An Introduction and Plea for Guidance

[EY1]

Hello All...

I am looking for guidance about pursuing a Ph.D in Psychology. I'm sure this topic has posed many times before, so please except my apologies in advance for both my ignorance and repetition.

To give you some basic background information, I'm in my mid-20s, and graduated with a degree in Film. I've been working for a few years in the television industry and have found it's not all that I'd hoped it would be... I should say it's not at all what I'd hoped it would be, nor, any longer, what I want.

In thinking about my interests, and possible other avenues to pursue, everything comes back to my undergraduate concentration of psychology. (It would have been a minor but I chose the classes most interesting to me, rather than those outlined to get an official 'minor' listed on my transcript). Those classes that I did take, I found some of the most interesting in my 4 years of study. If my memory serves me correctly, I scored all A's in them as well, not that that is any true measure of forthcoming success in the field.

So, after toying with the idea of Law School, solely for the dollar sign, I think the place for my is Psychology. The question I'm left with is what next? Upon doing some cursory research, I've found more information than I really know what to do with. Ph.D, Psy.D, MA, Clinical, Social, Counseling, et al. I'm a bit overwhelmed.

I am very interested by the idea of working directly with patients. My mother suffers from depression so that has always hit close to home. I'm fascinated by psychological disorders and abnormal psych. I enjoy studying human interaction, relationships, and behavior.

There are a host of other things that fascinated me while in school but in with respect to keeping this (somewhat) brief, I'll stick to the main interest.

Clinical Psychology vs Counseling, maybe? Though some of my interests see to lie in Social Psych? Unlike undergrad, I realize you need to be much more focused going in, so I'm looking for guidance to narrow my focus. I am also in touch with one of my Professors and a working therapist with a Social Psychology degree. I'm also gathering reading materials to bolster my education. I am a fairly prominent poster on another message board, so I figured I'd give this a try here.

Being that I know my way around message boards, I know posts like this can be annoying to the regular members who've seen it all before, so again I offer my apologies and hope that a few of you might be willing to help point me in the right direction. I'm happy to answer any more questions that will help get the ball rolling on this discussion... Thanks.

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[Thrak]

As odd as this is going to sound, I suggest you start studying for the Psych GRE. For one, odds are you're going to need to take it anyway wherever you apply, especially if it's for a PhD or PsyD. More importantly, though, as you study, you'll get a better feel for the different areas in Psych, and hopefully narrow down your interests a bit more. That should give you some direction.

 

[edieb]

I was in the same place as you before I applied, and all I can say is that this book, by the American Psychological Association (APA) is a lifesaver:

http://books.apa.org/books.cfm?id=4313011

 

[wkupmaggie]

Hi, Well there is nothing more exciting than making a career change to a field that you are excited about! So the great (and time consuming) position you are in is that you can evaluate all of your options, and there are A LOT of them. If your main goal is to see clients there are several directions you could go, such as:

MA of MS in clinical or counseling psych,
MFT (Master's Marriage and Family Therapy)
MSW (Master's in Social Work)
Psy.D
MA/Eds in School Psych (more narrow school focus, but still a great job)
PhD (Although if you JUST wanted to see clients, this would not be the best choice)

I agree with the book recommendation. Also, you may want to look for opportunities for clinical and research experience. Both will look good on applications. Also, these experiences will help you to narrow down which direction you should go. If you love the clinical experience but hate the research, then you know a more clinical degree (MA/MS/MSW/PsyD) will be best. Or if you find you love the research and would want to pursue that just as much (if not more) than the clinical work then you might be looking at a phd program.

I just finished my Master's in Clinical Psych last year and, although it varies from state to state, there are lots of opportunities for Master's level clinicians. I wouldn't be applying to go back to school except that I really like research. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Good Luck!

 

[EkramVahsedi86]

Trust me, you aren't going to get what you're looking for if you take that direct route.

Do a Masters in economics, and then go to law school. 10 years later you will be making big money, and you will appreciate the work. I quit the path of law school to become a doctor. I was registered for the LSAT 2 years ago, something I always felt uncertain about chosing a career. I was just going to do the "bad thing" of getting it as a well-rounded complement to polish off my business degree and I had no interest in working in law, just in business. Companies hire people with law degrees because they know you are very smart and logical. Law schools discourage this so don't include this post in your apps. Plus the LSAT is so easy to study for, if you are good at math/science.

 

[Thrak]

Trust me, you aren't going to get what you're looking for if you take that direct route.

Do a Masters in economics, and then go to law school. 10 years later you will be making big money, and you will appreciate the work. I quit the path of law school to become a doctor. I was registered for the LSAT 2 years ago, something I always felt uncertain about chosing a career. I was just going to do the "bad thing" of getting it as a well-rounded complement to polish off my business degree and I had no interest in working in law, just in business. Companies hire people with law degrees because they know you are very smart and logical. Law schools discourage this so don't include this post in your apps. Plus the LSAT is so easy to study for, if you are good at math/science.

If money was the prime motivator, I don't think the original poster would have been mentioning the desire to work with patients.

Also, you're basically suggesting a total of, oh, I don't know, maybe 250-300k of debt? And trying to game a system that right now is on its way down in terms of need for executives due to a faltering economy?

 

[EY1]

As odd as this is going to sound, I suggest you start studying for the Psych GRE. For one, odds are you're going to need to take it anyway wherever you apply, especially if it's for a PhD or PsyD. More importantly, though, as you study, you'll get a better feel for the different areas in Psych, and hopefully narrow down your interests a bit more. That should give you some direction.

Doesn't sound too strange at all.

Though I wasn't sure about taking the test in the first place. I know it's recommended by a lot of schools, but I didn't know if coming from the workforce/not a psych major would make my application still competitive without it.

I say this because I would assume the expectations for me would not be to know specific researchers and such. Certainly overarching concepts, but my memory of everything from school is expectantly gray.

 

[EY1]

PhD (Although if you JUST wanted to see clients, this would not be the best choice)

Could you please elaborate on this?

I'm not sure that I JUST want to see clients, but wouldn't having the Ph.D make me the most marketable?

 

[EY1]

If money was the prime motivator, I don't think the original poster would have been mentioning the desire to work with patients.

Also, you're basically suggesting a total of, oh, I don't know, maybe 250-300k of debt? And trying to game a system that right now is on its way down in terms of need for executives due to a faltering economy?

Money is important, and I certainly would like to end up with a private practice at some point, if it's ultimately the route I choose... but if money was the prime motivator, I'd be in law school this fall.

 

[HeyJude]

I strongly disagree with the sentiment that one shouldn't pursue a PhD if your not interested in conducting research down the road. While you are much more involved in research in a Ph.D program, I believe this experience will greatly enhance your knowledge, appreciation, and ability to be a good consumer of research in the future (i.e. making sure you techniques are empirically-based etc). A PhD also allows you more flexibility if you decide you don't want to solely be a clinician. I am in a pretty clinically-oriented PhD program where most people are planning to primarilly go into private practice and we are all grateful for our research experience.

I recommend some soul searching, and a cost/benefit analysis of some facters such as: time you want to spend in school, time you want to spend in preparation, flexibility in your future career, and your financial situation. The doctoral programs takes the longest, and a phd is usually slightly longer than a psyd. For most PhD program you need a good deal of research experience and to narrow your research interests before you apply. While psyd programs "typically" have higher acceptance rates, phd programs are almost always full or partially funded. This is often a huge advagtage. I recommend taking a peak at the psyd versus phd thread.

If you're not commited to 5+ six years of school, you should consider a masters program. These program are a great deal shorter though rarely funded. I'm sure you can find much more on this on the psychology masters board.

You're welcome to PM me if you have any more specific questions.

 

[PsyDr]

Social psych does not involve any clinical work...there is no social psych license. i highly doubt your therapist is a social psychologist.

are you referring to social work, perhaps?

 

[Ollie123]

Could have gone through a respec program after getting a social psych degree...

 

[PsyDr]

yeah, i thought about that.


but would you really recommend a 5-7 yr degree with another 2-3 years respecialization program to anyone? and think about trying to sell a social psych phd to any site on appic. hello, clearinghouse.

 

[Ollie123]

oh hell no I wouldn't recommend it, just mentioning that it is technically possible to be practicing with a PhD in social psych

There are enough clinical folks who do more "basic" research in cognitive, social, or neuro/bio that I think it makes way more sense to go the clinical route and pick out faculty who do that kind of work.

 

[KillerDiller]

Hi there EY1. I was in a very similar position to yours a few years ago. I studied theater in college and then, after deciding it wasn't for me, switched to working towards the ultimate goal of a Ph.D in psychology. Keep in mind, then, that I'm biased towards the route I took because it has worked out well for me. That being said, I think you are a strong candidate for obtaining a terminal Masters degree before looking onward toward doctoral programs. Ph.D programs are so competitive that it means there isn't really any room for those who don't have an extensive psych background. Thus, obtaining that background in a Masters program is a good way to go. There are even some funded programs out there that will pay you a stipend while you earn your Masters degree and get the experience you will need to be more competitive.

The issue does come down to whether you would want to pursue doctoral level work in psychology or whether you would be content practicing as a Masters level clinician. If you attend a program like an MA in clinical psych or an MSW you will eventually be able to work with clients as a case manager or as a therapist, but these programs do not necessarily set you up to gain admissions into Ph.D programs (mostly because they tend not to focus on research). On the other hand, getting an MS or an MA in general psych, experimental psych, etc. will allow you to get the coursework and the research experience you need to look attractive to Ph.D programs but will not set you up to be a liscensed clinician.

So, like other posters have said, it depends on how much time you are willing to spend in school and how interested you are in psychological theory and research (the kind of things it seems like you enjoyed in your undergraduate classes). I personally obtained an MS first and am now doing well in a Ph.D program.

 

[EY1]

I recommend some soul searching, and a cost/benefit analysis of some facters such as: time you want to spend in school, time you want to spend in preparation, flexibility in your future career, and your financial situation. The doctoral programs takes the longest, and a phd is usually slightly longer than a psyd. For most PhD program you need a good deal of research experience and to narrow your research interests before you apply. While psyd programs "typically" have higher acceptance rates, phd programs are almost always full or partially funded. This is often a huge advagtage. I recommend taking a peak at the psyd versus phd thread.

Money isn't an enormous obstacle, but obviously I'd rather be earning it than spending it. As to the phd vs psyd issue, I will certainly look at the thread, but I'm wondering more from a marketing standpoint, how much of a difference does it make. I live in the NY Metro area and wouldn't want to be at a disadvantage based on that.

As far as acceptance goes, without the psych undergrad, am I at a huge disadvantage? Do I even stand a chance? My undergrad gpa was a 3.7 and change, honors program in college, deans list, etc... so my measurables were there, but obviously on paper, there are much better candidates based on what they've done.

If you're not commited to 5+ six years of school, you should consider a masters program. These program are a great deal shorter though rarely funded. I'm sure you can find much more on this on the psychology masters board.

You're welcome to PM me if you have any more specific questions.

Same question I guess... how much will that limit my options going forward if I only do a 2-2.5 year program. Also, while getting my phd or psyd, are you not working in the field as well? Or is there no time with classes?

 

[EY1]

Hi there EY1. I was in a very similar position to yours a few years ago. I studied theater in college and then, after deciding it wasn't for me, switched to working towards the ultimate goal of a Ph.D in psychology. Keep in mind, then, that I'm biased towards the route I took because it has worked out well for me. That being said, I think you are a strong candidate for obtaining a terminal Masters degree before looking onward toward doctoral programs. Ph.D programs are so competitive that it means there isn't really any room for those who don't have an extensive psych background. Thus, obtaining that background in a Masters program is a good way to go. There are even some funded programs out there that will pay you a stipend while you earn your Masters degree and get the experience you will need to be more competitive.

The professor I've been speaking to received his masters in counseling before later moving onto his phd. I haven't heard back from him yet on the next question of what he did in between that time.

How much schooling is involved if I do both? Wouldn't that mean even more time without working?

The issue does come down to whether you would want to pursue doctoral level work in psychology or whether you would be content practicing as a Masters level clinician. If you attend a program like an MA in clinical psych or an MSW you will eventually be able to work with clients as a case manager or as a therapist, but these programs do not necessarily set you up to gain admissions into Ph.D programs (mostly because they tend not to focus on research). On the other hand, getting an MS or an MA in general psych, experimental psych, etc. will allow you to get the coursework and the research experience you need to look attractive to Ph.D programs but will not set you up to be a liscensed clinician.

going to have to chew on this one a bit more.

So, like other posters have said, it depends on how much time you are willing to spend in school and how interested you are in psychological theory and research (the kind of things it seems like you enjoyed in your undergraduate classes). I personally obtained an MS first and am now doing well in a Ph.D program.

Same question I asked my professor, what did you do in between... if there was an in between? Are you working alongside getting your phd, or is that a full time commitment?

Thanks.

 

[242598]

.
As far as acceptance goes, without the psych undergrad, am I at a huge disadvantage? Do I even stand a chance? My undergrad gpa was a 3.7 and change, honors program in college, deans list, etc... so my measurables were there, but obviously on paper, there are much better candidates based on what they've done.

If you're considering the PhD route, hop on the websites of some universities in your area and see what research assistant positions are available. This is a way to gain research experience and it's a way to see if you like being in a research-oriented environment. I work at a pretty large research center and I've seen people come in who are really gung-ho about applying to a PhD program but then decide to do med school or social work or something totally different like culinary school. For this reason, it's good to get a chance to test the waters before you make a definite decision about the degree you want. I don't know if this is the case for all universities but one awesome thing about the school where I work is that I can take classes for free. This might be a nice option if you're lacking in some psych classes. (I took social psych last fall, as a matter of fact.)

Good luck!

 

[KillerDiller]

How much schooling is involved if I do both? Wouldn't that mean even more time without working?

If you enter a terminal Masters program and then a Ph.D program, you're looking at a minimum of 6-7 years until completion of your degree depending on how many credits transfer, how fast you are at producing research etc.

Honestly, if you decide you definitely want to go for the Ph.D it's going to take about that long no matter which route you take to get there. Spots in Ph.D programs are extemely competitive, so if you don't get your Masters you'd likely have to spend a year or two working in the field as a research assistant anyway. I just suggested the Masters because it would show schools you've gotten plenty of courework in psychology, but working as a research assistant in a productive lab is another popular path.

Now, when you say that it would mean more time without working...well, sort of. If you attend a funded program (Masters or Ph.D) you don't have to worry about working for an income because the school will pay your tuition and give you a stipend to live on. It's not a lot of money, but it's generally enough to pay the bills and in some cases can allow you to live pretty comfortably. Also, you will be working in the field during this time because you will be doing supervised field training. These positions are most often unpaid, but again, you're living off your school's stipend.

Same question I asked my professor, what did you do in between... if there was an in between? Are you working alongside getting your phd, or is that a full time commitment?

Thanks.

There wasn't much of an inbetween. In the second year of your Masters program you can apply to enter Ph.D programs the following year. As it turned out, I took a year to work as a swimming coach, but there was no rhyme or reason to that.

Getting the Ph.D is definitely a full-time committment. I have funding from my school and spend the 60-70 hours a week on research, my practicum, and coursework.