3rd dose covid shot - would you change brand?

[Dred Pirate]

With the looming recommendation to receive a third dose, and the apparent waning effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine against Delta, what are your thoughts of someone (like myself) having the option to receive Moderna for a third dose vs Pfizer?
1. Do you think "they" (mainly our employers/health department) will allow it?
2. Do you think a booster dose of a different company will be more or less effective?
3. IF you wanted to change products, should you have to start the series over and get two doses?

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[Sine Cura]

I'm content with being a FRPP site distributing Moderna no matter what (CDC guidance permits using the other mRNA product if the initial one isn't available) but chains want to muddy the waters and put Pfizer in the mix (actually not content with being part of the plurality of injectors giving vaccines these days)

A third dose of either product is still delivering the mRNA for the prefusion-stabilized conformation so only differences would be in immunogenicity (either related to dosing interval between the last dose and the 3rd + # of immunogen)

At some point it's gonna be a free-for-all especially for the JNJ "orphans" who aren't allowed to get mRNA vaccines based on guidance atm

 

[Dred Pirate]

I'm content with being a FRPP site distributing Moderna no matter what (CDC guidance permits using the the other mRNA product) but chains want to muddy the waters and put Pfizer in the mix.

A third dose of either product is still delivering the mRNA for the prefusion-stabilized conformation so only differences would be in immunogenicity (either related to dosing interval between the last dose and the 3rd + # of immunogen)

At some point it's gonna be a free-for-all especially for the JNJ "orphans" who aren't allowed to get mRNA vaccines based on guidance atm

Explain this to me like I am a fifth grader. Of you are delivering the same mRNA why is the Pfizer product less effective than moderna against delta?

 

[Sine Cura]

Confounders include time of series completion (see Israel), extended interval (3 weeks appearing to be less optimal than 8-12 weeks w.r.t. to nAb levels post-2nd dose - see Canada and UK)

 

[Pronounce Doxazosin]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the current CDC guideline say that you should not mix brands for the third dose?

 

[Old Timer]

I'm content with being a FRPP site distributing Moderna no matter what (CDC guidance permits using the other mRNA product if the initial one isn't available) but chains want to muddy the waters and put Pfizer in the mix (actually not content with being part of the plurality of injectors giving vaccines these days)

A third dose of either product is still delivering the mRNA for the prefusion-stabilized conformation so only differences would be in immunogenicity (either related to dosing interval between the last dose and the 3rd + # of immunogen)

At some point it's gonna be a free-for-all especially for the JNJ "orphans" who aren't allowed to get mRNA vaccines based on guidance atm

The chains could care less what Brand you get. They don't own the vaccine. CVS has both Moderna and Pfizer and they are paid a fixed amount to administer the vaccine.

 

[Sine Cura]

The chains could care less what Brand you get. They don't own the vaccine. CVS has both Moderna and Pfizer and they are paid a fixed amount to administer the vaccine.

They care about not wasting shortdated vaccine and missing out on that $40 per pop for Medicare/Medicaid recipients (why they're trying to redistribute shortdated vaccine from hub sites)

 

[Chrish]

Guidance from our chain was you should get the same vaccine as first and 2nd dose. Exception is made when the 3rd one isn’t available then you can change the brand.

Personally to me all mRNAs are the same in terms of efficacy and side effect profile. So, I wouldn’t be concerned.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Haven't looked recently but wasn't there some promising preliminary data about mix and match dosing?

I wouldn't be too concerned one way or the other but given that current recommendations are to use the same vaccine I would keep it consistent if it's readily available.

 

[SCallergydoc]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the current CDC guideline say that you should not mix brands for the third dose?

There is very little I trust coming from the CDC

 

[M0df]

I would but I am not allowed to yet. So initial vaccine trials had 30k participants I believe. Was there similar enrollment for 3rd dose trial? Plus I doubt they are running trials using multiple vaccines. So current guidance is based on... Case reports and financial interests? I am not against 3rd dose but I haven't seen same data as for initial vaccines.

 

[Old Timer]

They care about not wasting shortdated vaccine and missing out on that $40 per pop for Medicare/Medicaid recipients (why they're trying to redistribute shortdated vaccine from hub sites)

Why? Is this called "fuzzy" logic.? They get new vaccine all of the time. They don't own the vaccine. Unless there is a claw-back in their contract with the Feds that we have no knowledge of, they get paid for giving the shots, FULL STOP. If it goes out of date, who cares? They won't miss a single $40.00 vaccination

 

[Old Timer]

Haven't looked recently but wasn't there some promising preliminary data about mix and match dosing?

I wouldn't be too concerned one way or the other but given that current recommendations are to use the same vaccine I would keep it consistent if it's readily available.

There is prelimnary data in Europe and there have been discussions I heard before the vaccines were released that mRNA vaccines wuld be boosted with adenovirus vectored vaccines. The CDC DOES NOT have large scale data to support mixing vaccines but if you got one mRNA vaccine and can't get it, you can get the other. It's a "we're pretty sure it works, but we have no evidence." In reality, the MRNA vaccines are probably interchangable.

 

[Sine Cura]

Why? Is this called "fuzzy" logic.? They get new vaccine all of the time. They don't own the vaccine. Unless there is a claw-back in their contract with the Feds that we have no knowledge of, they get paid for giving the shots, FULL STOP. If it goes out of date, who cares? They won't miss a single $40.00 vaccination

Why even bother redistributing vaccine then? They'll miss 1000s

Oh wait, only "hub sites" get Pfizer.

 

[Old Timer]

Why even bother redistributing vaccine then? They'll miss 1000s

Oh wait, only "hub sites" get Pfizer.

WTF does this have to do with anything? You can not own the vaccine and not want it to go out of date w/o being used.

 

[Sine Cura]

HURRR DURRRR

No **** chains don't give a ****. They just want to unload this **** and don't give a **** about mixing & matching, people not being able to finish the EUA-auth series (aside from getting customer complaints)

Muh access. Muh stabbing those peds

I'm content with being a FRPP site distributing Moderna no matter what (CDC guidance permits using the other mRNA product if the initial one isn't available) but chains want to muddy the waters and put Pfizer in the mix (actually not content with being part of the plurality of injectors giving vaccines these days)

A third dose of either product is still delivering the mRNA for the prefusion-stabilized conformation so only differences would be in immunogenicity (either related to dosing interval between the last dose and the 3rd + # of immunogen)

At some point it's gonna be a free-for-all especially for the JNJ "orphans" who aren't allowed to get mRNA vaccines based on guidance atm

 

[Old Timer]

HURRR DURRRR

No **** chains don't give a ****. They just want to unload this **** and don't give a **** about mixing & matching, people not being able to finish the EUA-auth series (aside from getting customer complaints)

Muh access. Muh stabbing those peds

I really don't know what you are taking about, I work for a chain. We have locations that administer Pfizer and we he have locations that adminsiter Moderna. We are not permitted to administer any vaccine we want and DO NOT give second or third doses unless we have a vaccine card that has proof of the brand they had previously.

 

[gwarm01]

I'll just stick with Moderna since that'll probably be the easiest path forward with my current card. If I had received J&J I may very well consider just going in fresh to get one of the mRNA vaccines, based purely on nothing but fear mongering articles on reddit that imply they are better. I haven't kept up with this topic academically so I don't know how true that is.

 

[Old Timer]

I'll just stick with Moderna since that'll probably be the easiest path forward with my current card. If I had received J&J I may very well consider just going in fresh to get one of the mRNA vaccines, based purely on nothing but fear mongering articles on reddit that imply they are better. I haven't kept up with this topic academically so I don't know how true that is.

Depending on when you got vaccinated, it might be best look into J&J's second dose data. If not, get boosted with an mRNA vaccine. The combination of adenovirus vectored vaccine (A-Z) with mRNA works quite well. Originally before anything got approved number of doctors were talking about boosting the mRNA vaccines with AVV

 

[owlegrad]

HURRR DURRRR

No **** chains don't give a ****. They just want to unload this **** and don't give a **** about mixing & matching, people not being able to finish the EUA-auth series (aside from getting customer complaints)

Muh access. Muh stabbing those peds

Pfizer is FDA approved now, just FYI. If that means anything to anyone.

 

[Old Timer]

Pfizer is FDA approved now, just FYI. If that means anything to anyone.

Too soon to tell.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Pfizer is FDA approved now, just FYI. If that means anything to anyone.

My understanding is the FDA approval is just for the first 2 doses, it is still EAU for the 3rd dose, which its expected CDC/FDA will say has to be the same as the first 2.

Although other countries that gave the Sinovac or AZ, are now using Pfizer as the booster. I agree that there is likely no reason that any of the vaccines can't be mixed and matched, but I don't think the FDA/CDC will approve that without further data, and I highly doubt any retail pharmacy would mix and match until the FDA/CDC OK's it.