13,323 PharmD graduates in 2022

[CNJ_Anon]

AACP released Sept 2022 data, showing that the number of PharmD graduates finally dropped below 14000 after six straight years above the 14000 mark. It looks like next year it will drop below 13000; and the following year it will drop below 12000. The 6.3% year over year decline (from 2021 to 2022) is the largest decline in pharmacy school graduates since 1984. The data is always a year behind. See this link for the full reports:

Student Applications, Enrollments and Degrees Conferred Reports | AACP

www.aacp.org

The number of PharmD grads peaked in 2018 at 14905. The year with the highest total enrollment was 2014 at 63927; it dropped to 53516 in 2021 and then to 47592 in 2022. The attrition rate (13.3%) inched higher and is tied at the 2000 peak. Compare it to the 2004 low of 1.3%.

Actual number of degrees awarded:
2015 13994
2016 14556
2017 14502
2018 14905
2019 14800
2020 14320
2021 14223
2022 13323

Size of class of 202X (as of Sept 2022):
2023 12604
2024 11728
2025 11605

The number of applications to PharmD programs by year:
2017 72941
2018 60042
2019 50842
2020 40392
2021 40552
2022 35749
These data pertain to applications (and not to applicants). Each applicant usually submits 2 or 3 applications.

Fewer prospective students are applying. Fewer students are graduating. Fewer graduates are passing NAPLEX.

One disclaimer is that only 138 institutions reported data this year, compared to 140 last year and 141 the year before.

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[PharmDBro2017]

Good trend. The ROI of a pharmd is not great and people are starting to realize it.

 

[mentos]

That is 13,323 too many.

 

[projektreverb]

That is 13,323 too many.

“Hi I’m a 2023 grad and it’s only 13,322 too many! You forgot I’m a super special clinical ninja who will make all the interventions and get all the unicorn jobs!!”

 

[gwarm01]

Optimistic take: pulling the power balance back in favor of labor will increase our bargaining power, allowing pharmacists to demand better working conditions and higher wages

Realistic take: WAGs and CVS will successfully lobby to grant pharm techs the authority to verify and dispense medications in all 50 states after completing an intense 2 week training course.

 

[RN2RPh]

Optimistic take: pulling the power balance back in favor of labor will increase our bargaining power, allowing pharmacists to demand better working conditions and higher wages

Realistic take: WAGs and CVS will successfully lobby to grant pharm techs the authority to verify and dispense medications in all 50 states after completing an intense 2 week training course.

They wont find enough tech to do that hehe. I think the near future solution (which already happen) for retail is mail order & fulfillment center. After the pandemic, a lot of more people are willing to have perishable things (grocery, drug) delivered.

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

They wont find enough tech to do that hehe. I think the near future solution (which already happen) for retail is mail order & fulfillment center. After the pandemic, a lot of more people are willing to have persihable things (grocery, drug) delivered.

I ran the numbers on my company's mail order pharmacy several years ago. The pharmacist to script ratio wasn't any better than a busy retail store. I'm sure there's savings on rent, etc. But the main benefit is the PBM gets to pay itself dispensing fees.

 

[displaysook]

Hi guys,
I just want to bring an opinion whether my topic is relatable here or not.

For those who are INTERESTED in Pharmacy should study it. If you are not, then don't!

You have to study Pharmacy for 4 years (same process like Dental, Medical, Podiatry) and residency is optional (like Dental), however, after that you will have to work in a place like Walgreens, CVS, Harris Teether, Giant, Target, etc. (which are retail stores). I myself am not interested in Pharamcy since I don't have any passion in it and also the work area that I have to end up working for a long-term. What I also don't like about Pharmacy is that your salary stays the same forever (unless they add a maximum of 10,000 or 20,000). It is not like Medical or Dental where you can actually increase your salary as much as you can or make your own practice. You can create your own store as a Pharmacist but the percentage of those who do that is not that much. Of course they say there are Pharmacist who work in Pfizer or Clinical places, but the percentage is not that high. If you want to not work in Walgreens you have to do residency of Clinical for sample.

However, I don't want to be judgemental or change anyone's mind. Pharmacy is actually a beautiful occupation where you also get your Doctorate Degree. Of course, there are cons in Dental, Medical, Podiatry as well. But I myself can't handle the cons of Pharmacy, however, there are people who can handle it.

I wish you guys the best of luck

 

[Gombrich12]

Looks like something broke in 2022.

Hint to pharmacy schools: it's never going to get better. Unless a potential career offers a lot of money (200k+) most students will gravitate towards fields where there is a good chance they can eventually work from home at a leisurely pace.

Enrollment in First Professional Year

2014    14276
2015    14190    -86
2016    13975    -215
2017    13881    -94
2018    13546    -335
2019    12795    -751
2020    11769    -1026
2021    11135    -634
2022    9324     -1811

 

[projektreverb]

Looks like something broke in 2022.

Hint to pharmacy schools: it's never going to get better. Unless a potential career offers a lot of money (200k+) most students will gravitate towards fields where there is a good chance they can eventually work from home at a leisurely pace.

Enrollment in First Professional Year

2014    14276
2015    14190    -86
2016    13975    -215
2017    13881    -94
2018    13546    -335
2019    12795    -751
2020    11769    -1026
2021    11135    -634
2022    9324     -1811

I was talking to leadership at my alma matter. They had 45 kids in 2021 and less than 30 for 2022 entry. They weren’t worried as they’re part of a much larger institution but a far cry from my graduating class.

 

[letsquitpharm]

It's not just pharmacy, but the entire in-person higher education is having trouble filling seats.

Affordable and quality online schools from high school to grad school are available just about everywhere, for many majors you can think of.

Unless pharmacy schools launch online, asynchronized part-time programs charging no more than 10k a year, I don't think the enrollment trend will reverse.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Great news. Maybe we'll even see something like the 2003-2009 era again where recruiters take us to steak dinners and offer signing bonuses.

 

[projektreverb]

Great news. Maybe we'll even see something like the 2003-2009 era again where recruiters take us to steak dinners and offer signing bonuses.

I’m not that optimistic YET.

 

[footfairy]

Great news. Maybe we'll even see something like the 2003-2009 era again where recruiters take us to steak dinners and offer signing bonuses.

Great news. Maybe we'll even see something like the 2003-2009 era again where recruiters take us to steak dinners and offer signing bonuses.

You're describing the past year of walgreens recruitment, minus the steak dinners.

 

[mentos]

Great news. Maybe we'll even see something like the 2003-2009 era again where recruiters take us to steak dinners and offer signing bonuses.

I doubt that ever happens again. New pharmacies were being built everywhere in the country during that time. Now there is nowhere left to expand and they are shortening hours and closing pharmacies down.

 

[mentos]

Hey you never know. In a decade we could have 4k graduating and the salary could rocket.

The amount of graduates is kinda irrelevant since there's such a huge oversupply already. Reimbursements are more important and those have gone nowhere but down in the past 15+ years.

 

[RXDOC1986]

Based on 40 years of pharmacist experience, I would say, it takes a good 10 years to see any benefit from incremental decreasing graduation numbers. Senior citizens, like me, blocking the jobs from new grads, takes a while for us to cycle through to the other side!

 

[RxPreceptor]

We did it gang, let’s just keep it up another 10 years to sustain what little value/worth we have left
*through the power of negativity, pragmatism, realism, not glamorizing as a get rich quick scheme or easy money profession

Bring back The days of being hunted down and offered vehicles, cash bonuses, work flexibility, adequate working conditions, work life balance, etc.

 

[projektreverb]

We did it gang, let’s just keep it up another 10 years to sustain what little value/worth we have left

Bring back The days of being hunted down and offered vehicles, cash bonuses, work flexibility, adequate working conditions, work life balance, etc.

I don’t think we’ll ever go back to the second part, but I’ll take the first part!

 

[confettiflyer]

Hey you never know. In a decade we could have 4k graduating and the salary could rocket.

And introducing…the advanced practice dispensing technician!

Made legal by boards of pharmacy, of course, due to the public safety concerns of the disappearing pharmacists.

It’ll be like the NP explosion, except we’re not physicians.

 

[mentos]

Bring back The days of being hunted down and offered vehicles, cash bonuses, work flexibility, adequate working conditions, work life balance, etc.

Robots and AI are more likely to replace us than this happening.

 

[RXDOC1986]

We did it gang, let’s just keep it up another 10 years to sustain what little value/worth we have left

Bring back The days of being hunted down and offered vehicles, cash bonuses, work flexibility, adequate working conditions, work life balance, etc.

Such, is the dichotomy that is our profession:
I feel so fortunate and blessed having been employed as a pharmacist for near 4 decades. And now feel so fortunate and blessed to be able to GET the heck out of it, by retiring.

 

[RxPreceptor]

Robots and AI are more likely to replace us than this happening.

Yeah bonus, good working conditions, etc. not coming back.
True, thorough AI replacement though…anytime soon seems like a joke. Bad automation (artificial, yes, intelligent, no) is already at play!

 

[projektreverb]

This got posted by a healthcare supervisor from Walgreens in a less desirable Midwest small metro area. Maybe the tide is turning?

 

[mentos]

View attachment 372874

This got posted by a healthcare supervisor from Walgreens in a less desirable Midwest small metro area. Maybe the tide is turning?

That's cause no one wants to work in sh*tty retail conditions. Do new grads even know who Dwight Shrute is? They were 8 years old when the show was on TV.

 

[Gombrich12]

This got posted by a healthcare supervisor from Walgreens in a less desirable Midwest small metro area. Maybe the tide is turning?

I don't think anything has changed or gotten worse. They've been desperate for pharmacists for three years at this point. They cannot hold on to younger pharmacists because the work conditions are so out of line with the pay. Younger pharmacists see their friends and partners working half as hard as them and realize they need to get out of retail asap.

I wonder what the plan is for chain pharmacies as over the next couple of years as the graduating classes really shrink in size. Getting laws changed for technician dispensing will take some time and I'm sure that is their end goal.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Do new grads even know who Dwight Shrute is? They were 8 years old when the show was on TV.

It had a bit of a second wind on Netflix so yeah, probably

 

[owlegrad]

That's cause no one wants to work in sh*tty retail conditions. Do new grads even know who Dwight Shrute is? They were 8 years old when the show was on TV.

My last intern it was his favorite show so I would say yeah they probably know.

 

[BenJammin]

And introducing…the advanced practice dispensing technician!

Made legal by boards of pharmacy, of course, due to the public safety concerns of the disappearing pharmacists.

It’ll be like the NP explosion, except we’re not physicians.

This is fun to read again.

Pharmacy technicians are the future of our profession: true or false?

Pharmacists are not going to get expanded roles without opposition from the medical board. Since pharmacists couldn't care less about their profession, state boards have the ability to grant technicians more power without worrying about backlash. Aren't they the future of our profession?

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[Dred Pirate]

Great news. Maybe we'll even see something like the 2003-2009 era again where recruiters take us to steak dinners and offer signing bonuses.

damn I miss my school job fair in 2004- I literally just went booth to booth and set up like 5 fancy dinners with zero intent of taking any of their jobs. I was a poor college kid and it was awesome to eat something other than $1 totinos pizzas.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

damn I miss my school job fair in 2004- I literally just went booth to booth and set up like 5 fancy dinners with zero intent of taking any of their jobs. I was a poor college kid and it was awesome to eat something other than $1 totinos pizzas.

Exactly. Those were the damn days. And when you started, they treated you like a rock star even while there. Then in Summer 2009 when that years' grads graduated, it all ended. Suddenly. Almost overnight.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Exactly. Those were the damn days. And when you started, they treated you like a rock star even while there. Then in Summer 2009 when that years' grads graduated, it all ended. Suddenly. Almost overnight.

Looking back, it was incredibly sudden. Like we went from having no applicants to all of a sudden we were in a situation or - what the hell? Why are 100 pharamcists from CVS applying at our hospital?

 

[Pronounce Doxazosin]

The real question is, how many of 13323 will get licensed

 

[confettiflyer]

The real question is, how many of 13323 will get licensed

I was always skeptical of people not getting licensed (except by choice) — like, did someone really just labor through four years of school and let a single (or two, I suppose, with the juris exam), passable test make it all worthless?

Like, are there actual people who eat up their maximum number of retakes and just go do something else? I want to know what makes them tick, or not tick, as it were.

Just seems crazy to me.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I was always skeptical of people not getting licensed (except by choice) — like, did someone really just labor through four years of school and let a single (or two, I suppose, with the juris exam), passable test make it all worthless?

Like, are there actual people who eat up their maximum number of retakes and just go do something else? I want to know what makes them tick, or not tick, as it were.

Just seems crazy to me.

I had a classmate who was pushed through despite clearly not being competent. She graduated 3 years late because she kept failing therapeutics courses. She went on to fail a couple APPEs which she "successfully" remediated with faculty. The chain she worked for as a cashier refused to promote her to intern because she failed performance reviews.

Obviously we all knew she was wasting her time because she'd never pass her licensing exams.

She failed all three licensing exams multiple times but ended up eventually getting licensed. If she can do it I'm really concerned about those who can't.

 

[297point1]

Like, are there actual people who eat up their maximum number of retakes and just go do something else? I want to know what makes them tick, or not tick, as it were.

As someone who sat across the table from these individuals at Academic Progress Committee hearings for a decade, I know the answer: Irrational confidence.

In their minds:

• No knowledge deficit can't be overcome.
• No bombed exam score is too profound.
• The exam score did not adequately assess their knowledge on the subject matter
• No track record of failure - no matter how lengthy - is predictive of their future performance.
• Everything will be better next semester / next APPE rotation

They keep marching forward, convinced of their ultimate future success. They are persistent; they can usually find a faculty adviser to advocate for them, which draws the process out longer.

It almost always* ends badly.

*There are exceptions to this rule, but they are impossible to predict. But the unlikely and unexpected success of student A is often used as the evidence to support keeping equally unlikely and unexpected to succeed students B through Z around.

 

[mentos]

I heard of someone who maxed out his number of retakes. I think he failed 5 times and had one more chance. He was thinking of what other career he can do. I'm not sure if he ever passed or failed.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

As someone who say across the table from these individuals at Academic Progress Committee hearings for a decade, I know the answer: Irrational confidence.

In their minds:

• No knowledge deficit can't be overcome.
• No bombed exam score is too profound.
• The exam score did not adequately assess their knowledge on the subject matter
• No track record of failure - no matter how lengthy - is predictive of their future performance.
• Everything will be better next semester / next APPE rotation

They keep marching forward, convinced of their ultimate future success. They are persistent; they can usually find a faculty adviser to advocate for them, which draws the process out longer.

It almost always* ends badly.

*There are exceptions to this rule, but they are impossible to predict. But the unlikely and unexpected success of student A is often used as the evidence to support keeping equally unlikely and unexpected to succeed students B through Z around.

So I had a therapeutics course where you had to get over a 70% on every test or you had to retake it. I had this semester that was absolutely crazy. My wife and I both had grandparents suddenly die. My wife had a health scare that put her in the hospital for a few days. Her father got cancer and we had to drive back and forth to Philadelphia numerous times. I didn't have mommy and daddy paying for bills, so I worked 24-32 hours a week, every week. Somewhere along the way I just completely forgot to retake a test I got like a 55 on and, even though I got a 78% in the course, which, granted, was only a "C", it wasn't even close to failing....they failed me.

The test was in October. The professor in question didn't come to me once or email me or anything to remind me that I needed to do this. One day near the end of the semester, I had a regular pre-rotation meeting with the rotation scheduling lady and in slid the professor that taught the test I failed to just reem me for about 45 minutes and to tell me that she was going to make sure I wasn't going to pass the course and go onto rotations. I asked if I could just retake the damned test like next week. Nope. I had to wait until she retaught the course. Which was the entire next damn school year.

Now where the hell are these soft ass professors when I made a minor error? I made an honest damned mistake and I got crucified over it. WTF.

It's been 15 years and I still hold a deep grudge against those damned idiots.

 

[297point1]

Where the hell are these soft ass professors when I made a minor error? I made an honest damned mistake and I got crucified over it. WTF.

All of this could have been avoided if a simple "friendly reminder" email had been sent to you a few days before the deadline. Heck, it need not even be friendly. Just remind them; it takes a lot less time and energy to send a reminder than it takes to fail someone for a policy violation.

Some faculty out there truly are sadistic.

 

[Joleybear]

Hi guys,
I just want to bring an opinion whether my topic is relatable here or not.

For those who are INTERESTED in Pharmacy should study it. If you are not, then don't!

You have to study Pharmacy for 4 years (same process like Dental, Medical, Podiatry) and residency is optional (like Dental), however, after that you will have to work in a place like Walgreens, CVS, Harris Teether, Giant, Target, etc. (which are retail stores). I myself am not interested in Pharamcy since I don't have any passion in it and also the work area that I have to end up working for a long-term. What I also don't like about Pharmacy is that your salary stays the same forever (unless they add a maximum of 10,000 or 20,000). It is not like Medical or Dental where you can actually increase your salary as much as you can or make your own practice. You can create your own store as a Pharmacist but the percentage of those who do that is not that much. Of course they say there are Pharmacist who work in Pfizer or Clinical places, but the percentage is not that high. If you want to not work in Walgreens you have to do residency of Clinical for sample.

However, I don't want to be judgemental or change anyone's mind. Pharmacy is actually a beautiful occupation where you also get your Doctorate Degree. Of course, there are cons in Dental, Medical, Podiatry as well. But I myself can't handle the cons of Pharmacy, however, there are people who can handle it.

I wish you guys the best of luck

I love retail - pharmacy and working retail in general. I think I am a unicorn or something. lol

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I love retail - pharmacy and working retail in general. I think I am a unicorn or something. lol

That's what I thought for the first couple years too.

 

[projektreverb]

I love retail - pharmacy and working retail in general. I think I am a unicorn or something. lol

Give it a bit. It’s like a frog being slowly heated rather than dumped into boiling water. I felt the same way too initially about retail. I started my career in grocery pharmacy chains. You’ll hate it eventually, only a matter of time.

 

[RN2RPh]

All of this could have been avoided if a simple "friendly reminder" email had been sent to you a few days before the deadline. Heck, it need not even be friendly. Just remind them; it takes a lot less time and energy to send a reminder than it takes to fail someone for a policy violation.

Some faculty out there truly are sadistic.

I was once reprimanded by my Experiential Office because one of my answer for my password recovery question was deemed "unprofessional " (they were setting up an account for my APPE site). They made it a big deal, involved my academic advisor blah blah. I knew my place so I pleaded guilty and accepting a punishment of writing like a 3-4 pages essay about professionalism hehe

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I was once reprimanded by my Experiential Office because one of my answer for my password recovery question was deemed "unprofessional " (they were setting up an account for my APPE site). They made it a big deal, involved my academic advisor blah blah. I knew my place so I pleaded guilty and accepting a punishment of writing like a 3-4 pages essay about professionalism hehe

That was always my problem, too. I didn't just accept their bull****, so I always dug in deeper, lol.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I was always skeptical of people not getting licensed (except by choice) — like, did someone really just labor through four years of school and let a single (or two, I suppose, with the juris exam), passable test make it all worthless?

Like, are there actual people who eat up their maximum number of retakes and just go do something else? I want to know what makes them tick, or not tick, as it were.

Just seems crazy to me.

There were two women that i went to school with that literally never did anything with their license.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

There were two women that i went to school with that literally never did anything with their license.

So by choice? What did they end up doing?

 

[projektreverb]

There were two women that i went to school with that literally never did anything with their license.

I know of at least one in my graduating class who took all the exams and is actively licensed. They work in industry so it’s basically useless. But the logic was it’s easier to pass right out of school.

I’m assuming the people you’re referring to aren’t practicing in any capacity?

 

[confettiflyer]

So I had a therapeutics course where you had to get over a 70% on every test or you had to retake it. I had this semester that was absolutely crazy. My wife and I both had grandparents suddenly die. My wife had a health scare that put her in the hospital for a few days. Her father got cancer and we had to drive back and forth to Philadelphia numerous times. I didn't have mommy and daddy paying for bills, so I worked 24-32 hours a week, every week. Somewhere along the way I just completely forgot to retake a test I got like a 55 on and, even though I got a 78% in the course, which, granted, was only a "C", it wasn't even close to failing....they failed me.

The test was in October. The professor in question didn't come to me once or email me or anything to remind me that I needed to do this. One day near the end of the semester, I had a regular pre-rotation meeting with the rotation scheduling lady and in slid the professor that taught the test I failed to just reem me for about 45 minutes and to tell me that she was going to make sure I wasn't going to pass the course and go onto rotations. I asked if I could just retake the damned test like next week. Nope. I had to wait until she retaught the course. Which was the entire next damn school year.

Now where the hell are these soft ass professors when I made a minor error? I made an honest damned mistake and I got crucified over it. WTF.

It's been 15 years and I still hold a deep grudge against those damned idiots.

I think schools forget that alumni have the choice to donate money and time back to their alma maters.

That professor has probably cost the school a lot over the years.

Ya don’t know what ya don’t know. Oh well.

 

[confettiflyer]

There were two women that i went to school with that literally never did anything with their license.

I know two lawyers (by degree), one went into being an HR manager (which requires a bachelor’s degree only) and the other became a food blogger or something.

Like…why. Food blogger i understand, but I feel like if you’re gonna work in HR like dealing with office BS, you might as well be a lawyer and make bank. Oh well, not my circus.

 

[Sparda29]

Exactly. Those were the damn days. And when you started, they treated you like a rock star even while there. Then in Summer 2009 when that years' grads graduated, it all ended. Suddenly. Almost overnight.

Yeah, I remember I was working at CVS, going into 2nd professional year and we heard that the interns were no longer gonna be guaranteed jobs upon graduation.