80 k merit scholarship vs. dream school with 180 k debt?

[snowys435]

Maybe some of you will recognize this from a thread I posted last week but the situation has changed so I'm positing again ( sorry to annoy anyone).

Long story short I got off a waitlist last week to a "dream school" and ultimately decided to go recently but today my state school offered me 80 K in merit scholarships, and with my parents pitching in for food and housing ( about 40 K), I'd graduate with about 40 K in debt. If I got no help and received no scholarships I'd graduate with 160 K. My dream school offered about 15 k in need based grants, and with my parents pitching in 50 K, it would be about 180 K debt.

I re-visted my dream school and honestly loved it and ultimately decided I was willing to take on the extra debt before I got this scholarship. Now, even with the scholarships I'm having doubts about accepting it because I'm wondering if my personal happiness and dreams are worth more.

Has anyone made a similar decision ? How did you feel about it in retrospect?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Person0715]

If I were in your shoes, I would choose the school with less debt. What are the pros and cons of each school?

 

[snowys435]

If I were in your shoes, I would choose the school with less debt. What are the pros and cons of each school?

NYU
LOCATION
Pros
curriculum
liked student body more
nice expensive resources like sim lab etc.
pass fail

Cons
Cost

University of Maryland
Pros
cheap
overall matches really well and pretty comparable to NYU program wise

Cons
hate baltimore
not in love with the student body
not in love with the curriculum
not pass fail


With that said, I really love NYU but there's nothing particularly bad about UMD I guess. It's a great program objectively speaking. I just don't really like it much.

 

[claduva94]

It really comes down to whether your dreams and happiness are worth 30k per year. Only you can decide that. Personally, I'd go with the cheaper school unless Dream School>>>State School, which doesn't seem to be the case. Some of your cons for Maryland are things you have minimal exposure to (curriculum and student body). So I would highly suggest weighing the money. The advice I continue to get is to graduate with as little debt as possible.

 

[Comeonhavefun]

Go to University of Maryland. Know what sucks more than Baltimore? A 180k in debt. NYC is good and everything, but it is no Florida or California. Allopathic school is a MD school whatever the curriculum is or grading scale is. If you want to go to NYC find a residency there.

 

[DermViser]

NYU
LOCATION
Pros
curriculum
liked student body more
nice expensive resources like sim lab etc.
pass fail

Cons
Cost

University of Maryland
Pros
cheap
overall matches really well and pretty comparable to NYU program wise

Cons
hate baltimore
not in love with the student body
not in love with the curriculum
not pass fail


With that said, I really love NYU but there's nothing particularly bad about UMD I guess. It's a great program objectively speaking. I just don't really like it much.

What did you not like about the student body, curriculum, of Maryland?

 

[Optimus-Prime]

UMD is a great school and nothing to snuff at, unless you have dreams of academia

 

[Person0715]

Actually, I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes since NYU is one of my top choices as well. You have a tough decision ahead of you, but either way, you have two great options.

 

[La Presse]

You can ALWAYS go to New York for residency. I'd graduate with less debt.

Edit - ....then again, this is Langone Medical Center in NYC we are talking about. TBH, i'd choose NYU over UMD. Also, it P/F, even if it is ONLY for pre-clinical years.

 

[snowys435]

UMD is a great school and nothing to snuff at, unless you have dreams of academia

I have no idea what I want to do. Would UMD hold me back from that?

 

[ts173]

I definitely would take the school with less debt since they both seem comparable through the match. Unless you absolutely can't stand UMD and think you would be miserable there I think 140k is a substantial savings especially when you consider interest rates just went up.

 

[snowys435]

I definitely would take the school with less debt since they both seem comparable through the match. Unless you absolutely can't stand UMD and think you would be miserable there I think 140k is a substantial savings especially when you consider interest rates just went up.

I mean I kind of just glanced at both match lists. How do I properly compare a match list to see if one is really "better"

 

[snowys435]

You can ALWAYS go to New York for residency. I'd graduate with less debt.

But won't I be too busy in residency to enjoy life? Thats really what I keep coming back to. the "prime" of my life will be gone.

 

[xffan624]

But won't I be too busy in residency to enjoy life? Thats really what I keep coming back to. the "prime" of my life will be gone.

That's a silly way to approach things. You're what? 22? The prime of your life is for a long time. You will want that 140K when you're starting as attending and wanting to jetset around the world during your vacay or start a family. You will have plenty of time to enjoy NYC and enjoying it as a resident is far superior to enjoying it as medical student. As a medical student, every dollar you take out and spend living it up in NYC will gain many more in interest.

 

[snowys435]

What did you not like about the student body, curriculum, of Maryland?

UMD is not pass fail, doesn't have the modern structure, and doesn't allow for elective time. student body wise I guess people just didn't seem very intense, driven, or intellectual and i guess that was what I was used to in undergrad. Idk. its hard to explain but I just did not click with them but I did get that at NYU.

 

[DermViser]

UMD is not pass fail, doesn't have the modern structure, and doesn't allow for elective time. student body wise I guess people just didn't seem very intense, driven, or intellectual and i guess that was what I was used to in undergrad. Idk. its hard to explain but I just did not click with them but I did get that at NYU.

Which might mean you would do better there, vs. NYU where people are more intense/driven etc. That being said, "true" P/F is hard to pass up.

 

[snowys435]

Which might mean you would do better there, vs. NYU where people are more intense/driven etc. That being said, "true" P/F is hard to pass up.

UMD actually has grades. It's not even "fake" pass fail. Idk maybe part of this is the snobby in me and I felt that at maryland the students weren't as high a caliber. please don't bite my head off for this anyone! I'm not trying to insult or be mean. it's just how I felt. I think part of that might be because I went to a top 10 undergrad and that's what Im used to so a state school is a shift for me.

 

[Fabio Lanzoni]

NYU's true p/f is only good pre-clinical anyway. You're getting ranked one way or another eventually.

 

[DermViser]

UMD actually has grades. It's not even "fake" pass fail. Idk maybe part of this is the snobby in me and I felt that at maryland the students weren't as high a caliber. please don't bite my head off for this anyone! I'm not trying to insult or be mean. it's just how I felt. I think part of that might be because I went to a top 10 undergrad and that's what Im used to so a state school is a shift for me.

Only 40 K of debt is a very enviable position but if letter grades will hinder you, then probably best not to go. NYU is true P/F in preclinicals with 1.5 year preclinicals I believe. Might be harder to be top of your class at NYU though.

 

[snowys435]

Only 40 K of debt is a very enviable position but if letter grades will hinder you, then probably best not to go. NYU is true P/F in preclinicals with 1.5 year preclinicals I believe. Might be harder to be top of your class at NYU though.

Would it be better to be top of my class at UMD vs. middle at NYU? Or would the prestige at NYU help me out in the long run and would be worth the debt?

 

[DermViser]

Would it be better to be top of my class at UMD vs. middle at NYU? Or would the prestige at NYU help me out in the long run and would be worth the debt?

Being at the top of your class is always a good thing, although that's hard to tease out beforehand that you will be at the top. You can't always tell that based on student body personality. Your specialty you're going for is also important.

What are the average board scores out of UMD vs NYU? How much protected time do you get to study for Step 1 at both schools? What are the time schedules like in the first 2 years at both schools?

 

[snowys435]

Being at the top of your class is always a good thing, although that's hard to tease out beforehand that you will be at the top. You can't always tell that based on student body personality. Your specialty you're going for is also important.

What are the average board scores out of UMD vs NYU? How much protected time do you get to study for Step 1 at both schools? What are the time schedules like in the first 2 years at both schools?

I can't remember exactly but I think UMD is 236, and NYU is 241. or maybe im making that up. but its what i recall. So umd, you take step after second year...not sure how long you get to study...at nyu you take it in third year after clinicals....UMD has 8-12 schedule...NYU kind of has a variation on that and classes go till 3 some days.

 

[DermViser]

I can't remember exactly but I think UMD is 236, and NYU is 241. or maybe im making that up. but its what i recall. So umd, you take step after second year...not sure how long you get to study...at nyu you take it in third year after clinicals....UMD has 8-12 schedule...NYU kind of has a variation on that and classes go till 3 some days.

236 vs. 241 -- that's a tossup. (average right now is 227); I guess it comes down to how much protected time you have after classes are over to take Step 1. 8-12 is a pretty nice schedule to have and you get 2 full years to do so.

How is the grading like during clerkships?

 

[Aerus]

Would it be better to be top of my class at UMD vs. middle at NYU? Or would the prestige at NYU help me out in the long run and would be worth the debt?

If you're at the middle of the class at NYU, there is no way you'll be at the top of your class at UMD with a similar work ethic. People often underestimate just how driven people are at all med schools in the US.

 

[Lya]

If you cannot absolutely convince yourself that you will be happy at UMD, I would consider still going to NYU (even though UMD is a fabulous state school and their difference is not much significant).

Maybe I am putting too much emphasis on being happy and being motivated to excel for 4 years. I hope that you will not yourself "What if?" after you graduate from UMD.

 

[DermViser]

If you're at the middle of the class at NYU, there is no way you'll be at the top of your class at UMD with a similar work ethic. People often underestimate just how driven people are at all med schools in the US.

It's more than just work ethic. It depends on the composition of your class on how easy it will be to be at the top.

 

[allantois]

I have long advocated for lesser debt on similar threads. However, this time I would choose the dream school because the final debt is not something unmanageable (e.g. we are not talking about 200k vs. 400 k).

 

[Aerus]

It's more than just work ethic. It depends on the composition of your class on how easy it will be to be at the top.

Yes, but I would argue that the composition of the med school class tend to be pretty similar between the two. Now, will the composition between the "top 5" med schools and "bottom 5" med schools be different? Yes, but the difference between UMD and NYU is not significant enough to think that one who would be plain average will suddenly be the top of UMD.

Instead, given the similarities of caliber of both classes, differences in quality and quantity of work put in will determine class rankings in the two schools more than the caliber of the class.

 

[snowys435]

I have long advocated for lesser debt on similar threads. However, this time I would choose the dream school because the final debt is not something unmanageable (e.g. we are not talking about 200k vs. 400 k).

I wish I knew how it felt to have 200 k debt after med school. Honestly, when I visited again I loved nyc and it would be an amazing 4 years. The initial 160 k vs 220 k difference felt worth it to now. Now I don't know if it would be stupid to turn down graduating basically debt free. Will I hate myself as a resident with that debt? Will I feel bitter about doing medicine and feel tired down? or I'll hate myself more for not going where I ended up deciding to go.

 

[snowys435]

Being at the top of your class is always a good thing, although that's hard to tease out beforehand that you will be at the top. You can't always tell that based on student body personality. Your specialty you're going for is also important.

What are the average board scores out of UMD vs NYU? How much protected time do you get to study for Step 1 at both schools? What are the time schedules like in the first 2 years at both schools?

never mind. UMD step average is a 230. I just double checked. I dont know if that has to do with difference in curriculum or just difference in personal motivation among students across schools. But that's more of a significant difference. maybe i'd do a lot better if i went to nyu?

 

[Psai]

I think the financial aspect of it is a very important consideration. But if you want to go to nyu, just go to nyu. No need to have people tell you about the debt and make up a million arguments trying to justify your decision. Make a choice (seems like you really want to go to nyu) and stick with it. Don't second guess yourself.

 

[DermViser]

never mind. UMD step average is a 230. I just double checked. I dont know if that has to do with difference in curriculum or just difference in personal motivation among students across schools. But that's more of a significant difference. maybe i'd do a lot better if i went to nyu?

Then that's not as impressive now, as the national average on Step 1 currently is 228 (I was off by 1 previously).

 

[DermViser]

I think the financial aspect of it is a very important consideration. But if you want to go to nyu, just go to nyu. No need to have people tell you about the debt and make up a million arguments trying to justify your decision. Make a choice (seems like you really want to go to nyu) and stick with it. Don't second guess yourself.

40K vs. 180K is a huge difference in debt though. That being said we have no idea what his performance will be.

 

[snowys435]

Then that's not as impressive now, as the national average on Step 1 currently is 228 (I was off by 1 previously).

I think it's higher though. I may need to double check my numbers.

I think the financial aspect of it is a very important consideration. But if you want to go to nyu, just go to nyu. No need to have people tell you about the debt and make up a million arguments trying to justify your decision. Make a choice (seems like you really want to go to nyu) and stick with it. Don't second guess yourself.

I did make a choice and I picked NYU and was fine with the difference in debt being about 20 or 30 k with my parents pitching in before interest. Now the difference is more like 140 K. I don't know if I should still ignore that or the change in magnitude does matter. I no longer even have a gut feeling about where I want to go. Before, i'd been feeling the difference is debt was not so much I would go where I really wanted to go and not regret the financial aspect since I was racking up tons of loans either way.

 

[snowys435]

Then that's not as impressive now, as the national average on Step 1 currently is 228 (I was off by 1 previously).

I think it's higher though. I may need to double check my numbers.

I think the financial aspect of it is a very important consideration. But if you want to go to nyu, just go to nyu. No need to have people tell you about the debt and make up a million arguments trying to justify your decision. Make a choice (seems like you really want to go to nyu) and stick with it. Don't second guess yourself.

I did make a choice and I picked NYU and was fine with the difference in debt being about 20 or 30 k with my parents pitching in before interest. Now the difference is more like 140 K. I don't know if I should still ignore that or the change in magnitude does matter. I no longer even have a gut feeling about where I want to go. Before, i'd been feeling the difference is debt was not so much I would go where I really wanted to go and not regret the financial aspect since I was racking up tons of loans either way.

 

[DermViser]

I think it's higher though. I may need to double check my numbers.

No, the current USMLE Step 1 average is 228: http://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/pdf/usmle1-13.pdf

 

[snowys435]

No, the current USMLE Step 1 average is 228: http://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/pdf/usmle1-13.pdf

I meant the UMD average. The girl I asked seemed to thin national average was a 220 and maryland was about a 230. She may be off by 10 points. I think it might be safest to email admisisons.

 

[snowys435]

I meant the UMD average. The girl I asked seemed to thin national average was a 220 and maryland was about a 230. She may be off by 10 points. I think it might be safest to email admisisons.

I guess I feel like I would be dumb to turn down that much money but I feel really disgruntled about it and just really want to go to NYU. But maybe that's a short sighted decision. idk.

 

[QofQuimica]

I guess I feel like I would be dumb to turn down that much money but I feel really disgruntled about it and just really want to go to NYU. But maybe that's a short sighted decision. idk.

It would be beyond dumb and shortsighted. You should take the scholarship, promise to buy your parents something extra nice with your first attending paycheck in return for helping you make this dream come true basically for free, and go visit NYC on vacation.

 

[username456789]

NYU
LOCATION
Pros
curriculum
liked student body more
nice expensive resources like sim lab etc.
pass fail

Cons
Cost

University of Maryland
Pros
cheap
overall matches really well and pretty comparable to NYU program wise

Cons
hate baltimore
not in love with the student body
not in love with the curriculum
not pass fail


With that said, I really love NYU but there's nothing particularly bad about UMD I guess. It's a great program objectively speaking. I just don't really like it much.

Maybe it's because I absolutely despise NYC, but you would be a complete fool to pass up that kind of opportunity at Maryland. Go to UMD and never look back.

 

[RangerBob]

I would go with UMD--it's a good school and it saves you a lot of money. But at the same time, it seems you really want to go to NYU and live in NYC. Honestly the $150k difference is a lot of money, but paying back $180k is still doable no matter what specialty you go into.

I think when you're a resident/attending you will wish you went to the cheaper school, but it's possible you'd feel the opposite way (only you will know that). Had I gotten into my state school, in hindsight I would have gone there over where I went, and I felt my school was the perfect fit after all my interviews. I have quite a bit of debt (more than the $180k you're potentially looking at) and it does make me very nervous, but what can I do now other than pay it off? Cie la vie. Borrowing as little as possible is the best way to minimize your debt, and going to UMD vs NYU would be a huge step in that direction.

Have you tried contacting NYU and letting them know about your dilemma? Sounds like it's clearly your first choice, and money is really the only reason you're thinking about UMD. Sometimes schools will offer you a bit more aid. I doubt it would be that substantial, but it might be worth the try. I would certainly try if I were in your shoes.

 

[snowys435]

It would be beyond dumb and shortsighted. You should take the scholarship, promise to buy your parents something extra nice with your first attending paycheck in return for helping you make this dream come true basically for free, and go visit NYC on vacation.

Is a 200 k debt really going to be that horrible after I finish med school? What about personal happiness and dreams and not having regrets? what if I'm always like how would my life have been different if I went to nyu? Does that not count for anything? Or you think in the long run I won't feel that way and I'm only feeling this way because I am being short sighted.

 

[snowys435]

I would go with UMD--it's a good school and it saves you a lot of money. But at the same time, it seems you really want to go to NYU and live in NYC. Honestly the $150k difference is a lot of money, but paying back $180k is still doable no matter what specialty you go into.

I think when you're a resident/attending you will wish you went to the cheaper school, but it's possible you'd feel the opposite way (only you will know that). Had I gotten into my state school, in hindsight I would have gone there over where I went, and I felt my school was the perfect fit after all my interviews. I have quite a bit of debt (more than the $180k you're potentially looking at) and it does make me very nervous, but what can I do now other than pay it off? Cie la vie. Borrowing as little as possible is the best way to minimize your debt, and going to UMD vs NYU would be a huge step in that direction.

Have you tried contacting NYU and letting them know about your dilemma? Sounds like it's clearly your first choice, and money is really the only reason you're thinking about UMD. Sometimes schools will offer you a bit more aid. I doubt it would be that substantial, but it might be worth the try. I would certainly try if I were in your shoes.

Do you think if call admissions tomorrow and ask to speak to the dean and that it was urget/ about merit scholarships I'd be allowed to? I would basically want to tell him NYU is my dream and exactly where I want to go and the decision to go to umd would be solely financial and nothing about the school makes me want to go there. would they be able to match the scholarship. I'd even be ok with 100 k from NYU if they gave me 80 K . It would be more than UMD but still totally worth it and feel doable to me. I'm not sure how to navigate this situation. I am supposed to respond to NYU by tomorrow so all of this will be kind of last minute.

 

[QofQuimica]

Is a 200 k debt really going to be that horrible after I finish med school?

When you had the opportunity to basically have none? Yes.

What about personal happiness and dreams and not having regrets? what if I'm always like how would my life have been different if I went to nyu? Does that not count for anything? Or you think in the long run I won't feel that way and I'm only feeling this way because I am being short sighted.

I think you need to decide what your dream actually is. If your dream is to be a physician and have the ability to enjoy the fruits of your labor a decade from now instead of sending it to the bank, then take the scholarship. But if your life's dream is to live in NYC, heck, just go move there. You don't have to be a med student to live in NYC (and you'll probably enjoy living there a lot more if you actually have an income).

 

[username456789]

Is a 200 k debt really going to be that horrible after I finish med school? What about personal happiness and dreams and not having regrets? what if I'm always like how would my life have been different if I went to nyu? Does that not count for anything? Or you think in the long run I won't feel that way and I'm only feeling this way because I am being short sighted.

For starters, you won't be paying back 200k. Those loans will continue to accrue interest while in medical school and residency.

At some point, you'll transition from "I'm a one man (or woman) academic killing machine ready and willing to make any sacrifices I can" to "hey, you know, it might be kind of nice to get married, buy some land, have a kid or two" (or some variation of this). Except that it will be unduly stressful and difficult due to the ever-growing sum of money the government expects from you.

For being relatively intelligent people, most medical students are bad at math - at least when it comes to loans. Plenty of people seem to think "ok, I'll be 200k in debt, and doctors usually make ~$200k/year salaries, so if I just live off of a resident salary for two years as an attending, I'll be debt-free."

These people are in for a very rude awakening.

 

[RangerBob]

Do you think if call admissions tomorrow and ask to speak to the dean and that it was urget/ about merit scholarships I'd be allowed to? I would basically want to tell him NYU is my dream and exactly where I want to go and the decision to go to umd would be solely financial and nothing about the school makes me want to go there. would they be able to match the scholarship. I'd even be ok with 100 k from NYU if they gave me 80 K . It would be more than UMD but still totally worth it and feel doable to me. I'm not sure how to navigate this situation. I am supposed to respond to NYU by tomorrow so all of this will be kind of last minute.

I'm not sure who you would need to talk to (director of financial aid vs. dean of admissions)--I just know people have asked schools for more money and it worked in some cases. But I honestly don't think you'd get $80k (unless they really want you there, but generally NYU can be pickier than other schools and offer less aid). I think getting another $10-20k is possible, but so is getting nothing. But if you have already made your mind to go to NYU (which honestly it sort of sounds like you have, to me) then getting another $10k is $10k less that you need to repay (not taking into account interest).

 

[RangerBob]

Oh--I forgot to mention I wouldn't call this urgent unless you actually need to give an answer to one of these programs ASAP. If you call to talk to the Dean or director of financial aid and they aren't available, it's fine to leave a message saying you wanted to talk about merit scholarships/etc, but I wouldn't say it's urgent--you don't want to look pushy, in my opinion.

 

[snowys435]

I'm not sure who you would need to talk to (director of financial aid vs. dean of admissions)--I just know people have asked schools for more money and it worked in some cases. But I honestly don't think you'd get $80k (unless they really want you there, but generally NYU can be pickier than other schools and offer less aid). I think getting another $10-20k is possible, but so is getting nothing. But if you have already made your mind to go to NYU (which honestly it sort of sounds like you have, to me) then getting another $10k is $10k less that you need to repay (not taking into account interest).

I haven't made my mind up yet. Just tearing my hair out because I have to decide by tomorrow and UMD decided to give me the money on a saturday and theres no way to get in touch with nyu till tomorrow. sigh. I just dont know. I liked it better when I had no choices to make or responsibility to take for decisions.

 

[snowys435]

Oh--I forgot to mention I wouldn't call this urgent unless you actually need to give an answer to one of these programs ASAP. If you call to talk to the Dean or director of financial aid and they aren't available, it's fine to leave a message saying you wanted to talk about merit scholarships/etc, but I wouldn't say it's urgent--you don't want to look pushy, in my opinion.

Oh--I forgot to mention I wouldn't call this urgent unless you actually need to give an answer to one of these programs ASAP. If you call to talk to the Dean or director of financial aid and they aren't available, it's fine to leave a message saying you wanted to talk about merit scholarships/etc, but I wouldn't say it's urgent--you don't want to look pushy, in my opinion.

I need to respond to NYU by tomorrow. Is that urgent enough to call admissions and ask to talk to the dean of admissions? Or would that still be too rude? I really dont know what the proper etiquette is here . I have spoken to the director of financial aid before about need based aid and I really didn't like her much. She is pretty cold and uncaring and I'd prefer talking to someone else if I'm giving this a go.

 

[snowys435]

Would be

Oh--I forgot to mention I wouldn't call this urgent unless you actually need to give an answer to one of these programs ASAP. If you call to talk to the Dean or director of financial aid and they aren't available, it's fine to leave a message saying you wanted to talk about merit scholarships/etc, but I wouldn't say it's urgent--you don't want to look pushy, in my opinion.

would it be less effective if I just emailed he dean of admissions today some time? Or waiting to talk till tomorrow morning may be more effective? I don't know. I just guess this is a ast ditch effort but who knows maybe im ridiculously lucky and it might work. This whole thing has been a weird stroke of luck. If I had never gotten off the NYU waitlist I would have never gotten the chance to go. And maryland wouldn't have given me any money in merit if I didn't have the choice to go to NYU.