A new MD school (Ponce St Louis) or an established DO school (Touro-CA)

[Penguin535]

Hi everyone, I am very fortunate to have been accepted to multiple medical schools, however, I am having trouble choosing which one to attend. I’ve gotten into a new MD school, Ponce Health Sciences St. Louis, and also an established DO school, Touro-CA. The cost of attendance for both schools is the same and I want to make this decision purely based off of which school will provide me with the best chance of being able to match into a competitive specialty if I choose to apply to one come residency match time in 4 years. I’m very conflicted about which medical school to attend because Touro-CA seems to have a very good match rate and does seem to match a few students into competitive specialties every year such as Derm, Opthamology, General Surgery (a little less competitive than the previous two listed). Ponce on the other hand is a new medical school branch that is fully accredited because it is a sister campus of Ponce Health Sciences in Puerto Rico which is itself US-MD accredited by LCME. The PR campus seems to have an okay match rate, perhaps comparable to DO schools in some cases. I’m not sure whether to take a chance on it’s St. Louis branch and get the MD degree or go to an established DO school to give myself the best chance of being able to potentially match into a competitive specialty down the road. I was wondering if anyone could please provide me with any insight from their own experiences about which school might keep the most doors open for me in terms of being able to match into competitive specialties down the road?

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[Just D.O. it]

I want to make this decision purely based off of which school will provide me with the best chance of being able to match into a competitive specialty

Go MD. No question.

There is actually a mechanism to filter out all DO candidate available on ERAS which I'm sure some competitive residency directors use. There is no such thing for "new" MD schools. The general MD>DO mantra holds, even for new MD schools.

 

[wysdoc]

I vote Touro CA in this case

 

[Penguin535]

I vote Touro CA in this case

Just curious, could you explain your thought process behind this so I can gain some clarity

 

[wysdoc]

Just curious, could you explain your thought process behind this so I can gain some clarity

Because Touro is a well established school, accredited with exceptional outcome (that's actually a rating category by COCA!)
and has better advising for residency application later already in place than Ponce St. Louis which is only 2 years old.

 

[Penguin535]

Because Touro is a well established school, accredited with exceptional outcome (that's actually a rating category by COCA!)
and has better advising for residency application later already in place than Ponce St. Louis which is only 2 years old.

Ah I see that makes sense, thanks for the clarification!

 

[theoceanman]

Touro CA. It is more established and regardless a fantastic school.

 

[Penguin535]

Touro CA. It is more established and regardless a fantastic school.

Yeah that’s what I’m leaning towards because of the uncertainties associated with Ponce St. Louis

 

[Desperatefuturedr]

Go MD. No question.

There is actually a mechanism to filter out all DO candidate available on ERAS which I'm sure some competitive residency directors use. There is no such thing for "new" MD schools. The general MD>DO mantra holds, even for new MD schools.

Not necessarily! I am an alumnus of ponce's msms program and can tell you the school can be disorganized at times. Go with the DO school option. With the amount of scandal associated with school, you would be better off at a school where you will be supported. I have heard a lot of complaints about the MD program. MD doesn't always mean better. Please save yourself and go DO. I personally only applied to ponce as my last option but I'm glad it is no longer an option for me,

 

[Just D.O. it]

I'm seeing a lot of sentiment about how Touro-CA is more established with "better resources" and "better advising".

There seems to be an implication that DO schools are only second choices because they have less resources. That is not the case. There is a stigma against DOs in competitive specialties based purely on them being DOs. The letters behind your name in and of yourself are a MAJOR factor in your ability to match in your preferred specialty. So to residency directors even a poorly organized brand new MD will be seen as the better school, regardless of what the reality was/is. You can overcome the setbacks of a disorganized curriculum by studying hard on your own. You can overcome poor advising by coming on here and asking many of the qualified and wonderful volunteers and doing your own research. But no matter how stellar of a student you are, you will not be able to save yourself from the non-LCME filter or change the letters behind your name. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, or that I support it. But this is the current reality.

@voxveritatisetlucis @Schwifty Care to share your thoughts and experiences?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Personally, I would go MD given the fact that even the most recently opened allopathic schools had better match lists for their inaugural classes than established DO schools but I could understand not wanting to go to a new school

 

[Penguin535]

I'm seeing a lot of sentiment about how Touro-CA is more established with "better resources" and "better advising".

There seems to be an implication that DO schools are only second choices because they have less resources. That is not the case. There is a stigma against DOs in competitive specialties based purely on them being DOs. The letters behind your name in and of yourself are a MAJOR factor in your ability to match in your preferred specialty. So to residency directors even a poorly organized brand new MD will be seen as the better school, regardless of what the reality was/is. You can overcome the setbacks of a disorganized curriculum by studying hard on your own. You can overcome poor advising by coming on here and asking many of the qualified and wonderful volunteers and doing your own research. But no matter how stellar of a student you are, you will not be able to save yourself from the non-LCME filter or change the letters behind your name. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, or that I support it. But this is the current reality.

@voxveritatisetlucis @Schwifty Care to share your thoughts and experiences?

Personally, I would go MD given the fact that even the most recently opened allopathic schools had better match lists for their inaugural classes than established DO schools but I could understand not wanting to go to a new school

Thank you all for your advice! Would you guys say that the reputation of the Puerto Rico campus may affect the St. Louis campus in the eyes of PDs when it comes to residency match time? Also how easy is it to obtain research and shadowing outside of your own medical school, because since Ponce is private and since the St. Louis branch is new, it doesn’t have many in-house research opportunities? As someone from CA, obtaining outside research and shadowing in the area was a dog fight, but that could just be because CA is super overcrowded which makes these things much harder, so I was just curious how hard it is to obtain these things once you’re a medical student. Also would your answer abt which school to attend change knowing that Ponce St. Louis is a for-profit medical school?

 

[darkeon]

assuming accreditation is ok, i'd still go w/ the MD school especially since it's on the mainland, despite the for-profit status.

 

[Schwifty]

I'm seeing a lot of sentiment about how Touro-CA is more established with "better resources" and "better advising".

There seems to be an implication that DO schools are only second choices because they have less resources. That is not the case. There is a stigma against DOs in competitive specialties based purely on them being DOs. The letters behind your name in and of yourself are a MAJOR factor in your ability to match in your preferred specialty. So to residency directors even a poorly organized brand new MD will be seen as the better school, regardless of what the reality was/is. You can overcome the setbacks of a disorganized curriculum by studying hard on your own. You can overcome poor advising by coming on here and asking many of the qualified and wonderful volunteers and doing your own research. But no matter how stellar of a student you are, you will not be able to save yourself from the non-LCME filter or change the letters behind your name. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, or that I support it. But this is the current reality.

@voxveritatisetlucis @Schwifty Care to share your thoughts and experiences?

I’m not very familiar with the two schools mentioned here, but I always say any USMD over any DO school. And I’ll stick with that here. The advantage of being a USMD student when it comes time to match is huge, even if it’s a new school.

 

[Just D.O. it]

Thank you all for your advice! Would you guys say that the reputation of the Puerto Rico campus may affect the St. Louis campus in the eyes of PDs when it comes to residency match time?

I mean yes, most PDs will associate name Ponce with the Puerto Rico campus, but again I don't see them putting an MD below a DO for this reason.

Also how easy is it to obtain research and shadowing outside of your own medical school, because since Ponce is private and since the St. Louis branch is new, it doesn’t have many in-house research opportunities?

Depends on the surrounding area to be honest. It would certainly be tough at some of the rural places to find or create research opportunities outside their school, but in a place like St. Louis, a driven student should definitely land something given the amount of Universities and academic hospitals in the area.

Also would your answer abt which school to attend change knowing that Ponce St. Louis is a for-profit medical school?

No. Again this would be a factor to consider IF you had other MD options.

But as a DO student myself with many DO student/resident friends, who understands just how big a barrier the DO difference can be when trying to match the uber competitive specialties, I cannot, in good faith, advise someone with interests in competitive fields to choose a DO school over a USMD even a new one.

 

[texasvandy]

Based on personal experience helping someone, Ponce because it is harder to get in there more than it is to get into the best DO school.

 

[Penguin535]

Thank you all for the insight! I'm just curious, how hard would things like securing away rotations be during 4th year if I attend Ponce? Will it be relatively easy or will it be more difficult since Ponce-St. Louis is a new medical school that many people may not know about just yet?

 

[texasvandy]

Not sure away rotations depend on where you are coming from as much as what you are trying to get into and whether they think you are worthy of accepting for whatever spots they have based on your performance until then.

 

[Just D.O. it]

Thank you all for the insight! I'm just curious, how hard would things like securing away rotations be during 4th year if I attend Ponce? Will it be relatively easy or will it be more difficult since Ponce-St. Louis is a new medical school that many people may not know about just yet?

I don't think it will be an issue at all. Ponce is still a fully accredited MD school, I've never heard of MD students having trouble getting aways even if their school was new.

Of course there are some places where getting a rotation can be very competitive and the spots will likely be filled by students from highly ranked schools, but that doesn't uniquely affect ponce any more than other relatively less prestigious schools.

 

[CookieMonsta]

In a similar position as OP here, with my prospective DO school being DMU. Looking at the financial side of things, DMU would be $16k cheaper per year for me and I'm getting $6k more direct unsubsidized loans per year when compared to my package at PHSU-STL. I'm also a little worried that PHSU could increase tuition a good amount each year due to their for-profit status.

Would DMU be a better option over PHSU-STL in this situation?

 

[texasvandy]

In a similar position as OP here, with my prospective DO school being DMU. Looking at the financial side of things, DMU would be $16k cheaper per year for me and I'm getting $6k more direct unsubsidized loans per year when compared to my package at PHSU-STL. I'm also a little worried that PHSU could increase tuition a good amount each year due to their for-profit status.

Would DMU be a better option over PHSU-STL in this situation?

It is a financial decision. It is harder to say that one must spend an extra 64k + take on higher interest loan for another 24k.

 

[Just D.O. it]

In a similar position as OP here, with my prospective DO school being DMU. Looking at the financial side of things, DMU would be $16k cheaper per year for me and I'm getting $6k more direct unsubsidized loans per year when compared to my package at PHSU-STL. I'm also a little worried that PHSU could increase tuition a good amount each year due to their for-profit status.

Would DMU be a better option over PHSU-STL in this situation?

Depends on the likelihood you will end up applying to a competitive specialty. Would you rather work in your chosen specialty, but have to pay back $64k extra? Or would rather a back up specialty or worst case even having to SOAP with less debt? Me personally, I'd have paid the extra for an MD if I had the option.

BUT, if you are 110% sure that you want an easy to match specialty like FM or EM and also that you won't change your mind (believe me there are non trads who have had a dream specialty for a decade who have changed their mind about it in med school), then saving the money is the better call.

 

[CookieMonsta]

Depends on the likelihood you will end up applying to a competitive specialty. Would you rather work in your chosen specialty, but have to pay back $64k extra? Or would rather a back up specialty or worst case even having to SOAP with less debt? Me personally, I'd have paid the extra for an MD if I had the option.

BUT, if you are 110% sure that you want an easy to match specialty like FM or EM and also that you won't change your mind (believe me there are non trads who have had a dream specialty for a decade who have changed their mind about it in med school), then saving the money is the better call.

Did you end up using PSLF for your med school loans?