ACGME gen surgery DO friendly

[mkuak1]

Hey everyone,

I scored a 231 on my USMLE, have some research, poster, and tutoring under my belt. My residency counselor feels good about me matching somewhere. I really dont want to apply to AOA because I want to go into peds/ plastics / something else after that...

I'm making a list of all the acgme gen. surgery residency programs that are D.O. friendly. I have a few in mind that my counselor told me about.

If any of you know of ANY acgme gen. surgery program in which a DO has been matched in the past, PLEASE let me know/ post below.

thanks !

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[JeetKuneDo]

This is a good idea. A master list of places would be helpful in the future too.

I saw that Swedish in Seattle has a DO that's an R4.

 

[marke]

I heard there's a DO in OUHS gen surg residency

 

[mkuak1]

UT Houston and UT San Antonio have DOs too. Thanks guys, keep em coming!

 

[D0CYAN]

Christianna Care Health System, DE (DO's in every year, 2 in some years)
Georgetown considers osteopaths (mentioned on website), but no osteopath residents currently
Sinai Hospital, Baltimore, has a DO resident (recent)
Monmouth Medical center considers osteopaths, Long Branch NJ
Temple U Hostpial Program in Philly, has DOs

 

[da Vincis World]

These are a few that I know of off the top of my head. I don't want to crush any dreams but please note that it will be very difficult to get a plastics or peds fellowship, even if you do an ACGME general surgery residency, as a DO. I'm not saying impossible but very difficult.

Medical College of Georgia
Virginia Tech - Carilion Clinic
Virginia Commonwealth University (One DO in prelim year)
University of South Carolina - Palmetto Health
East Tennessee State University
West Virginia University

 

[mkuak1]

Hello,
*
I was wondering if you guys have the data regarding which programs have accepted DO students in the past. I am interested in General Surgery to be exact. I am a DO student and will be applying for ACGME (not AOA) match. It will be very helpful if I have a list of programs which have accepted DO students in the past in the said specialty.*
*
Thank you for your time and consideration.*
*
We have that data but we do not have the authority to release any program-level data. I suggest that you contact the programs you are interested in and ask them if they will consider DO students. I believe more and more programs will consider DOs in the future.
*

 

[da Vincis World]

Hello,
*
I was wondering if you guys have the data regarding which programs have accepted DO students in the past. I am interested in General Surgery to be exact. I am a DO student and will be applying for ACGME (not AOA) match. It will be very helpful if I have a list of programs which have accepted DO students in the past in the said specialty.*
*
Thank you for your time and consideration.*
*
We have that data but we do not have the authority to release any program-level data. I suggest that you contact the programs you are interested in and ask them if they will consider DO students. I believe more and more programs will consider DOs in the future.
*

I would love to know why they believe programs will be considering more DOs in the future. I don't think anything has changed that will greatly affect the percentage of DOs matching ACGME gen surg.

 

[mkuak1]

I agree. #DOcurse. I dont understand WHY they wouldnt release it though. I'm having to call individual programs now to find out. useless.

I would love to know why they believe programs will be considering more DOs in the future. I don't think anything has changed that will greatly affect the percentage of DOs matching ACGME gen surg.

 

[dudeliness]

I would love to know why they believe programs will be considering more DOs in the future. I don't think anything has changed that will greatly affect the percentage of DOs matching ACGME gen surg.

Maybe because of there being one match now?

 

[mkuak1]

Maybe because of there being one match now?

Nobody at my school (including the residency counselors) think the merger will change anything substantial.

 

[DrPapa]

LSU New Orleans hasn't matched a DO but they have interviewed them & had them rotate there. They are very DO friendly.

 

[Dissected]

I would love to know why they believe programs will be considering more DOs in the future. I don't think anything has changed that will greatly affect the percentage of DOs matching ACGME gen surg.

On the contrary, things are changing every year slowly but surely. More DO's match acgme surg each cycle, and the attitude as far as I can tell on interviews has been mostly positive.

I believe that having one match will substantially increase the amount of DO's matching to acgme surg. Think about it..nobody will have to commit to only DO programs and can rank MD programs first if they would rather go that route. No more being 'disqualified' from the MD match. It's a complete game changer.

 

[NurWollen]

These are a few that I know of off the top of my head. I don't want to crush any dreams but please note that it will be very difficult to get a plastics or peds fellowship, even if you do an ACGME general surgery residency, as a DO. I'm not saying impossible but very difficult.

Medical College of Georgia
Virginia Tech - Carilion Clinic
Virginia Commonwealth University (One DO in prelim year)
University of South Carolina - Palmetto Health
East Tennessee State University
West Virginia University

Interesting... I didn't know that that kind of bias can persist at the fellowship level post-ACGME residency. It's a shame. At that point a physician's training is absolutely the same, MD or DO.

 

[DopaDO]

Interesting... I didn't know that that kind of bias can persist at the fellowship level post-ACGME residency. It's a shame. At that point a physician's training is absolutely the same, MD or DO.

I'm not sure what Da Vinci is talking about, but I have heard from several DO's and MD PD's that once you do an MD residency you are 100% on a level playing field. It makes sense as well, considering your training is identical. There has even a lot of DO bashing on these forums lately; I can honestly say the vast majority of it is unwarranted.

 

[da Vincis World]

I'm not sure what Da Vinci is talking about, but I have heard from several DO's and MD PD's that once you do an MD residency you are 100% on a level playing field. It makes sense as well, considering your training is identical. There has even a lot of DO bashing on these forums lately; I can honestly say the vast majority of it is unwarranted.

This is not DO bashing...I am a DO student. I'm just speaking from the experience of several friends who went through ACGME gen surgery residencies who saw quite a bit of bias when applying for the competitive fellowships, specifically peds and plastics. There is another thread on here about IM fellowships and there is a clear illustration on that thread where the DO residents at Temple's ACGME IM program have a much higher rate of matching at in-house fellowships vs the MD residents (70% vs 33%). I think it's fairly obvious that the DOs there were seeing some bias.

This bias is likely worse in gen surg as they are not nearly as DO friendly as IM.

Do you honestly think a PD is going to tell you that they have a bias against DOs?

 

[goooooober]

I am currently a PGY-6 at MD University program in east coast. I am in my 4th clinical year and I have done 2 years of research.

I set up myself for peds surgery and have done residency rotations at Hopkins, Maryland, DC childrens during my 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years. As I mentioned, I also did 2 years of research as is required for most competitive fellowships and I have 15 manuscript publications and working on number 16 now.

After doing my chief rotation, right before submiting my application, I decided that peds was not for me, due to lifestyle, variety of cases, and the field's culture and personality.

Why did it take me so long to decide not to do it? experience and maturity.

In the process though, after spending a total of 7.5 months over the last clinical 4 years doing peds, I gained a lot of insight into the field.

While I feel that I had a very good chance to match having earned the full support of chief ped surgeons at 3 different institutions prior to applications, pedigree does matter to some extent. I was still questioned as recently as few months ago, why I had chosen to become a DO.

I stated I applied to 2 schools in my state, 1 UofA and 1 AZCOM. I got accepted to AZCOM and not my first choice UofA and I went for my opportunity and matched my first choice in MD general surgery on first try.

Overall, landing the best residency at a University program gives you the most opportunity to set yourself up for competitive fellowships, but people may still question your decisions earlier in life.

Work hard, be confident, and go for your goals. It is on to colorectal fellowship for me now. I will let you know how that goes.

Hope this helps.

 

[MedPR]

I think I saw a DO surg resident walking around at WashU today.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[mkuak1]

Hey everyone,

So I was wrong when I said my school doesnt think the merger will change anything. I just met with one of imp. admins and she thinks its a great thing. Everyone going into AOA programs will come out of residency with an ACGME accreditation... and she sounded pretty confident about it (she is involved in the negotiations and says they look promising). I am def more open to AOA programs now.

On the other hand, If I go AOA - i could match in one of the best ones.... not so much via ACGME (will most likely have to go with community programs vs. university ones).

Either way, I'll apply to both. If I have a comfortable # of interview offers from ACGME (~10-15), i'll def. sign up for ACGME match alone. If I dont....i'll apply for both matches.

 

[da Vincis World]

Hey everyone,

So I was wrong when I said my school doesnt think the merger will change anything. I just met with one of imp. admins and she thinks its a great thing. Everyone going into AOA programs will come out of residency with an ACGME accreditation... and she sounded pretty confident about it (she is involved in the negotiations and says they look promising). I am def more open to AOA programs now.

On the other hand, If I go AOA - i could match in one of the best ones.... not so much via ACGME (will most likely have to go with community programs vs. university ones).

Either way, I'll apply to both. If I have a comfortable # of interview offers from ACGME (~10-15), i'll def. sign up for ACGME match alone. If I dont....i'll apply for both matches.

Most admin type folks are going to say its a great thing. When you have many more graduates than residency spots available you kind of have to go with the flow when the ACGME tells you that they are going to start accrediting your residency programs. When you have no other options of course the only option available is a "great thing".

 

[mkuak1]

Most admin type folks are going to say its a great thing. When you have many more graduates than residency spots available you kind of have to go with the flow when the ACGME tells you that they are going to start accrediting your residency programs. When you have no other options of course the only option available is a "great thing".

I don't know why its not a good thing. I was under the impression that people who got in an AOA residency before the merger was going to get an AOA accreditation. But now that I found out everyone after the merger...even if they were accepted to a AOA, will get an ACGME certificate, I'm all for it. It opens more doors for sub specialties, etc etc etc.

I dont konw about most of us here, I got into a DO school simply because I coudnt get into an MD one. I'm not crazy about OMM or anything (I'll probably never use it, to be honest). I'm just a medical student who doesnt want to deal with the DO bashing/ discrimination in acceptance to sub specialties. I realize the merger will not solve these problems 100% but its a good start!

 

[da Vincis World]

I don't know why its not a good thing. I was under the impression that people who got in an AOA residency before the merger was going to get an AOA accreditation. But now that I found out everyone after the merger...even if they were accepted to a AOA, will get an ACGME certificate, I'm all for it. It opens more doors for sub specialties, etc etc etc.

I dont konw about most of us here, I got into a DO school simply because I coudnt get into an MD one. I'm not crazy about OMM or anything (I'll probably never use it, to be honest). I'm just a medical student who doesnt want to deal with the DO bashing/ discrimination in acceptance to sub specialties. I realize the merger will not solve these problems 100% but its a good start!

I am not suggesting that it is absolutely going to be a bad thing, who knows....however it appears that the AOA has ceded control of accrediting its own residencies to the ACGME, so it's sort of out of their hands. Under no circumstances can I imagine that this is what the AOA or any DO schools administration wanted.....they didn't have a choice.

I do believe that it will make the uber competitive DO residencies even more competitive if MDs are allowed to apply. Based on the shear number of MD graduates there are significantly more competitive MDs for these spots than DOs.....I can't imagine this not cutting some DO's out of these programs.

Don't believe everything that administration tells you.....they would NEVER tell someone that is paying them $40,000/year that they thought this was going to be a negative....never.

 

[mkuak1]

trying to bump this thread since today is match day!

If anyone has matched into general surgery today (or previously), please tell us which programs are DO friendly!

Greatly appreciated

 

[SLC]

trying to bump this thread since today is match day!

If anyone has matched into general surgery today (or previously), please tell us which programs are DO friendly!

Greatly appreciated

I know of someone who is apparently matching at OHSU for General Surgery, he/she will be the first DO resident ever at that program from what I'm told. Can't say if they'll be more open to DO's in the future, but they seem open to having DO students rotate there 4th year.

 

[Spikebd]

I would love to live in Portland one day.

 

[abcshawnxyz]

I know of someone who is apparently matching at OHSU for General Surgery, he/she will be the first DO resident ever at that program from what I'm told. Can't say if they'll be more open to DO's in the future, but they seem open to having DO students rotate there 4th year.

Definitely not true about the first ever DO resident at OHSU. There is currently a 2nd year gen surg resident from Western/COMP there.

 

[SLC]

Definitely not true about the first ever DO resident at OHSU. There is currently a 2nd year gen surg resident from Western/COMP there.

I'm only repeating what I've heard. I was told he was the first, apparently that's wrong.

 

[Dissected]

Definitely not true about the first ever DO resident at OHSU. There is currently a 2nd year gen surg resident from Western/COMP there.

I can confirm this 100%. They have taken multiple DO's in the past as well.

 

[JGimpel]

Most DOs I know that are surgeons went to a DO program for GME. I personally only know of one person in the med school classes at my school when I was there and years after it that got into an ACGME surgical residency.

Don't expect to be that unique snowflake that's going to make it where no DO has matched before, especially in ACGME surgery. If you're a DO, you should plan on going to a DO surgery program as there are some that do offer great training and early first-assist opportunities. If you push hard enough, who knows, you could be that one in several hundred that gets into an ACGME surgery program, but that's the way you need to look at it.

 

[mkuak1]

Yea, its definitely not that impossible. I don't know where you are getting your facts from. We have at least 4-5 every year and 5 this year from our school. Granted its from a class of ~200, but no one wants to take the chance on ACGME. Gota take chances, put all your eggs in one basket sometimes. Im personally over the whole DO/OMM/AOA stuff. No offense to anyone who is into it, its just not for me.

Most DOs I know that are surgeons went to a DO program for GME. I personally only know of one person in the med school classes at my school when I was there and years after it that got into an ACGME surgical residency.

Don't expect to be that unique snowflake that's going to make it where no DO has matched before, especially in ACGME surgery. If you're a DO, you should plan on going to a DO surgery program as there are some that do offer great training and early first-assist opportunities. If you push hard enough, who knows, you could be that one in several hundred that gets into an ACGME surgery program, but that's the way you need to look at it.

 

[cliquesh]

Most DOs I know that are surgeons went to a DO program for GME. I personally only know of one person in the med school classes at my school when I was there and years after it that got into an ACGME surgical residency.

Don't expect to be that unique snowflake that's going to make it where no DO has matched before, especially in ACGME surgery. If you're a DO, you should plan on going to a DO surgery program as there are some that do offer great training and early first-assist opportunities. If you push hard enough, who knows, you could be that one in several hundred that gets into an ACGME surgery program, but that's the way you need to look at it.

I think it has more to do with simply trying, I have a classmate that got a 230 on the usmle, which is average for general surgery, and he got 9 general surgery invites, all from university programs. I don't think it's as bad as people think.

 

[DrBumblebee]

I think it has more to do with simply trying, I have a classmate that got a 230 on the usmle, which is average for general surgery, and he got 9 general surgery invites, all from university programs. I don't think it's as bad as people think.

Awesome!

 

[Dissected]

Awesome!

My step 1 was just below 230 and I got 19 invites. Had a much higher step 2.

Beyond getting interviews, matching can be a whole different ballgame though. There are people that attended >15 interviews that didn't match GS this year (Allopathic and Osteopathic students). Rare for that to happen but it does, and your risk is higher as a DO. It's tough out there!

 

[bleeker10]

I think it has more to do with simply trying, I have a classmate that got a 230 on the usmle, which is average for general surgery, and he got 9 general surgery invites, all from university programs. I don't think it's as bad as people think.

How many of these invites were for categorical spots? Prelim spots?

 

[cliquesh]

How many of these invites were for categorical spots? Prelim spots?

All categorical to my knowledge. He matched at a top 40 university program..if that matters.. He is a nice guy. Nothing really special about him.

 

[chudat]

My step 1 was just below 230 and I got 19 invites. Had a much higher step 2.

Beyond getting interviews, matching can be a whole different ballgame though. There are people that attended >15 interviews that didn't match GS this year (Allopathic and Osteopathic students). Rare for that to happen but it does, and your risk is higher as a DO. It's tough out there!

I think it has more to do with simply trying, I have a classmate that got a 230 on the usmle, which is average for general surgery, and he got 9 general surgery invites, all from university programs. I don't think it's as bad as people think.

But did you guys match?

 

[Dissected]

But did you guys match?

Yes, I matched

 

[DrBumblebee]

Yes, I matched

Where are you heading to, Dissected, if you don't answering?

 

[cliquesh]

But did you guys match?

I did anesthesia. I matched.

 

[chudat]

I did anesthesia. I matched.

Cliquesh, don't mean to sound too stalkish, but I believe your scores were borderline 255+....I don't doubt you matched. You are a great applicant for any specialty.

Also, didnt you say you were going to break down the different places you interviewed at and which ones gave you a hard time for being a DO?

PM me if you think it's more convenient.

 

[cliquesh]

Cliquesh, don't mean to sound too stalkish, but I believe your scores were borderline 255+....I don't doubt you matched. You are a great applicant for any specialty.

Also, didnt you say you were going to break down the different places you interviewed at and which ones gave you a hard time for being a DO?

PM me if you think it's more convenient.

Hah, good memory. I'll detail my experience.

 

[Dissected]

Where are you heading to, Dissected, if you don't answering?

I'll keep that to myself to maintain at least a sliver of anonymity on here. It was my #1 and I am thrilled to be attending.

 

[mkuak1]

I did anesthesia. I matched.

So, I'm guessing you applied to both Anesthesia and Gen Surg? Did you audition for both specialties? and ended up matching Anesthesia? #confused.

If you are going to PM the breakdown of the places, could you also send it my way too, please? thanks

 

[cliquesh]

So, I'm guessing you applied to both Anesthesia and Gen Surg? Did you audition for both specialties? and ended up matching Anesthesia? #confused.

If you are going to PM the breakdown of the places, could you also send it my way too, please? thanks

No. Sorry to cause confusion. I was posting about my buddy's experience with Acgme surgery. I, on the other hand, only applied to anesthesia. I didn't really do any audition rotations. I did 3 anesthesia rotations to get experience and LORs, but I didn't rotate at any place I really wanted to go to. I felt like my board scores were good enough to carry me.

 

[mkuak1]

No. Sorry to cause confusion. I was posting about my buddy's experience with Acgme surgery. I, on the other hand, only applied to anesthesia.

oh ok. congrats on the match!

 

[DrBumblebee]

I'll keep that to myself to maintain at least a sliver of anonymity on here. It was my #1 and I am thrilled to be attending.

Congrats much!

 

[DrBumblebee]

I did anesthesia. I matched.

Congrats, cliquesh!

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I thought I'd note that this year one person each at my school matched Loyola and East Carolina University for gen surg, respectively.

 

[lase42]

this is an awesome thread!

...don't mind me--just commenting so i can return here in a couple years.

 

[lase42]

this is an awesome thread!

...don't mind me--just commenting so i can return here in a couple years.