Alliant PsyD SF

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I feel like I can contribute to this thread because I completed my postdoctoral training in California and have worked with people from Alliant, as well as other professional schools in the area. I've also attended trainings with MH clinicians who worked at Kaiser. Note that this was not the Bay Area, although some people I met had attended schools in that area.

Concerning Alliant's quality of training, I know some quality clinicians and even researchers from that program. However, it seems like most of them who got quality training did so outside of the school (such as volunteering in research labs or clinical practica outside of Alliant). I also know one of them who expressed negative thoughts towards the program and some of their fellow students. Basically, my impression is that you can become a high quality clinician and researcher in that program, but it takes some extra effort. There also seem to be some people who weren't so quality and they were able to skate by. I also would discuss my concerns about cost based on professional school graduates I know who are now early career psychologists, but OP has indicated that they would have their own source of funding.

Concerning Kaiser, yes, the clinicians I met raised concerns about the quality of mental healthcare that they could provide due to institutional problems. They definitely seemed to feel overworked.

I understand not wanting to leave California. That being said, a lot of people I met during my post-doctoral training were originally from California. Most of them had left the state for grad school and possibly internship, and had returned for fellowship. They were able to get competitive fellowships in California because they had been willing to be flexible about where they lived during their earlier training, and eventually it paid off. Do I think that it's ridiculous that psychology doctoral training requires so much moving around? Yes, definitely. But that's something we can't change right now. So, basically, the choices are: get a professional school degree and take on all of the risk that accompanies that, move away temporarily and maybe be miserable and far from your support system to attend a more reputable program, or pursue a Masters-level degree and give up the dream of being a psychologist. Yeah, all of these have their pros and cons. I can tell you which one I'd choose if I were you, but that's about it.
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pkg1234 said:
As psychologist who have been in the field, one would think they would show less "tough love" and a little more support and understanding. Isn't that what you do for a living??.
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You'd be well served to know that psychologists do not offer support and understandings for a living. Psychologists are required to confront hard truths, lies, misconceptions, etc on a daily basis.

Example 1: Using CBT to confront incorrect beliefs.
Example 2: All OCD treatments.
Example 3: Telling a patient that they are not suitable for bariatric surgery, even though they really really want it.
Example 4: Confronting a patient that is clearly lying.
Example 5: Telling a patient that they are not getting what they want.
Example 6: Getting threatened by a patient.
Example 7: Having patients demand a report NOW, when you can only finish it next week.
 
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Such a key point that @PSYDR made

Example 8: Involuntary commitment
Example 9: Concluding individuals are not capable of making their own decisions
Example 10: Telling a parent they need to not see their kids right now because it would be unhealthy for both
Example 11: Diagnosing someone with a diagnosis that they 'dont think they have'
Example 12: Telling a family member that the patient has dementia and isn't 'just having a bad day'

The examples are endless.
 
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PSYDR said:
You'd be well served to know that psychologists do not offer support and understandings for a living. Psychologists are required to confront hard truths, lies, misconceptions, etc on a daily basis.

Example 1: Using CBT to confront incorrect beliefs.
Example 2: All OCD treatments.
Example 3: Telling a patient that they are not suitable for bariatric surgery, even though they really really want it.
Example 4: Confronting a patient that is clearly lying.
Example 5: Telling a patient that they are not getting what they want.
Example 6: Getting threatened by a patient.
Example 7: Having patients demand a report NOW, when you can only finish it next week.
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Thanks for that. And I understand that the job is going to require me to show tough love. In this case however, I’m not a patient. Just a student looking for advice. And I appreciate the good advice, but for the ones who give it in a mean way, perhaps they can show a little more kindness when giving feedback to students who are young and uninformed. When I say, isn’t it apart of your job to show support, I meant specifically as the role of a mentor or senior in the field. many of you come on here to give advice to students who want to be like you (established doctors) one day, why not give them good information without ridiculing or being pretentious? That’s really all I was getting at with that comment.
 
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cara susanna said:
I feel like I can contribute to this thread because I completed my postdoctoral training in California and have worked with people from Alliant, as well as other professional schools in the area. I've also attended trainings with MH clinicians who worked at Kaiser. Note that this was not the Bay Area, although some people I met had attended schools in that area.

Concerning Alliant's quality of training, I know some quality clinicians and even researchers from that program. However, it seems like most of them who got quality training did so outside of the school (such as volunteering in research labs or clinical practica outside of Alliant). I also know one of them who expressed negative thoughts towards the program and some of their fellow students. Basically, my impression is that you can become a high quality clinician and researcher in that program, but it takes some extra effort. There also seem to be some people who weren't so quality and they were able to skate by. I also would discuss my concerns about cost based on professional school graduates I know who are now early career psychologists, but OP has indicated that they would have their own source of funding.

Concerning Kaiser, yes, the clinicians I met raised concerns about the quality of mental healthcare that they could provide due to institutional problems. They definitely seemed to feel overworked.

I understand not wanting to leave California. That being said, a lot of people I met during my post-doctoral training were originally from California. Most of them had left the state for grad school and possibly internship, and had returned for fellowship. They were able to get competitive fellowships in California because they had been willing to be flexible about where they lived during their earlier training, and eventually it paid off. Do I think that it's ridiculous that psychology doctoral training requires so much moving around? Yes, definitely. But that's something we can't change right now. So, basically, the choices are: get a professional school degree and take on all of the risk that accompanies that, move away temporarily and maybe be miserable and far from your support system to attend a more reputable program, or pursue a Masters-level degree and give up the dream of being a psychologist. Yeah, all of these have their pros and cons. I can tell you which one I'd choose if I were you, but that's about it.
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Thanks for tour well articulated response and for all of the information. What are some reputable programs for the PsyD in your opinion?
 
pkg123 said:
Thanks for that. And I understand that the job is going to require me to show tough love. In this case however, I’m not a patient. Just a student looking for advice. And I appreciate the good advice, but for the ones who give it in a mean way, perhaps they can show a little more kindness when giving feedback to students who are young and uninformed. When I say, isn’t it apart of your job to show support, I meant specifically as the role of a mentor or senior in the field. many of you come on here to give advice to students who want to be like you (established doctors) one day, why not give them good information without ridiculing or being pretentious? That’s really all I was getting at with that comment.
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FWIW, I left the Bay Area for grad school (it was hard, but I’m so glad I did now). When I got to school, I immediately noticed that my selected mentor had this habit of needing to remind me constantly that he was the reason I got in (I got into other programs too, so it’s not like I wasn’t qualified), and it said a lot about his personality. I was thankfully able to switch advisors and ended up with a tough but kind mentor who I still have a very warm relationship with today. I encourage you to continue to seek out life’s mentors who can tell you the truth without putting you down. It tends to show that they are putting your needs ahead of their own. That said, this is an Internet forum so you do need to adjust expectations of how much investment the regular posters have to any given anonymous poster on here
 
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pkg1234 said:
I am in a really vulnerable place right now, i'm 22 years old, about to graduate, and just confused on how to reach my goals. I understand that life will be hard and I will deal with a lot of adversity in the field. And I will use this time to prepare myself mentally for those challenges. But at this current moment of my life, I am just a little more sensitive to those comments questioning the legitimacy behind my goals.
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That must be tough getting ready to graduate in a really volatile world. When I finished undergrad I remember feeling unsure if the path I was taking (corporate consulting) was right for me. The good news was I eventually found my way back to psych, found a program, etc.

I share this bc in the moment it can feel really overwhelming, but it usually gets worked out. You can also push and feel pressured bc it’s uncomfortable to be stagnant, but often this leads to problems. It’s a big decision that really needs a lot of consideration. Measure twice, cut once...great advice from a builder I know. In today’s world of instant gratification, it can really be tough to slow down. Trust me though, you want to make sure you consider all information.

SDN can be great for information, though it comes in many forms. Sometimes the information is not what you want to hear, but it can still help. The content is usually pretty good, though the delivery...eh. I *wish* I had this when I decided to change careers, but the Clinical Psych forum didn’t exist back then. People charge hundreds of dollars an hour to consult about things, and it is free on here.

I post on here bc I know how hard it was before it existed and it’s a way to give back to the field. I’m not always posting with kid gloves, but I hope the information can help ppl. It’s not my job to be nice, but I try most of the time, but it can be frustrating. I just wanted to post from the other side tobprovide a different perspective.
 
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StellaB said:
FWIW, I left the Bay Area for grad school (it was hard, but I’m so glad I did now). When I got to school, I immediately noticed that my selected mentor had this habit of needing to remind me constantly that he was the reason I got in (I got into other programs too, so it’s not like I wasn’t qualified), and it said a lot about his personality. I was thankfully able to switch advisors and ended up with a tough but kind mentor who I still have a very warm relationship with today. I encourage you to continue to seek out life’s mentors who can tell you the truth without putting you down. It tends to show that they are putting your needs ahead of their own. That said, this is an Internet forum so you do need to adjust expectations of how much investment the regular posters have to any given anonymous poster on here
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Hi, I completely understand where you're coming from. I honestly didn't think that asking adults to be kind when giving advice to newbies was that much of an investment. They come on here out of there own will to answer questions, so how hard is it really to proofread your message once before submitting to make sure that what you're saying is honest, helpful, kind, and necessary. (for example, taking about license plates). I wasn't asking for mentorship, i'm just saying that when you are a professional in your field, and other newbies come to this forum for answers,( where you frequently give advice) it would be nice to be met with real advice in a kind manner and without putdowns.
 
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pkg123 said:
When I say, isn’t it apart of your job to show support, I meant specifically as the role of a mentor or senior in the field. many of you come on here to give advice to students who want to be like you (established doctors) one day, why not give them good information without ridiculing or being pretentious?
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Look, I see your point that feedback can be framed more kindly at times. At the same time, just as you are not a patient in treatment with any psychologists here, you also are not in a supervisee/mentee relationship with them. It is not the job of a psychologist to support every potential applicant in the field. In fact I would say that an ideal approach balances support with deterrence from making (perceived) mistakes. And also that psychologists have as much responsibility for protecting the quality of their field as they do for supporting/encouraging applicants. So, whenever a potential student posts a controversial question, they can expect to get a variety of responses reflecting all of those perspectives. They're going to see some support and suggestions, and also a peek into what people in the field are really thinking about their decisions. You can make of that what you will, by telling them they're wrong to share that with you, or taking it as another data point about this field.

I think the best advice regarding this issue is basically what StellaB has said. Build your mentorship network by engaging more with people whose feedback you find helpful, and disengaging with people whose feedback you find unhelpful. Because there ARE plenty of people here and elsewhere who are happy to help you out.
 
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Therapist4Chnge said:
That must be tough getting ready to graduate in a really volatile world. When I finished undergrad I remember feeling unsure if the path I was taking (corporate consulting) was right for me. The good news was I eventually found my way back to psych, found a program, etc.

I share this bc in the moment it can feel really overwhelming, but it usually gets worked out. You can also push and feel pressured bc it’s uncomfortable to be stagnant, but often this leads to problems. It’s a big decision that really needs a lot of consideration. Measure twice, cut once...great advice from a builder I know. In today’s world of instant gratification, it can really be tough to slow down. Trust me though, you want to make sure you consider all information.

SDN can be great for information, though it comes in many forms. Sometimes the information is not what you want to hear, but it can still help. The content is usually pretty good, though the delivery...eh. I *wish* I had this when I decided to change careers, but the Clinical Psych forum didn’t exist back then. People charge hundreds of dollars an hour to consult about things, and it is free on here.

I post on here bc I know how hard it was before it existed and it’s a way to give back to the field. I’m not always posting with kid gloves, but I hope the information can help ppl. It’s not my job to be nice, but I try most of the time, but it can be frustrating. I just wanted to post from the other side tobprovide a different perspective.
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Thanks for your response and understanding where I am coming from.
Unipsychler said:
Look, I see your point that feedback can be framed more kindly at times. At the same time, just as you are not a patient in treatment with any psychologists here, you also are not in a supervisee/mentee relationship with them. It is not the job of a psychologist to support every potential applicant in the field. In fact I would say that an ideal approach balances support with deterrence from making (perceived) mistakes. And also that psychologists have as much responsibility for protecting the quality of their field as they do for supporting/encouraging applicants. So, whenever a potential student posts a controversial question, they can expect to get a variety of responses reflecting all of those perspectives. They're going to see some support and suggestions, and also a peek into what people in the field are really thinking about their decisions. You can make of that what you will, by telling them they're wrong to share that with you, or taking it as another data point about this field.

I think the best advice regarding this issue is basically what StellaB has said. Build your mentorship network by engaging more with people whose feedback you find helpful, and disengaging with people whose feedback you find unhelpful. Because there ARE plenty of people here and elsewhere who are happy to help you out.
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I have found some people on here who have private messaged me and have given me great information and support. And that is appreciated soooo much. I made this thread to gain answers, and i appreciate all the responses. I have tried multiple times to express how thankful I am for everyones advice. I don't appreciate some of the attitudes but I can't change that, I can only change the way I react to the situation. Next time, I will make sure to be prepared for rude responses in the forum. This was one of my first posts on here, so my apologies for not being prepared for some of the rude people on here.
 
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pkg123 said:
Thanks for tour well articulated response and for all of the information. What are some reputable programs for the PsyD in your opinion?
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The ones WisNeuro mentioned above. Palo Alto U also seems to have good training, but it's ridiculously expensive and you may still run into professional school stigma with a degree from there.

If you are willing to be geographically flexible, I would strongly encourage you to consider balanced or clinically-oriented PhD programs. They do exist.
 
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cara susanna said:
The ones WisNeuro mentioned above. Palo Alto U also seems to have good training, but it's ridiculously expensive and you may still run into professional school stigma with a degree from there.

If you are willing to be geographically flexible, I would strongly encourage you to consider balanced or clinically-oriented PhD programs. They do exist.
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I will definitely look into that!
 
pkg1234 said:
Thanks for your response and understanding where I am coming from.


I have found some people on here who have private messaged me and have given me great information and support. And that is appreciated soooo much. I made this thread to gain answers, and i appreciate all the responses. I have tried multiple times to express how thankful I am for everyones advice. I don't appreciate some of the attitudes but I can't change that, I can only change the way I react to the situation. Next time, I will make sure to be prepared for rude responses in the forum. This was one of my first posts on here, so my apologies for not being prepared for some of the rude people on here.
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I’ve been super impressed with how you have handled the comments on this thread. I just want to urge you not to short change yourself. Your options right now are not just between going to Alliant and getting a terminal masters. You’re only 22 and still have so much more time. I was 30 when I started my program and there were 3 people older than me and 3 people younger than me in my cohort. I do think if you take the next couple years to get an MA at any of the local programs mentioned (SFSU, Sonoma State, Cal State) you’ll have much better options, including PGSP and Palo Alto University (and maybe even UC Berkeley if you work hard enough for it). Do not settle for subpar training. If you are going to invest 5-7 years (at least) you want to finish having plenty of career options to choose from. Begin your career feeling good about yourself. You deserve to give yourself that chance!
 
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WisNeuro said:
Baylor, Rutgers, Indianapolis, Denver, Loyola (MD), Xavier come to mind.
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I love love love Denver's faculty and think they provide excellent training, but the extremely high cost and almost non-existent funding there is a concern. I know the OP has means, but I'm just putting that out there for other readers who don't.

Like @cara susanna , I've known good researchers and clinicians who came out of Alliant, but they mostly said that they did so in spite of the program, not because it (e.g., one had longstanding connections at a UC med school and got most of her actual training and mentorship there, not from the Alliant faculty).
 
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foreverbull said:
After reading your thoughts and the suggestions of others, my thoughts are:

If you are set on Kaiser and Kaiser only at the doctoral level, that is a narrow path to take that requires a doctorate. If I were you, I’d reflect more on why specifically this sounds like what you want to do. A colleague who used to work at Kaiser shared that Kaiser overworks therapists, forcing them to do tons of half-hour sessions with clients, no time for notes in between, working through breaks, etc. Kaiser has also has a history of trying to punish psychologists/therapists as a group for striking/whistleblowing about the horrendous waitlists to see a therapist in the past. I’m sure treatment of employees varies by area/department and hospital, so I’d strongly urge you to talk to psychologists who currently work at Kaiser or recently left Kaiser to see what the current milieu is like. You might even ask to shadow one for a day if they’d be willing.

As others mentioned, if you're open to it, an MSW or MFT program might give you the experience you want while being enough training/education to stop and practice or go on to apply to doctoral programs with a stronger CV and higher GPA. I specifically pursued a master’s to prepare for a doctorate and beef up my CV, and it worked.

I worked alongside a few folks from Sonoma State’s MFT program and all three were solid therapists at the master’s level.

Point being, you have a lot of options, and don’t have to feel trapped pursuing one path when what you want to do (diagnose/treat mental illness in California) is achievable via 3 separate graduate degrees and a multitude of professional settings. You have some flexibility here.

Good luck!

Edit: 4 degrees are options: MSW, MFT, PsyD, PhD.
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This is what I was getting at with my earlier posts. Several really smart, hard-working people I have a lot of respect for have also discussed eerily similar conditions with me. I believe there was also a ridiculously small amount of PTO somewhere in that mix. I think it's important to understand the possible career trajectories. Depending on the person, no one is better than the other, but you need to feel comfortable with the doors that will be open to you based on lifestyle, quality of life, career goals, etc. Try connecting with one or a few to see if you can learn more about their experiences.

In a heavily saturated place like CA, I would think it might make even more sense to get a terminal counseling degree and eventually go back for a PhD in counselor education if later so inclined because you might have more freely available career/side gig options at the end of everything (i.e., therapy, supervising students, teaching, consulting). Just an idea.
 
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Having looked at Loyola’s program myself, I found it to be prohibitively expensive with very little funding available and none above half tuition. They do not have good funding IMO.
 
pkg123 said:
Thanks for that. And I understand that the job is going to require me to show tough love. In this case however, I’m not a patient. Just a student looking for advice. And I appreciate the good advice, but for the ones who give it in a mean way, perhaps they can show a little more kindness when giving feedback to students who are young and uninformed. When I say, isn’t it apart of your job to show support, I meant specifically as the role of a mentor or senior in the field. many of you come on here to give advice to students who want to be like you (established doctors) one day, why not give them good information without ridiculing or being pretentious? That’s really all I was getting at with that comment.
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I get what you’re saying. And I doubt anyone wants to be like me. And I agree that all things being equal, kindness is generally a good thing. But there are limitations in this medium of communication. And anyone entering this field should prepare themselves for there harsh information because it’s inherent in this field.

I’ll offer these anecdotes:

Example A: Very recently, I was ruthlessly mocked in front of a group of senior professionals in my little subfield. The merits of their criticisms were 100% accurate. But the jokster has also taught me an incredible amount, introduced me to important people, literally given me sources of income because I asked, and offered their help any time I want. I could have pulled the guy aside and complained that he was being mean. But that would have changed me from “young guy on his way up that made a mistake” to “ungrateful young guy who can’t take a joke or responsibility”. So I took it and fixed the problem.

Example B: My dissertation chair’s first feedback session on the first 10 pages was, “this is awful”. No lie. That’s damn near verbatim. Asking to be kind doesn’t work in that situation. Just saying “oookay” and going home to feel hurt wild have down nothing. What did work was eating my pride, accepting the feedback, and asking for ways I could improve.

Example C: Bery recently I asked one colleague how she did X, because I found that the task was onerous. She literally laughed at me, told the people next to her that I was doing things the hard way, got a huge laugh, and then taught me how to do the task in a literal fraction of the method I was using. Damn if the hit to the ego wasn’t worth the education.
 
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PSYDR said:
I get what you’re saying. And I doubt anyone wants to be like me. And I agree that all things being equal, kindness is generally a good thing. But there are limitations in this medium of communication. And anyone entering this field should prepare themselves for there harsh information because it’s inherent in this field.

I’ll offer these anecdotes:

Example A: Very recently, I was ruthlessly mocked in front of a group of senior professionals in my little subfield. The merits of their criticisms were 100% accurate. But the jokster has also taught me an incredible amount, introduced me to important people, literally given me sources of income because I asked, and offered their help any time I want. I could have pulled the guy aside and complained that he was being mean. But that would have changed me from “young guy on his way up that made a mistake” to “ungrateful young guy who can’t take a joke or responsibility”. So I took it and fixed the problem.

Example B: My dissertation chair’s first feedback session on the first 10 pages was, “this is awful”. No lie. That’s damn near verbatim. Asking to be kind doesn’t work in that situation. Just saying “oookay” and going home to feel hurt wild have down nothing. What did work was eating my pride, accepting the feedback, and asking for ways I could improve.

Example C: Bery recently I asked one colleague how she did X, because I found that the task was onerous. She literally laughed at me, told the people next to her that I was doing things the hard way, got a huge laugh, and then taught me how to do the task in a literal fraction of the method I was using. Damn if the hit to the ego wasn’t worth the education.
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This is all good feedback, but to be fair to pkg1234, this appears to be what she’s already doing. At the end of the day, the level of ad hominem attacks on this thread has been unjustified and she’s still clearly trying to sift through and find the useful feedback. Not sure this process really needed to be explained...
 
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pkg1234 said:
I don't appreciate some of the attitudes but I can't change that, I can only change the way I react to the situation. Next time, I will make sure to be prepared for rude responses in the forum.
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I think this is a great way to handle it. And you'll need to get really good at it to be successful in this field.

Think back to how you initially felt when reading that license plate comment, before you were able to discuss it and process it. That is the first of many, many times you will feel that way. You're going to be rejected by programs, mentors, pratica, jobs, etc. dozens of times, sometimes for stupid reasons, and sometimes for reasons that will wound you to your core. Mentors will pull support from projects that you're depending on for selfish reasons, or rip into your work for relevant reasons. Personalty-disordered patients will scream that you are the worst therapist ever. If you do end up at a controversial PsyD program, this thread is just the beginning of the stigmatizing comments that will be thrown your way. Many of these exchanges will not be handled tactfully.

And you'll have to get up the next morning and be emotionally present for 5 patients in a row at your practicum, while keeping up with your dissertation so you can gtfo of grad school. You will not have the time or energy to have a serious discussion about how their feedback made you feel, you'll need to just roll over and move onto the next thing where your efforts will be fruitful.

I pinky swear, I'm not saying any of this to discourage you or shame you. It's just that it's in your best interest to think about this before you are three years (and $100k of your parents' money) into a commitment.
 
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Again, not sure why people feel the need to pontificate about interpersonal skills pkg1234 allegedly still needs to master when she’s demonstrating mastery of it already. Perhaps more mastery of such than some of the familiar handles. The term “mansplaining” comes to mind.

As a woman, pkg, I do regret to tell you that this aspect of professional life is not circumscribed to psychology, but it does improve *somewhat* as you gain experience and gray hair.
 
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StellaB said:
Again, not sure why people feel the need to pontificate about interpersonal skills pkg1234 allegedly still needs to master when she’s demonstrating mastery of it already. Perhaps more mastery of such than some of the familiar handles. The term “mansplaining” comes to mind.
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If you're referring to me, I'm also a woman. And on open internet forums, people will pontificate about what they feel are the most salient topics of advice. There'll be different takes on what qualifies. My take is that it's premature to say she's mastered this skill after demonstrating it once. It took me years and years to feel comfortable with that particular skill, and it was helpful for me to hear people elaborate on their experiences with it.
 
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Unipsychler said:
If you're referring to me, I'm also a woman. And on open internet forums, people will pontificate about what they feel are the most salient topics of advice. There'll be different takes on what qualifies. My take is that it's premature to say she's mastered this skill after demonstrating it once. It took me years and years to feel comfortable with that particular skill, and it was helpful for me to hear people elaborate on their experiences with it.
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Fair point. Reading back through the thread, it feels like the implication (over several posts, not specific to yours) is that she needs to change/mature/get used to harsh words, when in reality she handled the thread just fine. I don’t see erg on here publicly rethinking his communication style or expressing appreciation for the direct feedback he’s gotten. Professional development on here can be a two-way street; we all have more to learn.
 
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I agree that she reached a good stance with it, eventually. And being able to get there even quicker will free her from unnecessary stress in grad school and beyond. I really don't mean that in a judgmental way; I'm still mastering it myself. My intention was just to pinpoint the particular thing that she did well, and encourage her to keep doing it even more.

And yes, erg is not contrite. He likely will not become so in this thread, nor the next one. I'm not passing judgment on that either, just advising this and other students that beating one's head against a wall is often not the best use of one's efforts.
 
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StellaB said:
I don’t see erg on here publicly rethinking his communication style or expressing appreciation for the direct feedback he’s gotten. Professional development on here can be a two-way street; we all have more to learn.
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Unipsychler said:
And yes, erg is not contrite. He likely will not become so in this thread, nor the next one. I'm not passing judgment on that either, just advising this and other students that beating one's head against a wall is often not the best use of one's efforts.
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lol, I muted that jerk @erg923 a long time ago. I don't think anyone on here likes that person :laugh:
 
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Seriously. Instead, numerous people justify his response and blame OP by saying she is too sensitive. I agree she has handled exchanges on this thread very beautifully, probably much better than I would have.
StellaB said:
Fair point. Reading back through the thread, it feels like the implication (over several posts, not specific to yours) is that she needs to change/mature/get used to harsh words, when in reality she handled the thread just fine. I don’t see erg on here publicly rethinking his communication style or expressing appreciation for the direct feedback he’s gotten. Professional development on here can be a two-way street; we all have more to learn.
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LadyHalcyon said:
Seriously. Instead, numerous people justify his response and blame OP by saying she is too sensitive. I agree she has handled exchanges on this thread very beautifully, probably much better than I would have.
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Aww, thank you! I appreciate you both for this!
 
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Jegg said:
Maybe no pancakes for anyone if this thread keeps going... :eyebrow:
Click to expand...
I’m not sure if you have discovered this, but both waffles and french toast are obviously superior to pancakes. There are exceptional pancakes out there, but let’s just be realistic.
 
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Pragma said:
I’m not sure if you have discovered this, but both waffles and french toast are obviously superior to pancakes. There are exceptional pancakes out there, but let’s just be realistic.
Click to expand...

Are you ‘mansplaining’ breakfast cakes to me?
:poke:
:whistle:

You obviously haven’t had pancakes at Le Barricou in Brooklyn, NY.
 
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Pancakes vs waffles vs french toast?

This is a debate I want in on. Where does stuffed french toast fall on the spectrum?
 
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