80 k merit scholarship vs. dream school with 180 k debt?

[DermViser]

First of all, I didn't write that. I quoted someone else's post that you liked. Second, "these institutions can be so ridiculously picky" "they can ask for interviews of people who went to private prep schools for high school and they would still fill their class" just reinforces their argument that these places are SO competitive that EVERYTHING matters (including your school). Nobody is saying you're guaranteed to stay there if you go to a top 10 or that someone is "entitled" there. That's just your leap in logic. What they ARE saying is "I think we underplay just how much where you're coming from matters," "Indeed, there are exceptions, but you are correct-- it is quite difficult and not at all commonplace for those in lower-tier US MD schools to secure residencies among the most competitive institutions (even among the 250+/AOA crowd)" "... does not make up for the lack of pedigree. It sucks, but it's the way it is." In short: of course no one is guaranteed to match at MGH or UCSF but at least you have a fighting chance coming from a top place.

NOTE: Again, I agree with you that in THIS CASE, taking the money is the best option. I'm just arguing that it's not as simple as everyone is making it out to be. These decisions are really complex and totally depend on the individual.

I emphasized the ACADEMICS aspect of competitive specialties. Applicants from anywhere can break into any field. Can anybody from anywhere break into the TOP ACADEMIC programs in any field? That's what is being debated.

Again, one can have top board scores, AOA and still not get an interview in those top tier institutions. What then?

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[TheRobin]

Again, one can have top board scores, AOA and still not get an interview in those top tier institutions. What then?

To borrow a quote from Good Will Hunting, you then start doing some thinking of your own and realize that you dropped 150 grand on an education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library. Or, for 40k at UMD.

 

[DermViser]

To borrow a quote from Good Will Hunting, you then start doing some thinking of your own and realize that you dropped 150 grand on an education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library. Or, for 40k at UMD.

Exactly.

 

[Greenberg702]

Again, one can have top board scores, AOA and still not get an interview in those top tier institutions. What then?

You match at Penn, Michigan, Cornell, UCLA, or Vanderbilt. If you go to a top 10 and have AOA you're going to get interviewed at those places unless you have red flags. The point is that the basement is higher at those schools.

 

[modelslashactor]

You take the money every time. I'm 4 years out and took a scholarship, best thing I've ever done. I think it's pretty telling that the people who are out of school always unanimously say to take the money when these perennial threads pop up.

My old roommate in residency and I haggled over our shared rent when we moved into our place in an expensive city. He wanted to pay about $100 less a month. I later found out he had about 200k in loans and an extra $100 was a third of his spare cash at the end of a month after he paid his interest. Not too cool.

Good students will do well at any school and UMD is actually a great place, not sure why NYU is supposedly so much better. I was a resident at one of the MGH/UCSF/Penn/Stanford places and yes there are a lot of people from top schools but I'd say over half are not. And can you say that if you took one of those good people and put them in a state school they wouldn't have the same outcome? OP, you made the right decision.

 

[NickNaylor]

I understand that. I have a 3.9 + at MIT with a 40+ MCAT. I'm very confident that I have seen some of the biggest academic freaks around (most of them are my friends going to HMS, Hopkins, Stanford). I strongly believe that everyone's situation is unique and that it's extremely difficult to give general advice of this nature. I am confident that I will be able to perform well in medical school and achieve my target score on step I, so I accepted my full ride. If somebody isn't sure of their goals, or "barely" got into their medical school of choice, I would agree that being conservative in making these decisions is the best course of action.

Watch out, we got a badass over here. Good luck.

 

[mrh125]

NYU
LOCATION
Pros
curriculum
liked student body more
nice expensive resources like sim lab etc.
pass fail

Cons
Cost

University of Maryland
Pros
cheap
overall matches really well and pretty comparable to NYU program wise

Cons
hate baltimore
not in love with the student body
not in love with the curriculum
not pass fail


With that said, I really love NYU but there's nothing particularly bad about UMD I guess. It's a great program objectively speaking. I just don't really like it much.

Is there any way you can assistance or any sort of merit based aid at NYU? I really like the idea of going with your dream and the pass/fail system (it's such a positive grading system for med classes).

 

[el_duderino]

Is there any way you can assistance or any sort of merit based aid at NYU? I really like the idea of going with your dream and the pass/fail system (it's such a positive grading system for med classes).

Please read the thread. These questions have been answered and OP has made a decision and informed the respective programs.

 

[mrh125]

Please read the thread. These questions have been answered and OP has made a decision and informed the respective programs.

I was answering based off of the first post alone and trying to help.my bad

 

[Greenberg702]

Watch out, we got a badass over here. Good luck.

Thanks brah. I apologize to the OP for contributing to this thread spiraling out of control. Good luck at UMD!

 

[QofQuimica]

Just officially accepted UMD and declined NYU's offer.

You did the right thing. I'm proud of you.

I hope so. I'm sitting in my room crying my eyes out right now. I feel so so horrible and unhappy. does this mean i picked the wrong thing? or i just made a grown up decision and they're not supposed to be all bunnies and rainbows.

This.

Yes, sometimes even wise decisions provoke tears. You're giving up a fairy tale, and that does hurt. But you're making a wise decision.

And this.

As for all this talk about match lists, I wouldn't let that be of concern to you. Match lists are highly dependent upon personal preference, and there is a lot more that factors into people's residency program selection than just school prestige. In particular, geography becomes much more important at the residency application stage, especially since many people get married/start families during med school and residency. Since UMD is a state school, many of the matriculants are from MD and will want to stay in the area for residency for family reasons. The match list will therefore reflect that regional bias. That doesn't mean those students couldn't have done residency OOS if they had wanted.

Even more importantly, you can't find out from a match list the info that you *really* want to know, which is, how many students matched to their top choice program in their top choice specialty? If I ranked IM at UMD first and matched there, that's as successful as a match result gets (top choice program in top choice specialty). But what if I really wanted to do anesthesia in Cali and ended up in IM at JHU, and JHU IM was my twentieth rank? Even though that looks like a great match on paper to a bunch of strangers who don't know how far down my list I had to go, it's not a good match from my perspective because it wasn't the specialty/institution/area of the country I wanted. About the only match result that would be worse would be going even farther down my list or ending up unmatched altogether.

Unfortunately, med schools don't provide applicants with this kind of info. You may be able to feel out some of the MS4s at second looks to get an anecdotal idea of how many got their top matches, but even then, there's no guarantee they'll be honest with you.

 

[NickNaylor]

And this.

As for all this talk about match lists, I wouldn't let that be of concern to you. Match lists are highly dependent upon personal preference, and there is a lot more that factors into people's residency program selection than just school prestige. In particular, geography becomes much more important at the residency application stage, especially since many people get married/start families during med school and residency. Since UMD is a state school, many of the matriculants are from MD and will want to stay in the area for residency for family reasons. The match list will therefore reflect that regional bias. That doesn't mean those students couldn't have done residency OOS if they had wanted.

Even more importantly, you can't find out from a match list the info that you *really* want to know, which is, how many students matched to their top choice program in their top choice specialty? If I ranked IM at UMD first and matched there, that's as successful as a match result gets (top choice program in top choice specialty). But what if I really wanted to do anesthesia in Cali and ended up in IM at JHU, and JHU IM was my twentieth rank? Even though that looks like a great match on paper to a bunch of strangers who don't know how far down my list I had to go, it's not a good match from my perspective because it wasn't the specialty/institution/area of the country I wanted. About the only match result that would be worse would be going even farther down my list or ending up unmatched altogether.

Unfortunately, med schools don't provide applicants with this kind of info. You may be able to feel out some of the MS4s at second looks to get an anecdotal idea of how many got their top matches, but even then, there's no guarantee they'll be honest with you.

No matter how many times this said, sadly, no one will believe it.

 

[QofQuimica]

No matter how many times this said, sadly, no one will believe it.

That's because most people reading this forum have never been through the match process and don't understand how it works. And many are premeds desperately looking for data to help them make some kind of objective decision about schools, which is totally understandable. We're all about making evidence based decisions here. Unfortunately, a match list doesn't provide the desired data, and I'd even argue that match lists are basically nothing but glossy marketing brochures for the med schools that publish them.

 

[swallday1640]

I am glad OP made the right decision but the fact that this actually took this much time to see kinda shows me how children with well off parents who pay for their loans and other things throughout life struggle with understanding the importance of money and debt.

 

[ace12345]

Not to derail the thread - hopefully this is in line as I really have taken much from this conversation - but for the majority of us that will be taking on much more than 40K of debt, what realistically should we do? I thought my debt load wasn't going to be that bad before this conversation but now...

Basically, is there something we can do to make things any better as med students? Do we just need to accept that we are inevitably in trouble (And no, please do not start ranting against the system everyone. As an incoming student, I really just want some advice on how to proceed given the current situation)?

 

[snowys435]

I am glad OP made the right decision but the fact that this actually took this much time to see kinda shows me how children with well off parents who pay for their loans and other things throughout life struggle with understanding the importance of money and debt.

It's not why it took me so long.My parents are not well off. I went to undergrad on 80% need based grants. My parents are in a lot of debt so I've seen exactly how crippling it can be. Had I not seen this, I would have picked NYU.

The reason it took so long is because I'm 22 and I have the same old idealistic dreams as most 22 year olds and I'm finally getting into the real world and realizing there is more to life i guess.

 

[el_duderino]

You'll realize once you're done with school that, while it was an important and formative time, there's a lot more to life that contributes to your long-term happiness.

 

[swallday1640]

It's not why it took me so long.My parents are not well off. I went to undergrad on 80% need based grants. My parents are in a lot of debt so I've seen exactly how crippling it can be. Had I not seen this, I would have picked NYU.

The reason it took so long is because I'm 22 and I have the same old idealistic dreams as most 22 year olds and I'm finally getting into the real world and realizing there is more to life i guess.

You must have some really good parents then if they are not well off but giving you 40k towards med school. A good amount of medical school friends aren't fortunate like that.

 

[snowys435]

You must have some really good parents then if they are not well off but giving you 40k towards med school. A good amount of medical school friends aren't fortunate like that.

Well , I'm going to support them in the future for sure once i have a job so it didn't matter from their perspective. they don't have any retirement savings really and have spent every dime they had on me growing up. I'm from an indian family and it's kind of how it works. Everyone is seen as one unit and you do what's best for the family.

 

[snowys435]

Well , I'm going to support them in the future for sure once i have a job so it didn't matter from their perspective. they don't have any retirement savings really and have spent every dime they had on me growing up. I'm from an indian family and it's kind of how it works. Everyone is seen as one unit and you do what's best for the family. I am of course eternally grateful and will never really be able to pay them back

 

[Greenberg702]

Well , I'm going to support them in the future for sure once i have a job so it didn't matter from their perspective. they don't have any retirement savings really and have spent every dime they had on me growing up. I'm from an indian family and it's kind of how it works. Everyone is seen as one unit and you do what's best for the family.

That's exactly how I grew up. My parents sold their house and moved to a dirt cheap apartment in order to send me to undergrad. I'm basically their 401 K

 

[PSUtoMD]

Just stopping by since this thread caught my eye. I went to Maryland for medical school. I had the time of my life, met some of the most amazing and fun people, studied very hard and performed very well. I ended up matching into my #1 Dermatology residency (not at Maryland) and couldn't be happier with my time spent at Maryland for medical school, or the opportunities it afforded me.

If you have specific questions/concerns about the school, I'm happy to help answer them.

 

[QofQuimica]

Not to derail the thread - hopefully this is in line as I really have taken much from this conversation - but for the majority of us that will be taking on much more than 40K of debt, what realistically should we do? I thought my debt load wasn't going to be that bad before this conversation but now...

Basically, is there something we can do to make things any better as med students? Do we just need to accept that we are inevitably in trouble (And no, please do not start ranting against the system everyone. As an incoming student, I really just want some advice on how to proceed given the current situation)?

First, live cheaply during med school, and don't take out the max amount of loans if you don't need them. Most people's major expenses in med school (besides tuition of course) are housing and transportation. So if you want to minimize your debt, you should strongly consider having a roommate, forgoing a car, or both. (Obviously this may not be possible if you have a spouse, children, or other family obligations.)

Second, live beneath your means during residency and put the difference toward your loans. If you're single with no dependents, you can definitely have a decent lifestyle on a resident's salary. But you cannot afford to live like an attending while you're a resident, so don't try to live like one. And once you become an attending, if you can, try to continue living like a resident for the first 1-3 years so that you can get a lot of your loans paid off. Warning: this sounds a lot easier to do in theory than it is in practice.

 

[DrBowtie]

PGY3 here. Took the money way back when and have never regretted it. When you see how much better spot you're in than your colleagues, you won't either.

We're already behind the 8 ball for saving for retirement, it's much better to be shoveling an extra 3k/month into your savings than to Sallie Mae.

 

[snowys435]

Just stopping by since this thread caught my eye. I went to Maryland for medical school. I had the time of my life, met some of the most amazing and fun people, studied very hard and performed very well. I ended up matching into my #1 Dermatology residency (not at Maryland) and couldn't be happier with my time spent at Maryland for medical school, or the opportunities it afforded me.

If you have specific questions/concerns about the school, I'm happy to help answer them.

Yes, actually this would be amazing. I will message you!

 

[DermViser]

Watch out, we got a badass over here. Good luck.

A bad*** who was freaking out in another thread regarding his med school acceptances, and getting into a top IM program.

 

[DermViser]

Well , I'm going to support them in the future for sure once i have a job so it didn't matter from their perspective. they don't have any retirement savings really and have spent every dime they had on me growing up. I'm from an indian family and it's kind of how it works. Everyone is seen as one unit and you do what's best for the family.

That's exactly how I grew up. My parents sold their house and moved to a dirt cheap apartment in order to send me to undergrad. I'm basically their 401 K

Will be interesting to see your mental health as u progress thru med school and residency.

 

[ciestar]

You must have some really good parents then if they are not well off but giving you 40k towards med school. A good amount of medical school friends aren't fortunate like that.

Hah. My parents make a combined 30k. They could sell everything they own and still wouldn't be able to contribute to my education. Consider yourself fortunate, OP.

 

[Greenberg702]

Will be interesting to see your mental health as u progress thru med school and residency.

Hopefully OK. I did OK in college and I was under huge pressure to perform.

 

[snowys435]

Will be interesting to see your mental health as u progress thru med school and residency.

Now that the debt it is gone I actually don't really feel aby pressure about it. I know If I d even ok in med school I'll be able to get some residency not starve and still support my parents. But the debt has previously actually put a lot of pressure on me to perform so I could pay it back and support them. But right now even in the worst case scenario I think I'll be ok.

 

[DermViser]

Now that the debt it is gone I actually don't really feel aby pressure about it. I know If I d even ok in med school I'll be able to get some residency not starve and still support my parents. But the debt has previously actually put a lot of pressure on me to perform so I could pay it back and support them. But right now even in the worst case scenario I think I'll be ok.

All the more reason why UMD was the best situation for you. Considering your family situation, I really think the pressure would have been even MORE immense. You can rest easy that even after finishing medical school, the most debt you will have is 40K (I don't know what your undergrad debt was if any). You are in a huge enviable position, more than you realize at the moment.

 

[DermViser]

Hopefully OK. I did OK in college and I was under huge pressure to perform.

3.8+ GPA at MIT is hardly, "ok".