admission of sexism in match

[rokshana]

Candid means "straightforward, frank". If anything he was too candid.

It was obviously a mistake for him to admit to the OP that there was a gender quota in effect after last year's majority female class. No doubt he didn't realize his mentee would come back to attack him personally with charges of sexism and threats to his career. He likely learned a lesson from this and hopefully he won't shun future prospective female mentees b/c of his experience with OP.

candid...misogynistic...to-may-toe....to-ma-toe...

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[Allydalilo]

Look, I still think it's' f'd up and horrible to rank based on anything but merit. You don't get to rig the balance any more than you get to shun people based on their sex, race, age, etc without regard to the overall program demographics. People love to talk about the example of males in OB, or women in urology. To me, this is equally deplorable. If there's reason to believe that a certain group has limited access to opportunities, not due to their abilities but to circumstances beyond their control, then absolutely, attempt to level the playing field, especially if it's for the greater good. This is the spirit of affirmative action. IMO, this is NOT applicable to gender balance in residency.

With that said, I keep remembering how sad and dejected my attending looked. It absolutely broke my heart. I guess I expected him to say "well yeah, that's the brakes. Go ahead and be mad if you want, whatever." It's true that he did a lot for me, and I truly like the guy. I thought we'd be joking around over coffee at conferences in ten years. Especially after hearing what others said about how little APD has on the list, which is also what he said, I really want to believe that failing to keep any of us wasn't his fault, even if he really believes what he said.

The most likely case: he blurted out something stupid without thinking, and then smoothed over he details in his own mind. I didn't want to drag the residents into it, but I do think he should know that 2 female residents heard him and perceived his comment in the same way I did. However, who hasn't blurted out stupid crap that's probably not PC, and then not known how to fix it? I suppose it's not fair for me to throw him away the minute he shows me he's not perfect.

 

[Allydalilo]

Edit: double posted by accident

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Look, I still think it's' f'd up and horrible to rank based on anything but merit. You don't get to rig the balance any more than you get to shun people based on their sex, race, age, etc without regard to the overall program demographics. People love to talk about the example of males in OB, or women in urology. To me, this is equally deplorable. If there's reason to believe that a certain group has limited access to opportunities, not due to their abilities but to circumstances beyond their control, then absolutely, attempt to level the playing field, especially if it's for the greater good. This is the spirit of affirmative action. IMO, this is NOT applicable to gender balance in residency.

With that said, I keep remembering how sad and dejected my attending looked. It absolutely broke my heart. I guess I expected him to say "well yeah, that's the brakes. Go ahead and be mad if you want, whatever." It's true that he did a lot for me, and I truly like the guy. I thought we'd be joking around over coffee at conferences in ten years. Especially after hearing what others said about how little APD has on the list, which is also what he said, I really want to believe that failing to keep any of us wasn't his fault, even if he really believes what he said.

The most likely case: he blurted out something stupid without thinking, and then smoothed over he details in his own mind. I didn't want to drag the residents into it, but I do think he should know that 2 female residents heard him and perceived his comment in the same way I did. However, who hasn't blurted out stupid crap that's probably not PC, and then not known how to fix it? I suppose it's not fair for me to throw him away the minute he shows me he's not perfect.

Eh.
Attendings throw away residents and medical students without a bat of an eye if we aren't perfect. It's ultimately up to you and he did give you the option to think about it. If you want him to hood you, say so. If you don't want him to hood you, say so. You have to stick with it and don't complicate things anymore than it clearly is.

There's bigger fish to fry than hurt feels. He said something, clearly, and it probably should have been kept to himself. It's out there, and even a "nice person" has to deal with consequences a lot of times. I know I have had to and I'm sure you and others have, too. Hooding is not exactly a matter of life or death, he will move on and I'm sure you will, too.

 

[deleted480308]

Look, I still think it's' f'd up and horrible to rank based on anything but merit. You don't get to rig the balance any more than you get to shun people based on their sex, race, age, etc without regard to the overall program demographics. People love to talk about the example of males in OB, or women in urology. To me, this is equally deplorable. If there's reason to believe that a certain group has limited access to opportunities, not due to their abilities but to circumstances beyond their control, then absolutely, attempt to level the playing field, especially if it's for the greater good. This is the spirit of affirmative action. IMO, this is NOT applicable to gender balance in residency.

With that said, I keep remembering how sad and dejected my attending looked. It absolutely broke my heart. I guess I expected him to say "well yeah, that's the brakes. Go ahead and be mad if you want, whatever." It's true that he did a lot for me, and I truly like the guy. I thought we'd be joking around over coffee at conferences in ten years. Especially after hearing what others said about how little APD has on the list, which is also what he said, I really want to believe that failing to keep any of us wasn't his fault, even if he really believes what he said.

The most likely case: he blurted out something stupid without thinking, and then smoothed over he details in his own mind. I didn't want to drag the residents into it, but I do think he should know that 2 female residents heard him and perceived his comment in the same way I did. However, who hasn't blurted out stupid crap that's probably not PC, and then not known how to fix it? I suppose it's not fair for me to throw him away the minute he shows me he's not perfect.

Unless these women gave express permission to tell him about them, leave them out of it. You got a spot and you're peacing out to good residency (one this man helped you land coincidently). Don't poison the well for those ladies on your way out unless they asked you to. (And to clarify, "yes, he totally said that crappy thing" is different than "yes, you can tell him two of us heard him say that crappy thing")

 

[Law2Doc]

Also, I have talked with the residents who overheard. There were 2, which I didn't realize. They both agree that his statement was way out of line and was NOT meant as a joke. Since he got me by acting so hurt, and thus I left things hanging in mid air with him, I'm going to bring this to his attention and make it more clear where we stand this time. He won't be able to figure out who the residents were anyway, or to do so would mess with his story of "not remembering saying anything like that." At the very least, he owes them an apology, because they're both women. I have no idea how he could be so stupid.

I think unless you intend to push this to an adversarial legal conclusion you really probably should let it go at this point. You said your piece, so to go back now to "make it clear where you stand", stress that you have witnesses and that he owes people an apology, is not going to get you what you seek and will just serve to permanently burn bridges and salt the earth.

 

[Allydalilo]

My friends and I were just talking about this. Oversleep, get sick, give a wrong answer ONCE, and you're "unprofessional," "uninterested," and your future is at risk. On the other hand, there is almost no accountability for our attendings as teachers. Totally botch the syllabus, show up unprepared or not at all to give lecture, allow months to go by before submitting our grades? Who cares? Or in the case of the PD, sling a string of words that would get a child's mouth washed out with soap and throw something in the OR. Shame, shame, that's naughty, but not so naughty that anyone will ensure that it changes. This guy was up to his old tricks within hours of being allowed to work with students again. The funny thing is, the program is a bit of an evil empire with him at the helm and everyone scrambling for his approval, even the chair (who, by the way, personally told me that I had nothing to worry about in reference to matching there.) This makes it even more plausible that the PD simply steamrolled everyone with input. He's gifted for sure, but no amount of talent buys you the right to act like an unruly 4-year old.

 

[Law2Doc]

...On the other hand, there is almost no accountability for our attendings as teachers... but no amount of talent buys you the right to act like an unruly 4-year old.

Um, welcome to the real world? The further up the food chain you are, the more crap you can get away with. This isn't just in medicine, BTW, but every profession. As Mel Brooks would say, "It's good to be the king". You can't do blatantly illegal things or discriminate, but acting like an "unruly 4 year old", sure.

 

[deleted480308]

My friends and I were just talking about this. Oversleep, get sick, give a wrong answer ONCE, and you're "unprofessional," "uninterested," and your future is at risk. On the other hand, there is almost no accountability for our attendings as teachers. Totally botch the syllabus, show up unprepared or not at all to give lecture, allow months to go by before submitting our grades? Who cares? Or in the case of the PD, sling a string of words that would get a child's mouth washed out with soap and throw something in the OR. Shame, shame, that's naughty, but not so naughty that anyone will ensure that it changes. This guy was up to his old tricks within hours of being allowed to work with students again. The funny thing is, the program is a bit of an evil empire with him at the helm and everyone scrambling for his approval, even the chair (who, by the way, personally told me that I had nothing to worry about in reference to matching there.) This makes it even more plausible that the PD simply steamrolled everyone with input. He's gifted for sure, but no amount of talent buys you the right to act like an unruly 4-year old.

You just matched and are on your way to being a doctor in America. you are friggin' winning here. Take the W.....move on

Don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

 

[hmockingbird]

Unless these women gave express permission to tell him about them, leave them out of it. You got a spot and you're peacing out to good residency (one this man helped you land coincidently). Don't poison the well for those ladies on your way out unless they asked you to. (And to clarify, "yes, he totally said that crappy thing" is different than "yes, you can tell him two of us heard him say that crappy thing")

I think unless you intend to push this to an adversarial legal conclusion you really probably should let it go at this point. You said your piece, so to go back now to "make it clear where you stand", stress that you have witnesses and that he owes people an apology, is not going to get you what you seek and will just serve to permanently burn bridges and salt the earth.

Both of these.

He has already denied saying it and started melodrama (he's an adult, even if he wanted to deny that he said it, it sounds like he went WAY overboard), I don't think you are going to get a different response this time. Also, you do not want to start drama within the program between hi and these residents.

If you don't think you got through to him that he won't be hooding you just send a succinct, to-the-point email (I think there was some good wording suggested earlier in the thread) and leave it at that.