Pretty much what the title says -- I'm planning on applying CP-only, but there's very little CP exposure at my school other than a quick lab tour during our path elective, and my interest developed too late to set up a longer CP-only elective. I have two pathology letters, but they're from faculty who practice AP. I had a meeting with a clinical pathologist where we talked about my interest in CP, but he wasn't willing to write me a recommendation since we haven't worked together. Basically I want to know how aggressively I should pursue a letter from a clinical pathologist at this point, or if my two pathology letters from AP folks will likely suffice.
Applying CP-only; how important is getting a letter from a clinical pathologist?
- Thread starter Dro133
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2011
- Messages
- 9
- Reaction score
- 4
I don't think you need a letter from a CP pathologist. I do think you need to be able to articulate your interest in CP well (particularly given your limited exposure to the field...how is it you know you want to do CP?), including what sub-specialty you might interested in (most CP pathologists are sub-specialized, those that aren't typically do chemistry or 80+% research). Otherwise, what will matter is the usual stuff - how you have done on steps, your performance in clinicals, how strong your letters are, etc...
Thanks for the info!
My interest in CP stems from my interest in informatics, data science and population health. I've had an interest in pathology throughout med school, but became interested specifically in CP after reading these articles about the potential role of clinical pathologists in being drivers of improving the healthcare system. I've tried to articulate this in my PS, but I hope programs don't balk at my lack of interest in "traditional" CP sub-specialties.
Improving American Healthcare Through "Clinical Lab 2.0"
Skills in Data Science and Analytics: The Next Frontier for the Medical Laboratory Scientist?
The Role of the Pathologist in Population Health
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2002
- Messages
- 1,950
- Reaction score
- 53
Strategy wise and interview wise; you should always remember that you are interviewing for a CP residency. People care about your specific interests of course; but they also want to hear that you are interested in CP in general.
I don’t think you should pinpoint or emphasize your interests too much. Definitely mention them and keep them for the conversation regarding why you are more interested in CP only versus the traditional AP/CP route. Always make sure you show a healthy interest in the CP specialties. Remember that your interviewers are likely practicing CP (and AP) attendings.
I actually think getting letters from AP people would be fine too; if they are aware of your CP interests.
Good luck to you!
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2004
- Messages
- 7,132
- Reaction score
- 1,250
I would strongly advise no one, ever, under almost any normal circumstance to do CP only.
The situation where CP only is applicable:
1.) congenital blindness
2.) traumatic enucleation from the war in Afganistan/Iraq/Syria
3.) dismemberment/disability leaving you unable to use your arms, both of them.
4.) not sure..
so the list is quite small. And my condolences if no. 1-3 apply to your situation.
The situation where CP only is applicable:
1.) congenital blindness
2.) traumatic enucleation from the war in Afganistan/Iraq/Syria
3.) dismemberment/disability leaving you unable to use your arms, both of them.
4.) not sure..
so the list is quite small. And my condolences if no. 1-3 apply to your situation.
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2015
- Messages
- 196
- Reaction score
- 197
I wouldn't include 3. You could hire a high school student to operate the scope.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2010
- Messages
- 2,130
- Reaction score
- 1,032
Did Beck Weathers continue to practice pathology after his Everest adventure? His hands are pretty messed up.
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2004
- Messages
- 7,132
- Reaction score
- 1,250
funny you say that, I had a guy working with me who was his personal friend. Told me a ton of stories of him.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
- Messages
- 530
- Reaction score
- 527
I would never advise anyone to do a CP only career unless:
- You’re really looking forward to an academic career and you know full well what all that entails. Just FYI, CP only pathologists are treated as third class citizens (if that’s even possible) in most pathology academic departments.
- You want a blood banking career - the best option in the CP realm.
- You’re considering a hematology/hemepath only career (primarily limited to academia), but you won’t be competitive with any AP/CP applicants for fellowship spots.
- You have absolutely no idea what you’re doing.
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2006
- Messages
- 2,801
- Reaction score
- 1,186
A few thoughts from someone who initially applied CP only before switching to AP/CP...
1. CP training does not give you any unique skill sets that set you up for a clinical practice. Almost every skill you master can be acquired in other ways. For example, virtually any specialty can do a blood bank fellowship, PhDs can do fellowships in chemistry and micro, and informatics can be done by anyone and currently you can be grandfathered without a fellowship for board certification with experience.
2. I don't believe CP training or path in general gives you insights that translate to expertise in informatics, except maybe exposure in some departments. I do believe this is an important field that will grow and there is demand.
3. The advantage of CP is that it is 3 years of training with only 18 months of real training. This is ideal for MD/PhDs who just want to do research and have some minimal clinical responsibility.
4. If you want to do Heme you are also at a disadvantage IMHO because of a lack of AP.
If you want to do informatics, investigate all the ways you can get there, and if CP is your best option, go for it. It will be somewhat of a gamble as this is a relatively new field and you may be limited to academia and low(er) pay.
1. CP training does not give you any unique skill sets that set you up for a clinical practice. Almost every skill you master can be acquired in other ways. For example, virtually any specialty can do a blood bank fellowship, PhDs can do fellowships in chemistry and micro, and informatics can be done by anyone and currently you can be grandfathered without a fellowship for board certification with experience.
2. I don't believe CP training or path in general gives you insights that translate to expertise in informatics, except maybe exposure in some departments. I do believe this is an important field that will grow and there is demand.
3. The advantage of CP is that it is 3 years of training with only 18 months of real training. This is ideal for MD/PhDs who just want to do research and have some minimal clinical responsibility.
4. If you want to do Heme you are also at a disadvantage IMHO because of a lack of AP.
If you want to do informatics, investigate all the ways you can get there, and if CP is your best option, go for it. It will be somewhat of a gamble as this is a relatively new field and you may be limited to academia and low(er) pay.
I appreciate the reply!
I'm definitely interested in an academic and/or industry career, not so much private practice, and have come to terms with what that means salary-wise. I'm definitely set on pathology, and my decision to apply CP-only is informed by my desire to have a research-heavy residency and a shorter training pathway, as I have other training interests (informatics, public health) that I want to seek out, in addition to maybe a more traditional CP fellowship as well. That being said, I do take heed to the warnings given here, and will definitely consider them. Did you switch into AP/CP before starting residency or during?
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2006
- Messages
- 2,801
- Reaction score
- 1,186
If you have no interest in cancer diagnostics then AP is of no use for you, IMHO.
D
deleted642280
Actually, if your informatics interest includes developing AI tech for telepathology, AP would be really useful
Thanks for the reply! Developing AI tech for AP is actually what my current research focus is, but I want to get more into population health research eventually, which is why I decided to apply CP only. I'm not sure I want to completely give up the image analysis work though, so I'm still open to AP/CP for now...
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2012
- Messages
- 584
- Reaction score
- 179
I've thought about this quite a bit myself. Being trained in AP would help with annotation of data sets, but is that actually what you want to spend your time doing?
I definitely don't want to spend my time annotating datasets, but I'd imagine having the AP background would be helpful for a) knowing which problems in digital pathology are available to tackle with AI, and b) understanding how to fit AI into the AP workflow and appraise its value to clinical care.
I suppose one could still be involved in hemepath image analysis as CP-only, but that seems pretty limiting.
