Adding MBA to your PharmD!

[Albo]

What opportunities can adding an MBA add to your career as a Pharmacist? I love business and it is more of a hobby of mine than anything. It is something I enjoy and since I was a kid I loved trading and selling stuff and making a small profit. I registered on Ebay at 16(illegally) and I sold various cheats for video games, when no one knew how to use the internet, for couple years. As an intern I liked looking at profit margins for the company, loss control and keep thinking of how to save more money for the company in order to become more efficient albeit at the store level (even though I kept the ideas to myself).

As I approach my last year of Pharmacy School I know I want to get an MBA after I finish, even if it is for personal satisfaction. However after practicing for a few years I would like to move up to the marketing/business departments at the chains headquarters. Anyone know if this is possible?

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[rxgolfer]

I too feel the same way. I would only consider a top 20 B-school but that's just me. Another thing: opportunity cost. $200k tuition plus loss of wages. You can buy multiple investment properties for $200k . Plus you'll lose $200k> on lost wages. It is my understanding that the some top employers don't hire from part-time programs. If you want to move up the corporate ladder I doubt you need to go to a top B school for that as many pharmacist become PBMs without it. This is a snippet of my thought process as my B school goal is in my maybe 5 year plan.

 

[TLAD123]

What opportunities can adding an MBA add to your career as a Pharmacist? I love business and it is more of a hobby of mine than anything. It is something I enjoy and since I was a kid I loved trading and selling stuff and making a small profit. I registered on Ebay at 16(illegally) and I sold various cheats for video games, when no one knew how to use the internet, for couple years. As an intern I liked looking at profit margins for the company, loss control and keep thinking of how to save more money for the company in order to become more efficient albeit at the store level (even though I kept the ideas to myself).

As I approach my last year of Pharmacy School I know I want to get an MBA after I finish, even if it is for personal satisfaction. However after practicing for a few years I would like to move up to the marketing/business departments at the chains headquarters. Anyone know if this is possible?

I can see the MBA coming in handy in positions like:

Retail
1) Going corporate, or desire to be a PDM or above.
2) If you want to own your own business
3) If you want to be an overqualified pharmacy manager who is a boss at managing the business side of things but has no desire to move up

Hospital
1) Director of Pharmacy (which you probably won't attain until after working there for a few years at least, so getting MBA from the get go might not put you at an advantage right away)
2) If you plan on advancing further than director of pharmacy at a smaller hospital, like director of ancillary services, or something similar
3) If you want to be an IT pharmacist, the information systems one might be beneficial

Pharma
1) Anything in pharma that is corporate-like (i.e. marketing/sales)
2) If you have ambitions to move up the corporate ladder. It may be advantageous to wait and see which MBA focus would best fit your interests AFTER you have a job with pharma if you plan to go this route


I see a few people just getting an MBA because they feel like it, or like it will somehow make them stand out (i.e. getting one because you can do it part time, after your work hours online; MD/MBA; PharmD/MBA) and then not using it. It's more of a - after you have a specific career plan in mind - type of degree in my eyes. I could be wrong here, as I do not have one nor know much about the curriculum. It certainly would make us all better business managers, but then again some things can be learned without a degree. It just adds to the alphabet soup.


Your desires to move to the marketing/business side of pharmacy at HQ, and personal interest in business, you sound like a good fit for the degree.

 

[type b pharmD]

As an rph in the business world, a small business owner, and a business nerd.. I pretty much agree with all of the above.. but would like to add a slight bit of opinion too. I plan to get my mba from a local school probably in the next 10 or so years.

There are 2 useful kinds of mba..

1. The "top school" MBA ... this is the mandatory pick if you want to go into the big leagues like management consulting, senior leadership/strategy roles at a major company (ie pharma, United, esi, etc), or even to branch out to leadership at big heathcare analysia firms. That said, this wont automatically promote you to retail district management or small business ceo.

2. The 'local' / distance learning / part time MBA .. you guys are right, this doesnt do squat for opening doors at bigtime players.. but it does the job if you are looking for a promotion (say, from staff to director, or from director to a lower level VP at a small or mid size company.. ie small to medium hospital, small pharma, small payor) inside your current small or medium size company.

Top 10 MBAs open doors and confer prestige, national recognition and national level networking opportunities. . They get you into that highly sought after "club" ie the old boys club.. but they are a waste of time and money to pursue for small time pharmacy related promotion. On the other hand, Local MBAs mean absolutely squat to the national level, wont provide anything beyond local level networking, but are probably more practical in the sense that they'll teach you what you need to know to move that next step up.

So while I definitely second the idea that if you're looking to break out and make it big.. you have to go big (top 10 or go home). But if you work for a tiny hospital or a small time local payor... top 10 mba would overqualify you for anything except executive leadership. Even a local mba at that point will put you into the highest level of on-paper business knowledge in your organization.

My goal is low level VP .. I will pursue a local or part time mba either as needed to get directorship, or after ive been a director for a while.

The hierarchy in almost all organizations looks somewhat like this (obviously most places may be missing a step , and bigger ones have more)

Department/regional/district director

Low level vp (pretty much a manager of managers)

Specialist vp (oversees technical functions in large orgs.. still may involve clinical skill)

Top level vp (oversees multiple directors and departments .. really where you would use all of your mba knowledge but not much clinical knowledge)

Executive officers (honestly getting here is much more about social and political skills)

 

[BMBiology]

My goal is low level VP .. I will pursue a local or part time mba either as needed to get directorship, or after ive been a director for a while

It wasn't too long ago when you wanted to work just 30 hours a week so you wouldn't have to pay as much under IBR. You now want to be VP? Lol

There are plenty of pharmacists with an MBA working in retail. It is a dime in a dozen. You don't need an MBA to start your own business or to climb the corporate world. Look at the CEO of CVS and Walgreens.

I only recommend doing an MBA if you already have work experience especially management experience. Don't take on more debt because you "like" business or think an MBA will help you stand out. Plenty of unemployed people with an MBA (just google it). Seriously how valuable is a degree when you can do one online at the University of Phoenix?

 

[type b pharmD]

It wasn't too long ago when you wanted to work just 30 hours a week so you wouldn't have to pay as much under IBR. You now want to be VP? Lol

There are plenty of pharmacists with an MBA working in retail. It is a dime in a dozen. You don't need an MBA to start your own business or to climb the corporate world. Look at the CEO of CVS and Walgreens.

I only recommend doing an MBA if you already have work experience especially management experience. Don't take on more debt because you "like" business or think an MBA will help you stand out. Plenty of unemployed people with an MBA (just google it). Seriously how valuable is a degree when you can do one online at the University of Phoenix?

Funny how things change huh

I wouldnt recommend an MBA for retail either.

I also second the idea that without experience, it means nothing. I would not recommend quitting a job to get one for example.

 

[type b pharmD]

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[Hello2000]

MBA's used to be a mid career boost once you had a good few years of experience at work. Now kids do them straight out of school which makes them worthless IMHO.

 

[Sparda29]

I thought about doing this, but then I've realized that the DOP job kinda sucks. If all you had to do was go to P&T and various hospital meetings, come in at 8am and leave at 4pm, no problem. I've seen the DOP at my hospital come in at 6AM or earlier sometimes and not leave till 8-9PM.

The 2-3 months before the joint commission came, he had absolutely no days off or any days less than 12 hours.

 

[type b pharmD]

It wasn't too long ago when you wanted to work just 30 hours a week so you wouldn't have to pay as much under IBR. You now want to be VP? Lol

Well, retail did not end up giving me the offer I wanted. But when MCO made me an offer I couldn't refuse (match retail pay w/o licensure), I am feeling much more optimistic and engaged than I was a year ago.

 

[Robdawg678]

I am recently graduating this year with my PharmD/M.B.A. and it has already helped tremendously. I've had multiple PDM's tell me they like my M.B.A. I plan on moving up to a PDM at some point in my career and the M.B.A. will only help. Plus it was almost free as I took M.B.A. classes instead of pharmacy electives.

 

[xiphoid2010]

My wife is applying right now to a part time one. Since the company reimburse tuition, why not. Not sure if it would be worth while without working experience or having to pay full cost out of pocket.

Like type b said, a local one doesn't carry the same weight as top 10s, but can help moving up a rung or 2 in term of promotions and mid-level management opportunities.

 

[TLAD123]

I am recently graduating this year with my PharmD/M.B.A. and it has already helped tremendously. I've had multiple PDM's tell me they like my M.B.A. I plan on moving up to a PDM at some point in my career and the M.B.A. will only help. Plus it was almost free as I took M.B.A. classes instead of pharmacy electives.

How long was your program? We have a 2 +6, and only had 5 credit hours of electives during our final 2 years, and like maybe 15-16 hours during P1-P2. No where near 60 for an MBA.

 

[Robdawg678]

How long was your program? We have a 2 +6, and only had 5 credit hours of electives during our final 2 years, and like maybe 15-16 hours during P1-P2. No where near 60 for an MBA.

3 years accelerated. A lot of the classes were online so I've been doing some on rotations

 

[BMBiology]

3 years accelerated. A lot of the classes were online so I've been doing some on rotations

This is what I mean when I say an MBA doesn't have the same value anymore. Where is the networking when you are doing it online?

I wouldn't take what the district managers say to heart. They are known to say whatever and to do whatever it takes to move up the corp ladder.

 

[Sparda29]

My wife is applying right now to a part time one. Since the company reimburse tuition, why not. Not sure if it would be worth while without working experience or having to pay full cost out of pocket.

Like type b said, a local one doesn't carry the same weight as top 10s, but can help moving up a rung or 2 in term of promotions and mid-level management opportunities.

I don't get this. What type of experience are we talking about here? Pharmacist experience, director experience, business experience?

 

[type b pharmD]

I don't get this. What type of experience are we talking about here? Pharmacist experience, director experience, business experience?

Experience on the ground level, front lines. Once you become a master of the day-to-day operations, then you can be ready to put that knowledge into the bigger business picture. Pharmacist experience in other words.

Knowing about how businesses work doesn't do much if you haven't actually gotten experience performing the business functions.

An MBA is overkill if you never plan to get out of hands on pharmacy skills. A director for example, would be a master of clinical and dispensing pharmacy, and they can get the job done with that knowledge, mostly.. but if you are looking to get into fitting pharmacy into the organization's bigger business strategy, thats where the MBA knowledge would kick in.
The traditional views of the business hierarchy (ie: several levels below middle management, which is below directors and then VPs) .. do not really apply to pharmacy .. In the regular world, with a BS degree, you would start at entry level, and have maybe 3-5 promotions would get you to to get to director level .. As a clinical or staff pharmacist, you already make more than many director level management.. MD's at my organization are hired with director in their title even though they don't supervise a lot of lower tiers of employees, but get the title just because the pay and responsibility is so high. As a pharmacist, the only people you have above you at ENTRY level .. will be director, vp, and officers. So.. the value of the MBA would be to fill the final missing piece to get you up to that higher level. Director can do the job of the people below them , and needs to know how those people do their jobs to a T .. VP and above need to know how to fit the general knowledge of operations into the business strategy.

 

[Jibby321]

I am also interested in this but I wouldn't pursue until after my student loans are paid off. I notice that some schools wave the GMAT for professional graduates but I only noticed MD or DMD are there any that wave it for Pharm.D.?

Does anyone have experience with the GMAT?

 

[xiphoid2010]

Does anyone have experience with the GMAT?

Took it long time ago, around 2003, just did it because my gf at the time took it. Had some math, some reading, and a essay writing piece. Having taken MCAT, GMAT was a piece of cake. Scored a 650 without preparing for it. I would say it's on par with PCAT.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I don't get this. What type of experience are we talking about here? Pharmacist experience, director experience, business experience?

Can't direct if you don't know how to play. Most pharmacy directors are veteran pharmacists with 10+ years experience for that reason. You don't need an MBA to climb up, but having one can make it easier and faster.

 

[pharmdpharmd]

Just my perspective,

I enrolled at a part time local MBA after a year of staff pharmacist experience.

I learned a ton, and changed my perspective tremoundly.

However, I dropped after 2 class, why?
1- the highest it could me is a director of pharmacy, which is not a job I want and if I ever wanted it, with enough experience I can get it
2- business is not my passion, while I am comfortable with it and see it's importance in running any operation. My true passion is patient care and that's why I decided a residency is a much better investment for me

With that being said, if you ever decide to open a business (small or big), a local MBA is a great investment.

 

[opinionfree]

What opportunities can adding an MBA add to your career as a Pharmacist? I love business and it is more of a hobby of mine than anything. It is something I enjoy and since I was a kid I loved trading and selling stuff and making a small profit. I registered on Ebay at 16(illegally) and I sold various cheats for video games, when no one knew how to use the internet, for couple years. As an intern I liked looking at profit margins for the company, loss control and keep thinking of how to save more money for the company in order to become more efficient albeit at the store level (even though I kept the ideas to myself).

As I approach my last year of Pharmacy School I know I want to get an MBA after I finish, even if it is for personal satisfaction. However after practicing for a few years I would like to move up to the marketing/business departments at the chains headquarters. Anyone know if this is possible?

Wow! If this post isn't fraught with concerns.
While I guess it's cute, to "love business" and appreciate it as a "hobby", I have serious concerns regarding such adolescent admissions to pursue an MBA. I love sex and have a big dick, following your logic, should I go into Porn? Next, you go on to implicate yourself in felonious activities, where your business model involved cheating. Sterling character, I'd say. Then as an intern, you figure out cost savings measures, yet you find yourself too insecure to share them. That screams, good future business administrator.
If you desire an MBA for "personal satisfaction", by all means, get one. As saturation in pharmacy grows, pharmacists are desperately trying to add more letters after PharmD. Nowadays, PharmD/MBA isn't rare or even uncommon. If you think it will facilitate your rise to the 'middle', it won't. If you think an MBA from The University of Phoenix is the way to go, it's not. It lacks the cachet required for career advancement or bragging rights (which I believe, is the entire impetus for your inquiry).
The vast majority of pharmacist administrators, lack the required social skills to be an effective administrator. Enroll in charm school, it will take you much further than the almost commonplace combination of PharmD/MBA, from a third tier school.

 

[MatCauthon]

I love sex and have a big dick, following your logic, should I go into Porn?

You had at least 2 paragraphs in that post of yours, but this is the only part I recall reading. At least you have a backup career if pharmacy gets to saturated right?

 

[Albo]

Wow! If this post isn't fraught with concerns.
While I guess it's cute, to "love business" and appreciate it as a "hobby", I have serious concerns regarding such adolescent admissions to pursue an MBA. I love sex and have a big dick, following your logic, should I go into Porn? Next, you go on to implicate yourself in felonious activities, where your business model involved cheating. Sterling character, I'd say. Then as an intern, you figure out cost savings measures, yet you find yourself too insecure to share them. That screams, good future business administrator.
If you desire an MBA for "personal satisfaction", by all means, get one. As saturation in pharmacy grows, pharmacists are desperately trying to add more letters after PharmD. Nowadays, PharmD/MBA isn't rare or even uncommon. If you think it will facilitate your rise to the 'middle', it won't. If you think an MBA from The University of Phoenix is the way to go, it's not. It lacks the cachet required for career advancement or bragging rights (which I believe, is the entire impetus for your inquiry).
The vast majority of pharmacist administrators, lack the required social skills to be an effective administrator. Enroll in charm school, it will take you much further than the almost commonplace combination of PharmD/MBA, from a third tier school.