6 Attending Paychecks later - 195k student loans wiped out

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Not that I'm above derailing threads. But if we want to talk about Chinese virus creation, or anything else really, let's not take away from the utility in this thread. So, only talk about FIRE/FatFIRE/loan repayments. Otherwise, it's getting locked.

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Don't threads go wherever they need to go?
Not that I'm above derailing threads. But if we want to talk about Chinese virus creation, or anything else really, let's not take away from the utility in this thread. So, only talk about FIRE/FatFIRE/loan repayments. Otherwise, it's getting locked.
 
Not that I'm above derailing threads. But if we want to talk about Chinese virus creation, or anything else really, let's not take away from the utility in this thread. So, only talk about FIRE/FatFIRE/loan repayments. Otherwise, it's getting locked.

Fine. I'll bring things back to the topic.

Any one of you guys care to share what amount of debt you had, how long it took you to pay it off, and any certain thing you did to knock it out?

Maybe you were like general veers and negotiated 350/hr :p ?
 
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Fine. I'll bring things back to the topic.

Any one of you guys care to share what amount of debt you had, how long it took you to pay it off, and any certain thing you did to knock it out?

Maybe you were like general veers and negotiated 350/hr :p ?
I'll chime in with my alternate perspective that so many here seem to hate. I'm still paying off my loans. Plan to pay them off entirely in 7 more years. With current assets, I could pay them off today easily.

Instead, I'm just investing heavily and making my monthly payments.

My loans are all refinanced at around 2.6%. I'm relatively early in my career so the idea of a guaranteed 2.6% RoR just doesn't appeal as much as increased risk for a likely substantially greater return by investing in the market.

Yes, I'm aware that past performance does not guarantee future returns, but this seems like a very reasonable risk with substantial upside as opposed to simply paying everything down now.

Thus far, it's panning out very well.
 
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I'll chime in with my alternate perspective that so many here seem to hate. I'm still paying off my loans. Plan to pay them off entirely in 7 more years. With current assets, I could pay them off today easily.

Instead, I'm just investing heavily and making my monthly payments.

My loans are all refinanced at around 2.6%. I'm relatively early in my career so the idea of a guaranteed 2.6% RoR just doesn't appeal as much as increased risk for a likely substantially greater return by investing in the market.

Yes, I'm aware that past performance does not guarantee future returns, but this seems like a very reasonable risk with substantial upside as opposed to simply paying everything down now.

Thus far, it's panning out very well.

There's no reason to pay off your loans early if they are under 4% interest rate. It's always much better to do what you are doing and invest that money and get hopefully a 5% return (not hard to do with a dividend stock) and make the monthly payments.
 
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There's no reason to pay off your loans early if they are under 4% interest rate. It's always much better to do what you are doing and invest that money and get hopefully a 5% return (not hard to do with a dividend stock) and make the monthly payments.

....until the (not so) unforeseen happens, like the market gets flooded, the balance billing legislation passes, and you see your hourly start to drop. Then you're stuck with student loans, which you would have wished you'd paid off earlier, because it is now starting to impact your cash flow.....

That's the thing about debt, particularly interest bearing loans. It always carries with it an element of liability and uncertainty that you cannot insure against, particularly student loans.
 
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....until the (not so) unforeseen happens, like the market gets flooded, the balance billing legislation passes, and you see your hourly start to drop. Then you're stuck with student loans, which you would have wished you'd paid off earlier, because it is now starting to impact your cash flow.....
The implication isn't that you're spending the money, it's that you're investing it. If any of the scenarios you describe come to pass, I would much rather have a large chunk of money in investments which I can use for living expenses/paying off my loans/whatever as opposed to having no liquid assets but also minimal to no debt. If my job goes away today, I can still pay off my entire loan balance and have a healthy chunk of change left over afterwards which I wouldn't have had if I had just thrown all my money into loans from the get go.

Really, the idea of paying off low interest loans ASAP is only a reasonable strategy if you are worried about not only catastrophic profession changes causing cash flow problems, but also about the stock market tanking simultaneously.

Can that happen? I mean, yeah, anything's possible. If that's the bar we're using though, we may as well move this discussion from financial planning to doomsday planning.
 
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....until the (not so) unforeseen happens, like the market gets flooded, the balance billing legislation passes, and you see your hourly start to drop. Then you're stuck with student loans, which you would have wished you'd paid off earlier, because it is now starting to impact your cash flow.....

That's the thing about debt, particularly interest bearing loans. It always carries with it an element of liability and uncertainty that you cannot insure against, particularly student loans.
Your scenario is irrelevant to the comment the poster made. Investing at 5% always beats out paying off loans at 4%. The future market hourly rate of EM does not have affect this.
 
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I paid off my 400K in 3-4 years and never re-financed it. I don’t regret it in the slightest. Getting rid of that albatross from around my neck was one of the most liberating feelings I’ve had since becoming a physician. Some of you forget about the psychology of carrying around large loans. It’s a bigger deal to some of us. Half of mine were at 2.5% and half were at 6.8% if I recall. Uncle Sam and any financial institutions can kiss my ***. Debt free is the way to go. I don’t owe s*** to anyone and that’s the way I‘d like to keep it. Sure, I may have lost a little compounding interest on earlier retirement investing but no amount that would make me want to go back and do it over.
 
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I paid off my 400K in 3-4 years and never re-financed it. I don’t regret it in the slightest. Getting rid of that albatross from around my neck was one of the most liberating feelings I’ve had since becoming a physician. Some of you forget about the psychology of carrying around large loans. It’s a bigger deal to some of us. Half of mine were at 2.5% and half were at 6.8% if I recall. Uncle Sam and any financial institutions can kiss my ***. Debt free is the way to go. I don’t owe s*** to anyone and that’s the way I‘d like to keep it. Sure, I may have lost a little compounding interest on earlier retirement investing but no amount that would make me want to go back and do it over.
Several folks here are making the mistake of thinking that the way they did it is the only way. There are certainly ways that are unwise (not refinancing and taking the full 10 years to repay being the main one), but different ways of addressing this work for different people.

For you, being debt free is worth the decrease in invested funds. Nothing wrong with that, the feeling of not having student loan debt has a monetary value for you.

For others, that extra money is more valuable than being debt free.

Both are acceptable.
 
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As per “Rich dad vs Poor Dad”.... paraphrasing of course.... but a big difference between those that are rich, and those that want to be rich but aren’t, is being able to use debt in your favor!!! Debt is not a bad thing just as long as you are smart about it!!! It makes no sense other than the “fear” of debt that makes someone pay off a loan at 2.5% faster then they need to. If you can learn the tricks that allow debt to make you rich... then I think people might not fear it as much ‍♂️!!!
 
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Right. I'm not sure how long I can maintain my pace or what happens when the bottom falls out of insurance "reimbursement." Not holding debts that don't support themselves is the financial priority.
As per “Rich dad vs Poor Dad”.... paraphrasing of course.... but a big difference between those that are rich, and those that want to be rich but aren’t, is being able to use debt in your favor!!! Debt is not a bad thing just as long as you are smart about it!!! It makes no sense other than the “fear” of debt that makes someone pay off a loan at 2.5% faster then they need to. If you can learn the tricks that allow debt to make you rich... then I think people might not fear it as much ‍!!!
 
Very inspiring, thanks. Obviously you're very disciplined, the only thing I can't agree with is buying stocks in med school on borrowed money and needing to outperform the 7-8% interest rate.
 
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Very inspiring, thanks. Obviously you're very disciplined, the only thing I can't agree with is buying stocks in med school on borrowed money and needing to outperform the 7-8% interest rate.

The extra money was not meant as money to invest, i borrowed the full amount instead of only what i needed to have a safety net and financial Independence. When you have 30k in liquid assets, life is easier. The cost of interest for that money was 5-6k by my calculations. This 5-6k of interest confirmed that i had money in the bank when i got married as an intern, money to support my wife when she immigrated from Pakistan, and was financially able to pay for all her usmle exams, application cost, and interviews and then eventually buying a second car. Never had to look towards my family for support.

Yes, a lot of my assets were placed on the market in the early days, but in my mind, it was better than the 0.01% that Chase Bank gave me. I got lucky i didn't lose that capital but i was terrible at investing then. But yeah....i probably wouldn't recommend that either.

I don't think it was discipline. I bought a new car in residency for 19.5k after tax title etc, a second car within 6 months of the new car for 17k after tax and title. We mostly stopped cooking at home and found a Pakistani lady to cook 60 percent of our meals even as a 3rd yrbresident. We would buy these large platters from her, chicken 65, butter chicken, kababs, biryani, you name it. It's not like we lived poorly... But not having dependents, renting, living in a LCOL City and then eventually a second income is what made the difference.
 
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As per “Rich dad vs Poor Dad”.... paraphrasing of course.... but a big difference between those that are rich, and those that want to be rich but aren’t, is being able to use debt in your favor!!! Debt is not a bad thing just as long as you are smart about it!!! It makes no sense other than the “fear” of debt that makes someone pay off a loan at 2.5% faster then they need to. If you can learn the tricks that allow debt to make you rich... then I think people might not fear it as much ‍♂!!!

...but there's more to it than that. Rich v Poor is a great start for so so many. However, those of us on this forum should be able to acknowledge that 3.5% mortgage on a rental is WAY better debt than 2.1% on student loans.

I can't produce the maths atm, but even GVeers would acknowledge that paying off a student loan at 3.5% asap if you are going to pick up similar <5% debt for an investment (ie rental property) is way better than trying to benefit in the marginal return from invested money (eg stock with 6-7% return) over slowly paying student loan debt at 3.5%.

This distinction is especially important for EM docs making more than 350K and those who live in high tax states.

HH
 
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I'd recommend for help with investing for retirement. Fully automated, helpful projections, just so easy.

One positive about buying a home right now is that interest rates are so low. The amount of interest you end up paying is crazy low these days.
 
I'd recommend for help with investing for retirement. Fully automated, helpful projections, just so easy.

One positive about buying a home right now is that interest rates are so low. The amount of interest you end up paying is crazy low these days.

Wealthfront is probably better with it's better tax loss harvesting.

At the same time Axos invest (wise bunyan previously) did the same thing at a much lower cost, and has very reasonable caps on the fee, so it's worth a consideration.

Even better is m1finance if you feel comfortable making your own pie, the rest m1 does for free pretty much.

And lastly, why would you pay 0.25 percent when you can simply just buy a Target date fund and not really do anything? I guess maybe you can get that money back in tax loss harvesting technically speaking.
 
Well, there's blood in the streets now. Buy Buy Buy.
 
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Wealthfront is probably better with it's better tax loss harvesting.

At the same time Axos invest (wise bunyan previously) did the same thing at a much lower cost, and has very reasonable caps on the fee, so it's worth a consideration.

Even better is m1finance if you feel comfortable making your own pie, the rest m1 does for free pretty much.

And lastly, why would you pay 0.25 percent when you can simply just buy a Target date fund and not really do anything? I guess maybe you can get that money back in tax loss harvesting technically speaking.
I’ve been trying to understand why I should pay wealthfront .2% or whatever it is for he ‘tax loss harvesting’ relative to just buying the cheapest vanguard index fund. My wife thinks it’s worth the .2% or whatever it is but we can’t identify how much that purported benefit is worth, or if it’s just their scam to get people to think they’re adding value.

Anyone have a good source for me to read on this so I’m not completely ignorant on the subject?
 
Well done.

But I think to answer why people take 10+ years to do it:

1: For some people, waiting 10 years for PSLF keeps payments low, can make loans cost significantly less in total.

2: Not everyone gets lucky in the stock martket. I'm not saying you only made money because you got lucky, but everyone looks like a genius in a bull market. Would you advise a medical student to take out an extra 10k/year in loans and invest in TSLA, FB, and AMZN?

3: Not everyone can make 450k/year and still be happy. Sometimes things like living near family are more important that loan payments. And if that's in Denver, good luck paying your loans off in 6 attending paychecks making 140/hr.

In any case, you did really well with your money! Congrats!

It's definitely a story worth sharing. Although not everything is easily replicable, I think a few things are:

1: Get a roommate in school/residency. Lower your housing costs.
2: Don't be afraid to moonlight, put that money toward your loans.
3: Know your worth and negotiate your salaries.
4: Consider geographical arbitrage. Make more money to live somewhere less desirable.
5: Apply for scholarships.
Problem with PSLF is that you have a long payoff horizon and you have to count on Congress not screwing you by the time 10 years is up, as well as actually getting approved since 99.9% of requests are rejected.
 
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I’ve been trying to understand why I should pay wealthfront .2% or whatever it is for he ‘tax loss harvesting’ relative to just buying the cheapest vanguard index fund. My wife thinks it’s worth the .2% or whatever it is but we can’t identify how much that purported benefit is worth, or if it’s just their scam to get people to think they’re adding value.

Anyone have a good source for me to read on this so I’m not completely ignorant on the subject?

I don't know a great deal about Wealthfront, but if you plan to invest in Vanguard ETF and Mutual Funds, obviously you are going to miss out on savings by not being able to take advantage of admiral shares, low cost expense ratios, etc.. if you went with another brokerage account. Vanguard offers all the services that I see listed on Wealthfront. Personal Advisory Services has roboinvesting, personalized asset management, tax loss harvesting, etc.. I think if you want your entire portfolio managed and optimized, it's about 0.3% which is not much more than Wealthfront, except you have your advisor on auto dial anytime you want to discuss. Vanguard ETFs and Mutual Funds are infinitely easy investments though. It's really not rocket science. Tax loss harvesting doesn't apply to tax deferred retirement accounts such as your SEP or Roth IRA, so it's really only something you need to worry about in taxable accounts. Even then, there's a lot of debate on whether it's a good idea or not. However, if you want to tax harvest, then it's extremely simple to do it yourself. I.E. Stock A gained 10%, Stock B lost 10%. Sell Stock B at a loss and invest in Stock C. Presto...Schedule D on your 1040 d/t "wash-sale rule". It's not hard, you don't need to pay anyone to do that for you.
 
Stop spreading misinformation.

The requests that we're rejected were from applicants that didn't follow the rules and thus ineligible to apply.
Problem with PSLF is that you have a long payoff horizon and you have to count on Congress not screwing you by the time 10 years is up, as well as actually getting approved since 99.9% of requests are rejected.

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I’ve been trying to understand why I should pay wealthfront .2% or whatever it is for he ‘tax loss harvesting’ relative to just buying the cheapest vanguard index fund. My wife thinks it’s worth the .2% or whatever it is but we can’t identify how much that purported benefit is worth, or if it’s just their scam to get people to think they’re adding value.

Anyone have a good source for me to read on this so I’m not completely ignorant on the subject?

Wealthfront has a fairly informational white paper on this. They estimate that the benefit, as far as i remember, is around 0.8% on the back tests that they did. Im not entirely sure if that holds over time.

Theoretically tax loss harvesting only works when a stock or fund drops below purchase price. If you've been investing over 20 years, most likely your first 15 years of investments will all be up, you'll keep paying 0.25 percent on those without ever needing/using tax loss harvesting for these "old" investments.

It's really just the new money over the last few years that benefits from tax loss harvesting as the market fluctuates. So over time, that 0.25 percent will be very expensive if you have a large portfolio in comparison to your annual contribution.

For example: even with this correction, really it's just the investments over the last 5-6 months that are going to be in the negative. Everything else is still in the green, so no tax loss harvesting...

And I've done a lot of research on this, i also personally have a wealthfront account which had a very small amount in there. If i use a robo advisor for the tax benefit, it will be wise bunyun. Then if the markets are down, i can do one click, turn on tax loss harvesting for 0.02% for that month, have the software automatically take all the tax loss benefit, and then turn off the feature next month and go back to having the roboadvisor for free. Plus even if i have a huge portfolio, the fee there is capped at $20/month (at least for now)
 
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Then you're not looking for jobs in the SE. Definitely won't make that NE or NW.

SE? Southeast? I would imagine you can make that in Nowhereland USA, but outside of that, I find the figures doubtful. No one wants to live in Texarkana or something. Seems to me OP just wants to flaunt a supposedly high salary.
 
SE? Southeast? I would imagine you can make that in Nowhereland USA, but outside of that, I find the figures doubtful. No one wants to live in Texarkana or something. Seems to me OP just wants to flaunt a supposedly high salary.

Working in the mid west. 55 minutes away from a 300-500k sized metro.

What does residency graduation have to do with EM salaries? You talk as if salaries in EM go up with seniority... Only in a sdg when you become partner they go up with time....... Otherwise a fresh grad makes as much as the other guys on an hourly basis. That's just emergency medicine.

I'm pretty sure there are jobs for 315/hr in Mississippi, el paso, and several jobs up to 350/hr in South Texas on the border.
 
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Hey.... You can say I'm flaunting, sure. I'm proud of being debt free so fast after graduation.

Instead of getting so skeptical about my salary, consider the fact that the next time they tell you "our hourly rate is just standard" they are just lying to you. Yeah i heard that a lot too - until the sdg i was talking to bumped it by 15/hr, and the other site i was talking to bumped that standard rate by 30/hr. Infact the medical director of the other place called and was like "hey don't tell anyone else but we're offering you this"
 
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SE? Southeast? I would imagine you can make that in Nowhereland USA, but outside of that, I find the figures doubtful. No one wants to live in Texarkana or something. Seems to me OP just wants to flaunt a supposedly high salary.


Do you really think it's that hard to make 450k as a NOCTURNIST in emergency medicine? I make $30/hr more than the average of my state, and that too as a nocturnist..... That's really not that impressive. What general veers makes at his gigs is impressive.
 
Hey.... You can say I'm flaunting, sure. I'm proud of being debt free so fast after graduation.

Instead of getting so skeptical about my salary, consider the fact that the next time they tell you "our hourly rate is just standard" they are just lying to you. Yeah i heard that a lot too - until the sdg i was talking to bumped it by 15/hr, and the other site i was talking to bumped that standard rate by 30/hr. Infact the medical director of the other place called and was like "hey don't tell anyone else but we're offering you this"
Ok, whatever you say. I have not seen a single job in my area in EM (I'm not EM btw) for that - so perhaps if you are in nowhere land that's reasonable but I doubt that the average EM salary is 450. I'll leave it at that. I have no doubt that you want to "impress' but that's ok. Good luck with your job.
 
Ok, whatever you say. I have not seen a single job in my area in EM (I'm not EM btw) for that - so perhaps if you are in nowhere land that's reasonable but I doubt that the average EM salary is 450. I'll leave it at that. I have no doubt that you want to "impress' but that's ok. Good luck with your job.

Exactly. You are not EM. You haven't gone through negotiations of an EM contract. So you really don't know do you?

I didn't say the average is 450k. I posted the average from acep in the post for every state. You literally just had to click on the link. The average for my state is 400k per the acep website. Naturally as a nocturnist, I'm a little higher.

Your not having seen jobs when you're not even in the field really doesn't count. No wonder you seen to think that seniority has something to do with compensation in EM. It doesn't, unless you are partnership track in sdg. Pretty sure a pgy3 moonlighter will be on the same hourly as a seasoned 10 years in doc at most places in emergency medicine.
 
Stop spreading misinformation.

The requests that we're rejected were from applicants that didn't follow the rules and thus ineligible to apply.

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Correct me if I'm wrong (I may very well be), but one party gets to change the rules of the game anytime they want. That's not a good arrangement.

Yes; this is expound-able to nearly every CMG contract. But at least then, you only feel betrayed by old, buttery, greedy vasculopaths instead of your own government.
 
Here's a little post for inspiration. I personally don't understand when people take 10+ years to pay off their student loans. Financial independence is key so you don't HAVE to work, but you work because you WANT to work.

In total I had acquired about 175-180k of debt, after interest in total I paid $195K roughly.15-20k of this was college, the rest med school. I was a completely traditional student - no career prior to college or med school. In fact, I had moved from the other side of the world for college as a freshmen and that itself came with it's culture shock, social and financial challenges.


Things that helped me pay off student debt this quickly.

1) Less debt than most people mostly because of scholarships/need based aid in college. In state tuition in a cheap texas med school ~ 17-18k annual tuition.

2) Lived very cheaply in college and med school. I did max out on loans in med school, but I basically had an excess 8-10K every year, most of that was invested in the market. I did not know the boglehead principles at that time, I was not a believer of buy and hold strategy, but I still made some small amounts of money. I owned Tesla at $80, FB at $26, Amazon at $230. But as a broke med student, when I made 10% or so on my investments, I happily took the profits. If I had done buy and hold, the 30k that I had invested at some point in the market would have been 200K today. My two investment accounts were both margin accounts, I did swing trading (scraped small profits anytime that I got them). Only made a few thousand dollars - but learned a lot about investing over the years and now I'm a full supporter of a boring 3 fund portfolio and believer of the boglehead philosophy.

Investing mistakes I made: Did not do buy and hold otherwise I could have paid my debt even before residency ended. Did not fully understand IRAs or retirement accounts as everything went into post tax accounts. Lets face it, I was still new to the country.

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3) I made $300/month payments in residency, every now and then made bigger payments that I could.

4) PGY 3 I moonlighted and made an extra 40-45kK - Almost all of that after paying taxes was used to pay off debt. More or less, I always carried 30-40k in my emergency fund account for a rainy day (acquired from extra loans/investments as talked about in point 2). I had done calculations in med school how much interest that extra loan money would cost me, the security of having money in the bank was worth the extra interest - I mobilized a lot of those funds to pay off more debt when I started moonlighting. Felt comfortable doing that once moonlighting money started coming in. So in essence emergency funds didn't need to be at 40K when I could just moonlight and make 2-3k a shift and be paid within a month.

5) Residency was in a LCOL city - Rent was $850/month for a 2b/1bath apt. Spouse started residency when I was PGY3, so that added another income. Our living expenses were easily paid with 1 resident salary. Was able to make bigger payments.

6) Negotiated like crazy my attending job. Made companies beat each other's offer. Eventually signed for roughly $450k IC annually for 12 12s a month. I went for the highest bidder. I don't love my job, It is stressful, but ER is stressful.

7) I only had $147K of debt left when I finished residency and started being an attending - effectively I had paid about 40-45K while a resident. Large chunks from moonlighting and large chunks from mobilizing extra funds that I didn't really need anymore due to increasing income.

6)First attending paycheck arrived 8/15/19 for half a month of work. Paid 10k from that Once the attending paycheck was coming, I pretty much mobilized even more savings/investments the moment I got my first attending paycheck, who needs an emergency fund when every paycheck is an emergency fund. Every subsequent month, I paid 20k essentially from my salary. So between 8/15/19 and 2/9/20 I essentially paid the remaining 147K and whatever interest that accumulated.

Other side notes, never bought a home, always rented, bought two cars in residency (used 2015 GMC terrain, and new 2017 sonata), owe 11k combined on the both of them at this time.

And yes, if you're wondering, I did pay my IC taxes. I've been financially independent since Sophomore year of college. Received 5K from my father and a ticket from Pakistan to the USA as a freshmen in college. They also paid for half of my wedding, I paid the other half. Otherwise I've been on my own.

Future plans: Networth right now at 80K. 200-250k in annual savings goal. Will max 56k into solo 401k, then 12k backdoor roths, then max wife's retirement account, then whatever is left into personal investing accounts.

I can retire with 1 million in savings in 5 years at age 35 if I wanted to, but that will require moving back to Pakistan. I believe I need 4 million in the US to retire comfortably.

What was the interest rate on the school loans?
Is 4 mill enough to retire comfortably in the US? Retirement and what age?
 
The only jobs I know of in my local area for under $400k/year are partner track jobs.
Ok, whatever you say. I have not seen a single job in my area in EM (I'm not EM btw) for that - so perhaps if you are in nowhere land that's reasonable but I doubt that the average EM salary is 450. I'll leave it at that. I have no doubt that you want to "impress' but that's ok. Good luck with your job.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong (I may very well be), but one party gets to change the rules of the game anytime they want. That's not a good arrangement.

Yes; this is expound-able to nearly every CMG contract. But at least then, you only feel betrayed by old, buttery, greedy vasculopaths instead of your own government.
There has been no rule changing on behalf of anyone so far. Can it theoretically happen? Yep. That's part of why I refinanced instead of trying for PSLF (among other reasons). That said, all those rejections happened overwhelmingly because the people who applied for forgiveness were idiots. Well over 50% who applied hadn't even been in repayment for 10 years. The rest had either things like parental plus loans (not eligible), didn't have the correct work history (not eligible), had never filed any of the required paperwork etc etc.

If you're going to do PSLF, read the damn terms of the contract. If you don't and it turns out 10 years down the road that you don't qualify, that isn't the government's fault.
 
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What was the interest rate on the school loans?
Is 4 mill enough to retire comfortably in the US? Retirement and what age?

If you can't be financially independent and/or retire on 4 million dollars in America, you have a spending problem.
 
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If you can't be financially independent and/or retire on 4 million dollars in America, you have a spending problem.
Difference between can and want to. I could live on 50k a year. My FI goal is $5M plus no debt / mortgage etc. As a bonus I want some rental income as this would deflect potential market losses in a given year. the $5m is more than enough for me.. like i said I could make it on 50k a year and could definitely do it when my kids are out of the house and off the payroll.
 
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The question asked was CAN, not want to...
 
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What was the interest rate on the school loans?
Is 4 mill enough to retire comfortably in the US? Retirement and what age?

A combination of 5.1, 6.2, and 6.8 percent.

4 million with a 3 percent withdrawal rate is 120k/yr. Sounds like plenty of money. If i play life right, I'll probably have some passive income streams as well by that time, including side businesses and rental income. And maybe if social security still exists by the time im in my 60s, then that's another income source. So yes, 4 mil is plenty i think.

I think it will take me 15-20 years or so to build a net worth North of 4 mil, so age 45-50. Really comes down to how generous the market is over the next two decades.
 
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A combination of 5.1, 6.2, and 6.8 percent.

4 million with a 3 percent withdrawal rate is 120k/yr. Sounds like plenty of money. If i play life right, I'll probably have some passive income streams as well by that time, including side businesses and rental income. And maybe if social security still exists by the time im in my 60s, then that's another income source. So yes, 4 mil is plenty i think.

I think it will take me 15-20 years or so to build a net worth North of 4 mil, so age 45-50. Really comes down to how generous the market is over the next two decades.
Your savings up front matters more than the market. Tuck away 200k+ for 3-5 years and you are set.
 
Your savings up front matters more than the market. Tuck away 200k+ for 3-5 years and you are set.

How would that work? Tucking away 200k for 3-5 years - where do you typically invest?
 
ETFs. broad market. If you could do 200k for 5 years thats $1m (assuming no growth during those 5 years). If you dont put another penny in there using the rule of 72 and a 8% return (which isnt nuts) thats $4M in 18 years. Again, thats assuming after the first million you never save another penny which would of course be unlikely. More likely you could save 100k for 5 years and 57+k after (since this seems to go up often) (lets use 57 for an example to make the math easy).

You would hit $4M in year 22. Of course there is inflation. Still puts you at early 50s and doesnt include other investments like a home, real estate investments etc.

Its all doable. To me easier to work more and earn more when young and enjoy the power of compound interest. It is very hard to delay gratification even further.

As far as accounts.. this is going to depend on your situation.

the 57k should be a given. if you have a family another 7k in HSA (64K) total. Backdoor IRAs (12K more). 76k. DB plan (if you have it), spouses 401k if working, otherwise you need to do in post tax accounts. If you plan on retiring early you need money in non retirement accounts to avoid the penalties anyhow though there are some ways to get some money out without penalty. I can not recall them here.
 
If you plan on retiring early you need money in non retirement accounts to avoid the penalties anyhow though there are some ways to get some money out without penalty. I can not recall them here.
Roth IRA conversion ladder. Requires you to start setting it up 5 years before you retire but not difficult to do once you know that timeframe.

Edit: also, the 57k you mentioned is only a given if you're a 1099 employee or have a generous employer match as a W2
 
Roth IRA conversion ladder. Requires you to start setting it up 5 years before you retire but not difficult to do once you know that timeframe.

Edit: also, the 57k you mentioned is only a given if you're a 1099 employee or have a generous employer match as a W2
I am aware. most docs I know have this as an option. the DB plan is rare.. either way it is doable. you have to know your options. I review almost every one of my residents contracts and over the past 3 years not a single one took a job at a place that wasnt either a 1099 or didnt have the option to do 50k+ in retirement.
 
A combination of 5.1, 6.2, and 6.8 percent.

4 million with a 3 percent withdrawal rate is 120k/yr. Sounds like plenty of money. If i play life right, I'll probably have some passive income streams as well by that time, including side businesses and rental income. And maybe if social security still exists by the time im in my 60s, then that's another income source. So yes, 4 mil is plenty i think.

I think it will take me 15-20 years or so to build a net worth North of 4 mil, so age 45-50. Really comes down to how generous the market is over the next two decades.
Do side gigs and realty count as retirement? Sounds like you're still working
 
Your savings up front matters more than the market. Tuck away 200k+ for 3-5 years and you are set.

That's the plan. 200k annual contribution is the goal. Maybe 250k when the wife is an attending in 1.5 years
 
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