Anyone else get cheesed off when doctors ask "you really wanna do this? I wouldn't do it again"

[Dr. Stalker]

if you are that easily disheartened i honestly dont think ur going to make it. good luck.

would i do it again. nope.

do i know how do do anything else better after being on this one track for 10 years? no.

so what do i do? stick it out.

But, on a serious note, I do think that having gotten to hear all the negativity about the field was a good thing, it was unfiltered and candid advice from practicing physicians. Perhaps I'll end up as disappointed in the field, but I still can't picture myself pursuing any other career!

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[mcloaf]

"I wouldn't do medicine all over again." Says the doctor who spent all day saving lives before driving home in a Porsche lol

I agree. It is disheartening.

Do you actually think most doctors feel like they spend a majority of their time at work saving lives?

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Do you actually think most doctors feel like they spend a majority of their time at work saving lives?

A doctor can only do so much; it ultimately comes down to the patient, if he/she isn't willing to follow the instructions of the physician, and the doctor put in 110% saying what needs to be done, it isn't the docs fault. A doctor can't "force" a patient to do anything.

 

[mcloaf]

A doctor can only do so much; it ultimately comes down to the patient, if he/she isn't willing to follow the instructions of the physician, and the doctor put in 110% saying what needs to be done, it isn't the docs fault. A doctor can't "force" a patient to do anything.

Sure, to some extent. There's a lot more nuance involved in the patient-physician relationship than just telling people what do to, but that's a different conversation. The post I was quoting is laughably naive.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Do you actually think most doctors feel like they spend a majority of their time at work saving lives?

Yeah, there's actually a lot less life saving than what TV shows. Of course it's hard to tell what actually constitutes "saying a life." Removing a tumor? Catching hypertension? Lots of things might fall under that. It seems the only really definite one, where you know you've saved a life, is bringing someone back after they code or hemorrhage and seeing them through to discharge

 

[miniman]

I personally get pretty cheddar. That or mozzarella Idk. Really either one.

 

[Velour Fog]

I say this every chance I get to every medical student I'm on service with

 

[787593]

Do you actually think most doctors feel like they spend a majority of their time at work saving lives?

No, but it's better than working at UPS!

 

[Toutie]

I personally get pretty cheddar. That or mozzarella Idk. Really either one.

I dunno...it makes me pretty blue.

 

[miniman]

I dunno...it makes me pretty blue.

You win... that just got Brie laughing out loud.

 

[USCguy]

I think the best advice I can give is to accept what these attending say at face value; and if given the chance inquire what specifically makes them feel that way. You may find a pattern emerging that can help you. Do doctors love to complain, you bet. I'm one of the most happy and content physicians I know and I have bad days sometimes and need to vent. The ones that are miserable enough to contemplate quitting probably chose the wrong field for the wrong reason or the wrong practice set up, environment, location, etc. often times these choices are made in an attempt to chase money, prestige, big house, acceptance and admiration of friends and family, etc etc.

You will make plenty of money in medicine no matter what field you choose to enter, you will be able to pay back your loans, and if you make your choices for the right reasons, you can be extremely happy and fulfilled.

I don't think you should be discouraged from going into medicine; maybe just don't go into the situation the miserable doctor is in.

 

[FlowRate]

Jealous on the prior career! I've been in engineering most of my career but have been informed that lab techs in the northeast make more than I did as a professional engineer. I should add that I am definitely not making the career change for money. I've been paying taxes too long to know exactly how much gets taken before I'll even see it. But I can see how that decision would be much harder for someone who is making a lot.

And I've heard, and this absolutely cannot be confirmed, that there are thoughts of having PAs do residencies in the future. It kind of makes sense, but I imagine there may be some blow back on it.

Either lab techs make WAY more than I thought or you somehow managed to make less than 60k as an engineer?

 

[DBC03]

Either lab techs make WAY more than I thought or you somehow managed to make less than 60k as an engineer?

BINGO. Engineering salaries in FL are not all that great.

It was a lot worse during the recession. Take a salary that's lower than your tech's salary and take off a good 20% for 5 years. Then take 50% off for nearly one full year. The recession was really fun here, let me tell you.

 

[UBLI-EINSTEIN]

You should know that most humans get used to thinking another hell is a paradise. Just understand them and let it go.

 

[bahdahboom]

Having shadowed many physicians and gotten to just hang out with residents/attendings, any other premeds get irritated when doctors ask you things like "oh why do you want to do this? This stinks!", "I wouldn't do this again if I could, too much work for too little pay", or the classic "If i could do it all over again, I wouldn't"

I think its just bad advice to give to impressionable young adults who are clearly very interested in the profession; in a humorous setting its fine, but to have doctors openly announce they dislike their job and aren't passionate and wouldn't do this all over again is just disheartening...to me, at least.

I will say that quote is accurate, they probably wouldn't want to do it again. Shoot, I just finished first yr. I'm happy I did it but i don't want to do it again.

 

[agingscientist]

I had a resident tell me that medical school was the worst 4 years of his life, but now that he's actually doing what he loves, he has no regrets. No one expects medical school to be a walk in the park, so what he had to say wasn't too surprising.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

I had a resident tell me that medical school was the worst 4 years of his life, but now that he's actually doing what he loves, he has no regrets. No one expects medical school to be a walk in the park, so what he had to say wasn't too surprising.

Nice that's more of an honest/slightly better answer. Not outright discouraging. Is it just that some people, particularly older attendings, that didn't anticipate medical school + residency + fellowship + attending would be so miserable? It seems now that pre-meds have to do a lot more to get admitted, far more competitive MCAT+GPA, diverse ECs, shadowing, research, so pre-med itself sucks. Most attendings I know graduated medical school way back in the early 80s, so perhaps it was easier to get into med school, and thus they didn't know how rough it would get...?

 

[Lannister]

Best reply I got after telling a doctor I'm a med student: "Do radiology. You'll make lots of money. That's all that matters."

 

[Lannister]

I will say that quote is accurate, they probably wouldn't want to do it again. Shoot, I just finished first yr. I'm happy I did it but i don't want to do it again.

Exactly. I love med school, but man, if you gave me the choice between repeating 1st year and dropping out...that would not be an easy decision.

 

[cj1143]

One of my bosses on my FIRST day at work went "please tell me you're not premed" and insisted I do not go into it. Sorry, too late!! l o l, but later she admitted to honestly loving her job, just wouldnt wish it upon anyone else (peds ICU, not the happiest stuff). Oh well, here I am.

 

[Pepe18]

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[Dr. Stalker]

You MUST be able to see how biased you are being. You think this answer is better because it supports the opinion you already have.

You're assuming they didn't know what they were getting into rather considering that they may have legitimately been worn down or have legitimate dislike for what current medicine is like. Instead of trying to rationalize why they are unhappy, ask. Ask why the career didn't meet their expectations.

Excessive discouragement isn't helpful, I agree. But you have premed blinders on where anything that doesn't validate your opinion is wrong and discouraging. That isn't a good way to approach decision making. It's important to get a diverse range of perspectives

Duh, of course I'm gonna say stuff that supports my opinion. I don't mind you "calling me out" on it either.

I have asked the docs I got to work with things such as why it is the "worst career" and "why you wouldn't do it again" and of the very few I've worked with (n = 6), the bulk told me they, in fact, did not, have the slightest idea as to how brutal residency would be, and then, when they saw attendings in the 1980s having a relatively chill lifestyle, they looked forward to that. Fast forward to all the incredible biomedical achievements in the late 80s and early 90s when these residents who worked like hell are attendings, and because of the advancement of technology, they're still working like dogs, and that's why they're so bitter. I mean, hell, who wouldn't feel that way?

 

[863168]

@Dr. Stalker Why do you want to pursue medicine?

 

[Dr. Stalker]

@Dr. Stalker Why do you want to pursue medicine?

Self sacrifice and help sick people. Offer care to those who can't otherwise get it. I'm from a 3rd world country where people literally die because we don't have vaccines, meds, or healthcare that isn't either a) corrupt b) affordable. I figure I can at least try to make a difference. You could tell me docs make <$30k/year and I'd still be going for this career.

 

[Pepe18]

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[Dr. Stalker]

No one knows how brutal residency is until you do it though...so I don't think that is an adequate explanation. I have some idea, but you don't really know how you will handle it until you are there. 1/4 (or 1/5, I can't remember) of gen surg residents leave their programs, which suggests that even people who have gone all through medical school don't have a full grasp of what residency will be like. Advanced tech is also not the reason attendings are working like dogs....

And by biased, I mean that you see any negative opinion of medicine as being wrong or that that physician has something that made them more naive than you when they started, but then you fully embrace every positive experience as correct and representative of what it will be like to be a physician.

I never said that I see any negative opinion of medicine as being wrong. Rather, I said I (personally) think its wrong to completely discourage an excited pre-medical student. Those two statements are similar, but totally different. In fact, I do my best to be unbiased BY listening to both the pros and the cons of the attendings I've worked with. By focusing a thread on the negative comments, I was hoping to elucidate why doctors routinely say such statements that disappoint those excited pre-meds that hope to be like them one day. Ya feel me?

 

[Pepe18]

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[Dr. Stalker]

I don't think there's a point in me discussing this further, so this is the last I will say. When a premed comes to shadow, a physician will normally offer their opinions of the career. You shadow to learn the positives and negatives. If someone says that they would not choose this career over, you should listen to why and then decide whether or not those negatives discourage you. The whole purpose of shadowing is to give you exposure, not to pump you up and give you a marshmallow view of medicine. There is no point in shadowing if you only get the filtered happy view. Everyone loves their jobs in the happy moments. Some happy physicians gave me happy opinions, some unhappy gave me unhappy opinions. They aren't trying to make me feel bad. They want to make me aware of what it means to be a physician.

Clearly you're missing my point here friend. I never said I wanted a flowery unrealistic view of medicine. Instead, I'm saying I don't think its appropriate to dismiss a student over their own hardship. To tell a student "hey this career is rough - its gonna become your life - you up for it?" is one thing, but if doctors tell me "I hate my life and this job and wish all doctors were dead because its that awful" it doesn't pave the way for me to inquire "why is it so bad" Clearly the doc is irritated and perhaps burned out, but, if they willingly take on a pre-medical student to shadow, they should be prepared to give more professional and realistic responses. The surgery residency statistic you pointed out is spot on. Believe it or not, I do certainly appreciate and think about the statements you've brought up, because they're true. I just still don't think its appropriate to say those kinds of things and discourage someone from doing this. And ultimately, I don't think they're fully true, but rather, very embellished. If a physician is so disoriented with the career to the point they hate it, why not just leave it? You can argue he/she has a family, needs money, there's other opportunities and jobs in and outside of medicine someone can go into.

 

[P0ke]

Having shadowed many physicians and gotten to just hang out with residents/attendings, any other premeds get irritated when doctors ask you things like "oh why do you want to do this? This stinks!", "I wouldn't do this again if I could, too much work for too little pay", or the classic "If i could do it all over again, I wouldn't"

I think its just bad advice to give to impressionable young adults who are clearly very interested in the profession; in a humorous setting its fine, but to have doctors openly announce they dislike their job and aren't passionate and wouldn't do this all over again is just disheartening...to me, at least.

A lot of them probably couldn't do it all over again if they had the chance. The average matriculant MCAT 20 years ago was 28-29 and GPA 3.5-3.6. Even lower if they went to med school before that. A lot of the doctors sitting as adcoms today couldn't even get in to med school by today's standards that they themselves establish.

 

[Raryn]

A lot of them probably couldn't do it all over again if they had the chance. The average matriculant MCAT 20 years ago was 28-29 and GPA 3.5-3.6. Even lower if they went to med school before that. A lot of the doctors sitting as adcoms today couldn't even get in to med school by today's standards that they themselves establish.

It's almost impossible to compare though.

Grade inflation is a thing. As is the fact that there are a hell of a lot more resources available for MCAT study now than there were 20 years ago. People used to read through a book for a few weeks or maybe take a course if they were super motivated, but the tailored resources that you can get on every street corner now just weren't available.

Hell, the "competitiveness" is completely cyclical, and while we're currently on an upswing the last few years, we're (probably) not even at the peak of a cycle right now. Explicitly looking at 20 years ago (which *was* coincidentally the peak of a cycle), the number of applicants in 2016 (53,042) is barely more than the number of applicants in 1996 (46,965)... while the number of seats they're competing for has gone from <17,000 to >21,000. It's hard to objectively say that the competition is greater now when there's actually fewer applicants per each matriculant. It's certainly *different*, but not greater.

I know pre-allo likes to post about how every school every year states that it is the most competitive cycle EVAR, but it simply isn't true.

 

[863168]

Self sacrifice and help sick people. Offer care to those who can't otherwise get it. I'm from a 3rd world country where people literally die because we don't have vaccines, meds, or healthcare that isn't either a) corrupt b) affordable. I figure I can at least try to make a difference. You could tell me docs make <$30k/year and I'd still be going for this career.

Why do you want to become a physician? Becoming a physician requires you to commit time and energy. You could be spending that time running a start-up non-profit for people who don't have vaccines, meds, and healthcare rather than siphoning off those funds to take a fourth MCAT. Are you going to be one of those prospective premedical students who already knows they are going to join Médecins Sans Frontières the moment they finish their residency?

When a physician asks you for your motivation, they are making an evaluation to determine what makes you tick, what wakes you up in the morning, and if there is an ounce of uniqueness that makes medicine an appealing choice for you. The lack of depth in the response you gave me including the arbitrary $30,000 leads me to believe that the reason they are dissuading you from pursuing the profession is not because they don't believe in it, it's because based on your signaling they are dissuading you from entering it with a type of naivé idealism.