42 Years young when i apply for Med School, chances?

[toooldforthis]

Hi all,
As you can tell i am going for the uber nontraditional student status.

GPA and MCAT will be forthcoming and im expecting to take approx 5 yrs to get my pre req's done, that being said what are the max ages SDN has seen for folks applying to med school and being accepted??

I have assisted on over 500 surgeries and been in clinical medicine for over 10 years, with another 5 in medical admin. Hoping that will offset any reservations the admissions folks/interviewers have about me. thoughts on that are appreciated too!

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[MCAT guy]

Hi all,
As you can tell i am goin for the uber nontraditional student status.

GPA and MCAT will be forthcoming and im expecting to take approx 5 yrs to get my pre req's done, that being said what are the max ages SDN has seen for folks applying to med school and being accepted??

I have assisted on over 500 surgeries and been in clinical medicine for over 10 years, with another 5 in medical admin. Hoping that will offset any reservations the admissions folks/interviewers have about me. thoughts on that are appreciated too!

This is just a guess, but an educated one nonetheless, I'd say you would be in the 98-99th percentile at 42 y/o.

 

[DrMidlife]

You might not be the oldest in your med school class at 42 or 43 - the oldest at my school is 46. Very few qualified applicants are over 40, thus very few acceptees are over 40. https://www.aamc.org/download/159350/data/table9-facts2010age-web.pdf.pdf

People talk about age discrimination but I think that's bull. Your GPA is your fate.

Your medical experience is useful, but it will have little impact on your chances of acceptance.

If you want to get accepted to an MD school, get above average cumulative overall+science undergrad GPAs (3.6+), get an above-average MCAT (32+), get solid letters of recommendation, and apply early and broadly. If you need to quit your job to get good grades, then quit your job.

Also look into DO. Slightly lower average GPA/MCAT, arguably friendlier to the nontrad comeback applicant, same practice rights.

Best of luck to you.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Definitely look at DO schools. When I started at LECOM I was right in the middle of the age group at 32.

The oldest LECOM student I know of started at 51. There were plenty of students 40+ (at least 15) that were students when I was.

 

[toastedcheese]

I have assisted on over 500 surgeries and been in clinical medicine for over 10 years, with another 5 in medical admin. Hoping that will offset any reservations the admissions folks/interviewers have about me. thoughts on that are appreciated too!

Careful with this. It is my impression that this doesn't really matter all that much to the adcoms. You still have to have the same GPA and MCAT as the trads. I have no idea what your specific situation is, but this thought-process kind of set off a red flag based on my past experience. My post-bac cohort had a few long-time nurses in it who had this attitude. None of them made it past the physics and chemistry II classes. It's nice that you've had this experience, but your fellow post-bacs will be lawyers, successful business people, researchers. Everyone has a cool background, but we're starting over at the bottom rung of the ladder by following this route. You're not going to get any leeway.

Plus, why are you going to take 5 years to do the prereqs? They want to see that you can handle a heavy load of classes well. Taking one class a semester is not going to cut it.

 

[funklab]

I don't think it would be a very big deal. The dean of admissions to an MD school in my state said they accepted someone in their mid 50s.

At 42, you will be out of med school around 46 and could be done with residency before 50. With retirement age around 67 (maybe more by then) you'd have the better part of two decades to do your part for physiciandom. If you really want to do it, do it.

 

[funklab]

Plus, why are you going to take 5 years to do the prereqs? They want to see that you can handle a heavy load of classes well. Taking one class a semester is not going to cut it.

I didn't think about this point before I responded. TC makes a good point. If you really want to do this you can finish up prereqs in 1 year (if you have an undergrad degree already). If you will be starting undergrad though, 5 years isn't going to be that bad.

I pretty much can't envision a fiscal situation in which it would make more sense to spend 5 years doing part time school and working rather than doing Fall, Spring and summer and knocking everything out while taking a bit of debt on... but I guess I don't really know your situation.

 

[Helen Wheels]

Definitely look at DO schools. When I started at LECOM I was right in the middle of the age group at 32.

The oldest LECOM student I know of started at 51. There were plenty of students 40+ (at least 15) that were students when I was.

Good to hear Cabin. I am starting at LECOM Seton Hill in July 2011. I hope there are at least a few others like me!

 

[CaptainObvious]

40 y/o now. The goal is to complete my pre-reqs, complete final 2 years of BS coursework, and apply 4 years from now.

I'm right there with ya.

 

[toooldforthis]

Long and the short of it: Im starting from scratch and have the joys of child support to maintain. so working full time and taking 3-4 classes will be the norm for about 5 years.

and as far as the experience goes im not "taking the attitude", i just know that i want to be a surgeon. Period. if asked by admissions committes/interviewers i hope to prove im MORE driven by my past experiences, i want to get back into the OR but this time be the one cutting, not handing instruments. My experience in a patient care environment is an asset to me, as a few of the surgeons i know have pointed out. Im going into the field (hopefully!) knowing what a 14 hour single-patient day feels like. Ive been there delivering bad news to military and their families. "Hey we get to remove most of your lower jaw to to amelioblastoma. Hope you like straws for a bit...". ive had the trauma calls at 3 AM, ive helped place 300+ stitches in one patent-3 teens thought he "looked gay" and beat the tar out of him. Ive worked on recently decease, ive seen and done from a tech persepective, ive been divorced, been overseas for 6 years. and i STILL have the drive and desire to contribute to medicine from the time i graduate until i (hopefully) help teach new docs.

Hoping all this helps offset the grey hairs.

Q thou? Ive heard its harder to be a surgeon as a DO? Specifically Orthopaedic Surgery. True? False?

 

[CW 2010]

Q thou? Ive heard its harder to be a surgeon as a DO? Specifically Orthopaedic Surgery. True? False?

I know somebody who went to Midwestern DO School in IL and became an orthopedic surgeon. It's possible

 

[funklab]

Long and the short of it: Im starting from scratch and have the joys of child support to maintain. so working full time and taking 3-4 classes will be the norm for about 5 years.

and as far as the experience goes im not "taking the attitude", i just know that i want to be a surgeon. Period. if asked by admissions committes/interviewers i hope to prove im MORE driven by my past experiences, i want to get back into the OR but this time be the one cutting, not handing instruments. My experience in a patient care environment is an asset to me, as a few of the surgeons i know have pointed out. Im going into the field (hopefully!) knowing what a 14 hour single-patient day feels like. Ive been there delivering bad news to military and their families. "Hey we get to remove most of your lower jaw to to amelioblastoma. Hope you like straws for a bit...". ive had the trauma calls at 3 AM, ive helped place 300+ stitches in one patent-3 teens thought he "looked gay" and beat the tar out of him. Ive worked on recently decease, ive seen and done from a tech persepective, ive been divorced, been overseas for 6 years. and i STILL have the drive and desire to contribute to medicine from the time i graduate until i (hopefully) help teach new docs.

Hoping all this helps offset the grey hairs.

Q thou? Ive heard its harder to be a surgeon as a DO? Specifically Orthopaedic Surgery. True? False?

Starting from scratch and taking five years is no big deal. It took me 6.5 years of actual full time classes to finally graduate and get all the prereqs done.

As far as how hard it is to get into surgery with a DO, check the Surgery residency subforums, or search in the med student section. I am pretty sure someone tracks the data as to how many MDs vs DOs get into what specialty.

I seem to remember reading in the neurosurgery subforum a breakdown of the several hundred neuro matches. Over 99% had an MD if I remember correctly. Not sure how closely that trend would follow in Orthopaedics.

 

[toooldforthis]

Pretty sure thats what sealed my fate for MD. The statistis for the 2010 cycle (from the NRMP) show 57% being allopathic.

Im still going for it as i want surgery / anesthesia. So we will see.

 

[1fastmedic]

Regardless of age, go for it if you know that is what you want to do. I'm in the same boat as you. Divorced, child support, full-time job. Was just accepted to VCOM-Carolinas in September. Took me 4 years to finish undergrad, but I was able to get a good GPA and MCAT score. Not the best scores, but good enough. I will be 36 when I start next August.

I'm not sure what your chances of scoring a surgical residency with a DO vs. MD would be. Seems MDs traditionally tie up those residencies. However, have an open mind about things. You may get into school and end up in a different specialty in the end. And the last time I checked, both MDs and DOs are called "Doctor". There are exceptions: my wife recently had to have surgery at UNC Chapel Hill, a very prominent MD school here in NC. The anesthesiologist and the surgical resident on her case were both DOs. It can happen!

Also, the fact that you have medical experience will be helpful to you when you matriculate, but I don't think it really matters to the adcoms. I've been a paramedic for 13 years, and in my interviews I had several interviewers tell me that I should "...be ready to change the way I think about patient care." Regardless of what you have done in the medical field, you haven't been a physician, and therefore you, as someone else mentioned in this forum, are starting at square one.

Keep your goal in sight, disregard the skeptics, and push through it. If I can do it, you can do it. Good luck!!

 

[DrMidlife]

Pretty sure thats what sealed my fate for MD. The statistis for the 2010 cycle (from the NRMP) show 57% being allopathic.

Im still going for it as i want surgery / anesthesia. So we will see.

I'm not sure what your chances of scoring a surgical residency with a DO vs. MD would be. Seems MDs traditionally tie up those residencies.

Aaaauuugggh misinformation.

As a DO you can attempt to compete for MD residencies, or you can can complete for DO residencies. See http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/index.cfm. DO side has about 12 anesthesia programs, 41 general surgery programs, 34 ortho programs, 11 neurosurg programs. (Note: programs usually have more than one resident.) I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure out how this compares to MD (https://freida.ama-assn.org/Freida/user/viewProgramSearch.do).

You can go nuts digging into match rates as well. The MD match (http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html) includes numbers of DOs who matched into MD specialties. Note that there are separate match programs (the SF match, the uro match, others?). You can get DO match numbers from AOA.org I think.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Dianyla]

Long and the short of it: Im starting from scratch and have the joys of child support to maintain. so working full time and taking 3-4 classes will be the norm for about 5 years.

If you're truly starting from scratch (i.e. you have no post-secondary education whatsoever) than you are in an incredibly blessed situation. You don't have GPA baggage! If you do consistently well, you will be well-poised to be a competitive applicant.

The point here is that for applying to MD programs, there is no such thing as a "statute of limitations" nor is there grade forgiveness of any kind. Every single class taken at a community college, university, etc. in your entire life must be reported to AMCAS when applying, and will be included in your cumulative GPA. Doesn't matter if it was when you were in HS, even. Many of us non-trads have old stinkbombs from 10-15 years ago.

Also, be careful about taking 3-4 classes at a time on top of full-time work. I found that I wasn't able to maintain a good GPA (or sanity, but that's a different issue! ) taking more than 3, and would have to drop to 2 classes if one of them has a lab. You may wish to ease into it the first semester or two to see how your time management goes.

I started essentially from scratch (but with GPA baggage, 3 incomplete-to-Fs) and I'm just now finishing up my 6th year of full-time+ work and part time school. Remember that you should still make time for some volunteering, even though you have tons of paid clinical experience, and also consider some research activity.

 

[1fastmedic]

The point here is that for applying to MD programs, there is no such thing as a "statute of limitations" nor is there grade forgiveness of any kind. Every single class taken at a community college, university, etc. in your entire life must be reported to AMCAS when applying, and will be included in your cumulative GPA. Doesn't matter if it was when you were in HS, even. Many of us non-trads have old stinkbombs from 10-15 years ago.

Right on! Be ready to explain any academic unpleasantries when you do interview! I had a stinkbomb or two that I had to answer for!

 

[MacVA]

Hi all,
As you can tell i am goin for the uber nontraditional student status.

GPA and MCAT will be forthcoming and im expecting to take approx 5 yrs to get my pre req's done, that being said what are the max ages SDN has seen for folks applying to med school and being accepted??

I have assisted on over 500 surgeries and been in clinical medicine for over 10 years, with another 5 in medical admin. Hoping that will offset any reservations the admissions folks/interviewers have about me. thoughts on that are appreciated too!

Someone in my SO's entering class was 48. That is the oldest I have heard of. The guy is apparently top of his class as well.

And Dr. Midlife, not to hijack the thread, but congrats on getting into medical school i have been viewing your posts the last couple of years.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I know somebody who went to Midwestern DO School in IL and became an orthopedic surgeon. It's possible

I have tons of friends who are DO orthopedic surgeons and general surgeons. It's not unheard of. Depends on which part of the country you live it where the DO surgeons are more common.

 

[MightyMoose]

If you're truly starting from scratch (i.e. you have no post-secondary education whatsoever) than you are in an incredibly blessed situation. You don't have GPA baggage! If you do consistently well, you will be well-poised to be a competitive applicant.

The point here is that for applying to MD programs, there is no such thing as a "statute of limitations" nor is there grade forgiveness of any kind. Every single class taken at a community college, university, etc. in your entire life must be reported to AMCAS when applying, and will be included in your cumulative GPA. Doesn't matter if it was when you were in HS, even. Many of us non-trads have old stinkbombs from 10-15 years ago.

Also, be careful about taking 3-4 classes at a time on top of full-time work. I found that I wasn't able to maintain a good GPA (or sanity, but that's a different issue! ) taking more than 3, and would have to drop to 2 classes if one of them has a lab. You may wish to ease into it the first semester or two to see how your time management goes.

I started essentially from scratch (but with GPA baggage, 3 incomplete-to-Fs) and I'm just now finishing up my 6th year of full-time+ work and part time school. Remember that you should still make time for some volunteering, even though you have tons of paid clinical experience, and also consider some research activity.

Unless you're a Texas resident. I believe they have a 10 year statute of limitations for grades.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Unless you're a Texas resident. I believe they have a 10 year statute of limitations for grades.

The Texas program for grade forgiveness applies only to applying to Texas schools. If you apply outside of Texas, then, like murder, your crimes against GPA have no forgiveness upon Earth.

 

[MightyMoose]

The Texas program for grade forgiveness applies only to applying to Texas schools. If you apply outside of Texas, then, like murder, your crimes against GPA have no forgiveness upon Earth.

If you're a Texas resident then why on earth would you even bother applying anywhere else? In Texas they favor their own, have an awesome education budget, have plenty of great programs, and medical education costs a fraction of what it does it does elsewhere in this country.

If I could redo my last 6 years, I would have moved to Texas to gain residency before I applied to medical school.

 

[toooldforthis]

Wow! First let me say thanks for all of the encouraging words, it is most appreciated.

I did complete 1 semester at USM while waiting to go into the USAF. And yes Texas does have a forgiveness program for grades over 10 years ago. Which i am thinking about using. The current plan:
-2-3 classes per semester at a CC until i have enough to apply, which at Texas school is 90 semester hours.(not including allll the math i need to get to statistics)
-If i don't get in the first round i will be trying to complete my BS in Bio @ UTSA, then reapply. My hope is for UTHSC San Antonio, and then getting the holy grail, Residency in house.


We will see!

 

[RAMCLA2016]

You can definitely do it in texas - I finished my pre reqs (started at 43 - applied at 44 - accepted to 4 Texas Med Schools in pre-match in November) You can finish some of the pre reqs while applying - just study hard for the MCAT.

 

[toooldforthis]

You can definitely do it in texas - I finished my pre reqs (started at 43 - applied at 44 - accepted to 4 Texas Med Schools in pre-match in November) You can finish some of the pre reqs while applying - just study hard for the MCAT.

good to hear!

 

[nontradguy]

"...that being said what are the max ages SDN has seen for folks applying to med school and being accepted??"

Are you familiar with this guy? David C. Hilmers, M.D., retired U.S. Marine pilot, and former NASA astronaut. He graduated from medical school in his mid-forties.


Ooh-rah!!

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2007/07/twenty-questions-david-c-hilmers-md-ee-mph/