Any of you have people fired for not following COVID protocol?

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Dred Pirate

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I saw a rant on facebook on one of the pharmacy pages that talked about a hospital pharmacist not following protocol, not wearing mask, coming to work with a fever- and low and behold he got covid. I am curious how many people have seen people let go due to similar issues?

I know of one person who did, came to work sick, lied about travel, and didn't follow protocol of only using one computer for their shift.

I have a feeling canning one person would get a department in line.

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Yes, the Civil Service has officially suspended and letter of reprimanded health care workers who infected people in March and April. What you wrote is an easy termination offense to sustain in CA if you can prove the "lied about travel" part.
 
Yes, the Civil Service has officially suspended and letter of reprimanded health care workers who infected people in March and April. What you wrote is an easy termination offense to sustain in CA if you can prove the "lied about travel" part.
did they actually fire people thou?
 
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did they actually fire people thou?

You can't (practically) fire anyone in the Civil Service. What you can do is put them in the worst possible jobs and rank demote them. There were demotions from 14 and 13 to 12 which is a $40k+ paycut. That was sufficient to get people on message.
 
You can't (practically) fire anyone in the Civil Service. What you can do is put them in the worst possible jobs and rank demote them. There were demotions from 14 and 13 to 12 which is a $40k+ paycut. That was sufficient to get people on message.
gotcha - not familiar with the civil service. Our hospital is basically begging us to tell on our coworkers. I do have an issue with that, but I also get pissed off when I see people flaunt the protocols, and then wonder why their department is short staffed because so many people are out sick
 
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I understand. A quiet report to Infection Control will go a long way in CA. Just saying. It's not an HR issue, it's a public health one. If IC wants to make it an HR issue, that's their prerogative and they'll have evidence to submit with it. You can address your concern but not be snitching.

That's the way I handled it with my staff who got sick. They either had to give me their contact tracing person for the state who all they needed to file was whether my staff member was cooperative or not (they to a person were all cooperative and candid), or they got VA's version of the Medical Inspector to do it for them. I had preannounced the policy in writing to everyone and said that the policy would apply to me too. I am happy that my people are responsible, all of it were from things that were ADL's or their children or spouse and not stupid things like drinking in a piano bar (someone of the Chief Consultant rank literally went to a Salt Lake City piano bar which if you think about how dumb that is, he was asking for it).
 
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Yes, I know of a pharmacist who was fired for traveling out of state and lying about it and returning without completing company (and state) mandated self isolation.
 
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Yes, I know of a pharmacist who was fired for traveling out of state and lying about it and returning without completing company (and state) mandated self isolation.

yikes honestly. that's f'd up.

how does your company know you're traveling? did he share a bunch of stuff on social media? like tell us more. lol
 
yikes honestly. that's f'd up.

how does your company know you're traveling? did he share a bunch of stuff on social media? like tell us more. lol
Hmm now I can't remember if she directly told one of the techs or if it was through social media. But either way, her staff found out that she was in Florida and it didn't take long for word to reach her DM.
 
Hmm now I can't remember if she directly told one of the techs or if it was through social media. But either way, her staff found out that she was in Florida and it didn't take long for word to reach her DM.

Good for the company.

I haven’t been more than 30 miles out of the city this year. I’ve canceled multiple trips - some early, some that were to “safe” places but our numbers were going up so I did the right thing.
 
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Mostly just through quasi-public shaming. Can’t really fire essential ICU workers in a pandemic, plus, no one’s been blatant about not wearing masks and stuff.

But I guarantee you TONS of people are traveling in their off time. Beaches of Mexico are a quick flight away and people have tons of money and tons of deferred vacation time to burn. Nevada is a quick 3hr drive and stuff is mostly open. Hawaii is also a quick flight & COVID test away (for now).

My IG feed is ridiculous.
 
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Are they traveling even after the stay at home order / 14-day “advisory”?

I am afraid to even drive far out of town right now. With hospitals being overwhelmed you would be SOL if you get into a serious car accident.

ICU doctors and nurses are probably seen as royalty now. Pharmacists overall are a dime a dozen and can easily be replaced, seemingly including PGY1s.

Not our clin specs, we have such a small # of each, we’d have difficulty backfilling crit care and oncology. Take that back, we can backfill...it won’t be pretty.

The issue here is that, outside of work, my workplace is merely asking (not demanding as a condition of employment) compliance with stay-at-home orders. I’m usually the resident expert at labor law here, but I just don’t know to what extent an employer can dictate what an employee does or doesn’t do off the company clock in CA. AFAIK, that time is untouchable.

Further, the stay at home orders are not enforced at all, and many are recommendations. There is no legal impediment to me taking time off of work, flying to Mexico for a week, and coming back to work. Law enforcement came out early and said zero resources will be used to enforce here.

My workplace has asked for travel history for those who have left the state/country, and have asked people to self-quarantine...but I have not heard of conflicts as most people are more than happy to take extra time off.

What really irks me is seeing my healthcare friends (at all different employers) straight up having mask-free/distance-free get togethers with obviously different households mixing.

I legit had someone post an IG story with everyone wearing masks in front of a Christmas tree, which was then followed by a video at that same party by someone else of everyone hanging out like there is no pandemic.

Denial and fatigue is real, and it’s not just uneducated virus-deniers, either. This vaccine can’t come soon enough.
 
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Our pharmacists have been super well behaved in that regard.

I had to explain to an ED Med rec tech that it doesn’t matter if she’s only seen the same 6 friends since March, she’s around covid+ patients every day and she’s the issue in her friend group.

RNs and medical residents have been hit or miss. I get it, as soon as I had confirmation of my antibodies I was ready to go on a trip. But I didn’t. Maybe if I were 26 I would’ve made worse decisions.

But friends in parts of the country that weren’t hit hard initially have been the absolute worst. It’s infuriating and frustrating to see how different parts of the country (and other um persuasions) have interpreted the scenario.
 
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On the upside. Instead of traveling this year I will pay off my refinanced student loans. After finishing off my credit card debt earlier this year.
 
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What really irks me is seeing my healthcare friends (at all different employers) straight up having mask-free/distance-free get togethers with obviously different households mixing.

I legit had someone post an IG story with everyone wearing masks in front of a Christmas tree, which was then followed by a video at that same party by someone else of everyone hanging out like there is no pandemic.

Denial and fatigue is real, and it’s not just uneducated virus-deniers, either. This vaccine can’t come soon enough.
I could have written this post. I stopped checking social media. It’s just too frustrating to see people who know better influence the spread.
 
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I could have written this post. I stopped checking social media. It’s just too frustrating to see people who know better influence the spread.
one of my ED Rn's just got married - they had 250 people at their wedding. Their response is that they can do what they want, but then they turned around and asked me about the vaccine and that they don't want their grandma to get sick so they will do what they can. hypocrit anyone?
 
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Yes, I know of a pharmacist who was fired for traveling out of state and lying about it and returning without completing company (and state) mandated self isolation.

Good for the company.

I haven’t been more than 30 miles out of the city this year. I’ve canceled multiple trips - some early, some that were to “safe” places but our numbers were going up so I did the right thing.

It's a little bit difficult for me to relate since I'm not in a "mandatory travel quarantine state", but do you really think someone deserves to lose their job and possibly career over this?

Sometimes I think our Covid shaming has gotten a little out of hand. There are plenty of responsible ways to travel and vacation during a pandemic (drive, isolate with your spouse). It's a bit presumptuous assuming someone is travelling in the most dangerous way possible and infecting the most vulnerable with Covid at every turn. Honestly even air travel hasn't been shown to be a significant contributor.

I know I'm risking a public beating for this, but it's got to be said. Blaming people for getting Covid just doesn't sit well with me. It's a weird precedent for an infectious disease.
 
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It's a little bit difficult for me to relate since I'm not in a "mandatory travel quarantine state", but do you really think someone deserves to lose their job and possibly career over this?

Sometimes I think our Covid shaming has gotten a little out of hand. There are plenty of responsible ways to travel and vacation during a pandemic (drive, isolate with your spouse). It's a bit presumptuous assuming someone is travelling in the most dangerous way possible and infecting the most vulnerable with Covid at every turn. Honestly even air travel hasn't been shown to be a significant contributor.

I know I'm risking a public beating for this, but it's got to be said. Blaming people for getting Covid just doesn't sit well with me. It's a weird precedent for an infectious disease.
She knowingly violated state law and company policy so she does not get much sympathy from me. She could have still traveled, disclosed the travel and followed our isolation procedures.
 
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My mom's boss knowingly had a wedding for her relative, came to work with symptoms, didn't wear a mask and infected her employees, which resulted in my mom, brother and aunt getting infected.

So yes, I am seriously hoping that people get fired for being selfish because personally I believe people need to be let go.
 
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It's a little bit difficult for me to relate since I'm not in a "mandatory travel quarantine state", but do you really think someone deserves to lose their job and possibly career over this?

Sometimes I think our Covid shaming has gotten a little out of hand. There are plenty of responsible ways to travel and vacation during a pandemic (drive, isolate with your spouse). It's a bit presumptuous assuming someone is travelling in the most dangerous way possible and infecting the most vulnerable with Covid at every turn. Honestly even air travel hasn't been shown to be a significant contributor.

I know I'm risking a public beating for this, but it's got to be said. Blaming people for getting Covid just doesn't sit well with me. It's a weird precedent for an infectious disease.


Yeah, it's a Title 42 offense and there's language in there and in Title 10 that makes it a federal offense to do so within a CMS overseen institutional facility. It's not shaming, it's lack of hygiene. It's your own fault if you infect others in a medical setting if you have it yourself. If you get it, the least you can do is not give it to others. If Infection Control and Epidemiology establishes a causal link in a nosocomial situation, it should be hard discipline in the same respect that not washing your hands and causing an infection is a major misadventure.

If the institution fails to work Infection Control, they should be disciplined or forced to close as well. I think that's actually going to be the outcome in the more egregious nursing home cases and a couple of hospitals in FL where there was USPHS and DoD takeover of those facilities.
 
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Our pharmacists have been super well behaved in that regard.

I had to explain to an ED Med rec tech that it doesn’t matter if she’s only seen the same 6 friends since March, she’s around covid+ patients every day and she’s the issue in her friend group.

RNs and medical residents have been hit or miss. I get it, as soon as I had confirmation of my antibodies I was ready to go on a trip. But I didn’t. Maybe if I were 26 I would’ve made worse decisions.

But friends in parts of the country that weren’t hit hard initially have been the absolute worst. It’s infuriating and frustrating to see how different parts of the country (and other um persuasions) have interpreted the scenario.

Oh, if I were 26, I would be taking advantage of these rock bottom fares and traveling wherever I'm allowed to enter, that's for sure. It pained me to cancel everything that I had planned this year + early next year. But, ya know, responsible adult... yah yah yah.


On the upside. Instead of traveling this year I will pay off my refinanced student loans. After finishing off my credit card debt earlier this year.

My new TV arrives today, lol. I spent way too much this pandemic. On the upside, I'm also extremely proficient in fixing and cleaning things now, because the concerns over infection have prompted me to avoid calling service professionals unless it's absolutely necessary. I still won't touch anything beyond my subpanel/main panel for electricity, though (but I'll gladly work on an outlet/light switch).

I re-cabled my garage door and managed to get it back on track the other day (it nearly fell on me as it contorted overhead). I probably should have called a professional, but hey... it's fixed!


I could have written this post. I stopped checking social media. It’s just too frustrating to see people who know better influence the spread.
I just roll my eyes... like, I don't know what's worse, people who just don't give a crap and do whatever with no apologies, or those who claim to be having a safe/distanced party of 25 people inside a house.


one of my ED Rn's just got married - they had 250 people at their wedding. Their response is that they can do what they want, but then they turned around and asked me about the vaccine and that they don't want their grandma to get sick so they will do what they can. hypocrit anyone?

I get it, people don't like to be told no. There's some level of cognitive dissonance and denial that I'm actually familiar with. It's like moving here to earthquake country... you kind of have to put the idea that you could be crushed to death in your home, office, or car out of your mind, otherwise you wouldn't be able to function.

Okay, not exactly the same as the covid superspreading wedding, but I've always wondered what rationalization goes on in peoples' heads when they do stuff like that.

It's a little bit difficult for me to relate since I'm not in a "mandatory travel quarantine state", but do you really think someone deserves to lose their job and possibly career over this?

Sometimes I think our Covid shaming has gotten a little out of hand. There are plenty of responsible ways to travel and vacation during a pandemic (drive, isolate with your spouse). It's a bit presumptuous assuming someone is travelling in the most dangerous way possible and infecting the most vulnerable with Covid at every turn. Honestly even air travel hasn't been shown to be a significant contributor.

I know I'm risking a public beating for this, but it's got to be said. Blaming people for getting Covid just doesn't sit well with me. It's a weird precedent for an infectious disease.

Someone replied already, but it bears repeating.... if you knowingly violate local health orders that apply to you and then lie to your employer about it, yeah you deserve to be fired.

We have employees that knowingly violate the orders by having these small/medium sized parties, and they've been owning up to it after calling out of work and subsequently testing positive for COVID. They should NOT be fired, and for reasons of privacy, shouldn't be called out.

But lying to your employer is a whole 'nother thing. It's like going to a country where TB is endemic, getting night sweats on your return, and lying about it. I agree, though, that an employer can't/shouldn't ding you for that specific activity in your off-time.
 
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Someone replied already, but it bears repeating.... if you knowingly violate local health orders that apply to you and then lie to your employer about it, yeah you deserve to be fired.

We have employees that knowingly violate the orders by having these small/medium sized parties, and they've been owning up to it after calling out of work and subsequently testing positive for COVID. They should NOT be fired, and for reasons of privacy, shouldn't be called out.

But lying to your employer is a whole 'nother thing. It's like going to a country where TB is endemic, getting night sweats on your return, and lying about it. I agree, though, that an employer can't/shouldn't ding you for that specific activity in your off-time.
Yes, I agree completely with the bolded statements. The original post I quoted was regarding someone who did not follow isolation/travel disclosure protocols, not someone who was actually symptomatic. I know the distinction doesn't necessarily matter with CoVID, but I think the intent to harm others is different.
 
Getting rid of all social media (with the exception of this and reddit, if you want to count those) was one of my better life decisions so far.

Word, I've been a lot happier since I got banned from Reddit.

Why did I get banned? Some dude was on there bragging about getting a pharmacist fired for not filling narcotics.

My reply was that he was a fkin junkie and that I hoped he got shot by cops. Apparently, wishing death gets you banned nowadays.
 
Word, I've been a lot happier since I got banned from Reddit.

Why did I get banned? Some dude was on there bragging about getting a pharmacist fired for not filling narcotics.

My reply was that he was a fkin junkie and that I hoped he got shot by cops. Apparently, wishing death gets you banned nowadays.

i need back story, got be pretty hard to get fired for not filling narc
 
These junkies are *****s. No one gets fired specifically for not filling narcs once in a while, especially narcs for junkies.
 
Mostly just through quasi-public shaming. Can’t really fire essential ICU workers in a pandemic, plus, no one’s been blatant about not wearing masks and stuff.

But I guarantee you TONS of people are traveling in their off time. Beaches of Mexico are a quick flight away and people have tons of money and tons of deferred vacation time to burn. Nevada is a quick 3hr drive and stuff is mostly open. Hawaii is also a quick flight & COVID test away (for now).

My IG feed is ridiculous.

Yup I see lots of people traveling now, having weddings inside churches, taking group photos with their masks pulled down to their chins. Wtf is the point of having a mask if you're gonna take photos with your exposed mouths and noses inches apart?
 
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We've had the same thoughts of reprimands from people not following rules, but I haven't seen anyone get in actual trouble. Pretty much everyone follows rules while at work, or at least goes through the motions (temp checks are often a joke, with the checker just waving the wand and not really paying attention to the temp.) Gatherings over 10 are banned in IL, but I suspect many people ignored that over Thanksgiving (although nobody openly bragged about it.) There were a few employees who fought to get a "medical exemption" from wearing masks at work, but they were all ultimately denied. I'm sure those people never wear masks outside of work, even though it's required by IL regulation. People at work have gotten COVID, but it's not clear if they caught it at work or outside of work (probably cases of both.)
 
Yup I see lots of people traveling now, having weddings inside churches, taking group photos with their masks pulled down to their chins. Wtf is the point of having a mask if you're gonna take photos with your exposed mouths and noses inches apart?

I'm sure they would all claim they were holding their breath for the picture. :rolleyes:
 
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i need back story, got be pretty hard to get fired for not filling narc

I don't think the pharmacist was actually fired. The junkie OP claimed that he called the DM to report rude pharmacist refusing to fill narcs and the DM apparently told them he'd take care of it and the next week the pharmacist wasn't there.

Most likely, the pharmacist just had a day off.
 
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