Anybody else fear their Pre Health Committee will screw them over?

[mwsapphire]

Hi everyone,

Anybody here, who is getting a committee letter, worry about it? Like, maybe you don't know everyone on the committee, or that one prof whose class you didn't do well in is on the committee, and you're afraid their recommendation will be lukewarm and it'll hurt your application? I also have a fear that while my LOR writers are people who know me well/ like me/have good things to say about me, that they may write lukewarm letters or mention "that-one-time-I-messed-up" or something.
Anybody have this fear? My profs seem to like me and I don't think they would do that, but I just...idk. It's one of those things that's mentioned when someone doesn't' get any acceptances/II's and it's like, you can't know beforehand.
I'm not losing sleep over or anything, just something that's floating in my mind.

-mwsapphire

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[AnMDtoB]

I mean it's possible, but if you've followed all of their guidelines, don't have any IAs, & haven't been rude to them then you should be fine.

Remember, it's in the committee's best interest to get as many students into graduate programs as possible because it helps their college's reputation.

 

[gyngyn]

Committee letters are not known for harming their candidates.

 

[mwsapphire]

I mean it's possible, but if you've followed all of their guidelines, don't have any IAs, & haven't been rude to them then you should be fine.

Remember, it's in the committee's best interest to get as many students into graduate programs as possible because it helps their college's reputation.

That's a tricky one. My advisor thinks my grades are fine, but she thinks being complete by Labor Day isn't early enough for MD or DO , and she thought I needed a letter from the doctor I shadowed but I didn't get it bc she is a family friend ( that was just a recommendation though). Beyond that she seems fine with me, I"m always polite, and I have followed the real rules they laid down.

 

[907914]

Committee letters are not known for harming their candidates.

I feel like committee letters would tend to be more generic than individual letters...? Is that accurate?

 

[AnMDtoB]

That's a tricky one. My advisor thinks my grades are fine, but she thinks being complete by Labor Day isn't early enough for MD or DO , and she thought I needed a letter from the doctor I shadowed but I didn't get it bc she is a family friend ( that was just a recommendation though). Beyond that she seems fine with me, I"m always polite, and I have followed the real rules they laid down.

Sorry I was speaking from my own experience there -

at my undergrad the committee office has a very structured series of steps UGs need to complete by a deadline (strongly recommended) & I meant completing them correctly, without excessive assistance, and in a timely manner

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

I feel like committee letters would tend to be more generic than individual letters...? Is that accurate?

At least at my school, the committee letter was a synthesis of your individual letters, so it basically just compiled all the things other people said about you into one letter (including "quoting liberally or in full" from the individual letters). So for those types of committee letters, it shouldn't be more generic.

that one prof whose class you didn't do well in is on the committee, and you're afraid their recommendation will be lukewarm and it'll hurt your application?

The professor who compiled my committee letter taught the class I did the worst in in my entire college career (gotta love orgo II). I literally cried in her office after failing an exam. (One of my mentors was actually on the committee, but since he'd written one of my individual letters, it didn't seem appropriate to have him write it.) To be fair, my school's committee seems to have been very supportive compared to some of the (possibly exaggerated) stories of cruel committees I've heard about here, but I was never once worried about being sabotaged by this letter. And clearly everything worked out fine. It really is in their best interest to get students into med school.

 

[gyngyn]

I feel like committee letters would tend to be more generic than individual letters...? Is that accurate?

Nope. They are often some of the best available letters.

 

[907914]

Nope. They are often some of the best available letters.

Interesting. I guess my idea of what a committee letter is is misconstrued. Thanks for the correction!

 

[AegonTargaryenVI]

At my school at least, the committee letter sort of weaves a recommendation after an advisor goes over your "pseudo" application and asks you about your experiences and etc during an advising meeting. Echoing what @AnMDtoB said, its in their best interests to paint you in the most positive light to increase the school's reputation and to show that the pre-health committee/advising office is competent.

 

[Kardio]

Hi everyone,

Anybody here, who is getting a committee letter, worry about it? Like, maybe you don't know everyone on the committee, or that one prof whose class you didn't do well in is on the committee, and you're afraid their recommendation will be lukewarm and it'll hurt your application? I also have a fear that while my LOR writers are people who know me well/ like me/have good things to say about me, that they may write lukewarm letters or mention "that-one-time-I-messed-up" or something.
Anybody have this fear? My profs seem to like me and I don't think they would do that, but I just...idk. It's one of those things that's mentioned when someone doesn't' get any acceptances/II's and it's like, you can't know beforehand.
I'm not losing sleep over or anything, just something that's floating in my mind.

-mwsapphire

I stole these from one SDN user because I figured you need them more

 

[907914]

I stole these from one SDN user

Don't take drugs that aren't your own/don't share drugs. That is felony drug trafficking. Only Goro can Xanax.

 

[Kardio]

Don't take drugs that aren't your own/don't share drugs. That is felony drug trafficking. Only Goro can Xanax.

I'm just holding them for a friend, I swear

 

[MyOdyssey]

Committee letters are not known for harming their candidates.

My understanding is that committee letters typically or at least sometimes "rank" applicants from that school or place them in tiers.

In such a scenario, how is it possible that at least some candidates aren't harmed? Being placed in a low tier vis-à-vis other applicants from the same school can only hurt, not help.

I understand that med school ad coms will at least implicitly rank candidates from the same school in any given cycle but I'd prefer that they rank rather than outsourcing the ranking to a third party.

There are premeds at my undergrad who made it a point to really network with the premed office. I never did that and I don't think that speaks to my potential as a doctor.

 

[Goro]

Hi everyone,

Anybody here, who is getting a committee letter, worry about it? Like, maybe you don't know everyone on the committee, or that one prof whose class you didn't do well in is on the committee, and you're afraid their recommendation will be lukewarm and it'll hurt your application? I also have a fear that while my LOR writers are people who know me well/ like me/have good things to say about me, that they may write lukewarm letters or mention "that-one-time-I-messed-up" or something.
Anybody have this fear? My profs seem to like me and I don't think they would do that, but I just...idk. It's one of those things that's mentioned when someone doesn't' get any acceptances/II's and it's like, you can't know beforehand.
I'm not losing sleep over or anything, just something that's floating in my mind.

-mwsapphire

One thing I have learned form reading Committee LORs is that they go overboard with praise, even for people who don't deserve it.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

YMMV. My committee letter actually wasn't the hottest, yet my LoRs were glowing; in general, most recommend candidates to the program he/she is applying to.

Mine wasn't the best because my writer's policy is "50/50: 50% good, 50% bad." Thankfully, the individual letters attached to the committee letter spoke very highly of me, so it wasn't that much negativity.

 

[LizzyM]

Committee letters tend to have idiosyncratic templates. Each school's template is different (that's the idiosyncratic part) but within a school, every letter has the same format which makes it very easy to skim and get what you need. Some schools will go into detail about the difference between Physics 101/102 and 120/121 and why we should be impressed that you took the more challenging sequence. Some will break into sections categorizing students as good/better/best in academics, community service, scholarly activity & research, and clinical exposure. A few schools will provide class rank which puts GPA into context (if a 3.8 puts you at 100 from the top of 3,000 students its a bit different than ranking 400th of 800 with the same GPA.) There are schools that will categorize you overall and even state how many applicants fell into each category. On the other hands, some schools use descriptors that sound really good but when you eventually figure out the codes, you realize that "exceptional" is middle of the pack because there is also "quite exceptional", "exceedingly exceptional" and "exceptionally exceptional". Those might not be the exact phrases but you catch my drift.

The school wants to paint its students in a good light while still being credible when it comes to "recommending" students who are less than exceptionally exceptional.

 

[Heliobacter]

I feel like they have to be helpful, because with what little actual advising we get, more than 90% of applicants from my school get into at least one MD/DO program. We don't really have strict internal screening for the committee letter either, and they don't really help with school selection either.

And at least, I know they help to contextualize our academic experiences, given that my school does many things differently.

 

[Rachapkis]

LORs and committee letters are difficult because you can't see them and they are outside of your control. All that you can do is choose your recommenders wisely, give them what they need to write and excellent recommendation (e.g., CV and AMCAS application), and let the chips fall where they may. Try not to worry, profs and committees are not out to get students.

 

[Cornfed101]

Committee letters tend to have idiosyncratic templates. Each school's template is different (that's the idiosyncratic part) but within a school, every letter has the same format which makes it very easy to skim and get what you need. Some schools will go into detail about the difference between Physics 101/102 and 120/121 and why we should be impressed that you took the more challenging sequence. Some will break into sections categorizing students as good/better/best in academics, community service, scholarly activity & research, and clinical exposure. A few schools will provide class rank which puts GPA into context (if a 3.8 puts you at 100 from the top of 3,000 students its a bit different than ranking 400th of 800 with the same GPA.) There are schools that will categorize you overall and even state how many applicants fell into each category. On the other hands, some schools use descriptors that sound really good but when you eventually figure out the codes, you realize that "exceptional" is middle of the pack because there is also "quite exceptional", "exceedingly exceptional" and "exceptionally exceptional". Those might not be the exact phrases but you catch my drift.

The school wants to paint its students in a good light while still being credible when it comes to "recommending" students who are less than exceptionally exceptional.

I'll have to remember this if I ever write LORs someday. "This student was especially exceedingly exceptionally exceptional"

 

[Moko]

My understanding is that committee letters typically or at least sometimes "rank" applicants from that school or place them in tiers. In such a scenario, how is it possible that at least some candidates aren't harmed? Being placed in a low tier vis-à-vis other applicants from the same school can only hurt, not help.

We can usually intuit based on someone's GPA, MCAT, ECs where someone would fall relative to other applicants from the same institution. For those in the bottom 1/4-1/2 of the class, the committee letter works to convince people that they would still make wonderful doctors. So even in the worst case scenario, the effect of the committee letter is neutral for most applicants. Harmful letters are uncommon as the letter committees want their students to do well, as others have mentioned.

 

[Moko]

Many UG prehealth committee's will not write a letter for applicants that do not meet at least some basic standards.

Yes that's correct! Meant to say bottom 1/4-1/2 of those who qualify for the letter*.

 

[Jeremy Bearimy]

I'm not worried that my committee letter will be outright bad, just lukewarm. My UG school's system is weird. It's not a composite letter or letter packet, just written by the committee who doesn't know much about me personally, so I don't know what they could possibly rave about. On the other hand, my individual letters are much more personal and strong, but some schools don't want any/many additional letters if you have a committee letter.

Just praying that some adcom has a little extra time on their hands (lol) and decides to read my additional letters.

 

[gyngyn]

My understanding is that committee letters typically or at least sometimes "rank" applicants from that school or place them in tiers.

In such a scenario, how is it possible that at least some candidates aren't harmed? Being placed in a low tier vis-à-vis other applicants from the same school can only hurt, not help.

I understand that med school ad coms will at least implicitly rank candidates from the same school in any given cycle but I'd prefer that they rank rather than outsourcing the ranking to a third party.

There are premeds at my undergrad who made it a point to really network with the premed office. I never did that and I don't think that speaks to my potential as a doctor.

If they rank them it must be some strange system in which everyone is the best.
We do not rank applicants from the same school against each other.

 

[gyngyn]

Just praying that some adcom has a little extra time on their hands (lol) and decides to read my additional letters.

You sent letters in addition to your committee letter?

 

[LizzyM]

Many schools collect the letters, use them as fodder for the committee letter, and append them to the committee letter. IIRC all of the Ivys work this way.

 

[CJhooper123]

Many UG prehealth committee's will not write a letter for applicants that do not meet at least some basic standards.

Aka 3.8+ GPA, 510+ MCAT, 200+ volunteer hours, clinical experience, and 5 faculty LOR (2 have to be from non-science professors).

It’s a shame that undergrad schools aren’t more open about their pre-health committee-writing policies with prospective high school students and parents. My undergrad boasts a 85%+ acceptance rate for those who actually RECEIVE a committee letter. The school consistently fails to acknowledge that it is very challenging to earn that letter.

I get that earning a med school acceptance is extremely challenging and statistically, you should expect to be rejected... I just find it displeasing that undergrad schools take advantage of 17 y/o’s trying to pick the right undergrad.

 

[Moko]

I just find it displeasing that undergrad schools take advantage of 17 y/o’s trying to pick the right undergrad.

This seems like one of the few instances where college actually does help prepare their students for life

 

[CJhooper123]

This seems like one of the few instances where college actually does help prepare their students for life

A potentially costly lesson haha.

It’s not easy for a 17 y/o, who aspires to become a physician, to turn down an expensive undergrad school that pumps 85% of their graduates into medical school when in reality... attending a state school would have yielded the same result. Name recognition in med school applications is helpful... but not the end all/be all.

Sure it falls on the shortcoming of the 17 y/o for not knowing ALL the facts about the undergrad and medical school application process... but making that decision as a 17 y/o could put you $150k in debt vs. minimal debt.

 

[LizzyM]

A potentially costly lesson haha.

It’s not easy for a 17 y/o, who aspires to become a physician, to turn down an expensive undergrad school that pumps 85% of their graduates into medical school when in reality... attending a state school would have yielded the same result. Name recognition in med school applications is helpful... but not the end all/be all.

Sure it falls on the shortcoming of the 17 y/o for not knowing ALL the facts about the undergrad and medical school application process... but making that decision as a 17 y/o could put you $150k in debt vs. minimal debt.

That is why it is important to be specific when asking about outcomes. The question a 17 year old should be asking is, of the incoming freshman who declare as "pre-med" what proportion are in medical school 5 years after matriculating to college? I'd be impressed by any school that had a proportion higher than 20%. But kids and parents don't want to hear that and if they did hear it, they would, undoubtedly believe that they can defy the odds.

How does your UG committee get the information to write the letter?

 

[Jeremy Bearimy]

You sent letters in addition to your committee letter?

This now feels like a stupid move, but yes... For example, from my research PI and coach. I understand that they won't necessarily be read, but if they are, I think they are enthusiastic and provide a better picture of me as an applicant and person. My UG pre-health department recommends sending them in addition to the committee letter, but I followed each school's policy/limits. So far at least one school didn't despise my sending additional letters, so I can only hope that other schools wont either...

How does your UG committee get the information to write the letter?

We have a meeting before applying and then later give them all the information we put into AMCAS. I don't think it's a great system, I would much rather they just collect letters, but unfortunately its what I have. And its a top UG that sends many students to medical school, so I'm hoping that they know what they're doing.

 

[Goro]

My understanding is that committee letters typically or at least sometimes "rank" applicants from that school or place them in tiers.

In such a scenario, how is it possible that at least some candidates aren't harmed? Being placed in a low tier vis-à-vis other applicants from the same school can only hurt, not help.

I understand that med school ad coms will at least implicitly rank candidates from the same school in any given cycle but I'd prefer that they rank rather than outsourcing the ranking to a third party.

There are premeds at my undergrad who made it a point to really network with the premed office. I never did that and I don't think that speaks to my potential as a doctor.

You are correct; these ranking typically go something like:

1) Recommend with highest regards
2) Recommend enthusiastically
3) Strongly recommend
4) Recommend
5) Recommend with reservations

They are not harmed because like in Lake Woebegone, everybody is above average, and so the candidates always get either of the top two rankings.

Occasionally we'll see the middle ranking (ie #3) and RARELY will someone get bad ranking (like #4 on my list).

To my recollection, I have only seen 1 or 2 candidates NOT recommended (#5) by their pre-med committee.

 

[gyngyn]

This now feels like a stupid move, but yes... For example, from my research PI and coach. I understand that they won't necessarily be read, but if they are, I think they are enthusiastic and provide a better picture of me as an applicant and person. My UG pre-health department recommends sending them in addition to the committee letter, but I followed each school's policy/limits. So far at least one school didn't despise my sending additional letters, so I can only hope that other schools wont either...

If you send them, we have to read the darn things...

 

[Jeremy Bearimy]

If you send them, we have to read the darn things...

I apologize, I was under the impression that once a file meets the minimum requirements, the committee is not obligated to read anything additional.

 

[gyngyn]

I apologize, I was under the impression that once a file meets the minimum requirements, the committee does not need to read anything additional.

This also why we really don't want links to a recital or your drum solo or your hip hop routine.
Once they are part of the record, we cannot make a decision without a complete review. Some smarty pants on the committee will have found something pertinent in the one thing we overlooked as superfluous...

 

[MyOdyssey]

This also why we really don't want links to a recital or your drum solo or your hip hop routine.

You prefer those to be performed live at the interview. Of course and duly noted. I'll add those rehearsals to my bucketlist ...

 

[gyngyn]

You prefer those to be performed live at the interview. Of course and duly noted. I'll add those rehearsals to my bucketlist ...

We did have a candidate do much of his interview in pantomime!

 

[907914]

We did have a candidate do much of his interview in pantomime!

How did that turn out?

 

[Cornfed101]

We did have a candidate do much of his interview in pantomime!

Was this candidate successful?

 

[Cornfed101]

How did that turn out?

ah, beat me by a second

 

[gyngyn]

Was this candidate successful?

Yes...at Vanderbilt.

 

[MyOdyssey]

We did have a candidate do much of his interview in pantomime!

Was the pantomime intended or was the candidate so flabbergasted that s/he literally couldn't vocalize?

 

[AMCASTuesdays]

Hi everyone,

Anybody here, who is getting a committee letter, worry about it? Like, maybe you don't know everyone on the committee, or that one prof whose class you didn't do well in is on the committee, and you're afraid their recommendation will be lukewarm and it'll hurt your application? I also have a fear that while my LOR writers are people who know me well/ like me/have good things to say about me, that they may write lukewarm letters or mention "that-one-time-I-messed-up" or something.
Anybody have this fear? My profs seem to like me and I don't think they would do that, but I just...idk. It's one of those things that's mentioned when someone doesn't' get any acceptances/II's and it's like, you can't know beforehand.
I'm not losing sleep over or anything, just something that's floating in my mind.

-mwsapphire

My PH committee advisor makes it a policy to let applicants know if the committee is going to write them a bad letter (he won't tell us whats in the letter but he'll give you a heads up if its bad so you can either opt out, or try again next year).

Part of why they're there is to insure your packet reflects you as a student...see if you can take advantage of the fact that your PH advisor can see what's in the letter and you can't. Couldn't hurt.

 

[mmchick]

You sent letters in addition to your committee letter?

I'm assuming this shock is only reactionary to additional letters on top of a committee packet (which attaches the original recommenders' letters), no? My committee letter is just a single letter authored by a committee advisor who takes a look over submitted LORs and my application into the process and compiles information from that... so schools would have only received that one interpretation letter. Figured it would be helpful (if the school permitted multiple letters) to include actual anecdotes from the professor, PI, mentor, etc. but perhaps this was wrong..

It's very hard to tell sometimes based off of the language on schools' websites that mention wanting committee letters, but then also letters from professors specifically or PIs etc. when those aren't a part of the original committee letter I'm supposed to be singularly submitting. The whole criteria is a bit vague for many of the schools imo, I hope that my best interpretation of this isn't harmful.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm assuming this shock is only reactionary to additional letters on top of a committee packet (which attaches the original recommenders' letters), no? My committee letter is just a single letter authored by a committee advisor who takes a look over submitted LORs and my application into the process and compiles information from that... so schools would have only received that one interpretation letter. Figured it would be helpful (if the school permitted multiple letters) to include actual anecdotes from the professor, PI, mentor, etc. but perhaps this was wrong..

It's very hard to tell sometimes based off of the language on schools' websites that mention wanting committee letters, but then also letters from professors specifically or PIs etc. when those aren't a part of the original committee letter I'm supposed to be singularly submitting. The whole criteria is a bit vague for many of the schools imo, I hope that my best interpretation of this isn't harmful.

A packet or letter put together according to the requirements of your undergrad fulfills (and does not exceed) the requirements for letters (just about everywhere). Specific requirements for the number and type of letter are for those who lack a school-sponsored letter packet or summary.

 

[gyngyn]

Was the pantomime intended or was the candidate so flabbergasted that s/he literally couldn't vocalize?

He did it to show his communication skills, apparently.
He later burst into song.

 

[mwsapphire]

I'm not worried that my committee letter will be outright bad, just lukewarm. My UG school's system is weird. It's not a composite letter or letter packet, just written by the committee who doesn't know much about me personally, so I don't know what they could possibly rave about. On the other hand, my individual letters are much more personal and strong, but some schools don't want any/many additional letters if you have a committee letter.

Just praying that some adcom has a little extra time on their hands (lol) and decides to read my additional letters.

I beleive the committee puts all your indivual letter together-thats what mine does. You foreard all your letters to the committee and they use then to put together your committee letter.

 

[993444]

Don't take drugs that aren't your own/don't share drugs. That is felony drug trafficking. Only Goro can Xanax.

You must be super fun at parties....

 

[993444]

Committee letters are not known for harming their candidates.

What are the most common 'triggers' that earns someone a bad letter?

 

[907914]

You must be super fun at parties....

I don't and have never done "parties".....Can't be fun at something I have never been to!

Mostly was just letting them know that @Goro is the Xanax dealer round these parts. That's his turf.