Any experience with federal employment?

[GasOrBust]

Heading into my final year of residency and was browsing USAJOBS.gov recently and saw a posting for a civilian anesthesiologist (GS-15) at a military base. Anyone ever worked in this capacity and have any thoughts? Is it similar to working at a VA hospital? Seems like job security might be one advantage if what I've heard is true: a one-year probationary period then essentially an act of Congress is necessary to get fired.

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[aneftp]

Pay is similar at most federal jobs ($260-300k)

1. Jobs with a 2 week window to apply "openings are fake job openings. They are already taken. But by law they still have to "advertise" the job

2. If it's a true job opening than its usually a crappy VA type of hospital. U essentially are working like a dog for the same pay as another person at a cush VA

Aka Albany NY Veterans Hospital always has job opening. (For a reason). While cush Augusta GA or Orlando VA hardly has openings. (Well orlando had 3 "job openings" with a 6 month hiring window. But it's scam. Cause those "3" job openings are already filled by internal transfers from Miami VA (again harder working VA).

3. 2 year probationary period. Yes hard to get fired after 2 years.

4. Military hospital. Same benefits. Same federal security. Better make sure it's not a contractor W2 job and a real federal job.

Cause I had a couple of friends at Walter reed civilian and they are revolving w2 contractor job (some 1-3 year contracts) but not a REAL federal employee.

And the military docs there scam the systems and take a lot of off days off for themsleves.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Can you elaborate on "working like a dog" at a VA hospital? I've seen Anesthesia at 4 different VAs in my career and I've never seen one even close to Private practice hours or stress.

 

[pgg]

Contract anesthesiologists at military hospitals are typically 1099 and NOT the unfireable GS employees with the usual W-2 benefits you're thinking of.

They make (IMO) good pay for a 7-5 M-F position win no weekends and no call. They do their own cases, sometimes with a resident or SRNA 1:1. They seem happy on the whole - not a lot of turnover. We have a few who've been here 10+ years. That said, I don't know how secure any contractor position with the military is.

 

[deleted171991]

What do you guys know about the West Palm Beach, FL VA?

 

[Consigliere]

What do you guys know about the West Palm Beach, FL VA?

It's warm there.

 

[donaldfaison]

Do these type of federal jobs qualify for PSLF?

 

[aneftp]

Can you elaborate on "working like a dog" at a VA hospital? I've seen Anesthesia at 4 different VAs in my career and I've never seen one even close to Private practice hours or stress.

Blade, why do you think 3 anesthesiologists are transferring from Miami VA to Orlando VA? Cause Orlando VA is much easier to work (aka less work)

It's not the stress. It's that some VA require anesthesiogist to take more calls, work post call the next day. Yes compared to private practice a "hard" VA like Baltimore VA seems like a walk in the park.

But Baltimore VA is less desirable than Wash DC VA. and it's not a matter of location. The Wash DC VA is simply an "easier place" than the Baltomore (thus Baltomore traditionally has had more turnover).

Like the Kaiser system. Why yourself for same pay (relatively to other Kaiser). I won't name exact locations. But certain Kaiser locations out West are better to work at than others.

Again if you compare a hard working VA to private practice. Yes the hard working VA seems like a walk in the park.

But a hard working VA compared to an easy VA for same low pay. What would you take?

Let me give u an example. Right now the Albany VA docs are taking calls and lates essentially q3. That's call, work post call, than late. Than call. Who wants to work there? Granted "late" is relative so it may be 4pm. But other VA let the MDs leave at 2pm. That's a big difference psychologically. Or some Va let their docs start "call" at 12pm and finish up at 5pm (yes a 5 hour call!). Now that's a cush VA.

 

[psychbender]

PGG, not all military contract anesthesiology positions are like that. At Reed, I believe one group held the contract, and that group employed almost all of the contract anesthesiologists. Many of those guys still took call, and sometimes worked the swing shifts, as well. They also were preferentially given OR clinical time, making the active duty do preop clinic, "break" duties, and other crap work. While I am sure that some of the active duty loved it (some definitely worked the system to avoid clinical work), as they had more time off to moonlight elsewhere in DC, my residency classmates that remained there hated it, as their OR time was severely limited.

 

[epidural man]

My two cents...

The civilians that work at my (military) hospital have THE BEST anesthesiology job in town (San Diego)....and most in this town would agree. They are well paid for the area. No call. No weekends. Usually work 4 days a week...sometimes with residents. Some days are long for them, but they get paid while they are here. If we ask/make them stay at the end of the day....they get paid for it. We have to decide if it is worth keeping them (and honestly we try to get the civilians out first) because if we use up their hours, I think they make a ton in overtime.

The rules are very strict with military and contractors...ridiculously strict if you ask me.

It is true, the job isn't protected usually - but it seems that a lot of times, a temp contract can roll into a perm contract, or eventually a GS.

Also, the patient population is pretty great...usually thankful and happy you are helping them. Try to find that in an inner city hospital.

If you have an opportunity to work at a military hospital as a civilian - I totally would try it.

 

[deleted162650]

My two cents...

The civilians that work at my (military) hospital have THE BEST anesthesiology job in town (San Diego)....and most in this town would agree. They are well paid for the area. No call. No weekends. Usually work 4 days a week...sometimes with residents. Some days are long for them, but they get paid while they are here. If we ask/make them stay at the end of the day....they get paid for it. We have to decide if it is worth keeping them (and honestly we try to get the civilians out first) because if we use up their hours, I think they make a ton in overtime.

The rules are very strict with military and contractors...ridiculously strict if you ask me.

It is true, the job isn't protected usually - but it seems that a lot of times, a temp contract can roll into a perm contract, or eventually a GS.

Also, the patient population is pretty great...usually thankful and happy you are helping them. Try to find that in an inner city hospital.

If you have an opportunity to work at a military hospital as a civilian - I totally would try it.

Ya, but let's not forget the Balboa boys are retired Captains (or best buds w/ said retired Captains). Methinks the jobs posted on public websites for average joes are probably not quite as cush.

 

[pgg]

PGG, not all military contract anesthesiology positions are like that. At Reed, I believe one group held the contract, and that group employed almost all of the contract anesthesiologists. Many of those guys still took call, and sometimes worked the swing shifts, as well. They also were preferentially given OR clinical time, making the active duty do preop clinic, "break" duties, and other crap work. While I am sure that some of the active duty loved it (some definitely worked the system to avoid clinical work), as they had more time off to moonlight elsewhere in DC, my residency classmates that remained there hated it, as their OR time was severely limited.

We've tried to move away from the preference for OR time. The preop clinic is staffed about 80% of the time by contractors, and they're in the break rotation more often now. They cover OB, pain service. They did the ASC monkey-up-front job when we still had an ASC (we folded it into the main OR for the summer while we're short staffed). A couple do a LOT of teaching work and I'd like to see them get some admin time for that.

For a while there was a lot of frustration from the active duty staff that they weren't getting as much clinical time because the contractors had to be utilized first.

 

[Ipassgas]

Aka Albany NY Veterans Hospital always has job opening. (For a reason). While cush Augusta GA or Orlando VA hardly has openings.

So I goofed when I didn't take a job at the. Augusta VA? Oh, well. Life rolls on.

 

[Crabbygas]

My impression is that many if not most jobs on usajobs are bogus. Too bad it shouldn't be that way. There is a huge difference between a GS job and a contractor job(as well as between a personal services contract and non personal services contract). In my experience the pay options for both GS and Nonpsc contract are very wide and often not well known even to the organization looking to hire. PScjobs tend to have straight forward options. Most often you will end up being an employee of some minority small business. The jobs can be ok. But beware. If your contract says you have to take any employment complaints to tribal court in Choctaw Oklahoma you have pretty much zero recourse if you get screwed which you might be any time it suits your bosses.

 

[Ronin2258]

Got lucky here. USAJobs did good with me. I have a GS-15 post.

I was looking for two options:
1. Close to my friends in the Midwest.
2. Someplace warm during the winter.

Option 2 was the one that was open to me, in SoCal. My goal was "Warm my heart with friends, or warm my cold bones in winter."

Good caseload, do everything but hearts (heads are being brought into the hospital as soon as nursing in the ICU gets their act together.) I have academics in the form of residents to train, which keeps me on top of things. I keep myself as fast as the private practice groups I trained with to keep myself up to speed, and keep things moving in the OR.

The lifestyle is good. 4 days x 10 hours, with one Saturday 24 hour shift about once every 6 weeks. We use a night float system which I'm on right now, which has a 24-hour Sunday, and 5pm to 7am until the following Friday night. This happens 3-4 times a year. Intermittent backup for the night float for extra hands off and on again, but have yet to be needed.

I know I am below average in pay scale for the area. But I have simple tastes, and no one to suck the pay/life out of me. Since I don't have anyone else but me to take care of, I have been saving and paying off debt as fast as I can. Cost of living in the area is high due to location, but tolerable.

When I get permanent status, my prior military service will allow me to play catch up in the federal retirement plan. If I chose that option, I will have 20 years for retirement 11 years from now.

What will get me to look elsewhere? I always like options, so there are a few things that will get me to leave:
-Finding work that fits my health concerns
-Finding work near my two circle of friends that won't kill me due to health issues
-Better location in the warm areas (costal or islands)
-Pay and benefits that are better for similar hours.

 

[Planktonmd]

What will get me to look elsewhere? I always like options, so there are a few things that will get me to leave:
-Finding work that fits my health concerns
-Finding work near my two circle of friends that won't kill me due to health issues
-Better location in the warm areas (costal or islands)
-Pay and benefits that are better for similar hours.

And you probably will not find anything remotely close to these wishes that's not a federal job.

 

[deleted171991]

You can also add: being able to focus on the patient, not on production.

 

[deleted162650]

You can also add: being able to focus on the patient, not on production.

That's right. Instead of production you get to focus on forms and protocols. Remember, no one that works for the government is allowed to think.

 

[sethco]

When I get permanent status, my prior military service will allow me to play catch up in the federal retirement plan. If I chose that option, I will have 20 years for retirement 11 years from now.

Out of curiosity, how does this work with a GS position with former military? I have 4 years each of active and reserve duty

 

[Planktonmd]

That's right. Instead of production you get to focus on forms and protocols. Remember, no one that works for the government is allowed to think.

Forms and protocols are every where, not only in the federal system.

 

[deleted162650]

Forms and protocols are every where, not only in the federal system.

Very true. But they've raised it to an art form.

 

[Ronin2258]

And you probably will not find anything remotely close to these wishes that's not a federal job.

Likely not. But as Mr. Spock said, "There are always possibilities."

Out of curiosity, how does this work with a GS position with former military? I have 4 years each of active and reserve duty

From what I understand, it takes paperwork (surprise, surprise,) but you are able bring AD time over to count towards federal retirement. I am not sure about reserve duty, however.

 

[norwood]

A few of you have commented on anesthesiologists transferring from one VA to another. Can you elaborate on that? Does being employed at one VA move you to the head of the line at a different one if you decide to move? Or does any given VA just see it as a way to hire people who are already familiar with the VA way of doing things?

 

[psychbender]

It's easier for the VA to do a lateral transfer than hire a new person.

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[BLADEMDA]

I'm thinking about Federal employment in just a few years. Any advice for landing a good gig at the VA? I'd like to stay in the Southeast and am open to any Federal job at a military base or VA hospital. I don't mind taking call on weekends as long as the call typically means 4-5 hours of O.R. work. Of course, I could find a surgi-center gig or just go part-time but Federal employment is my first choice. Can i work past age 65 at the VA? Any mandatory retirement age?

I doubt that my plan would include the Albany VA then a transfer in 1-2 years; I would rather not go that approach.

If the Independent CRNA bill becomes law there may not be any VA jobs available for Anesthesiologists for a long time.

 

[GasOrBust]

I'm thinking about Federal employment in just a few years. Any advice for landing a good gig at the VA? I'd like to stay in the Southeast and am open to any Federal job at a military base or VA hospital. I don't mind taking call on weekends as long as the call typically means 4-5 hours of O.R. work. Of course, I could find a surgi-center gig or just go part-time but Federal employment is my first choice. Can i work past age 65 at the VA? Any mandatory retirement age?

I doubt that my plan would include the Albany VA then a transfer in 1-2 years; I would rather not go that approach.

If the Independent CRNA bill becomes law there may not be any VA jobs available for Anesthesiologists for a long time.

We have several anesthesiologists over 65 where I train. Some are talking about retirement soon, and it doesn't sound like it's mandatory.