinical experience. I have had a DO rep and an associate dean of admissions from an MD school tell me that having my amount of shadowing hours (140) and having just started clinical volunteering is more than okay. In their eyes, it's a natural progression and have no problem with me just getting started. I should mention I had interviewed with the associate dean of admissions in high school for a BS/MD position and was ultimately an alternate (5 picked; 5 alternates; 200 applied), so he knows I have been considering medicine for quite a long time. This could possibly have made a difference in his eyes. Keep in mind I am from the Midwest, so it's not nearly as competitive out here either. Side note: I didn't attend the school at which I received the alternate position.

To me, clinical volunteering has simply confirmed what I've already known about medicine for a while now. While it wasn't a necessity for my growth, I do enjoy learning a little bit more about patients, especially the elderly.

So, ultimately, @Komorebi2 is right. And @gyngyn is correct as well. You probably should have clinical experience/volunteering on your resume. And to the competitive schools (top tier), you really need clinical experience/volunteering.

In the end, if you feel you have had strong enough experiences and can articulate it well enough to get a committee to forget this one shortcoming on your application, then more power to you. However, if you can't answer the, "How do you know you want to be around sick and dying people for the next 40-50 years?" question, perhaps volunteering at a nursing home or hospital would be in your best interest.

Yikes. Sorry about the book, everyone. HCHopeful out! *drops the mic*

 

[Komorebi2]

Not to get too "attack-y" here, but I really don't think the majority of pre-medical students have meaningful experience caring for the dying. The jobs we're more inclined to have are changing sheets and transporting patients. I mean, that's kind of why we're doing the whole doctor thing, to be able to do the saving part sometime in the future.

Sure, I volunteer at a nursing home where I am able to (hopefully) brighten the day of a few residents by engaging them in conversation they don't get enough of, but I am hardly saving them from death.

Don't get me wrong, some really great applicants have amazing clinical experiences, but most of them volunteered in a hospital filing away papers or went on a mission trip where they were in charge of holding a clipboard. They then act on an application as if it meant something. Truthfully, clinical volunteering is one of the hardest terms to define here on SDN, with different adcom members giving different answers.

To the OP. Depending on where you live, it may be okay to apply with only shadowing as clinical experience. I have had a DO rep and an associate dean of admissions from an MD school tell me that having my amount of shadowing hours (140) and having just started clinical volunteering is more than okay. In their eyes, it's a natural progression and have no problem with me just getting started. I should mention I had interviewed with the associate dean of admissions in high school for a BS/MD position and was ultimately an alternate (5 picked; 5 alternates; 200 applied), so he knows I have been considering medicine for quite a long time. This could possibly have made a difference in his eyes. Keep in mind I am from the Midwest, so it's not nearly as competitive out here either. Side note: I didn't attend the school at which I received the alternate position.

To me, clinical volunteering has simply confirmed what I've already known about medicine for a while now. While it wasn't a necessity for my growth, I do enjoy learning a little bit more about patients, especially the elderly.

So, ultimately, @Komorebi2 is right. And @gyngyn is correct as well. You probably should have clinical experience/volunteering on your resume. And to the competitive schools (top tier), you really need clinical experience/volunteering.

In the end, if you feel you have had strong enough experiences and can articulate it well enough to get a committee to forget this one shortcoming on your application, then more power to you. However, if you can't answer the, "How do you know you want to be around sick and dying people for the next 40-50 years?" question, perhaps volunteering at a nursing home or hospital would be in your best interest.

Yikes. Sorry about the book, everyone. HCHopeful out! *drops the mic*

To clarify for OP:

I agree...I highly doubt the average pre-med is out there saving the dying (unless s/he is working as a paramedic or something). That would be an absurd admission standard!! And probably not the point.

Generally speaking, I think any patient interaction has the possibility of being meaningful, even (especially?) working in a nursing home, for example. I think what you are doing is so much more than brightening someone's day! I think you are learning how to relate to others who are (presumably) very different from you. You are learning whether or not you are able to be sensitive to the needs of others. You are also able to see if this is maybe a patient population you want to care for as a career. Etc.

Meaning in clinical experience, I believe, is derived from reflection and introspection. An experience, in and of itself, is not meaningful.

And to my original point, I am not confident that a small handful of months is enough time for one to beginning a clinical experience and reflect meaningfully on that experience.

Sorry for the confusion. I hope that clears it up!

 

[Simpson]

Not to get too "attack-y" here, but I really don't think the majority of pre-medical students have meaningful experience caring for the dying. The jobs we're more inclined to have are changing sheets and transporting patients. I mean, that's kind of why we're doing the whole doctor thing, to be able to do the saving part sometime in the future.

Sure, I volunteer at a nursing home where I am able to (hopefully) brighten the day of a few residents by engaging them in conversation they don't get enough of, but I am hardly saving them from death.

Don't get me wrong, some really great applicants have amazing clinical experiences, but most of them volunteered in a hospital filing away papers or went on a mission trip where they were in charge of holding a clipboard. They then act on an application as if it meant something. Truthfully, clinical volunteering is one of the hardest terms to define here on SDN, with different adcom members giving different answers.

To the OP. Depending on where you live, it may be okay to apply with only shadowing as clinical experience. I have had a DO rep and an associate dean of admissions from an MD school tell me that having my amount of shadowing hours (140) and having just started clinical volunteering is more than okay. In their eyes, it's a natural progression and have no problem with me just getting started. I should mention I had interviewed with the associate dean of admissions in high school for a BS/MD position and was ultimately an alternate (5 picked; 5 alternates; 200 applied), so he knows I have been considering medicine for quite a long time. This could possibly have made a difference in his eyes. Keep in mind I am from the Midwest, so it's not nearly as competitive out here either. Side note: I didn't attend the school at which I received the alternate position.

To me, clinical volunteering has simply confirmed what I've already known about medicine for a while now. While it wasn't a necessity for my growth, I do enjoy learning a little bit more about patients, especially the elderly.

So, ultimately, @Komorebi2 is right. And @gyngyn is correct as well. You probably should have clinical experience/volunteering on your resume. And to the competitive schools (top tier), you really need clinical experience/volunteering.

In the end, if you feel you have had strong enough experiences and can articulate it well enough to get a committee to forget this one shortcoming on your application, then more power to you. However, if you can't answer the, "How do you know you want to be around sick and dying people for the next 40-50 years?" question, perhaps volunteering at a nursing home or hospital would be in your best interest.

Yikes. Sorry about the book, everyone. HCHopeful out! *drops the mic*

I disagree, most medical colleges will look highly upon your dedication to volunteering in hospital settings. For instance, I work at my local hospital in the emergency room; you are correct in your statement, regarding the choice of the volunteer to make decisions. Do you think medical colleges realize this fact? of course they do! Clearly, the person who posted the post " but I really don't think the majority of pre-medical students have meaningful experience caring for the dying" should recant his statement. Medicine is not a process that is "cut in dry". If you work with patients you will understand that their are many more processes at hand than just cure restoration physically. I talk to many pts about their day, and their upcoming plans for the week . This allows the patient to demodulate fears that concern the future of their health. This is rested upon the fact that the patient is at a highly equipped medical facility, full of highly trained physicians and medical personal. You do not want your patient to forget about their condition,however, you don't want them to worry about it. I receive the privilege of engaging with patients. After all, it's all about the patient right?

 

[HCHopeful]

I disagree, most medical colleges will look highly upon your dedication to volunteering in hospital settings. For instance, I work at my local hospital in the emergency room; you are correct in your statement, regarding the choice of the volunteer to make decisions. Do you think medical colleges realize this fact? of course they do! Clearly, the person who posted the post " but I really don't think the majority of pre-medical students have meaningful experience caring for the dying" should recant his statement. Medicine is not a process that is "cut in dry". If you work with patients you will understand that their are many more processes at hand than just cure restoration physically. I talk to many pts about their day, and their upcoming plans for the week . This allows the patient to demodulate fears that concern the future of their health. This is rested upon the fact that the patient is at a highly equipped medical facility, full of highly trained physicians and medical personal. You do not want your patient to forget about their condition,however, you don't want them to worry about it. I receive the privilege of engaging with patients. After all, it's all about the patient right?

I will not recant my statement, because it was meant to illustrate that we don't care for the sick and dying. We are around them, and those can be meaningful experiences just listening. But no undergraduate pre-med has ever had a meaningful experience saving a patient's life in a volunteering role.

There can be meaningful experiences, yes, but I've read personal statements that make it seem as if the volunteer was the one saving the life and not the doctor. We pre-meds have a way of exaggerating our roles quite a bit apparently.